Game 75: Islanders at Flyers; 3/23/19 @ 1

[Jam1986]

So did they stand up today?

[Poulin20]

4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

One of the more grotesque displays of incompetence from refs I've seen in awhile. 

 

Eric Furlatt and Kendrick Nicholson have simply been criminally bad. They're stealing their paychecks.  

 

Why don't officials get suspended or fired for being so incredibly bad at their job?  It's really hard to believe it's simple incompetence.  Clearly, bad calls. 

 

Furlatt is one of the worst of the worst.  Thankfully his partner in crime when it comes to horrible reffing Stefane Auger is retired.

 

In my spare time I am a linesman for tennis and worked my way up to the top of the pro level and can tell you that there are tons and tons of evaluations along the way.  I am sure all mistakes are documented and they are downgraded which likely keeps them out of the playoffs or only allows them to officiate the early rounds.  The problem we face in tennis is that there is a lot of work to be done and only so many people certified to do it so at times early in big tournaments you need to use people with lower abilities out there until the later rounds.  I’m guessing that while they are not fined or suspended for screwing up there are consequences such as shorter to no playoff assignments.

[ruxpin]

46 minutes ago, Poulin20 said:

 

Furlatt is one of the worst of the worst.  Thankfully his partner in crime when it comes to horrible reffing Stefane Auger is retired.

 

In my spare time I am a linesman for tennis and worked my way up to the top of the pro level and can tell you that there are tons and tons of evaluations along the way.  I am sure all mistakes are documented and they are downgraded which likely keeps them out of the playoffs or only allows them to officiate the early rounds.  The problem we face in tennis is that there is a lot of work to be done and only so many people certified to do it so at times early in big tournaments you need to use people with lower abilities out there until the later rounds.  I’m guessing that while they are not fined or suspended for screwing up there are consequences such as shorter to no playoff assignments.

Can they at least be castrated so they don't make baby refs? 

[Poulin20]

14 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Can they at least be castrated so they don't make baby refs? 

 

Some of the calls are so ball-less that I don’t think we have to worry about that!

[radoran]

So, let me get this straight. One team lost it's superstar captain for nothing and is sitting in a playoff spot, second in the division.

 

The other team has had a "core" together for six years and is five points out of a playoff spot with seven to play and it's "the ref's fault" that they lost - on home ice - being outshot 40 to 24 while scoring on the power play.

 

OK, then.

 

This team doesn't need excuses. This team needs to play better and be more consistent on a regular basis.

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, radoran said:

So, let me get this straight. One team lost it's superstar captain for nothing and is sitting in a playoff spot, second in the division.

 

The other team has had a "core" together for six years and is five points out of a playoff spot with seven to play and it's "the ref's fault" that they lost - on home ice - being outshot 40 to 24 while scoring on the power play.

 

OK, then.

 

This team doesn't need excuses. This team needs to play better and be more consistent on a regular basis.

I didn't actually say they lost because of the refs. I said the refs were horrifically bad. 

 

The Flyers were outplayed.  Being short most of the first five minutes of the game and inexplicably 2 men down for several minutes would help explain the shot count except that they didn't actually give up that many on the PK. 

 

Gotta be better in that situation and they have to own the fact they weren't. 

 

But the refs embarrassed themselves today. It was horrific. 

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, radoran said:

This team needs to play better and be more consistent on a regular basis.

 

Too late for that stick a fork in em dey done!

 

FORE!!!!

[radoran]

48 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

. I said the refs were horrifically bad. 

 

 

So was the team "fighting for their playoff lives" on home ice.

 

The key thing for me is you didn't say much about the Flyers' play. You talked about the refs.

 

Fine, the refs we're terrible. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

 

Without Carter Hart NONE of this "comeback from second worst in the league" happens and this "comeback" has gotten them all of five points out of a playoff spot.

 

They gave up 40 shots "fighting for their playoff lives."

 

Pinch me.

 

We now return you to "they'll be competitive in 3-5 years" already in progress for the past six.

[ruxpin]

14 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

The key thing for me is you didn't say much about the Flyers' play. You talked about the refs

 

Seemed like a valid journalistic decision. 

 

Honestly, which one was the news?  That a bubble team couldn't keep up a pace that was running equal to the president's cup winner?   Or the fact someone paid to at least watch the play at the puck brutally screwed up two separate calls in huge ways that caused 10 minutes of shorthanded time?

 

I've seen the Flyers lose before. I'm not sure I've seen what I witnessed from the refs today. 

[radoran]

54 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

. I'm not sure I've seen what I witnessed from the refs today

 

Leon Stickle says "hello"

 

If you're five points out of a playoff spot, at home, and the vaunted "core" is relying on a 20 year old goalie to even be remotely competitive, that's not on "the refs."

 

That's on a team that after SIX YEARS still isn't good enough.

 

I wish I was wrong.

[Howie58]

I watched the first period, then caught the 3rd when it was 2-2. 

 

World War II came to mind.  Specifically, the Battle of Midway.  On June 4th, 1942, we sank three Jap carriers in the span of five minutes and changed the course of the Pacific war. Today, we lost the game in 1:30 thanks to Josh Bailey skating through and around our D. I was quietly disgusted.  

 

It is a lost season.  And think about where we are in the standings, then think about today's opponent.  The Tavares-less Isles were supposed to suck.  The O and B were supposed to be an emerging powerhouse.  Robin Lehner...a semi-sieve in Buffalo.  He and Greiss look like  superstars.  I wonder about our team's ability. We can change coaches, GM's...WTF.  It is a sad state of affairs. 

 

 

[ruxpin]

Just now, radoran said:

that's not on "the refs."

 

Okay, but again just to be clear, I'm not arguing it is.

 

Refs or not, they were flat.  They spent entirely too much time in their own end and 5-on-5 the Isles owned them all game.  I'm not blaming the refs for the loss.  

 

I'm blaming the refs for being entirely and pathetically inept at their job.  I mean, cut them some slack if they miss something away from the puck or if they misinterpret something away from the puck.  But all of these things (the Hagg thing, Hartman, and Coots) were right at the puck.  Hagg and Hartman each 4 minutes for something they didn't do -- at the puck.  I swear if an Islander would have shot someone on Fifth Avenue right in front of one of these bozos, a Flyer would have gotten a syringe.  Then they watch--at the puck--Coots get run and crosschecked from behind head first into the boards and these two idiots stand there looking for a Flyer to pin it on.

 

My whole point to posting at all on this thread was simply to criticize the horrendous officiating and a league that repeatedly allows it to continue.  I'm not even claiming league bias or any of that nonsense.  I don't watch a lot of non-Flyers' games, but enough to know the atrocious officiating is not limited to games involving Philly.  But man, these people are employed to do one job.   At least watch the fricken puck and see what happens around it.  At the very least.   And these idiots today, I mean, get ONE thing right.  I'm surprised the Flyers didn't get a two-minute penalty for the national anthem.

 

The officiating didn't exactly help the Flyers, but the biggest problem today was that the Flyer players didn't help the Flyers.  The real shame of it is that the Flyers didn't give up anything on all of the shorthanded crap brought to you by dumb and dumber.  The Isles were 0-5.  The Flyers actually scored on one of two power plays.   Can we get a sarcastic "yay!"   The problem was they slept through 5v5.

 

I mean, it happens.   I'm not so upset about it because I actually never believed.  It was too big a mountain and other teams were still playing.  It was fun to watch the attempt (more fun than what we were watching previously and more fun than watching a tank), but at some point there just isn't enough run way.   Not for what is legitimately a bubble team.

 

All that said, I'm not blaming the refs for the outcome and never did.  I'm blaming the refs for doing a horrible job doing their job.  it's a lot more newsworthy to me than kvetching for the billionth time about losing a game or whatever.  The league needs to fix the officiating, including the dept. of player safety.  It's beyond a sick joke at this point.

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

And think about where we are in the standings, then think about today's opponent.  The Tavares-less Isles were supposed to suck.  The O and B were supposed to be an emerging powerhouse.  Robin Lehner...a semi-sieve in Buffalo.  He and Greiss look like  superstars.  I wonder about our team's ability. We can change coaches, GM's...WTF.  It is a sad state of affairs. 

 

 

The difference, honestly, is in the coaches.  Even granting that Gordon has done a decent job, the Isles started the season with a coach that ran a pretty good program in Nashville and just came off a Cup in Washington.  He played a system that used the strengths of what he had.  The Isles are not an offensive team and they're frankly horrible on the power play.   But he has them running a pretty good defense.  Enough that somewhat average goalies are successful.   Down the stretch, with the same players, etc., they've been badly listing.  The supposedly crap Flyers actually have a better record than them since what, January?    They lost a game.  They've lost what, 3 or 4 or 4 of 6 or something?   Yeah, they've run out of gas here at the end.   Yeah, they were within 5 points and today's game was an "unacceptable" effort, especially if taken completely in stasis.

 

They were too far back.

 

And the difference to me was a horrible coach and a GM who stuck with him.   I'm not looking at that roster in New York and believing they have a better roster or players that want it more or anything like that.  I'm hoping we're able to fix the coaching for next year.  I don't know what that looks like.  I don't know if it's Gordon or Q or Door #3.   From where I sit, the fact it's NOT Hakstol is already an improvement.   If not, that new coach will at least have all of next year because coach was this year.   Next year is goalie.

[radoran]

9 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

The league needs to fix the officiating, including the dept. of player safety.  It's beyond a sick joke at this point

 

You know I know this.

 

But the officiating sucks across the league.

 

Everybody plays with it.

 

The Flyers still aren't good enough to be better than a bubble team in a league with crappy officiating.

 

The actual Stanley Cup competitors are.

 

For me, that's what matters.

 

Losing to the Islanders at home outshot 40-24 with their playoff lives on the line is the story tonight.

 

Not "the refs suck".

 

If your mileage varies, that's fine. But one is a story about the whole league and another is a story about the Philadelphia Flyers.

 

And the Flyers' story ain't a good one.

[radoran]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

The difference, honestly, is in the coaches

 

The difference is they've now got TWO GUYS who have scored better then 25 in this league in their career.

 

Again, the 3-5 year window that's been open the past six years remains a 3-5 year window...

 

To me, that sucks.

[ruxpin]

16 hours ago, radoran said:

 

You know I know this.

 

But the officiating sucks across the league.

 

Everybody plays with it.

 

The Flyers still aren't good enough to be better than a bubble team in a league with crappy officiating.

 

The actual Stanley Cup competitors are.

 

For me, that's what matters.

 

Losing to the Islanders at home putshot 40-24 with their playoff lives on the line is the story tonight.

 

Not "the refs suck".

 

If your mileage varies, that's fine. But one is a story about the whole league and another is a story about the Philadelphia Flyers.

 

And the Flyers' story ain't a good one.

 

 

Yes, it's the story about the whole league.  That's what I've been saying. 

 

This:  "Losing to the Islanders at home putshot 40-24 with their playoff lives on the line is the story tonight."  is not my story tonight.  Big picture, it's one team lost and another won.   At the end of the day, the officiating still needs to be fixed.

 

We agree the Flyers are a bubble team.  I actually said that very thing.  That some teams are doing better than others in a league with crappy officiating--and that the Flyers aren't one that is "doing better"-- is a given, but it's not a reason to not fix the officiating.  

 

It's actually a reason why it's increasingly difficult for me to watch the league anymore.  It's become a joke.  But my original post wasn't even that.  It was simply, "my god, the idiots officiating tonight really don't deserve to have jobs."    I think there's room on the INTERNET (original typing had "idiot." gonna blame my phone) to make a comment about something that happened in the game that doesn't necessarily repeat "the Flyers aren't good enough" for the millionth time.

 

YMMV, so by all means, the horse isn't quite glue yet.

 

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

Again, the 3-5 year window that's been open the past six years remains a 3-5 year window..

 

We'll see, but I really disagree with this.   We're next year or the year after.

[radoran]

Just now, ruxpin said:

 

We'll see, but I really disagree with this.   We're next year or the year after.

 

Which has what has been said for six years.

 

Until this team shows me something more, I'm not convinced.

 

You honestly think they're on the level of Tampa or Washington in the next two year's?

 

Your mouth to God's ears, man.

 

The officiating "needs to be fixed" sure. But it's not like 30 new officials are just waiting in the wings to make the Flyers more competitive.

 

Show me on the ice. That's all I'm saying. Because I remember when losing to the Cup Finalist Rangers in seven was "a good sign" and that was six years ago.

 

Give me a reason to care and I'll sing along forever.

[OccamsRazor]

6 hours ago, Howie58 said:

I wonder about our team's ability.

 

Well that first Bailey goal Gudas got caught in the neutral zone and then losses the puck battle and then with no forwards making it back to help out Hart decides to look bad on a shot from Bailey he has to make that stop. He didn't. They go ahead.

 

Then the last goal goal they get caught again and then all Ghost had to do was prevent the pass going to the only guy who was back to take a shot and he never looked around to see where he was and then just let's Komarov set up the last goal.

 

Terrible play by Ghost and Hart was playing the shooter and wasn't prepared for that pass and shot and well....season over.

 

Play Talbot and Morin. Seriously.

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, radoran said:

You honestly think they're on the level of Tampa or Washington in the next two year's?

 

I have seen a few and even I have this...they need a vet defenseman to help out...but really is that it?

 

I mean the infamous Rick Wilson can't make these defensemen play better then what the f**k is it going to take pardon my french... but really is a vet what is missing?

 

Or could it just be the Flyers have assembled a bunch of dummies?

 

Asking for a friend.

[ruxpin]

8 hours ago, radoran said:

You honestly think they're on the level of Tampa or Washington in the next two year's?

 

How many years have each of those teams sniffed around the ECF?  I mean, how many years, how many coaches, how many tweaks did the Caps go through while being contenders before they finally became?  This is running on four years for the Lightning right? 

 

Probably next year. If not, then they're the following year until they're at the very least to that stage. 

 

I mean it was after that stage that Tampa was adding Point and Vasy, Miller and McConaugh, etc.   

 

Dominant like Tampa this year? No. But Tampa wasn't at this stage either.  Within the next two years we're at least Tampa of two years ago. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

How many years have each of those teams sniffed around the ECF?  I mean, how many years, how many coaches, how many tweaks did the Caps go through while being contenders before they finally became?  This is running on four years for the Lightning right? 

 

Probably next year. If not, then they're the following year until they're at the very least to that stage. 

 

I mean it was after that stage that Tampa was adding Point and Vasy, Miller and McConaugh, etc.   

 

Dominant like Tampa this year? No. But Tampa wasn't at this stage either.  Within the next two years we're at least Tampa of two years ago. 

 

Yeah since 2010-11 Bolts have underachieved quite a bit.

 

Hell even this year there has to be a shat ton of pressure on them after the regular season they have had.

 

Tampa 

 

2010-11 Lost in the conference finals

2011-12 No playoffs

2012-13 No playoffs

2013-14 Lost in 1st round.

2014-15 Lost in the finals

2015-16 Lost in conference finals.

2016-17 No playoffs

2017-18 Lost in conference finals.

 

Yeah close but no cigar.

[mojo1917]

Our seats were 2 rows off the glass behind the Flyers goal.

The Hagg play happened right in front of me, the Couturier hit happened within 10 feet.

Jake getting the 2 minutes for unsportsmanlike happened right in front of me...I couldn't hear what he said because of the glass... that is so weird, but he didn't curse via lip reading until after the ref raised his arm.

That officiating took the crowd right out of that game.  Other than to scream the refs suck there was no "lifting" the team. intimidating the Islanders because every Flyers fan in the arena was waiting for the PK to fail.

 

Also, as a player when you're stapled to the bench for the first 10 -12 minutes for whatever reason it isn't always easy to get into the game when you get the tap. 

the PKers were tired and the non PKers wanted to make things happen so badly they forgot their brains.

I saw so many passes to no one, overskated pucks, pucks bouncing over sticks...those guys played tight and the Islanders were disciplined. 

The second period was god-awful, they couldn't get anything going. 

Even after the 5-3 kill there was a little roar from the crowd but that was it. The Flyers were flat and had zero luck.

I'm with Ruxpin I do think they are not far away, I do think a guy needs to be added somewhere. I do think coaching should help.

 

I also think the fans could make that building way more intimidating than it is, I don' know if the passionate guys are priced out, I know I find it difficult to want to spend 400 for those seats and that day, I left that building hoarse though.

 

I watch Nashville and how that crowd lifts that team, our guys don't get that, our guys are young and could benefit greatly from it.

There were moments when the Islanders did look shook, and it was because of the noise, but it didn't last.

I know the players have to put out, so there's a chicken and egg situation, I know, it seems the majority of the people in that building are waiting for something bad to happen; Or were like the young adults sitting behind us and were there to set their plans for getting a good seat a club later that night. 

Mrs Mojo was disgusted that I did not beat the fat Islanders fan yelling a bunch of **** after the game, but he had his daughter with him.  I'm kidding of course, but the fact that that guy felt like he could act like that doesn't feel like much of a home-ice advantage to me.

 

It would be great if the Philly crowd could get to that place where teams don't want to come into our building again. 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Is it wrong for me to say that I'm happy about this loss? It's an eye opener as to just how badly coached this club is when it comes to even the basic fundamentals of the game. Referees certainly played a big part, but it just goes to show how far from contention this team really is. 

 

I'm hopeful of a full house cleaning in both Philadelphia and Lehigh Valley once the season ends and that who ever is brought in, there's an emphasis on fundamentals, break out plays and sustaining pressure in the offensive zone, and not just dump and chase and cycle. 

 

I also hope that whoever is brought in, that they are brutally honest in their assessments of all players. More important, I hope that whoever the new coach is, he holds EVERYONE to same standards and accountability. No more of the 'veterans get an easier time because they're veterans' mantra that plagues this club. No more of the 'we'll play young players, but only if they earn it and even then, we'll never play a younger player above a veteran because that's how we do things' garbage. Let the horses run and go from there.

 

The other thing I want to see is players fit the roles they're assigned. For far too long, this franchise has plugged squares into round holes expecting miracles. Find out every player's strength and weakness and base their role on the club around that. Some might be asked to do more, some might be asked to do less and that's a good thing.

 

Get the mess fixed. It's clear we have goaltending now. We have some good defensemen that just need experience and veteran hand to help out when things get tough. We have some really good forwards and some that are on the verge of breaking out in a good way. Let's find someone who can help maximize that.

[OccamsRazor]

22 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

I watch Nashville and how that crowd lifts that team, our guys don't get that, our guys are young and could benefit greatly from it.

 

You hit the nail on the head with the chicken or the egg talk.

 

The Flyers don't get that either.

 

In the last decade the Preds have missed the playoffs twice.

 

Nashville we're talking here.

 

Let that sink in for a moment.

 

So which came first?

 

I'm going to bet the ****** underachieving hockey.