Jump to content
News Ticker
  • News Around the NHL

Ducks Hockey Forum Coyotes Hockey Forum Bruins Hockey Forum Sabres Hockey Forum Flames Hockey Forum Hurricanes Hockey Forum Blackhawks Hockey Forum Avalanche Hockey Forum Blue Jackets Hockey Forum Stars Hockey Forum Red Wings Jackets Hockey Forum Oilers Hockey Forum Panthers Hockey Forum Kings Hockey Forum Wild Hockey Forum Canadiens Hockey Forum Predators Hockey Forum Devils Hockey Forum Islanders Hockey Forum Rangers Hockey Forum Senators Hockey Forum Flyers Hockey Forum Penguins Hockey Forum Sharks Hockey Forum Blues Hockey Forum Lightning Hockey Forum Maple Leafs Hockey Forum Canucks Hockey Forum Golden Knights Hockey Forum Capitals Hockey Forum Jets Hockey Forum

Lunatic

Has Scott Gordon done enough to be retained at the Flyers Head Coach for the 2019-2020 Season?

Who should the next Coach of the Flyers be?  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. Who should the next Coach of the Flyers be?

  2. 2. Has Scott Gordon done enough to be retained as the Flyers Head Coach for the 2019-2020 Season?



Recommended Posts

I agree with BC16.... this team is still way too inconsistent.  For the first time in forever Hart was stealing games and they went on a run.  They still over played him to getting hurt. It is great that the young players are stepping up but it still sporadic at best.

 

im in the clean house camp 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

If you look at the team as a whole, they still get routinely outshot, they still get routinely outplayed by the opposition, the PP still stinks and the PK is still awful.

Fair points.  They have been winning on the strength of goaltending, of all things.  It's masked a lot of bad play.  I will say this: I think Patrick, Konecny, Lindblom and Sanheim have elevated themselves after Hakstol got fired.  Actually, Sanheim was probably trending up anyway.  So, I have to give Gordon credit for that.  Provorov and Ghost are still mired in the muck, though.  I also think they have been more exciting team to watch in general at times.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

And if they chose wrong there is no getting it back with this team if another year or two is wasted if Q comes in and stinks it up.

 

No matter what Giroux, JVR and Jake's prime is ticking away.

 

Well I’m not sure there’s

much Chance of him really stinking it up. He’s been pretty successful as a coach.  Even the bad teams he coached had decent records for the talent they had. 

 

That said, maybe they can cut a deal with them both.  Maybe Q’s in for a few years to try to tack on a few more cups,  maybe he’s the guy for three years at most before he hangs them up for good. Maybe he gets the last of G, Jake & JVR’s prime years and Gordon agreed to go back to develop Frosty, Farabee, Radcliffe, Strohme, Allison, etc and inherits that core when Coots and Ghost are pushing 30.  It would be an odd set up, but if they pay him well and he knows Q doesn’t want to stay for terribly long, he might consider it if he knows he’s setting himself up again. 

 

Thats fantasy talk though.  Never happens in the real world. 

 

Anyway, the other plus side is the organization usually somehow manages (until this year) to maintain a positive relationship with the guys it’s dismissed.  Until Hextall this year, I don’t think there was much more of an ignominious dismissal (at least from a coaching or management position)  than Terry Murray and he came back as an assistant to help a recently Promoted minor league coach, so who knows?!

 

THat might even include Holmgren himself come to think of it.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Claude Monet said:

I agree with BC16.... this team is still way too inconsistent.  For the first time in forever Hart was stealing games and they went on a run.  They still over played him to getting hurt. It is great that the young players are stepping up but it still sporadic at best.

 

im in the clean house camp 

 

You do know that Elliott and Stolarz’s numbers since Gordon took over have been similar or better than Hart’s, right?  

 

It ain’t just Hart.  Sure, they are inconsistent, but very few teams can play a full game strong. Right now this is a young team working under a Jerry-rigged new system implemented halfway through a crap year after 5 years under two different crap coaches who were both scared to death of a remotely aggressive offense.  

 

It’s really really easy to say it was all Hart. Addendum on the stories and the highlight reels, but the facts and numbers just don’t bear that out. 

 

Hart and Gordon came up about the exact same time and they both got mixed results until Gordon changes the system.  

 

This is is in fact a good team.  They give up chances because they take a few chances now and again, but when they do give them up, they’re not nearly as dangerous or as deadly as they were under Hakstol.  

 

I’m partial because I have believed in the talent on this team all along and have blamed Hakstol for a while now, but there’s a reason I felt that way and the numbers back it up now. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Gordon had an easy job to do taking over for Hak - play your good players more and play your bad players less, which is what he's done. If you look at the team as a whole, they still get routinely outshot, they still get routinely outplayed by the opposition, the PP still stinks and the PK is still awful. Gordon has also done the Hak thing by running a goalie into the ground until they're hurt (see Hart, Carter). Nope, I want a full on house cleaning with regards to the coaches and coaching staff in both Philadelphia and Lehigh Valley. As I mentioned in another thread, the Flyers desperately need full cohesion in that the coach in Lehigh Valley is using the same system and terminology as the coach in Philadelphia. That way, when players are called up, they know what to expect and can contribute right away.

 

I'm not sure how you say that, if results are the criteria.

Since the all-star break (the easiest point for me to section off) with roughly 15 games across the board for each team, the Flyers are 3rd in PP% and 6th in PK% percentage.    Is this the definition of "still awful?"  They are still giving up a crap ton of shots, though.  2nd most in the league over that same time period (37 shots against  per game).  Inexcusably, the Jets give up the most.

 

Not only do the Flyers give up a ton of shots, they are actually giving up MORE since the All-Star break than before.  They give up 37/g since and 30/g before.  Go figure.  As far as taking shots, they were 20th in the league before the break and 11th since, but the real numbers haven't changed in any appreciable way (33/g up from 30).

 

I think there's a valid argument, on PK, that the difference is the goalie(s).   But there have been some tweaks on the PP and there has been improvement.  

 

All that said, I'm good with the change you describe.  I actually agree it's more likely than not that we see a wholesale coaching staff change, but the special teams--at least in terms of success/failure--are better.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

It’s really really easy to say it was all Hart.

 

It was a lot that.  But arguably in a psychological way more than what is justified by numbers.

 

Though, I think the biggest impetus for improvement was Gordon AND Wilson.  Or at least the subtraction of Hakstol and Murphy.

 

It is quite possible that Hakstol was actually worse than Stevens.  The fact I'm even questioning it says more about my disdain for Stevens' job here than any over-estimation of what Hakstol did(n't) do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, vis said:

Fair points.  They have been winning on the strength of goaltending, of all things.  It's masked a lot of bad play.  I will say this: I think Patrick, Konecny, Lindblom and Sanheim have elevated themselves after Hakstol got fired.  Actually, Sanheim was probably trending up anyway.  So, I have to give Gordon credit for that.  Provorov and Ghost are still mired in the muck, though.  I also think they have been more exciting team to watch in general at times.  

 

I really just don’t agree with this. Just not buying it.  Why didn’t the goaltending mask a lot of bad play before Gordon changed the system?  

 

They've all trended up since Fordon took over because they have a much better idea of what to do.   In the case of many of them (especially Sanheim) they simply started getting more minutes in which to sort it out as well. Something many of us were complaining about for years with Hakstol.  Hextall would give him Sanheim and he simply wouldn’t play him. Or he’d bench TK or Ghost for... reasons. 

 

Ill agree that Ghost is sorting himself out a bit and frankly I think Gordon is still sorting out what to do with him. But Provo has improved dramatically since Gordon took over.  He’s like a different player. 

 

They're more exciting because they are simply better and they feel more free to play their game because I think they feel more confident that they know what they’re supposed to be doing now. 

 

I used to to say this all the time of anyone recalls or cares, but under Hakstol they just looked confused... like they literally couldn’t suss out how to play hockey. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Though, I think the biggest impetus for improvement was Gordon AND Wilson.  Or at least the subtraction of Hakstol and Murphy.

 

It is quite possible that Hakstol was actually worse than Stevens.  The fact I'm even questioning it says more about my disdain for Stevens' job here than any over-estimation of what Hakstol did(n't) do.

 

I agree. I forget about Wilson (or the removal of Murph). 

 

I had had no problem with Stevens.  I’m not sure why you hate him so much.  At least I certainly didn’t think the problem in 2009 was just on him. 

 

Laviolette however is a much better coach.   I still don’t know that the firing of Stevens was as much a comment on him being bad so much as a comment on how good Lavvy was and that he happened to be available. 

 

Of course Homer then fired him after three games after giving him a crap team for reasons Homer himself admitted didn’t really exist... so who the hell knows about all that. 

 

Curious though, what are your reasons for hating Stevens? He was kind of boring and didn’t have much fire or gravitas behind the bench then (seems to have more now that he’s gone gray and been probably emotionally scarred working for Sutter all those years). I thought his systems were pretty strong, especially considering how shallow his D was. 

Edited by King Knut

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I really just don’t agree with this. Just not buying it.  Why didn’t the goaltending mask a lot of bad play before Gordon changed the system?  

Because the goaltenders sucked.

 

The rest, I generally agree with.  Though I think Provorov still has had some ups and downs and I'm not sure Ghost is sorting things out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

They are still giving up a crap ton of shots, though.  2nd most in the league over that same time period (37 shots against  per game).  Inexcusably, the Jets give up the most.

 

Not only do the Flyers give up a ton of shots, they are actually giving up MORE since the All-Star break than before.  They give up 37/g since and 30/g before.  Go figure.  As far as taking shots, they were 20th in the league before the break and 11th since, but the real numbers haven't changed in any appreciable way (33/g up from 30).

 

I think there's a valid argument, on PK, that the difference is the goalie(s).   But there have been some tweaks on the PP and there has been improvement.  

 

All that said, I'm good with the change you describe.  I actually agree it's more likely than not that we see a wholesale coaching staff change, but the special teams--at least in terms of success/failure--are better.  

 

Giving up shots isn’t necessarily a problem.   I’m a pretty firm believer in this. It all depends on the quality of shots.  I know this from watching many years of Flyers teams out shoot the hell out of other teams, but only getting low % shots that most NHL goalies can save.  

 

Thats been the major difference IMHO. 

 

Elliott was seeing utterly brutal shots against him in the first half of the season.  Just completely wide open men, 2 on 1’s. 2 on nones.  It was ugly as hell.  I’m so thrilled that Hart didn’t come up sooner and have to deal with as much of that.  

 

Hart’s great at anticipating the play and knowing where to shift to stay square to the shooter, but as we’ve seen since Elliott is back (because moose is decidedly NOT a strictly square to the shooter type goalie)  they simply have more time to get square because the coverage is better in front of them. As we saw with Hart, most goals against were deflections. With Elliott and Talbot (granted limited sample) it seems to be rebounds which makes a ton of sense for Elliott.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, King Knut said:

 

Curious though, what are your reasons for hating Stevens? He was kind of boring and didn’t have much fire or gravitas behind the bench then (seems to have more now that he’s gone gray and been probably emotionally scarred working for Sutter all those years). I thought his systems were pretty strong, especially considering how shallow his D was. 

 

This isn't exactly an answer, but I simply couldn't stand him.  I thought his teams were too passive and not for any particular reason other than it reflected its coach.   

 

So, I was fully in the "Hitch Must Go!" camp.  Clarke, too.    My favorite Canadian golf pro loved me for it.  As excited as I was when that went down, I was fully "Noooooo!!!!" when Stevens got it.  As you say, he was given nothing to work with.  Or little, anyway.   I don't think he was let go just because Lavvy happened to be available, though I agree that was impetus behind the timing.   He just ultimately proved to not be a head coach. Understanding that he again didn't have a great team to work with, I think he proved that again in Los Angeles.

 

If I have an assistant coach opening, I'm calling John Stevens.  I think he's fairly decent with X's and O's and makes for a good special teams or defense coach.   For whatever reason, he's a better lieutenant than a captain. I have no idea what goes on in his "war room."  I don't know if he tries to do too much himself or if he's too passive to be head coach or what it is.   No idea.   But twice now, it just seems he's not suited for the head coach job.  

 

So, to amend my opening line:  It's not that I couldn't stand HIM.  He's well-spoken and seems like a decent man.  I just couldn't stand his being head coach.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, vis said:

Because the goaltenders sucked.

 

The rest, I generally agree with.  Though I think Provorov still has had some ups and downs and I'm not sure Ghost is sorting things out.

 

 But “the goaltenders” then we’re mostly Elliott and 5 minor leaguers and almost all of them were returning from injury... even so, still mostly Elliott. 

 

Now the same guy—who once again is returning from injury—is putting up numbers pretty close or better than the savior Hart (and frankly so was the oft injured mostly minor leaguer Stolarz before him). 

 

How does he suck before and not now?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, King Knut said:

 

Giving up shots isn’t necessarily a problem.   I’m a pretty firm believer in this. It all depends on the quality of shots.  I know this from watching many years of Flyers teams out shoot the hell out of other teams, but only getting low % shots that most NHL goalies can save.  

 

Thats been the major difference IMHO. 

 

Elliott was seeing utterly brutal shots against him in the first half of the season.  Just completely wide open men, 2 on 1’s. 2 on nones.  It was ugly as hell.  I’m so thrilled that Hart didn’t come up sooner and have to deal with as much of that.  

 

Hart’s great at anticipating the play and knowing where to shift to stay square to the shooter, but as we’ve seen since Elliott is back (because moose is decidedly NOT a strictly square to the shooter type goalie)  they simply have more time to get square because the coverage is better in front of them. As we saw with Hart, most goals against were deflections. With Elliott and Talbot (granted limited sample) it seems to be rebounds which makes a ton of sense for Elliott.  

 

This whole thing is dead on.  I completely agree about the shots.   Not only is the coverage better, but they are more aggressive.  I comically use the term "puck-hunting" but it kind of describes what they're doing vs. all four players standing to the goalie's left trying to describe cloud animals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for the record, as much as people might want Quenneville to come in (and I'd be happy with Quenneville), I wouldn't be surprised if it's someone like Sheldon Keefe from the Toronto Marlies that gets the head coach position. He's paid his dues coaching in the CJHL, OHL and AHL. He's done a great job every where he's been and it's only a matter of time before some NHL team comes calling. The Flyers would be an ideal fit simply because of all the youth in the lineup. I could see Keefe working well with our D and the young forwards. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, King Knut said:

How does he suck before and not now?

 

Not thirsty anymore?  (NTTAWWT)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Just for the record, as much as people might want Quenneville to come in (and I'd be happy with Quenneville), I wouldn't be surprised if it's someone like Sheldon Keefe from the Toronto Marlies that gets the head coach position. He's paid his dues coaching in the CJHL, OHL and AHL. He's done a great job every where he's been and it's only a matter of time before some NHL team comes calling. The Flyers would be an ideal fit simply because of all the youth in the lineup. I could see Keefe working well with our D and the young forwards. 

 

I really would be okay with that.  I like Q, but something has me really apprehensive about him coming to Philly.   I don't know if I can articulate it.  I don't know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

This isn't exactly an answer, but I simply couldn't stand him.  I thought his teams were too passive and not for any particular reason other than it reflected its coach.   

 

So, I was fully in the "Hitch Must Go!" camp.  Clarke, too.    My favorite Canadian golf pro loved me for it.  As excited as I was when that went down, I was fully "Noooooo!!!!" when Stevens got it.  As you say, he was given nothing to work with.  Or little, anyway.   I don't think he was let go just because Lavvy happened to be available, though I agree that was impetus behind the timing.   He just ultimately proved to not be a head coach. Understanding that he again didn't have a great team to work with, I think he proved that again in Los Angeles.

 

If I have an assistant coach opening, I'm calling John Stevens.  I think he's fairly decent with X's and O's and makes for a good special teams or defense coach.   For whatever reason, he's a better lieutenant than a captain. I have no idea what goes on in his "war room."  I don't know if he tries to do too much himself or if he's too passive to be head coach or what it is.   No idea.   But twice now, it just seems he's not suited for the head coach job.  

 

So, to amend my opening line:  It's not that I couldn't stand HIM.  He's well-spoken and seems like a decent man.  I just couldn't stand his being head coach.

 

 

I can agree with all of that.  I certainly didn’t love him.  I thought his systems worked well... but he was boring and kind of like Hakstol (who had many problems Stevens can’t boast) couldn’t argue with the refs effectively or light a fire his guys didn’t get lit on their own. 

 

Hakstol i fear had had a talent for putting out fires his guys would light on their own.

 

I truly do still miss Laviolette.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Just for the record, as much as people might want Quenneville to come in (and I'd be happy with Quenneville), I wouldn't be surprised if it's someone like Sheldon Keefe from the Toronto Marlies that gets the head coach position. He's paid his dues coaching in the CJHL, OHL and AHL. He's done a great job every where he's been and it's only a matter of time before some NHL team comes calling. The Flyers would be an ideal fit simply because of all the youth in the lineup. I could see Keefe working well with our D and the young forwards. 

 

Keefe is actually who I wanted to get the Job, but I figured even AHL guys don’t tend to leave their clubs for other orgs mid season. 

 

I like that that he’s an advanced stats guy and a proven winner. 

 

That at would be a progressive view of the position to be sure.  

 

But I think they’d be hard pressed to dismiss what Gordon has accomplished in favor of another minor league coach right now.  Even if it is Keefe.  One way or another I expect to see both Gordon and Keefe coaching in the NHL next season. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I really would be okay with that.  I like Q, but something has me really apprehensive about him coming to Philly.   I don't know if I can articulate it.  I don't know.

 

I think we’ve been over this, but I feel it too.  It’s a strong feeling though right?  

 

There’s just  something abiut it that feels off. And like it won’t work. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Hakstol i fear had had a talent for putting out fires his guys would light on their own.

 

I truly do still miss Laviolette.  

 

Yes.  Agreed on both counts.   I didn't like the Lavvy firing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I think we’ve been over this, but I feel it too.  It’s a strong feeling though right?  

 

There’s just  something abiut it that feels off. And like it won’t work. 


Yeah, it really  is strong.   Strong enough you'd think I could name it.  It's just a Spidey-sense kind of thing--to be a nerd about it.  He just doesn't seem like quite the right answer.

 

I was going to type earlier that maybe it's that I'm suspicious that at this point in his career he may not be great with a young team.  But you and I have both commented that this team actually could be right there if given the right structure mixed with the right voice.  So then I think, "why not?"

 

Maybe it's simply that I'm not convinced that his heart is in it.   Maybe that changes.  Maybe he's had time to lick wounds, and he's ready for another swing at it.  Maybe.

 

Like I said, I can't articulate it, but it's nagging at me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Keefe is actually who I wanted to get the Job, but I figured even AHL guys don’t tend to leave their clubs for other orgs mid season. 

 

I like that that he’s an advanced stats guy and a proven winner. 

 

That at would be a progressive view of the position to be sure.  

 

But I think they’d be hard pressed to dismiss what Gordon has accomplished in favor of another minor league coach right now.  Even if it is Keefe.  One way or another I expect to see both Gordon and Keefe coaching in the NHL next season. 

 

 

We agree here, too.   I really do like the Keefe suggestion, but I think you're argument of why that's not likely is pretty good.  Sigh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not jumping off any bridges if Gordon is extended.  He seems to have a really good rapport with the guys on the bench.  I mean, you see him go over to players at all the right times, whether to console, cajole, congratulate, joke, whatever.  

 

We're not going to see Larry Bowa temper tantrums with the refs, but I don't see him as a Stevens stoic or a Hakstol coma patient.  So, if he's extended, great, let's go to war. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

First of all, I could be wrong but I get the suspicion that Jumbles and Fumbles ruined their relationship with Quenneville by playing games with that whole meeting when Q got here. As far as Gordon, I don't see much of a change except that Provorov and Sanheim are playing better. Ghost continues to look lost at times. The veteran corps has been better. I think this season turned around for one reason, and one reason only. Carter Hart (and at times like versus the Islanders, Brian Elliott). They finally have a really goalie in Hart who can steal wins in spite of team's flaws. They are playing well, but they are wildly inconsistent at times still. If they didn't screw the pooch with Q, I would still hire him...provided the ownership and Fletcher will let Q coach. I gather Fletcher wants to bring in his own guy that he knows, if that is Q, that would be great, but that is anybody's guess.

Edited by FD19372

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

As far as Gordon, I don't see much of a change except that Provorov and Sanheim are playing better

@King Knut, you wanna take this?

 

I actually see a hell of alot of difference. 

32 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Jumbles and Fumbles ruined their relationship with Quenneville by playing games with that whole meeting when Q got here

I don't actually remember what this is referring to. 

 

I'm okay with Q, but like I said to king, I'm really uncomfortable with it.  But since I can't explain even to myself why, I wouldn't necessarily argue against it. 

 

But honestly, I see a heck of alot of difference between the team under Gordon/Wilson (I have to include Wilson) and Hakstol/Murphy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Most Liked Posts in This Topic

    • 6
      Post
      I was never a fan of Scott Gordon, however, his and the Flyers performance since he took over as interim coach has been really solid. He is using younger players, his line/player adjustments during the game have ben adroit. Additionally he not afraid of calling a time-out! All in all, I think that he deserves the title of Head Coach. I know Q's still out there, but Gordon has done an excellent job. 
    • 5
      Post
      He merits serious consideration to have the interim tag removed.  Still think the upper management will want a "name" coach.  I'm not opposed to interviewing others, but I would be opposed to excluding Gordon from any consideration.   Either way, it's a win for Gordon.  This stint has probably earned him another shot in the NHL, whether it's with the Flyers or another team.
    • 5
      Post
      That made me nauseated just reading it.   If they hire him, I'd be even more unhappy than normal.  I'm married 24 years, so that's actually hard to do.
    • 5
      Post
      @brelic The four horsemen of suckitude
    • 4
      Post
      Your and rad's secret is safe with me... 
    • 4
      Post
      Well whatever they decide I hope it works.   A Cup before I leave this earth would be nice.    
×
×
  • Create New...