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Lebrun: Suter is Flyers' #1 target


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@aziz

i can only go by my limited sampling of watching him vs us and the caps, I don't notice him in the defensive zone so that tells me he's not awful back there, he's not passing the outlet to the tape of the opposition and stuff like that, so by my eyeball test he's looked okay to solid defensively. i also think he'll get better defensively he's still pretty young.

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i also think he'll get better defensively he's still pretty young.

fair enough, i haven't seen a ton of him, either....but i'm not real sure where your confidence in his defensive development comes from, given that neither of us know much about him. what could you possibly base that on?

personally, i'd be worried about a guy who was recently a healthy scratch for careless defensive work and a -5 over the last month. if the idea is to improve the defensive posture of the team......

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@aziz

good points... full disclosure, i did a quick search for free agent defensmen and his name was on it, i thought he'd be intriguing to entertain his being a flyer, oh and my confidence for his improvement defensively rests sqarely on the chief craig berube . my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek as i type.

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Everyone talks about having too steep a price for Weber or Suter, but to be honest does anyone think that this Flyers team is a legit Cup contender with this goaltending and defense?

I know no one wants to break up team chemistry or anything, but we need a more balanced team and you have to give to get. If the Flyers can make a move I gotta support it.

i'm not sure the flyer's management is under the illusion that a stanley cup is in the cards this year. however, making a move for suter this year makes sense for a number of reasons. if the cost isn't too high, the flyers have exclusive neg rights before his UFA begins. that could save them some money if he enters the open market and they wanted to bid for him that way. it all depends on what we'd have to give up. if that cost is too high, then they stand pat.

it's just blatantly clear that this team is handicapped without a physical crease clearing D man who can play all kinds of minutes. if we could acquire that, we are that much closer to being a contender.

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Why not go after Weber then? Is price the only thing that makes Suter the better option?

Pretty much, yes. I'd rather go for Weber personally. If the Flyers can make that work under the cap for day one of the regular season, they can LTIR Pronger, and have that cushion.

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I was looking to next year with the expectation that Carle is out of the mix in that line up

Every Cup winning team has that #1 D man though I think both the Canes in 06 and the Pens did it by committe- Gonchar was the o guy and Orpik the tough guy.

I dont care if the D corps does it by tarot cards as long as we see a cup soon

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@PhillygrumpI don't believe even Suter will get us to a Stanley Cup this year. I say ride out the team we have, allow them to gain experience and to mature together next season. This Flyers team has already surpassed my expectations for this season. If we want to be a serious cup contender we have to be patient and foster our young talent. I am sick and tired of watching the Flyers trade away youth for quick fixes.

(please excuse my book-length response; I feel strongly about this subject and didn't edit)

Great post Hexy. I only wish Ed and Homer and the rest of the Flyers' brass could read it, have it tattooed on their foreheads so they don't forget it. PG made the point "you have to give to get" and of course he's right but I don't think we're there yet. Now is the time to - as Hexy said - "foster our young talent."

We already blew it in goal - shoulda woulda coulda... Bob starting 55-65 games, a journeyman backup to spell him...after his rookie season we should've continued the process of building a homegrown goaltender...but we didn't, that's water under the bridge. Let's not make the same mistake on defense.

Regarding the "young talent" that Hexy spoke of, take a look at just a few things from tonight's game, easily one of the Flyers' skaters worst nights this season:

- Harry Z led the team in hits with 4 despite getting the least amount of ice time (9:10).

- Couturier has now scored in 3 games in a row, 2 of them GWers. His GWer tonight followed his GWer in Carolina.

- Matt Read continues to look sensational - even on an off night for the skaters. He defends well and carries the puck with purpose.

- Bourdon is excellent for his age; he plays with poise much more often than he plays loose. He is way ahead of the typical rookie D-man.

My point is simple - our rookies are exceptional - and I didn't even mention Schenn (or Zac, or Gus, Marshall).

This season should be about building character, chemistry, familiarity - in other words a T-E-A-M, now that we have most of the right pieces. It's never easy - even when you're getting the goaltending. It'll be harder for the Flyers because Bryzgalov is still so shaky. But he'll settle in or else Bob will steal his job for good, one or the other.

But for crying out loud let's not overcompensate for our shaky goaltender by bringing in a "stud D-man" who will supposedly 1) rescue our defense, and/or 2) make us "legit" Cup contenders.

Number 1 it won't work because Team D is more important than one guy could ever be, and number 2 we can't afford it - not unless you think our rookies are "dime-a-dozen" types.

We panicked and crowned Bryzgalov our "legit #1" by virtue of his contract not his play. Let's not make it worse by unloading the money truck at some other "savior's" doorstep. It won't help us nearly as much as investing in the things teams need to be successful, once they have most of the right parts: chemistry, stability, identity. Those are the "intangibles" players speak about when they're holding the Cup - "we never quit" "we play for each other" "we believed in ourselves." Those things don't just happen, clubs have to invest enough time with the same players or they don't ever take shape on a team.

If we can pry away Jack Johnson for JVR straight up, that's a win-win. But moving our young forwards, our Gus or MAB so we can sign a rental like Suter? Or worse, empty the store so we can bring aboard another 9-year, $8+ million man in Weber? That's going backwards and we've done enough of that.

Take another look at our 4th line - with Zac or without. Take a look at the career year Hartnell is having. See how even on an off-night, in an empty Nassau Coliseum our 2nd-year goalie steals us a game and our 4th line is again productive. There's something [good] going on with the Flyers this season, even with Brzygalov stinking up the net. We should build off what we've got not go searching for "missing pieces" that aren't even missing.

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How would we fit Suter cap wise.....and I'm a bit worried about what we would potentially give up to get him.

I'm not concerned because the only way he comes to Philly is if 1) Homer has spoken to him or his agent and he is willing to sign a new deal and 2) It would likely take either JVR or Schenn to get a deal done so salaries are essentially awash.

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Canoli! Good to see you bro. I liked your post as I agreed with it in many instances but disagreed in other areas.

I believe there is no need to panic but I do believe that an upgrade to the defense preferably a top pairing defenseman is essential for the team if not this year definitely next year.

Our goaltending has been shaky at times but I attribute that in part to lacking a mean SOB who will clear the crease, block shots, and make opposing forwards pay for coming to the net. Right now we really only have Bourdon who is physical type player.

So if you are Homer do you make a trade to upgrade the defense without filling that number one spot? There are all the rumors out there many involving JVR. Does trading JVR for someone like Schenn, Jack Johnson, or Seabrook get us closer to winning the Cup? I think they would definitely improve our chances and make the team stronger but I still don't think that pushes us over the top. Johnson and Seabrook will give you 35 - 40 points a season but Johnson is not the strongest guy in the defensive zone and has some horrible +/- stats. Chicago really doesn't need another young talented forward as they are loaded with them. So in my mind Johnson and Seabrook are out.

Suter would be my 2nd choice. I am not concerned about the cap as he and JVR's salary are awash and Homer would not make a trade of that magnitude without first knowing he could sign Suter. He has a stronger overall game then those players above. But I still don't think he is the guy that pushes us over the top. He would give us 35-40 points (likely more with increased PP time and a more open system then the Preds) but isn't as physical as Schenn.

Any of those players noted above would improve the team and be able to play 20 minutes a night.

But if the Flyers are truly committed to winning it all they have to inquire about what it would take to get Weber. Nashville might be more willing to trade Weber due to his contract and the fact they have some issues with 3 or 4 defensemen either being RFA's or UFA's. But we get a guy capable of giving us 15-20 goals a year along with 30-40 assists. A leader who is still in his prime and a guy who plays with a physical edge. Unlike Pronger when we acquired him, Weber will be a stud for the next 7 seasons. So while it might be unlikely I would hope the Flyers would atleast inquire about him. If they want Kimmo, JVR and a first round pick do you make that deal?

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Hmm, The question about subtracting a top 4 guy from the D along with a 1st and a player.

Lets looks at whats left then-cap space and who is already in the house

and are we talking whats left this year or next year

Weber -whats he going to go for $$$

Mez

Coburn

Carle- is he gone due to capology,?????

Bordoun

Gustaffson

So then you have one stud and your 3/4 pairing and a pair of rookies

You still have to get a top 4 guy if Carle is gone and the cap hit of Weber will make that impossible by my guess

Unless Bryz verbally implodes and gets suspended removing his cap hit from the team ( as I was hoping for) I think they are capped out. He has already imploded his game, its the consistency of raw sewage. Ed Snider is probably regretting this already

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I mentioned this yesterday in the game chat kind of jokingly, but it's possible that the Flyers get two young defensemen.

1. Trade JVR for Schenn or Johnson. There might be more involved either way, but that's the main crux of the deal. We can fit either player under our cap this year because of LTIR.

2. Waive Shelley ($1.1M). We also recovered Walker's salary, and just need to make sure he's not on the team next year ($1.7M).

3. Let Carle go at the end of the season.

4. Buyout Pronger or Bryz.

5. Sign Suter or Weber.

6. Win Cup.

Seems like a simple formula to me :)

Ok, kinda facetious, but really, with some creative maneuvering, there would be a way to add two younger but future/current top pairing guys.

I think JVR is the logical trade bait because of his underperformance (despite having a career year statistically).

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I don't think anyone here wants to throw away one of our prospects/rookies for just a rental of Suter. IMO, i think any trade for Suter would be only if we're sure we can sign him to a contract.

You know Homer will find a way to sign a extension if he does trade for Suter/Weber. When has Homer not resign a player he trades for?

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