If we cant sign Panerin should we offer sheet Kapenan?

[RonJeremy]

The general consensus is we need a second line center , a skilled scoring right wing and a veteran dman. I really dont think we should go after Duschene, paying 9 million for a 20 goal , 60 point center when we have Frost is just insane.

Panarin is the kind of dynamic scorer we could use, but if the price is unrealistic or he isn't interested in Philly , would it be a good move to offer sheet Kapenen? He is pretty dynamic and looks like he could blossom into a big scorer. Toronto is cash strapped,  so maybe we take advantage of that. He could very well be a 30 goal man and cost half of what Panarin wants.

As far as defense, I know they will probably trade for one, so that leaves someone as the odd man out. With Meyers and Sanheims offensive skills, I have a feeling Ghost will be the odd man out

[Podein25]

22 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

The general consensus is we need a second line center , a skilled scoring right wing and a veteran dman. I really dont think we should go after Duschene, paying 9 million for a 20 goal , 60 point center when we have Frost is just insane.

Panarin is the kind of dynamic scorer we could use, but if the price is unrealistic or he isn't interested in Philly , would it be a good move to offer sheet Kapenen? He is pretty dynamic and looks like he could blossom into a big scorer. Toronto is cash strapped,  so maybe we take advantage of that. He could very well be a 30 goal man and cost half of what Panarin wants.

As far as defense, I know they will probably trade for one, so that leaves someone as the odd man out. With Meyers and Sanheims offensive skills, I have a feeling Ghost will be the odd man out

 

Or, they could sign this European FA I''ve heard about with the odd name: Kə Lüzhən

 

[yave1964]

The lack of offer sheets has always bothered me, never have understood how the players union doesn't make a big deal of it. It stinks of collusion to me but greater minds than mine in the NHLPA apparently dont think so.

 

  As for offer sheeting Kapanen, meh, he is okay but I see him as a 20ish goal 50ish point guy on his top shelf season. Giving him an offer sheet would mean having to overpay what Toronto could offer which means overpaying. He has been slow to develop in the NHL, he came to Toronto from Pittsburgh in the Kessel deal and his development has been glacial, playing with Matthews and Tavares as his primary centers he has 19 goals and 42 points in 68 games which is certainly good but what would it take? 5 years, 5 million to get Toronto to pass? I just think that there are better cheaper options out there, or for that money there are players I would rather have. I just dont think he is worth what the cost would be.

[RonJeremy]

Well, what right wing snipers do you have in mind? Getting Panarin or Kapenan might just cost $ and draft picks. Making a trade could be a big cost like one of our young defenseman. 

[yave1964]

@RonJeremy

 

Skinner is an UFA who wants term/money, others are:

 

Pavelski still plays one hell of a game, aging but can play RW or center on a top line.

 

Kevin Hayes can play either center or wing, Nyquist has been scoring at nearly a point a game most of the year. Brock Nelson is one of the games most underrated players for the Islanders.

 All are UFAs who will go cheaper than the bread man. all are players I would rather have than Kapanen.

 

 Then of course there is that Simmonds guy in Nashville.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

The general consensus is we need a second line center

 

Then why not offer sheet Brayden Point?? I mean if we are going to offer sheet someone.

 

 

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Panarin is the kind of dynamic scorer we could use, but if the price is unrealistic or he isn't interested in Philly , would it be a good move to offer sheet Kapenen?

 

Kapanen is a right wing so why would we try and sign a LW and then if you fail sign a RW??

 

They guy i would try to land is a LW. I would go after another Leaf. Andreas Johnsson.

 

He is 24 so a little old than Kapanen but i think he is faster.  And can be just as productive if not more.

 

https://www.nhl.com/player/andreas-johnsson-8477341

 

 

I would take this kid in a heartbeat.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, Podein25 said:

Kə Lüzhən

 

SIGN HIM SIGN HIM SIGN HIM

 

 

Hey wait......it is a "him"....right?

 

 

 

 

 

[Podein25]

25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

SIGN HIM SIGN HIM SIGN HIM

 

 

Hey wait......it is a "him"....right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

More of a "thing" or an act. Hint: Russian

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

More of a "thing" or an act. Hint: Russian

 

Well if IT can't play goal we don't need IT!!!!!!!!!

[AJgoal]

I agree with @yave1964, for the money you'd have better options. If you're willing to put out an offer sheet, might as well go all in and try to land Point or Marner. Neither team can currently even afford to match a 1,2,3 offer (~$6-$8 million aav), so you don't have to necessarily risk 4 1sts if you don't want. Even if you force them into a match, that weakens either potential ECF opponent by forcing them to cut costs elsewhere.

 

I don't get the thinking that Ghost would/could/should be an odd man out, either in the thinking of the fanbase or the management. You have the potential for a defense that features 4 very good to excellent skaters in Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, and Myers. That gives you the ability to have guys who can control the play coming up ice on every pair. I really love how Gost and Myers look together,  though I think you need to split one of the pairs up. Add to that the fact that Ghost's contract is really team friendly, and it's a no-brainer to keep him IMO. A top six of 

 

Provorov - Myers

Sanheim - Gudas

Ghost - Whoever

 

Looks really good to me. If you want to balance it a bit more, put Ghost with Gudas and let Sanheim carry his pair. You have a lot of options in that lineup. 

[RonJeremy]

Sorry I keep thinking Panarin is a right wing. He is right handed, can he play right wing?  My thought on going after Kapanen is, the Leafs are far more apt to let him go so they have $$ for their big guns. If we go after Marner they will just match and dump some other guys. If we go  after another teams top players , they most likely will match. By going after an up and coming player, it wont cost as much and chances are they would even work out a trade . Toronto is primed to be taken advantage of, but your not gonna get Marner.

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

I agree with @yave1964, for the money you'd have better options. If you're willing to put out an offer sheet, might as well go all in and try to land Point or Marner. Neither team can currently even afford to match a 1,2,3 offer (~$6-$8 million aav), so you don't have to necessarily risk 4 1sts if you don't want. Even if you force them into a match, that weakens either potential ECF opponent by forcing them to cut costs elsewhere.

 

I don't get the thinking that Ghost would/could/should be an odd man out, either in the thinking of the fanbase or the management. You have the potential for a defense that features 4 very good to excellent skaters in Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, and Myers. That gives you the ability to have guys who can control the play coming up ice on every pair. I really love how Gost and Myers look together,  though I think you need to split one of the pairs up. Add to that the fact that Ghost's contract is really team friendly, and it's a no-brainer to keep him IMO. A top six of 

 

Provorov - Myers

Sanheim - Gudas

Ghost - Whoever

 

Looks really good to me. If you want to balance it a bit more, put Ghost with Gudas and let Sanheim carry his pair. You have a lot of options in that lineup. 

Ghost would be the odd man out if we get a veteran top 3 dman. Provo,  Meyers, Sanheim and the Vet are the top pairings. Gudas and Morin the third pair. I dont see them putting Ghost on the third pair, I see him being traded to shore up the offense or for the veteran dman.

[AJgoal]

Just now, RonJeremy said:

Ghost would be the odd man out if we get a veteran top 3 dman. Provo,  Meyers, Sanheim and the Vet are the top pairings. Gudas and Morin the third pair. I dont see them putting Ghost on the third pair, I see him being traded to shore up the offense or for the veteran dman.

 

Unfortunately I don't disagree with this assessment.

 

I just think it's a dumb move if it's made. What are the chances of getting a 65 point forward, on a good contract for his prime years? Because that's what you're giving up if you move Ghost, and Ghost plays the more premium position vs. a winger.

[elmatus]

10 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 

Unfortunately I don't disagree with this assessment.

 

I just think it's a dumb move if it's made. What are the chances of getting a 65 point forward, on a good contract for his prime years? Because that's what you're giving up if you move Ghost, and Ghost plays the more premium position vs. a winger.

 

I don't think they'll move him just to upgrade the forward corps. They may opt to move him because of the Seattle draft though.

[RonJeremy]

There are several factors as to why Ghost would be moved. In the long run Meyers and Sanheims blossoming offensive game would replace his offense, plus both are  be better all around defenseman, the fact that management wants a top 3 veteran , the expansion draft, plus Morin and either Gudas or Haag will he the third pair. Ghost is not gonna be a third pair guy. Look at it this way , if the draft were tomorrow Provo, Sanheim and Meyers would be protected over Ghost. I'm not saying I want it to happen but it's the most logical scenario. In a trade to get quality you have to give quality. Everyone says trade Haag or Gudas, at best you get a second round pick. Ghost gets you alot more, trading him is better than losing him in the draft

 

[RonJeremy]

Let's say someone offered us the second pick in the draft for Ghost, we could get Kakko and he would he a player we would not have to protect on the expansion draft. There no point in trading for a guy we might lose in the expansion draft.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

Let's say someone offered us the second pick in the draft for Ghost,

 

Bye Ghost. I wish you well.

[AJgoal]

2 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

I don't think they'll move him just to upgrade the forward corps. They may opt to move him because of the Seattle draft though.

 

I keep seeing this sort of nonsense. That's TWO SEASONS AWAY. It's terrible thinking, and terrible asset management, to jettison guys now because you're worrying about expansion. Ice the best team you can. When the expansion draft rolls around, worry about it then. You're going to lose a player.  He's likely to actually be a pretty good one, and it will suck. If it's not a pretty good one, it's because you've decimated your talent level making sure that you don't lose a good one in the draft. Don't overthink it and lose a combination of players worth more to your team together than the one you would lose if you just let Seattle pick a guy. You're essentially mailing in the rest of Giroux's prime years if you trade good players for futures at this stage of the game. 

[elmatus]

5 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

I keep seeing this sort of nonsense. That's TWO SEASONS AWAY. It's terrible thinking, and terrible asset management, to jettison guys now because you're worrying about expansion. Ice the best team you can. When the expansion draft rolls around, worry about it then. You're going to lose a player.  He's likely to actually be a pretty good one, and it will suck. If it's not a pretty good one, it's because you've decimated your talent level making sure that you don't lose a good one in the draft. Don't overthink it and lose a combination of players worth more to your team together than the one you would lose if you just let Seattle pick a guy. You're essentially mailing in the rest of Giroux's prime years if you trade good players for futures at this stage of the game. 

 

You’re not wrong, but I could still see it happen. I keep reading stuff on how GMs do not want a repeat of Vegas and have “wisened up” since then.

 

Ghost to me is exactly the kind of player in the kind of situation where he’d be traded to avoid him getting plucked. That’s not me blindly endorsing whatever that trade would be, i’m just noting the real possibility of it. 

[AJgoal]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

There are several factors as to why Ghost would be moved. In the long run Meyers and Sanheims blossoming offensive game would replace his offense,

 

I like both players, and believe both have significant offensive upside, but neither has played a full season yet. And why "replace" his offense? Why not supplement it?

 

Quote

plus both are  be better all around defenseman,

 

Ghost is actually a very good all around defenseman, so I ask again, why replace rather than supplement?

 

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the fact that management wants a top 3 veteran ,

 

I'm hoping that the improved play of the young guys in the second half will change their mind.

 

Quote

 

the expansion draft,

 

See my post above. Trading in anticipation of expansion is a great way to drive the team into a longer cycle of mediocrity.

 

Quote

plus Morin and either Gudas or Haag will he the third pair.

 

That's a recipe for disaster. 

 

Quote

Ghost is not gonna be a third pair guy.

 

Why not? He makes less than MacDonald, and MacDonald is currently playing 6 minutes a night or is in the pressbox.

 

Quote

 

Look at it this way , if the draft were tomorrow Provo, Sanheim and Meyers would be protected over Ghost.

 

but it's not tomorrow, and if management acts in fear as if it were, they're stupid.

 

Quote

 

I'm not saying I want it to happen but it's the most logical scenario. In a trade to get quality you have to give quality.

 

I hear this every time someone argues for a trade where the team gives up the better player. I don't see many scenarios where the Flyers trade Ghost and it makes them better.

 

Quote

 

Everyone says trade Haag or Gudas, at best you get a second round pick.

 

Well, one, I don't say trade Gudas. Two, if you get a second for Hagg, you take it and run. 

 

Quote

Ghost gets you alot more, trading him is better than losing him in the draft

 

 

Ghost may net you more than the other two, but if more is less valuable to the team than he is, is it worth it? And again, moving him now out of fear of expansion, rather than using him for two more years and then making decisions around the expansion draft is dumb.

 

And no, you're not getting the #2 overall for Ghost.

[AJgoal]

6 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

You’re not wrong, but I could still see it happen. I keep reading stuff on how GMs do not want a repeat of Vegas and have “wisened up” since then.

 

Ghost to me is exactly the kind of player in the kind of situation where he’d be traded to avoid him getting plucked. That’s not me blindly endorsing whatever that trade would be, i’m just noting the real possibility of it. 

 

I understand that, sorry if I came across as railing on you. I'm just angry at the thought that the management might actually do something so blatantly stupid.

[RonJeremy]

If you trade Ghost for below value that's poor asset management, if you got a top draft pick like Kakko, then that's good asset management. You replace a very good player who would definitely be taken in the expansion draft with a very good player who is exempt.

[RonJeremy]

3 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

I like both players, and believe both have significant offensive upside, but neither has played a full season yet. And why "replace" his offense? Why not supplement it?

 

 

Ghost is actually a very good all around defenseman, so I ask again, why replace rather than supplement?

 

 

I'm hoping that the improved play of the young guys in the second half will change their mind.

 

 

See my post above. Trading in anticipation of expansion is a great way to drive the team into a longer cycle of mediocrity.

 

 

That's a recipe for disaster. 

 

 

Why not? He makes less than MacDonald, and MacDonald is currently playing 6 minutes a night or is in the pressbox.

 

 

but it's not tomorrow, and if management acts in fear as if it were, they're stupid.

 

 

I hear this every time someone argues for a trade where the team gives up the better player. I don't see many scenarios where the Flyers trade Ghost and it makes them better.

 

 

Well, one, I don't say trade Gudas. Two, if you get a second for Hagg, you take it and run. 

 

 

Ghost may net you more than the other two, but if more is less valuable to the team than he is, is it worth it?

Of course he is more valuable, but not as a third pairing, which is exactly where he would be if we get a veteran and since we have offensive dmen already that's why he would be moved. To properly complete the defense a top veteran and Morins physical game on the third pair would actually make the defense more diverse and complete than if we kept Ghost.

[AJgoal]

2 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

If you trade Ghost for below value that's poor asset management, if you got a top draft pick like Kakko, then that's good asset management. You replace a very good player who would definitely be taken in the expansion draft with a very good player who is exempt.

 

Two things, first, you aren't getting Kakko for Ghost. Two, you can protect all four if you choose, and I could certainly see the Flyers doing so if that's where the value is to the roster.

 

Or, you just play Ghost at wing for the 20-21 season.

[RonJeremy]

Making trades is like playing Chess, you have to anticipate the situation, such as the cap, the expansion draft, over all needs of the team...you don't make a panic move but losing a dman is inevitable,  so if you have an opportunity now to get a great return for Ghost then you think about it, because that opportunity may not be there when every team is scrambling at the last minute making deals for the expansion draft.