This 3 in 4 is where I hope attention is payed

[mojo1917]

To realistically remain in the playoff hunt the Flyers needed 4 points from the last 4 games. They got 2, and last night's game vs the Habs was very frustrating to watch. For starters it seems to me that the Canadiens are just amazing the way they are able to tie up opponents sticks, it's almost like they are grabbing them with their own hands. - oh wait, they were, still the Habs played with a tempo that is problematic for the Flyers as constructed.  The league seems to be trending toward a high tempo, high pressure style and the Flyers do not have the answers for it.

So can coaching change this ?

Is it a matter of young guys getting stronger on the puck, bully the little quick rat **** guys out of the way?  

I know the kids in the system are burners, I know there are some good skaters in the A- NAK has good wheels.  

Was this season derailed by bad fortune at the beginning of the year with injuries, corporate meddling and goalie roulette ?

Or does none of that matter ? 

 

The Flyers playing .800 hockey for 3 months isn't sustainable so I know some Ls were coming, and realistically the Flyers should have beaten the Leafs, but they didn't so at what point now does the "brain trust" start looking at "some guys" in the system to see what can be done for next year ?

 

 

[elmatus]

16 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

at what point now does the "brain trust" start looking at "some guys" in the system to see what can be done for next year ?

 

I very much hope the brain trust has been doing that since Fletch took over. Their chances of making the playoffs have been very very low since xmas. I understand Fletch has been putting on a positive face to the media -- as he should -- but if he hasn't been having the harder conversations about what happens when the team fails to make the playoffs, that would be very worrying to me. The last thing we need is a GM who can't weigh probabilities and make reasoned estimates.

 

At the very least, we need to see a new coaching staff that fits whatever vision Fletch sees for this team going forward. Start with that as a bare minimum.

[vis]

20 hours ago, King Knut said:

Getting all three new players I'm talking about isn't likely to be affordable anyway.  

Probably not, especially after locking up the core RFAs.

 

20 hours ago, King Knut said:

Farabee's only a Freshman in college.  Not likely he'll be pushing the NHL next year.

Ratcliffe can be an injury call up and compete for Raffl's job eventually.

But at some point they will, hopefully, be ready for full time NHL duty.  Assuming they sign Panarin and make no other moves, the Flyers' wings in the top 9 look a little crowded.

 

20 hours ago, King Knut said:

One of them is going to have to push to the right side eventually if they're both going to be Flyers.

 

I'd be just thrilled if our 4th line was Farabee Laughton Ratcliffe for a few years.  

I'd rather see Farabee in the top 9, much like Frost.  Ratcliffe as well, though I don't know where he projects at the NHL level.  His 50G suggests top 9 as well.  I'd be a bit of a letdown for them both to log "plumber" minutes on the fourth line.  Again, though, not a bad problem to have.

 

20 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Fletcher trading JVR is also a distinct possibility.  His value's going to be pretty high as it is, let alone if he keeps pushing and pots 30 goals in what was mostly an off year for him.  

I still support signing him, but if Fletcher brings in a Panarin and Frost makes the team, I have no issues trading him.  

At first, I thought trading JVR wouldn't be a possibility, mainly because it may hurt the Flyers in terms of attracting future UFAs for fear of being traded.  But, JVR was Hextall's guy, not Fletcher's.  Fletcher doesn't need to show any loyalty to the guy as he tries to rebuild the team in the way that he wants.  If Fletcher wanted to move on, I think he could do so without hurting the Flyers' image for UFAs.

 

20 hours ago, King Knut said:

Nothing I see suggests that to me, but we'll see.  I'm glad you have faith there's chutzpah lurking beneath the surface.  I hope it's got some thinking behind it.  

I don't think he's afraid of making moves.  Pretty sure he will have the backing of his bosses to do so.  Like you, I question the wisdom.

 

20 hours ago, King Knut said:

Just not sold on the Q thing myself.  Just not clicking for me.  Something about it feels wrong.  Like it's over cooking the stew a bit... throwing in too many ingredients.  

Not sure how I feel about him.  I do think he improves this team in the short run, but I wonder how quickly the bloom comes off the rose.

 

20 hours ago, King Knut said:

TK is going to push, but he should settle for something similar to what Coots got.

Provo is likely to get a long term lock up deal like Nylander or Pastrnak

They might try locking Sanheim in to a similar term but for less $$ and see if he'll bite.

Laughton and Hartman should resign for a couple of million each.  

Don't think TK deserves Couturier money yet, but he will probably get close to it based on where the market is today.  Provorov should get locked up long term.  Can see Sanheim on a bridge deal, but maybe he signs longer.  Laughton would probably leave $$ on the table to stay.  Hartman should take whatever he's offered.  Don't see a lot of leverage for him.

 

20 hours ago, King Knut said:

I'm just not convinced Talbot will resign here.  Hey may.  But if he's offered a starting job somewhere, I'd have to assume he'd take it.  

Guess the question is: based on his performance in EDM, is someone going to give him a starter role?

 

20 hours ago, King Knut said:

I expect Raffl to resign.  I don't expect it will be a big deal.  He's useful and he was apparently really relieved when he wasn't moved at the deadline, so he's comfortable here.   There's always an off chance someone calls him on 7/1 and offers a ton of cash, but I doubt it.  

Probably, but I'd prefer not.  No slight to Raffl, but as discussed, the wings are probably going to get pretty crowded.  I suppose it's fine if he signs as a fourth liner, but I don't want him creeping up in the lineup.

 

20 hours ago, King Knut said:

The draft will be interesting.  Hextall had a knack for knowing the pick that somehow fell off everyone's radar a bit which is good for mid round picks, but his scouts were a big part of that and most of them are still around.  

This is actually me big concern with Fletcher.  I hope we don't see a drop off in terms of selecting players.

 

20 hours ago, King Knut said:

Trading a D man for a.... something is what I'll be curious about.  It's the most obvious trade and one he's likely to attempt just to get all the D men playing time.  Who do you risk though?  Or rather who do you send away now instead of knowing that Seattle will just take him for free next summer?  it's not an easy call by any stretch.  I do not envy the position and if it was me, I might not have the balls myself and just waive MacDonald and get them all as much playing time as possible, maybe platooning Myers and Morin for a while.

Ghost probably nets the biggest return.  Hagg's play has flagged a little, and in event we have probably seen him at his best.  If they want to bring in a vet, something will have to happen aside from just waiving MacDonald.

[OccamsRazor]

21 minutes ago, vis said:

I'd rather see Farabee in the top 9, much like Frost. 

 

I think they throw max incentive in the entry contract they will offer him to come out of college.

 

He has been more productive than Brady Tkachuk was his only year of college.

 

Farabee would be a huge boost to the skill, speed as well as the special teams he is very good on the PK to be such a young guy. 

 

The only thing that keeps him in college is if he would prefer to stay. 

 

24 minutes ago, vis said:

No slight to Raffl, but as discussed, the wings are probably going to get pretty crowded.

 

They don't have to have him but i find more value in what Raffl brings than Laughton.

 

But i think a 4th line of Raffl/Laughton/NAK would be a nice upgrade to the AHL one they have now.

 

Worse case if they signed a Panarin it would push Lindblom down the lineup maybe even to the 4th. Which if the left side is Panarin, JVR, Farabee and Lindblom that is a nice skill set of LWs.

 

Or if they didn't sign Panarin Giorux, JVR, Farabee and Lindblom would still be fine.

 

The goal is to eventually roll 4 lines and not have the 4th of scrubs like they have now.

 

Regardless i feel Farabee will come out of school. The PK could be deadly with Joel and Coots....

 

 

...kid has smarts beyond his years.

[vis]

20 hours ago, brelic said:

My biggest reservation about Patrick penciled in as 2C next year is the slow starts in these past two seasons. Granted he's young and had injuries to deal with, but the Flyers simply can't afford another season where their 2C takes until January to get going. Bringing in a legitimate 2C (preferable someone who has also played wing) will take some pressure off Patrick and allow him to grow into the role as 3C. Couturier did it for years until he was finally able to find those extra gears.

Fair about the slow starts.  They need to figure that out with him, which I think can be fixed.  I don't know that I'd let it dictate personnel decisions otherwise.  

 

20 hours ago, brelic said:

Add yet another coach in the mix - the third in less than a season - and likely the entire coaching staff, and I can see another slow-ish start as the team has to relearn and adapt to a different way of doing things.

I hope not.  They cannot afford a slow start.  

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, vis said:

Don't think TK deserves Couturier money yet, but he will probably get close to it based on where the market is today. 

 

I think he will sign a deal for around 5 mill per at least.

 

Somewhere what Teuvo Teravainen signed this year (5 year 27 mill 5.4 AAV). Alex Tuch got 7 years 33.2 mill 4.75 AAV. 

 

TK put up some good numbers even after being moved around a lot to start the year with Hak to start the year.

 

He has some good company production ise this year.

 

 

Not matter what dude will get a good contract. I would be good with a 5 or even a 8 year deal with him.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, vis said:

 

I'd rather see Farabee in the top 9, much like Frost.  Ratcliffe as well, though I don't know where he projects at the NHL level.  His 50G suggests top 9 as well.  I'd be a bit of a letdown for them both to log "plumber" minutes on the fourth line.  Again, though, not a bad problem to have.

 

 

It would require an utterly fundamental change in philosophy, but one I'd theorize Gordon might be more open to.  I'm not sure, but it's possible a Keefe type numbers guy could be open to it too.  Long story short, it could help as G, Jake and JVR all continue to head into their 30's under contract if they're not expected to play 23+ minutes a night.

 

Running four lines that can each log 13-17 minutes a night instead is something that challenges the conventional understanding of the game.  It's also not something most teams have the depth to try to pull off, but as we have all seen, depth is the thing that the Flyers need in order to compete at the next level right now.  

 

1 hour ago, vis said:

At first, I thought trading JVR wouldn't be a possibility, mainly because it may hurt the Flyers in terms of attracting future UFAs for fear of being traded.  But, JVR was Hextall's guy, not Fletcher's.  Fletcher doesn't need to show any loyalty to the guy as he tries to rebuild the team in the way that he wants.  If Fletcher wanted to move on, I think he could do so without hurting the Flyers' image for UFAs.

 

 

Honestly, I think they're already having issues because of the Hextall situation.  Fletcher doesn't get to just stand on his own here.  He essentially has to prove to everyone that Homer's not calling the shots.  Players, GMs and Agents may not hold anything against Fletcher, but they're not likely to be ready to do Homer any favors just yet.  Not until Fletcher can establish his independence.   I'm not sure unloading "Hextall's guy" would do that.  Might even backfire.  Regardless, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't get a decent return for him.

 

I don't know enough about FLetcher's history to know if he's pissed off anyone in the past himself, but I doubt it.  

 

1 hour ago, vis said:

I don't think he's afraid of making moves.  Pretty sure he will have the backing of his bosses to do so.  Like you, I question the wisdom.

 

 

I've said in the past, it's a tough call.  My feeling is that he is making such timid, small effect, low return moves because he came in, took a look at the situation and decided it merited standing on it's own for a while, but he knew Homer and Scott wanted to see some action, so he gave them what amounts to little more than paperwork moves, while Gordon took care of actually turning things around.

 

I still can't understand why it took so long for them to replace Hakstol and how it didn't happen the same day as Hextall.  The fact that it didn't still screams volumes about how knee-jerk and not thought three (and therefore I assume personal) it all was.  

 

1 hour ago, vis said:

Don't think TK deserves Couturier money yet, but he will probably get close to it based on where the market is today.  Provorov should get locked up long term.  Can see Sanheim on a bridge deal, but maybe he signs longer.  Laughton would probably leave $$ on the table to stay.  Hartman should take whatever he's offered.  Don't see a lot of leverage for him.

 

 

Coots had a two year bridge deal at 1.75 per.  I think TK gets more than that and in the climate of Nylander and Pastrnak he may push for more.  Not that he's remotely in that league yet, but the environment around the league is rife for it.  I think you're right though that a longer term deal for TK isn't necessary especially with the Frosts, Farabees and Ratcliffes of the world coming along.  

 

Not that I disagree, I don't have an opinion, but why do you think Laughton would leave money on the table to stay in Philly at this point?

 

1 hour ago, vis said:

Guess the question is: based on his performance in EDM, is someone going to give him a starter role?

 

I mean if he had been available two years ago, I certainly would have.  Am I going to blame Talbot for how god awful the Oilers are?  Realistically I cannot.  Hyperbolically, because I preferred keeping Stolarz, I have anyway for the purposes of Rhetoric.  Either way, he's going to make more than 2 million.  

 

1 hour ago, vis said:

Probably, but I'd prefer not.  No slight to Raffl, but as discussed, the wings are probably going to get pretty crowded.  I suppose it's fine if he signs as a fourth liner, but I don't want him creeping up in the lineup.

 

 

The only way Raffl creeps up the lineup is if someone gets hurt.

I like him for our 4th line.  I think a 4th of Him, Laughton and Hartman sounds just about right for the next two years.  

 

WIth Hakstol, you'd have to worry about them creeping up.  With Gordon, you definitely will not.  With Q... who the hell knows?

 

1 hour ago, vis said:

 

This is actually me big concern with Fletcher.  I hope we don't see a drop off in terms of selecting players.

 

 

The big question is whether Hextall was leaning on his scouts or some other connections and pray that it wasn't Pryor who had all the insider info.  

 

I forget the story so it's useless to bring it up, but I read somewhere that Hextall (or some close connection) just knew Farabee's high school coach at Kent who gave them the inside track on some details that pushed him onto their radar.  Those are the things that make the difference.   Of course, maybe Fletcher "screws up" and we end up with the next Petterson.  That'll work too.  

 

1 hour ago, vis said:

Ghost probably nets the biggest return.  Hagg's play has flagged a little, and in event we have probably seen him at his best.  If they want to bring in a vet, something will have to happen aside from just waiving MacDonald.

 

Ideally you can trade Hagg, but as you say you won't get much back for him.  But at least he's less likely to hurt you too bad when you play him.  

 

Tyler Myers   Provo

Ghost   Myers

P. Myers   Gudas

Morin

 

That way it also leaves you with more for when Seattle snipes one from us next summer.  

 

 

[King Knut]

24 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I think he will sign a deal for around 5 mill per at least.

 

Somewhere what Teuvo Teravainen signed this year (5 year 27 mill 5.4 AAV). Alex Tuch got 7 years 33.2 mill 4.75 AAV. 

 

TK put up some good numbers even after being moved around a lot to start the year with Hak to start the year.

 

He has some good company production ise this year.

 

 

Not matter what dude will get a good contract. I would be good with a 5 or even a 8 year deal with him.

 

I just wanted to take this moment to point out that Justin Williams is STILL playing almost every game and putting up decent numbers for NOT the Flyers.  

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I just wanted to take this moment to point out that Justin Williams is STILL playing almost every game and putting up decent numbers for NOT the Flyers.  

 

 

 

Yeah i got put on blast by i think it was rad when i said they should have signed him when Capitals let him go. Yes i love the guy.

 

He scored a huge goal for them last night with less than 2 minutes left to help them go on and win the game.

 

He has been huge for them and is going to help them end their playoff drought since....get this 2008-09 when they lost in the conference finals 4-0 to the Penguins!!!!

 

22 goals 25 assist for 47 points not too shabby for a 37 year old....guy plays with heart and a lot of Flyers could learn a lot from him.

[King Knut]

36 minutes ago, vis said:

Fair about the slow starts.  They need to figure that out with him, which I think can be fixed.  I don't know that I'd let it dictate personnel decisions otherwise.  

 

I hope not.  They cannot afford a slow start.  

 

I don't buy that about the coach.  Not if it's the right coach.  Look at the Islanders (who I think we all know are a not what they appear to be, but nevertheless) started hot and stayed decent all year despite losing their far and away best player and captain... all because they got a GOOD new coach.  

 

I'm not opposed to Gordon, though losing to these teams like Montreal and the Caps is making it easier for Fletcher to move on from him (though beating the Islanders and Penguins in the ways they did will make doing that harder).  

 

I am opposed to another question mark like Hakstol.  Hakstol IMHO proved that mining colleges and probably even Juniors is just too risky.  If you want to compete out of the gate, you need a guy who knows the NHL game or at least the pro game (i.e. AHL) inside and out.   Just being a good coach with a good head for the game isn't enough.  The NHL has enough quirks and gamesmanship tactics that other leagues just aren't in on.  

 

I'm far from a coaching talent expert, but from my limited knowledge, they've gotta be thinking:  Q, Keefe or Gordon.

There was someone else i was hearing scuttlebutt about at some point (it may have been Mike Van Ryn who was snagged as an Assistant for the Blues, but not promoted to interim when they canned their coach) but I just can't recall.  

 

 

[King Knut]

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah i got put on blast by i think it was rad when i said they should have signed him when Capitals let him go. Yes i love the guy.

 

He scored a huge goal for them last night with less than 2 minutes left to help them go on and win the game.

 

He has been huge for them and is going to help them end their playoff drought since....get this 2008-09 when they lost in the conference finals 4-0 to the Penguins!!!!

 

22 goals 25 assist for 47 points not too shabby for a 37 year old....guy plays with heart and a lot of Flyers could learn a lot from him.

 

They definitely should have signed him.  He's just one of those guys who can push you over the top some nights by sheer force of will.  I was on board to, but maybe not as vehemently.   What did this team need most going into this year?  Someone who friggin knows how to win and hates to friggin' lose.  Who is that more than Willy?  Dude's old enough to have maybe seen things for what they were and had a few words with Hextall about Hak before the poop hit the fan as well.

 

As a GM and as a coach, I would think having a guy like that around,  that age, with that resume, who can still produce like, that who has been everywhere and won just about everywhere he's been would be invaluable.    Almost a player/assistant coach type.

 

It's more or less what Rod turned into by the time Carolina was winning the cup and I feel like Willy's been doing that for the past few teams he's been on.  

 

God I hated when they dumped him and I hated Hitch for not figuring out how to utilize him (or Rusty).  Markov wasn't bad and the team needed help on the back end, but they still couldn't score!

 

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

 

So it seems the top goal scorers are Coots, JVR and TK.

[OccamsRazor]

On 3/19/2019 at 2:02 PM, King Knut said:

I'm just not convinced Talbot will resign here. 

 

Me either i am sure if he knew what he does now, no way he would have waived his no trade clause to come to Philly.

 

To me it looks like bad business, the man has moved his family and waived his right to stay put and then to be disrespected and not even given but one start looks very bad to me and makes me wonder how this looks to others around the NHL who are taking note.

 

To treat the man like this for no reason is embarrassing.

 

Show the guy some respect and let him play he isn't no worse than Elliott and who knows he might be better.

 

Never have we seen another GM pull a trade like this and not even play the guy they traded for.

 

If there has been I have forgotten it then.

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

42 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Me either i am sure if he knew what he does now, no way he would have waived his no trade clause to come to Philly.

 

To me it looks like bad business, the man has moved his family and waived his right to stay put and then to be disrespected and not even given but one start looks very bad to me and makes me wonder how this looks to others around the NHL who are taking note.

 

To treat the man like this for no reason is embarrassing.

 

Show the guy some respect and let him play he isn't no worse than Elliott and who knows he might be better.

 

Never have we seen another GM pull a trade like this and not even play the guy they traded for.

 

If there has been I have forgotten it then.

 

Makes it all the more odd because reports were that Fletcher was getting calls about Elliott on deadline day. 

 

There does seem seem to be something fishy about the whole thing.  

 

Meanwhile the Oilers arentnokaying Stolarz enough to be able to force him into RFA status either.  

 

This trade simply perplexes me. 

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So it seems the top goal scorers are Coots, JVR and TK.

 

His ceiling is a decent 3C, no more.  

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

His ceiling is a decent 3C, no more.  

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

20 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

 

 

I know, i know.  I saw earlier today. 

 

I’m only joking because I get to be that guy who told everyone here for years that Coots was a special player and he just needed the right kind of minutes and O-Zone starts.  

 

“70+ points easily” I would say. “You’re nuts”. “Pass the bong.”  “have another!” They’d say back to me. 

 

“Watch him go through the neutral zone, watch him watch the play.  He knows where to go, he just needs guys who can get there for him to find or to find him there.”  

 

I took a lot of grief.  And I couldn’t have been more right, so I’m gonna be that guy forever now.  Although even I didn’t think he’d put up PP numbers.  He didn’t seem to have that in his game.  

 

After last year (and his rookie year actually) i’m Desperate to see this guy back in the playoffs with more than a hope and a prayer around him. 

 

So so far my Hakstol prediction has been spot on too, but we’ll see about next year. 

 

[brelic]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Me either i am sure if he knew what he does now, no way he would have waived his no trade clause to come to Philly.

 

To me it looks like bad business, the man has moved his family and waived his right to stay put and then to be disrespected and not even given but one start looks very bad to me and makes me wonder how this looks to others around the NHL who are taking note.

 

To treat the man like this for no reason is embarrassing.

 

Show the guy some respect and let him play he isn't no worse than Elliott and who knows he might be better.

 

Never have we seen another GM pull a trade like this and not even play the guy they traded for.

 

If there has been I have forgotten it then.

 

 

 

 

 

Honestly, I think things are probably fine behind the scenes. Talbot’s a pro and knows how this works, and the organization brought him in as a mentor for Hart and as a backup who did have a few great seasons. 

 

My guess is that 3-4 games is not going to change Fletch’s mind about him. It’s too small a sample to be knee-jerk. They know what they got in Talbot, they know his stats. His friendship with Hart. Ideally he would have played, but injuries, timing, and maybe even being fair to Elliott for putting himself through a lot for this team over the past few seasons and giving him the reins until a change is needed. 

 

But it they also know that they can’t return with Elliott next year. Getting Talbot was a big sign too. 

 

I’m sure Talbot is fine. He knows he’s in the plans. 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

7 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I don't buy that about the coach.  Not if it's the right coach.  Look at the Islanders (who I think we all know are a not what they appear to be, but nevertheless) started hot and stayed decent all year despite losing their far and away best player and captain... all because they got a GOOD new coach.  

 

I'm not opposed to Gordon, though losing to these teams like Montreal and the Caps is making it easier for Fletcher to move on from him (though beating the Islanders and Penguins in the ways they did will make doing that harder).  

 

I am opposed to another question mark like Hakstol.  Hakstol IMHO proved that mining colleges and probably even Juniors is just too risky.  If you want to compete out of the gate, you need a guy who knows the NHL game or at least the pro game (i.e. AHL) inside and out.   Just being a good coach with a good head for the game isn't enough.  The NHL has enough quirks and gamesmanship tactics that other leagues just aren't in on.  

 

I'm far from a coaching talent expert, but from my limited knowledge, they've gotta be thinking:  Q, Keefe or Gordon.

There was someone else i was hearing scuttlebutt about at some point (it may have been Mike Van Ryn who was snagged as an Assistant for the Blues, but not promoted to interim when they canned their coach) but I just can't recall.  

 

 

 

It's not just a good head coach. It's the entire coaching staff that can make a difference. Part of what worries me is that they'll let Gordon walk, but keep the rest of the assistants in order to maintain 'continuity' for the players. That just doesn't work. If Fletcher hires a head coach other than Gordon, then said head coach has to be able to bring in his own staff, not just keep the coaches that are already here.

 

As for coaches, I'm looking around at the coaching ranks and there are a lot of good coaches that should be up for grabs. The AHL is littered full of good coaches that could come on board. Besides Sheldon Keefe, there's Benoit Groulx, Troy Mann (who has done a fantastic job running the Belleville Senators), Mike Vellucci, and Brent Thompson. There's also numerous assistants around the NHL that are ready to be head coaches. 

 

There are so many good coaches that the Flyers should actually have the pick of the litter so to speak. This is a team with cap space, a pipeline bursting with good to great prospects, a young team at the NHL and good veterans. Honestly, the Flyers should be every coach's wet dream so to speak. But, as mentioned, if Fletcher is going to hire a new head coach, he's got to can the assistants and let the new coach pick out his assistant coaches. That's the only way that this is going to work.

[King Knut]

13 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

It's not just a good head coach. It's the entire coaching staff that can make a difference. Part of what worries me is that they'll let Gordon walk, but keep the rest of the assistants in order to maintain 'continuity' for the players. That just doesn't work. If Fletcher hires a head coach other than Gordon, then said head coach has to be able to bring in his own staff, not just keep the coaches that are already here.

 

As for coaches, I'm looking around at the coaching ranks and there are a lot of good coaches that should be up for grabs. The AHL is littered full of good coaches that could come on board. Besides Sheldon Keefe, there's Benoit Groulx, Troy Mann (who has done a fantastic job running the Belleville Senators), Mike Vellucci, and Brent Thompson. There's also numerous assistants around the NHL that are ready to be head coaches. 

 

There are so many good coaches that the Flyers should actually have the pick of the litter so to speak. This is a team with cap space, a pipeline bursting with good to great prospects, a young team at the NHL and good veterans. Honestly, the Flyers should be every coach's wet dream so to speak. But, as mentioned, if Fletcher is going to hire a new head coach, he's got to can the assistants and let the new coach pick out his assistant coaches. That's the only way that this is going to work.

 

 Of course you’re right about the staff. 

 

I assume theres a better chance of that happening with a legend like Q than an AHL call up. 

 

I also worry that they might not bother with an AHL guy over Gordon unless he’s got some serious mojo (like back to back caldera or something).  

 

Oh to be a a fly on the wall in all those meetings and season ending interviews.  

 

Wtf is the deal with Knoblach anyway?  Is he just terrible?  

[vis]

21 hours ago, King Knut said:

Running four lines that can each log 13-17 minutes a night instead is something that challenges the conventional understanding of the game.  It's also not something most teams have the depth to try to pull off, but as we have all seen, depth is the thing that the Flyers need in order to compete at the next level right now.  

It could work.  I do think having an “energy” line is important and I’m not sure those types of players would fit that bill.  But I am also a fan of being progressive and looking for competitive edges.  This would be a unique approach.

 

21 hours ago, King Knut said:

He essentially has to prove to everyone that Homer's not calling the shots.  

I think GMs know the Flyers are buyers, regardless of who’s calling the shots.  I don’t see a need for him to prove he’s not Holmgren’s guy.  

 

21 hours ago, King Knut said:

Regardless, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't get a decent return for him.

Because of his GM skills or because of the player?  Honestly, I have been a little nonplussed about Fletcher’s deals.  I feel like he has left a tiny bit on the table each time he’s made a deal.  Maybe it’s his way of building some capital with other GMs.  

 

21 hours ago, King Knut said:

My feeling is that he is making such timid, small effect, low return moves because he came in, took a look at the situation and decided it merited standing on it's own for a while, but he knew Homer and Scott wanted to see some action, so he gave them what amounts to little more than paperwork moves, while Gordon took care of actually turning things around.

I really don’t know if there were any big moves that made sense to be made.  Actually, I fully expected a move to be made shortly after he was hired, and I’m glad nothing significant was done.  

 

21 hours ago, King Knut said:

I still can't understand why it took so long for them to replace Hakstol and how it didn't happen the same day as Hextall.  The fact that it didn't still screams volumes about how knee-jerk and not thought three (and therefore I assume personal) it all was.  

Agree 100%.  The hasty and clumsy press conference that followed made it even more apparent.  The blatant planting of stories painting Hextall as a dictator was so transparent.  They just needed some cover for what I believe was a personal conflict between Hextall and Scott.  Also, Hextall never, ever saw it coming.  I didn’t love everything Hextall did and don’t particularly mind that he’s no longer the GM, but the knee jerk nature of the move and ensuing smear campaign are troubling.  

 

21 hours ago, King Knut said:

Coots had a two year bridge deal at 1.75 per.  I think TK gets more than that and in the climate of Nylander and Pastrnak he may push for more. 

Gotcha.  Thought you were referring to Couturier’s current contract.  Don’t disagree with the above.  

 

Re: Laughton - He’s worked hard to establish himself, carve out a role and build trust here.  Think he’s well liked in the room.  He and the organization seem very comfortable with each other.  Feel like going elsewhere would require him to start over.  And who knows how that would go.  

 

21 hours ago, King Knut said:

Either way, he's going to make more than 2 million.  

Probably.  Which is fine for me.

 

21 hours ago, King Knut said:

I think a 4th of Him, Laughton and Hartman sounds just about right for the next two years.  

Generally OK with that.  I’d prefer a little more thump and jump on that line, but it’s sufficient. 

 

21 hours ago, King Knut said:

The big question is whether Hextall was leaning on his scouts or some other connections and pray that it wasn't Pryor who had all the insider info.  

Yeah, my concern is more with Pryor being gone.  If Fletcher doesn’t lean on scouts as much as Hextall, that could be a problem.  

 

21 hours ago, King Knut said:

Ideally you can trade Hagg, but as you say you won't get much back for him.  But at least he's less likely to hurt you too bad when you play him.

Being hurt by an individual player when we play him doesn’t bother me that much.  It’s more about how much has improved the Flyers.  In other words, I won’t care if Hagg scores a hat trick every time we play him, as long as the player the Flyers get helps them more than keeping Hagg did and the Flyers improve.  

 

21 hours ago, King Knut said:

Tyler Myers   Provo

Ghost   Myers

P. Myers   Gudas

Morin

Not sure how I feel about T. Myers, but he would be an improvement obviously.  Outside of Karlsson, not sure there is anyone else out there that I’d want.  I also worry that he’s going to end up with a ridiculous deal.  

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

On 3/20/2019 at 12:12 PM, King Knut said:

 

It would require an utterly fundamental change in philosophy, but one I'd theorize Gordon might be more open to.  I'm not sure, but it's possible a Keefe type numbers guy could be open to it too.  Long story short, it could help as G, Jake and JVR all continue to head into their 30's under contract if they're not expected to play 23+ minutes a night.

 

Running four lines that can each log 13-17 minutes a night instead is something that challenges the conventional understanding of the game.  It's also not something most teams have the depth to try to pull off, but as we have all seen, depth is the thing that the Flyers need in order to compete at the next level right now.  

 

I've mentioned something like that in the past with regards to running four lines that can play 15 minutes each night and people laughed and said it's not plausible because line 4 wouldn't be able to create the same scoring chances that line 1 or 2 would create, that the top talent plays on line 1 while the marginal talent plays on line 4, so you want to limit their ice time, etc.....

 

Looking at the depth the Flyers have from the big club and the prospects, creating four lines that can play 15 minutes a night shouldn't be a problem. I'll give Hextall his due - he really upgraded the prospect pipeline and built depth like there's no tomorrow. There's no reason why a fourth line of top prospects couldn't acclimate themselves and end up being solid contributors.

 

The question is, how many egos would be bent out of shape if you were to divide ice time evenly amongst all four lines. That I think would be the biggest problem in this equation. Guys wouldn't get the playing time they're used to, there's good chances they won't hit scoring bonuses, they'd miss out on All Star games and status, so that would also take a hit to the wallet. Plus you've got the fans that are paying big bucks to see the best players and the best players are getting the same ice time as a fourth line player is getting. That would be a huge problem.

 

I think this concept would work with an expansion club or a club that is doing a full on rebuild. I don't think this would work for a club that is trying to be competitive. 

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

The question is, how many egos would be bent out of shape if you were to divide ice time evenly amongst all four lines.

 

I think as long as you're winning the team would live with it.

 

Winning makes everything better.

 

Rolling 4 lines and the minutes don't have to be equal but it makes the great teams in the NHL so good because it doesn't require you to switch things up so much on the fly trying to hide certain weak lines you can trust your team out there vs anyone.

 

This also keep legs fresh towards the end of the season and into the playoffs.

 

And right now the Flyers basically have an AHL line for their 4th and not just saying that to joke they really did for a few games have Varone, Knight and Bailey out there.

 

It's not to RIP on them but you won't see Tampa with a 4th like that.

 

They basically have a 1st line, 2 2nd lines and a 3rd. They don't have a true 4th line their 4th line skillset is like most teams 3rd line no joke.

 

I hope the Flyers can get there one day.

 

It's also why I think Farabee will be on the Flyers 3rd line next year.

 

I think he will sign this offseason.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

The question is, how many egos would be bent out of shape if you were to divide ice time evenly amongst all four lines. That I think would be the biggest problem in this equation. Guys wouldn't get the playing time they're used to, there's good chances they won't hit scoring bonuses, they'd miss out on All Star games and status, so that would also take a hit to the wallet. Plus you've got the fans that are paying big bucks to see the best players and the best players are getting the same ice time as a fourth line player is getting. That would be a huge problem.

 

I think this concept would work with an expansion club or a club that is doing a full on rebuild. I don't think this would work for a club that is trying to be competitive. 

 

Well I think it wouldn’t even out so well.  With PP and PK time added in, it’ll never be even Steven for all 4 lines. 

 

of course thisnis all contingent on the kids being ready, but if that 3thbis predominantly kids, would anyone really complain if it spread out to something like this:

 

L1- 17-20

L2- 15-18

L3- 14-17

L4- 10-12

 

The idea would be in large part to keep everyone healthier for more of the year, but as a side effect it would enable that 4th line to slide up for injury fill-in duty and maybe have more of a prayer of being an effective contributor.  

 

I don’t think this is for next season, but maybe the one after that.  

 

Depending on what Fletxher does, next season the 4th would almost be in between a typical 4th and the kind of 4th I’m thinking of if it’s Raffl Laughts & Hartman.

 

long story short, the reason I’m suggesting it at all now is because I don’t know how Fletcher both improves the team this off season AND manages to get NHL time for the kids that are coming up through over the next few years, all on an NHL sized roster. 

 

Sure, Some won’t make it... but some are looking pretty good, and if even half of them are NHL players some day, there’s going to be a pimple line issue if They insist on a pure checking line. 

 

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

7 hours ago, vis said:

.  

 

>It could work.  I do think having an

>“energy” line is important and I’m not

>sure those types of players would fit that

>bill.  But I am also a fan of being

>progressive and looking for competitive

>edges.  This would be a unique approach.

 

I’m literally just looking to fit them on the roster in two or theee years after Fletcher makes what I assume will be some additions this summer.  Can’t see any other way than to either trade good players  or alter your approach to the 4th line. 

 

>I think GMs know the Flyers are buyers,

>regardless of who’s calling the shots.  I

>don’t see a need for him to prove he’s not

>Holmgren’s guy.  

 

We’ll see.  I just don’t think they’re going to be eager.  Hextall really was able to work his personal and professional relationships to his advantage and had a knack for getting guys and their agents to sign for team friendly deals.  Maybe Fletch will have all that too... but his track record in MN does not appear to include those things.  

 

>Because of his GM skills or because of the

>player?  

 

Honestly cant remember who we’re even talking about. 

 

>Honestly, I have been a little

>nonplussed about Fletcher’s deals.  I feel

>like he has left a tiny bit on the table each

>time he’s made a deal.  Maybe it’s his way

>of building some capital with other GMs.  

 

Maybe. Maybe it’s all they’d give him because theyve black balls Homer again. 

 

>I really don’t know if there were any big

>moves that made sense to be made.  

 

STONE   I KNOW maybe they weren’t trading him to the east... but as I’ve states elsewhere there were reasons to be in those calls beyond actually acquiring him now. 

 

>Actually, I fully expected a move to be

>made shortly after he was hired, and I’m 

>glad nothing significant was done.  

 

 

Me too.  I was very nervous. gives me a little hope he’s not a moron...but then again Talbot has played exactly one game so far.  

 

>Agree 100%.  The hasty and clumsy press

>conference that followed made it even

>more apparent.  The blatant planting of

>stories painting Hextall as a dictator was

>so transparent.  They just needed some

>cover for what I believe was a personal

>conflict between Hextall and Scott.  Also,

>Hextall never, ever saw it coming.  I didn’t

>love everything Hextall did and don’t><€particularly mind that he’s no longer the

>GM, but the knee jerk nature of the move

>and ensuing smear campaign are

>troubling.  

 

I mind that he’s not the GM just because he was obviously building toward this summer with this cap room. This has clearly been the time he was eyeing up to put the final pieces into the puzzle.  It’s like watching  7 years of game of thrones and never seeing the last season. 

 

 

>Gotcha.  Thought you were referring to

>Couturier’s current contract.  Don’t

>disagree with the above.  

 

I was, but then pivoted to his bridge deal.  Looking at Pasty and Nylander, Coots’s current deal is a distinct possibility for TK. 

 

>Re: Laughton - He’s worked hard to 

>establish himself, carve out a role and

>build trust here.  Think he’s well liked in

>the

>room.  He and the organization seem >very

>comfortable with each other.  Feel like 

>going elsewhere would require him to >start

>over.  And who knows how that would go.  

 

Depends.  More money on a team without a lot ahead of him in the pipeline like Phoenix might be tempting. 

 

Yeah, my concern is more with Pryor being

gone.  If Fletcher doesn’t lean on scouts

as much as Hextall, that could be a

problem.  

 

Being hurt by an individual player when we

play him doesn’t bother me that much.  It’s

more about how much has improved the

Flyers.  In other words, I won’t care if Hagg

scores a hat trick every time we play him,

as long as the player the Flyers get helps

them more than keeping Hagg did and the

Flyers improve.  

 

 

>Not sure how I feel about T. Myers, but he

>would be an improvement obviously.  >

>Outside of Karlsson, not sure there

>€anyone else out there that I’d want.  I >also

>worry that he’s going to end up with a

>ridiculous deal

 

I kinda like it because they can leave him unprotected next year and Seattle will either take him and alleviate the contract or won’t and we essentially can protect 4 guys.  In the mean time we get a really good d man in his prime while Sanheim, Provo, Myers and Morin come into their own even more.