Has Scott Gordon done enough to be retained at the Flyers Head Coach for the 2019-2020 Season?

[vis]

5 hours ago, King Knut said:

You keep saying it needed to to be addressed, but there are no realistic suggestions on what that would look like.

Buy out Neuvirth and sign any reasonably healthy goalie such as Bernier or Halak.  Or even Carter Hutton.  He had plenty of cap room this year and next to make that happen.  Or, try to source a trade.

[Podein25]

8 minutes ago, vis said:

Or even Carter Hutton.

 

TWO goalies named "Carter"?! 

 

If Hart's nickname is "Hartsy" would Hutton's be "Hutsy"

 

 

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, vis said:

Buy out Neuvirth and sign any reasonably healthy goalie such as Bernier or Halak.  Or even Carter Hutton.  He had plenty of cap room this year and next to make that happen.  Or, try to source a trade.

 

Cant buy out an injured player (without his permission). 

 

Elliott has played about as many games and been much better than Bernier this season... even before Gordon took over he was doing better.  

 

The other her two would have been decent options (even Hutton, a career backup)  if he could have vacated Neuvy or Elliott by 6/30,  but he was not permitted to move them on his own. 

 

His only real shot to vacate one of their roster spots would have been to find a trade for one of the goalies... which could not have been an easy thing to accomplish with both recovering from surgery. 

 

I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just trying to point out that it really wasn’t as simple as we like to think. 

 

Just like the the reasons why he ended up with Neuvy and Elliott on two year deals to begin with aren’t simple, but that doesn’t stop people here from complaining like something else should have obviously happened either. 

 

Its Really easy in hindsight to just want to say Hextall sucked and to blame so much on him, that is the Philly Way afterall 

 

But Hextall was actually pretty smart about almost everything. That’s why it blows my damn mind how he was so inexplicably and colossally stupid about that one particular and very obvious thing that really kept the team from actually progressing while he was here.  

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

TWO goalies named "Carter"?! 

 

If Hart's nickname is "Hartsy" would Hutton's be "Hutsy"

 

 

 

I thought Hartnell was Hartsy?  They can’t bequeath a nickname can they?

[Podein25]

49 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I thought Hartnell was Hartsy?  They can’t bequeath a nickname can they?

 

I think more than one person can have that nickname. Just like more than one person can be called an idiot, or a ****. Not you, of course, but in general.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

I think more than one person can have that nickname. Just like more than one person can be called an idiot, or a ****. Not you, of course, but in general.

 

So you’re calling Hart and Hartnell idiots or ****s?

[ruxpin]

5 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

TWO goalies named "Carter"?! 

 

If Hart's nickname is "Hartsy" would Hutton's be "Hutsy"

 

 

He's a Flyer. 

 

Call him "Puck Hutton."   (for this to make sense, you have to keep in mind that alot of Pennsylvania pronounces "hunting" and "huttin" or "Hutton.") 

[Podein25]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Call him "Puck Hutton." 

 

Inspired. This is why they pay you the big bucks rux.

[vis]

On 3/8/2019 at 6:39 PM, King Knut said:

Cant buy out an injured player (without his permission). 

That's something I did not know and changes the calculus.  If I am Hextall, I would have investigated that with Neuvirth.  Maybe he did and Neuvirth wouldn't give permission, which would be understandable.  And lets Hextall off the hook from a buyout perspective.  If Hextall didn't investigate, that would be an issue for me.

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, vis said:

...calculus

 

This Advanced stats stuff has gone too damn far if you need to calculate the derivative of JVR's capacity to play a 200' game when he decides to care.

[vis]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

the derivative of JVR's capacity to play a 200' game when he decides to care.

Trick question.  The answer is zero because he has no capacity to play a 200' game nor does he care.

[Podein25]

27 minutes ago, vis said:

Trick question.  The answer is zero because he has no capacity to play a 200' game nor does he care.

 

Winner winner, chicken dinner!

[pilldoc]

BUMP .....

 

I edited the title .....

 

time for some serious discussion here ..... the title says it all....

 

Has Scott Gordon done enough to be retained at the Flyers Head Coach for the 2019-2020 Season?

 

I added a new poll.

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, pilldoc said:

Has Scott Gordon done enough to be retained at the Flyers Head Coach for the 2019-2020 Season?

 

I went with no.  I think he's done well considering.  

 

But I just want to gut the whole staff and bring in a fresh, new, outside perspective.  I don't really want Gordon to lose his job altogether, but I know some here would advocate for new straight up and down the organization.  I wouldn't be opposed, but keeping in mind the guy is human I'd feel a little bad that he came up as a favor and ends up losing his employment.

 

But at least on the NHL level I want to beat the hell out of the "Restart" button.

[pilldoc]

7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I went with no.  I think he's done well considering. 

 

I went with No also..... I don't think Gordon is horrible and is probably a stand up kind of guy.  Like you, I just want a clean slate and start fresh.  I want a coach with no preconceived ideas or notions.  To do that, they MUST go outside the organization and bring in a qualified coach with NHL experience preferred.

[Poulin20]

16 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I went with no.  I think he's done well considering.  

 

But I just want to gut the whole staff and bring in a fresh, new, outside perspective.  I don't really want Gordon to lose his job altogether, but I know some here would advocate for new straight up and down the organization.  I wouldn't be opposed, but keeping in mind the guy is human I'd feel a little bad that he came up as a favor and ends up losing his employment.

 

But at least on the NHL level I want to beat the hell out of the "Restart" button.

+1

I couldn’t have said it better myself.  I hope this performance has generated some interest for  Gordon to get a head coaching position on another NHL team.  If not I would welcome him back to the Phantoms if he would be willing to retake the post.

[mojo1917]

I said yes, because in my mind he was effective, he changed the way the team played mid-season. The team did respond to him. There was zero margin for error for this group to make the playoffs when he got the tap. 

I do think Gordon became a better coach when Carter Hart arrived. 

Ultimately I think he has done enough to warrant a crack at coaching in the NHL. 

I would hope the Flyers do him a solid and offer to continue to employ him in some capacity or release him to pursue his coaching interests elsewhere in the league. He walked into a no-win situation and was a big part of having the team play meaningful hockey into March in spite of being dead last in January. 

 

Now do I want him to be the coach next year ?

No.

I want someone without this loser stink on him, I want a fresh start with an entirely new staff at the NHL level.

There are talented players on this roster with the right additions, this team could be fun to watch.  They were pretty fun from mid-January until last week, when I think they just ran out of gas. 

I think a new and effective voice could herald an "Islanders" type turn around. 

 

[flyer4ever]

Doesn't matter who the coach is with the roster as it is and the prospects coming. The Flyers are a one dimensional team that cannot compete in the playoffs. They are soft, mentally and physically. Thats the first thing that has to change. In a big way.

[mojo1917]

@flyer4ever

 

you don't think a coach holding players accountable can help with your diagnosis?

 

When I look at the limited talent on that Islanders roster and the success they've had after losing their best player for nothing, I don't see why the right voices behind the bench wouldn't be even more successful here.   Their improvement can 100% be traced to Barry Trotz.

 

Not that these guys are available but you think Babcock, Cooper, or Trotz couldn't/wouldn't win with this group ?

Don't those guys demand a certain level of responsibility?

 

I don't share your pessimistic outlook, but do think the new guys do need another strong veteran voice (with a strong playing resume') to go with a new coaching staff.

 

 

 

[ruxpin]

7 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@flyer4ever

 

you don't think a coach holding players accountable can help with your diagnosis?

 

When I look at the limited talent on that Islanders roster and the success they've had after losing their best player for nothing, I don't see why the right voices behind the bench wouldn't be even more successful here.   Their improvement can 100% be traced to Barry Trotz.

 

Not that these guys are available but you think Babcock, Cooper, or Trotz couldn't/wouldn't win with this group ?

Don't those guys demand a certain level of responsibility?

 

I don't share your pessimistic outlook, but do think the new guys do need another strong veteran voice (with a strong playing resume') to go with a new coaching staff.

 

 

 

 

I don't share the pessimism at all.  

 

I know we lost the last game and for some reason want to negatively compare the Flyers to the Islanders, but the Flyers handily beat them twice quite recently while the Isles were battling for first place. If I remember correctly, the Flyers actually knocked them out of first place (grand scheme, that's an exaggeration, but they lost to the Flyers the night the Caps won and took over first).

 

I have to repeat:  handily beat them.

 

And when you throw in "and the prospects" in such a thing, I'm sorry but that's typical Philly  "we just lost" stuff.  It's the Philly people who call in to The Fanatic screaming that Foles is better than Wentz largely because Foles played yesterday.

 

With the right coach, there is no way to soberly look at this situation and not think we're right at the door.

 

...Barring a Porsche and a wall.

[ruxpin]

12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

do think the new guys do need another strong veteran voice (with a strong playing resume') to go with a new coaching staff.

 

I think this is accurate.  And not a 3rd/4th liner.  It can be a top 4 defenseman.  If it's on the forward line, it has to be top two lines.

 

It doesn't have to be a new captain or anything like that, and not to throw shade at Giroux, but they don't seem to have the "doesn't matter, just DO it" voice.  Or if they do, they haven't had that locker room voice AND that coaching voice at the same time.   Not from the outside looking in, anyway.

 

We've all talked about the defenseman before.  I think it was @King Knut who asked, "who of what we're looking for actually exists anymore?"  (sorry if I'm mis-attributing or mis-quoting, King.  It's a paraphrase at best).   I don't know that he does exist.

 

But a vet that can at least calm things the hell down would be good.  MacDonald is a vet, but he manages to do whatever is the opposite of calming things down.   And I mean that in the on the ice sense, not the pep talk in the locker room sense (ideally, that TOO).  

 

I don't know how you do that without a cap boat anchor.  But I'd try really hard.

[OccamsRazor]

11 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 I don't know that he does exist.

 

The guy i truly want probably wants to stay where he is at, since he has pretty much his whole career.

 

And is already on a good team.

 

Mark Giordano.

 

So there has to be another option.

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

The guy i truly want probably wants to stay where he is at, since he has pretty much his whole career.

 

And is already on a good team.

 

Mark Giordano.

 

So there has to be another option.

 

LOL.  Yeah.

 

Get Monahan while you're shopping.  Maybe there's a coupon day or something.

[OccamsRazor]

19 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

LOL.  Yeah.

 

Get Monahan while you're shopping.  Maybe there's a coupon day or something.

 

Yeah were both dreaming. Time to wake up.

[FD19372]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

The guy i truly want probably wants to stay where he is at, since he has pretty much his whole career.

 

And is already on a good team.

 

Mark Giordano.

 

So there has to be another option.

Josi and Fiala....while we're all dreaming.