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CreaseAndAssist

A Look Back: the Definitive History of Why the North Stars left Minnesota

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Since today marks the 26th anniversary of the announcement the North Stars were leaving for Dallas I tried to find my article I wrote back in 2011.  Much to my horror it had disappeared because the site I wrote it on no longer exists.  Thankfully it was archived via the Way Back Machine.  So I took it and updated it a bit and re-issued it.  Enjoy...and discuss.  

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It is interesting to take a look back on why the team left. I know a lot of people like to blame Norm Green as the sole reason the team left, but the North Stars as an organization did themselves no favors either. Poor drafting, poor trades, mediocre results. Not something to get the fan base excited about...

 

But the League did seem almost too eager to let the team relocate. I mean, how many times has the league stepped in to keep the Coyotes in Arizona?

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25 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

It is interesting to take a look back on why the team left. I know a lot of people like to blame Norm Green as the sole reason the team left, but the North Stars as an organization did themselves no favors either. Poor drafting, poor trades, mediocre results. Not something to get the fan base excited about...

 

But the League did seem almost too eager to let the team relocate. I mean, how many times has the league stepped in to keep the Coyotes in Arizona?

 

Yea, it is interesting.  Although I really wonder if they'd spare them from relocation today.  My guess is they'd love to move that franchise to Houston.  

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3 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Yea, it is interesting.  Although I really wonder if they'd spare them from relocation today.  My guess is they'd love to move that franchise to Houston.  

 

I'm guessing that franchise stays in Arizona until the Rapture, because if it ever moves, it means Bettman was wrong, and we all know Bettman can't be wrong...if it does move, it will move after Bettman steps down as commissioner...

 

I'm surprised there hasn't been more rumblings about the Panthers moving...I've seen PeeWee games draw more...

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Posted (edited)

Wow, Great read.

I remember all those different scenarios which led up to the demise.

Especially the deals with the existing arenas and the MOA.

Poor Lou, He did his best throughout it all.

 

I never really used Norm's harassment as a reason for them moving. Too easy.

Proof that even back then the media loves drama in sexual harassment stories than business dealings.

 

I still have that 'transition' jersey.

I've tried to sell it a few times in a garage sale and one time was asked why I had a Dallas jersey....:bonkingheadonwall:

Edited by ClusterChuck
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On 3/10/2019 at 12:48 PM, CreaseAndAssist said:

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Since today marks the 26th anniversary of the announcement the North Stars were leaving for Dallas I tried to find my article I wrote back in 2011.  Much to my horror it had disappeared because the site I wrote it on no longer exists.  Thankfully it was archived via the Way Back Machine.  So I took it and updated it a bit and re-issued it.  Enjoy...and discuss.  

 

I remember exactly this thread in the old message boards and we had a lot of interesting discussion about it. Almost 8 years from and I feel it was yesterday... I wrote a whole bunch of thoughts in an "outside" perspective and I would love to try to dig a bit in my memories and try to end up with a novel...

 

As in some of the moves there were a lot unhappy circumstances that led to the move. Of course, Norm Green but I won't depict him as the 100% villain. Like @ClusterChuck said, the franchise didn't help itself a lot. That was also the beginning of the Buttman's era and the commisioner was hired for one thing: develop the hockey market in the south, no matter what. After the North Stars, the Jets left with the Nordiques and the Whalers. Meanwhile new expansion teams took place in Florida, Tampa Bay, Anaheim. The timing was pretty bad.

 

Also, the building. It's the same of what the Senators, the Panthers and the Coyotes are through today: a facility in a no man's land. Having the Met Center in the suburb was not ideal at all and it needed upgrades and renovations. The thing that still bugs me is why it was not possible to play at the new Target Center in downtown Minneapolis ?? I heard the argument that is was due to advertisement contracts and sponsoring (Pepsi vs Coca Cola or something like that). A lot of places use the same building for both basketball and hockey and I'm still wondering why it was not an option at that time. And speaking about basketball, The Timberwolves was new in the city and there was some hype around them. I do understand that the city didn't want to put taxpayers' money again in a sport building, but it didn't seem to have a strong willingness to do something in favor of the franchise. Again, bad timing on that too...

 

Finally, the other college hockey was working pretty well. So the people had this to think about. Why paying a huge amount of money to see a loser team why other teams in which we better identify ourselves are winning, and moreover for less money ?

 

You can correct me if I'm wrong on certain aspects, but yes the loss stung a lot but I don't put the blame solely on Norm Green. Dis he want to move at the very first second he purchased the team ? Maybe, maybe not. Did he play fair? Maybe not. But I'm still buying the argument that the main reason for the move was the economic situation and the opportunity to grow a market elsewhere with all the perspectives it implied.

 

Everybody had its part of guilt at some extent.

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It sucks when a city loses an iconic franchise, to this day my 79 year old father when going to the restroom always says, "I am going to go take a giant Modell." Still funny, every time.

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Thanks @CreaseAndAssist! Fantastic write up even way back then. I forgot about the Gund deal that pretty much stripped the Stars of any talent. The team was screwed from there on and never had a chance.

But like it was pointed out, it was never 100% Norms fault. The team had been terrible for some time. Poor drafting, lack of actually high end talent and just a faulty product on the ice takes a toll on any fan base. Norm still sucks though. He was hot to trot about relocating. I do recall when the team was bad the prices did increase. At least I swear to god I am not imagining this.

This whole ordeal created a weird issue with the fanbase of the Wild now. Some of us, like me, will always be a North Star fan first and the Wild feel like some weird "second string" team. Don't get me wrong, I am so happy we have pro hockey here but I also feel like I don't owe this team anything and have no problem nitpicking the glaring issues. They are our team but they aren't, if you know what I mean.
We also have fans that were here and aware of the North Stars before the Wild. They worry about losing another team and will defend everything and paint a rosy picture no matter the situation.

Both fan base are neither right or wrong. We all enjoy hockey. Hell a lot of us love it! I know the sting of the North Stars suck because we lived through such a bad teams forever and when they finally showed signs of improving were moved.

What is crazy is if you look at how the Stars were, a stagnant team with bad drafting, no high end talent and directionless, that would describe the Wild and Gophers right now. Sort of feels like we are seeing a very similar path right this second.

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On 3/11/2019 at 11:38 AM, IllaZilla said:

 

I'm guessing that franchise stays in Arizona until the Rapture, because if it ever moves, it means Bettman was wrong, and we all know Bettman can't be wrong...if it does move, it will move after Bettman steps down as commissioner...

 

I'm surprised there hasn't been more rumblings about the Panthers moving...I've seen PeeWee games draw more...

 

Meh, not sure I buy that.  He obviously had to admit it was wrong in being in Atlanta and that relocation worked out great.  

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Posted (edited)
On 3/11/2019 at 12:57 PM, Villette/Lavaux said:

 

I remember exactly this thread in the old message boards and we had a lot of interesting discussion about it. Almost 8 years from and I feel it was yesterday... I wrote a whole bunch of thoughts in an "outside" perspective and I would love to try to dig a bit in my memories and try to end up with a novel...

 

As in some of the moves there were a lot unhappy circumstances that led to the move. Of course, Norm Green but I won't depict him as the 100% villain. Like @ClusterChuck said, the franchise didn't help itself a lot. That was also the beginning of the Buttman's era and the commisioner was hired for one thing: develop the hockey market in the south, no matter what. After the North Stars, the Jets left with the Nordiques and the Whalers. Meanwhile new expansion teams took place in Florida, Tampa Bay, Anaheim. The timing was pretty bad.

 

Also, the building. It's the same of what the Senators, the Panthers and the Coyotes are through today: a facility in a no man's land. Having the Met Center in the suburb was not ideal at all and it needed upgrades and renovations. The thing that still bugs me is why it was not possible to play at the new Target Center in downtown Minneapolis ?? I heard the argument that is was due to advertisement contracts and sponsoring (Pepsi vs Coca Cola or something like that). A lot of places use the same building for both basketball and hockey and I'm still wondering why it was not an option at that time. And speaking about basketball, The Timberwolves was new in the city and there was some hype around them. I do understand that the city didn't want to put taxpayers' money again in a sport building, but it didn't seem to have a strong willingness to do something in favor of the franchise. Again, bad timing on that too...

 

Finally, the other college hockey was working pretty well. So the people had this to think about. Why paying a huge amount of money to see a loser team why other teams in which we better identify ourselves are winning, and moreover for less money ?

 

You can correct me if I'm wrong on certain aspects, but yes the loss stung a lot but I don't put the blame solely on Norm Green. Dis he want to move at the very first second he purchased the team ? Maybe, maybe not. Did he play fair? Maybe not. But I'm still buying the argument that the main reason for the move was the economic situation and the opportunity to grow a market elsewhere with all the perspectives it implied.

 

Everybody had its part of guilt at some extent.

 

(shrugs)  I think his growing legal troubles here gave him more than nudge to move the team too.  The fanbase still wanted to support the North Stars, they were just tired of seeing a crappy product for so long.  I think he tried; to a token amount and when everything didn't line up just the way he wanted...he decided to bolt to Dallas.  Green burned some bridges and his style caused many to bolt.  

 

I think the better What if...is if this team won a Stanley Cup in 1990-91 or even 1981.  Could that have changed things.  I know I wrote an article about that too a few years ago.  

Edited by CreaseAndAssist

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

I think the better What if...is if this team won a Stanley Cup in 1990-91 or even 1981.  Could that have changed things.  I know I wrote an article about that too a few years ago.  

 

Like they say, winning fixes everything...

 

If they win a Cup, there definitely would have been a surge in season ticket sales, which would have helped with the bottom line. Might have also been more persuasive to the Metropolitan Sports Commission to pony up the dough he wanted to fix up the arena. 

 

Not sure it would have helped with the lawsuits, but maybe he finds a buyer who is willing to shell out for a championship team and keep the team in Minnesota. And maybe the League is less anxious to move a team right after they win a championship...

 

If "ifs and buts" were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas!

Edited by IllaZilla
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Was't alive during the North Stars era...what did the owner do to get these lawsuits filed against him. 

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4 minutes ago, DevinWieser said:

Was't alive during the North Stars era...what did the owner do to get these lawsuits filed against him. 

From Crease and Assists article:

 

Just as this proposal crashed and burned, there were allegations of 

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 made by some of his secretaries who claimed that Green regularly demanded that they kiss him and that he would stand over them closely so they could look down their blouses as well as this 

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 from the Minneapolis Star Tribune.  It was also claimed that Green’s wife nearly left him and demanded that he move the team away to avoid the mounting media pressure.

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It would be very interesting if the same scenario was to happen today. (All the events)

How would the team and the NHL handle it, Especially with the media coverage.

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On 3/12/2019 at 1:05 PM, EJ0226 said:

Don't get me wrong, I am so happy we have pro hockey here but I also feel like I don't owe this team anything and have no problem nitpicking the glaring issues. They are our team but they aren't, if you know what I mean.

 

I exactly get it. Same feeling for me.

 

For guys in North America, the reason of being a fan of this or that team is pretty obvious: it's your origin place, the city you live in, the place with natural bonds I would say. As a former european living 4000 miles away, it's less evident. Sometimes it's just a detail, a friend who's a fan, something special, the logo you just like, a gift...

 

In my case, I became a North Star fan because former North Star defender Frantisek Musil was a friend of my mother (both came from the same city in Czech Rep. and were nearly neighbors). So I received a North Star jersey when I was a kid, and I also met Musil during the summer break back in Czech Republic. Furthermore, I liked the jersey very much, I was the only guy with a green jersey in my hockey team, that was original and kinda cool. And it all started from that (I'm a Raider fan because I received a Raider keyholder and a Raider magazine with a beautiful girl sitting on on a helmet in the front page; I'm also a Cubs fan just because I found the name "Cubs" cool...)

Anyway, after the Stars departure, I lost interest in the NHL but I was thrilled when they announced a new franchise for Minnesota (drawback point was, I had to wait like 3 more years). But when the team name was chosen, I was like: "Wild ?!?! Meh... weird..." (I was rooting for Northern Lights). The main color was green, which was essential to me (Like above, sometimes it's just as stupid as that), but the combo forest green/iron red was unfortunate and led to all jokes about X-mas. Moreover, the early 2000's was a terrible period in terms of hockey uniforms design. The Wild somehow avoided a bit horror things like the Preds'yellow mustard or the fisherman Islander, but still. During the first Stars-Wild game, I was jealous. Damn the Stars had a gorgeous jersey while the Wild had this strange color combo with the clunky Wild shoulder patch.

 

Being a original North Star fan, I always have the feeling that something is lacking, a thing that could finish a 100%-completion of this team embracement.

 

Sorry for the long personal post, I quite lose it when all this things come into my mind 🙂

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43 minutes ago, ClusterChuck said:

It would be very interesting if the same scenario was to happen today. (All the events)

How would the team and the NHL handle it, Especially with the media coverage.

 

Well, Donald Sterling was forced to sell the Los Angels Clippers in 2014 after racist comments of his became public...

 

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29 minutes ago, Villette/Lavaux said:

 

I exactly get it. Same feeling for me.

 

For guys in North America, the reason of being a fan of this or that team is pretty obvious: it's your origin place, the city you live in, the place with natural bonds I would say. As a former european living 4000 miles away, it's less evident. Sometimes it's just a detail, a friend who's a fan, something special, the logo you just like, a gift...

 

In my case, I became a North Star fan because former North Star defender Frantisek Musil was a friend of my mother (both came from the same city in Czech Rep. and were nearly neighbors). So I received a North Star jersey when I was a kid, and I also met Musil during the summer break back in Czech Republic. Furthermore, I liked the jersey very much, I was the only guy with a green jersey in my hockey team, that was original and kinda cool. And it all started from that (I'm a Raider fan because I received a Raider keyholder and a Raider magazine with a beautiful girl sitting on on a helmet in the front page; I'm also a Cubs fan just because I found the name "Cubs" cool...)

Anyway, after the Stars departure, I lost interest in the NHL but I was thrilled when they announced a new franchise for Minnesota (drawback point was, I had to wait like 3 more years). But when the team name was chosen, I was like: "Wild ?!?! Meh... weird..." (I was rooting for Northern Lights). The main color was green, which was essential to me (Like above, sometimes it's just as stupid as that), but the combo forest green/iron red was unfortunate and led to all jokes about X-mas. Moreover, the early 2000's was a terrible period in terms of hockey uniforms design. The Wild somehow avoided a bit horror things like the Preds'yellow mustard or the fisherman Islander, but still. During the first Stars-Wild game, I was jealous. Damn the Stars had a gorgeous jersey while the Wild had this strange color combo with the clunky Wild shoulder patch.

 

Being a original North Star fan, I always have the feeling that something is lacking, a thing that could finish a 100%-completion of this team embracement.

 

Sorry for the long personal post, I quite lose it when all this things come into my mind 🙂

Don't be sorry. Fantastic write up! Don't get me wrong, I love the Wild and having Pro Hockey back in Minnesota but... best way to describe it is that there is something missing that will never be 100% like before. Maybe that is why I am able to look at the Wild more from a third person view instead of a fan with blinders one.  I love them but also know this team and the situation they are in are no way near being serious on a Cup run. And I want some bigger picture into what they are doing instead of what Fenton is doing.
But I miss the Stars sweaters. Man they were perfect. Beautiful colors and a strong yet simple design and logo. Dallas should have had to rename their team something completely different as it's just salt in the wound.

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About the jeseys, just a quick story here: we have a baseball pro team here in Québec City named "Capitales" with an "e" that is playing in the Canam league, a independant baseball league. Sometimes they play interleague games and when the St-Paul Saints came here to play a series some time ago, they wore Nordiques, resp. North Stars gear especially for that occasion. That was quite fun to watch.

 

QUEvsMNS.jpeg

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4 hours ago, Villette/Lavaux said:

 

I exactly get it. Same feeling for me.

 

For guys in North America, the reason of being a fan of this or that team is pretty obvious: it's your origin place, the city you live in, the place with natural bonds I would say. As a former european living 4000 miles away, it's less evident. Sometimes it's just a detail, a friend who's a fan, something special, the logo you just like, a gift...

 

In my case, I became a North Star fan because former North Star defender Frantisek Musil was a friend of my mother (both came from the same city in Czech Rep. and were nearly neighbors). So I received a North Star jersey when I was a kid, and I also met Musil during the summer break back in Czech Republic. Furthermore, I liked the jersey very much, I was the only guy with a green jersey in my hockey team, that was original and kinda cool. And it all started from that (I'm a Raider fan because I received a Raider keyholder and a Raider magazine with a beautiful girl sitting on on a helmet in the front page; I'm also a Cubs fan just because I found the name "Cubs" cool...)

Anyway, after the Stars departure, I lost interest in the NHL but I was thrilled when they announced a new franchise for Minnesota (drawback point was, I had to wait like 3 more years). But when the team name was chosen, I was like: "Wild ?!?! Meh... weird..." (I was rooting for Northern Lights). The main color was green, which was essential to me (Like above, sometimes it's just as stupid as that), but the combo forest green/iron red was unfortunate and led to all jokes about X-mas. Moreover, the early 2000's was a terrible period in terms of hockey uniforms design. The Wild somehow avoided a bit horror things like the Preds'yellow mustard or the fisherman Islander, but still. During the first Stars-Wild game, I was jealous. Damn the Stars had a gorgeous jersey while the Wild had this strange color combo with the clunky Wild shoulder patch.

 

Being a original North Star fan, I always have the feeling that something is lacking, a thing that could finish a 100%-completion of this team embracement.

 

Sorry for the long personal post, I quite lose it when all this things come into my mind 🙂

No problem. Great post. I remember Frankie, wore #6 if memory serves. Not very many Czech's in the NHL then...

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I feel like I need to point out that it was ME that suggested the Wayback Machine and actually found the article.

 

:D

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1 hour ago, MNSOTA said:

I feel like I need to point out that it was ME that suggested the Wayback Machine and actually found the article.

 

:D

Well, they say that behind every great man there’s a great woman...😉

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      Post
      Hidden Content Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.   Since today marks the 26th anniversary of the announcement the North Stars were leaving for Dallas I tried to find my article I wrote back in 2011.  Much to my horror it had disappeared because the site I wrote it on no longer exists.  Thankfully it was archived via the Way Back Machine.  So I took it and updated it a bit and re-issued it.  Enjoy.
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      It is interesting to take a look back on why the team left. I know a lot of people like to blame Norm Green as the sole reason the team left, but the North Stars as an organization did themselves no favors either. Poor drafting, poor trades, mediocre results. Not something to get the fan base excited about...   But the League did seem almost too eager to let the team relocate. I mean, how many times has the league stepped in to keep the Coyotes in Arizona?
    • 2
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      Wow, Great read. I remember all those different scenarios which led up to the demise. Especially the deals with the existing arenas and the MOA. Poor Lou, He did his best throughout it all.   I never really used Norm's harassment as a reason for them moving. Too easy. Proof that even back then the media loves drama in sexual harassment stories than business dealings.   I still have that 'transition' jersey. I've tried to sell it a few times in a garag
    • 2
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      I exactly get it. Same feeling for me.   For guys in North America, the reason of being a fan of this or that team is pretty obvious: it's your origin place, the city you live in, the place with natural bonds I would say. As a former european living 4000 miles away, it's less evident. Sometimes it's just a detail, a friend who's a fan, something special, the logo you just like, a gift...   In my case, I became a North Star fan because former North Star defender Frantisek Musi
    • 1
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      It sucks when a city loses an iconic franchise, to this day my 79 year old father when going to the restroom always says, "I am going to go take a giant Modell." Still funny, every time.
    • 1
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      Thanks @CreaseAndAssist! Fantastic write up even way back then. I forgot about the Gund deal that pretty much stripped the Stars of any talent. The team was screwed from there on and never had a chance. But like it was pointed out, it was never 100% Norms fault. The team had been terrible for some time. Poor drafting, lack of actually high end talent and just a faulty product on the ice takes a toll on any fan base. Norm still sucks though. He was hot to trot about relocating. I do recall w
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