2019 Off-Season

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

With the 2018 - 2019 season ending last night, it's time for Fletcher and staff to get to work right away on fixing the on ice product. First order of business needs to be replacing the entire coaching staff in Philadelphia and Lehigh Valley. It's time to address the coaching quickly so that off-season preparations as to what kind of system the Flyers will play, what players should be assigned what roles and what players need to work on can be started.

 

Next order of business is deciding who stays and who goes from the main roster. That's going to be a big task at hand and depending on some of the moves that will be made, it's going to leave a lot of people upset (I expect at least two, maybe three fan favourites gone and possibly their first, unless they somehow get into the top 20). I expect that they have a list of free agents they're going to push after hard (even though I don't think he'll sign here, Panarin will probably be on that list as will a guy like Erik Karlsson) and I expect that they have a list of players they are targeting via trade (I'm looking at Jacob Trouba or one of the Carolina defensemen in Slavin or Pesce).

 

Another order of business is going to be player injuries and who gets surgery this off-season. I expect that there are going to be several players going under the knife (I'm looking at Provorov and his shoulder in particular) and that could hinder some of the off-season moves. That might also save guys from being dealt if they're recovering from surgery.

 

I expect the hammer to drop starting on April 8. There's no reason to keep people dangling if they aren't part of the plan going forward. I'm expecting the club to make a monumental shift in another direction this off-season. This could make for a real crazy ride.

[OccamsRazor]

21 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I expect that they have a list of free agents they're going to push after hard (even though I don't think he'll sign here, Panarin will probably be on that list

 

Yes I figure he will just use Philly as leverage for to drive his price up is all.

 

Is Trouba an upgrade over Ghost?

 

I can't say yes for sure.

 

I wouldn't mind the lower tier guys like Hayes and Dzingel.

 

I would love to trade Jake but that will never happen.

[ruxpin]

Yes, scrub the coaching staff.    And make sure that includes the goaltending coach.   I think Dillabaugh is horrible.  

 

Outside of that, I'm wary.

 

I don't actually want Eric Karlsson and don't think he's what the Flyers need.    Plus, he's becoming injury-prone.  I can see the Flyers doing this kind of idiotic move given that Holmgren is back in charge and Fletcher has a history of stupid signings.  But I don't want him.

 

I highly doubt we're even in on the conversation with Panarin.   I don't think Philly is a landing spot for him.  I don't even think he'll use Philly as leverage.  I think he'll use some other team that way, but the team has to be plausible for the leverage strategy to work.   Panarin is a pipe dream, and a poorly-targeted one at that.  My priority has to be RW, C, and D.  Not necessarily in that order but pretty much evenly across.  

 

I don't actually want Trouba, either.  Let's avoid the spoiled, soiled, brats.   On ice, I think he's the type I'd want, though.

As far as free agent defensemen not named Karlsson, the pickings aren't great.   Tyler Myers and Anton Stralman among righ-handers.   Either helps, I think.  Among left-handers, Jay Bouwmeester, Jake Gardiner, Luca Sbisa.   If its' up to Holmgren, it's probably Jay Bouwmeester, but color me unexcited.  

 

Right winger free agents I like the Brett Connolly  idea.   He slots in really well at 3-RW but doesn't necessarily block someone like NAK or Wade Allison if one of them surprises.  Really surprises.    Gustav Nyquist, Zuccarello, or MAYBE Jordan Eberle (I said maybe.  I'm not a fan).  

 

For center free agents,  Kevin Hayes is my target.   I do not like Duchene.  Marcus Johansson, Brock Nelson are others that I wouldn't mind.   

 

The pickings aren't actually that deep.   The other thing that muddles this enterprise up in regard to free agents is the upcoming expansion draft.  Anything done needs to be kept with that in mind.

 

So, we're probably back to trades, which opens things up a bit more and makes guessing a lot more difficult.

I think it's clear that we're not replacing Jakub Voracek at right wing if we move him.  So the idea of trading him for a defenseman and simply replacing him in free agency isn't a strong one.  I mean, go ahead and trade him for a strong defenseman, but don't pretend we'll replace the right wing.    As much as I think Voracek has the brains of a sock monkey, there's a long walk between him and, say, Gustav Nyquist.   My list above was with 3-RW in mind.  There is no top 6 RWers available.  

 

But I try to move Voracek none-the-less.  The guy clearly wants out, to me.   Moving him, depending upon the return, would open up a bit more money.   Is it possible to lure Little Joe out of San Jose?

 

I've mentioned this a couple times but if Columbus loses in the first round, they may be ready for change.  They'll probably be losing Bob and Panarin.  And maybe Duchene.  So, seriously, I check in on Voracek for Atkinson. They're about the same age.  Voracek is more money but if Columbus loses all of those players, they'll have it.    And Voracek's deal is one less year.  The Flyers, meanwhile, end up with one more year of term, but $3M or so less against the cap/year.   Both teams move a member of a core that has proven unsuccessful.   And both players might need a change.   I've heard this nowhere, and no one here has reacted to it, but unless someone has a reason it isn't, I think it's a valid option.

 

Outside of that, I'm a little better at deadline deal prognostication because the options are a bit more limited.   I like @OccamsRazor's Hjalmarsson idea.  I'm okay with that.    He has a M-NTC and NMC, but I suppose that would maybe be workable.  

 

 

I don't know.  My priority, in order, is 3 RW,  RHD, 3C.    (Depending upon where Giroux is being slotted.  If he goes back to RW, this changes things a lot).

[mojo1917]

13 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

So, seriously, I check in on Voracek for Atkinson. They're about the same age.  Voracek is more money but if Columbus loses all of those players, they'll have it.    And Voracek's deal is one less year.  The Flyers, meanwhile, end up with one more year of term, but $3M or so less against the cap/year.   Both teams move a member of a core that has proven unsuccessful.   And both players might need a change.   I've heard this nowhere, and no one here has reacted to it, but unless someone has a reason it isn't, I think it's a valid option

I think this would be great, I also think there are many variables that need to happen for it to be plausible.

I like Cam Atkinson a lot, he kills us, I imagine there would maybe need to be a pick involved someplace too.

I do think they are going out in round 1 though, and if all the rats are jumping ship, this could be a nice move. 

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I think this would be great, I also think there are many variables that need to happen for it to be plausible.

I like Cam Atkinson a lot, he kills us, I imagine there would maybe need to be a pick involved someplace too.

I do think they are going out in round 1 though, and if all the rats are jumping ship, this could be a nice move. 

 

Yeah, I'm thinking it might take a pick, especially because Columbus has left themselves without many.  I mean, they have their own 3rd rounder and Calgary's 7th this year.  Yikes.

 

But I think they're similar-calibre players, with Atkinson being more of a shooter and Voracek being more of a paste-eater...er...play-maker.

 

The Flyers have a crap ton of picks.  We could toss a 2nd or 3rd into it and be okay.  The problem is I don't know that this is the type of deal that happens before free agent and the Blue Jackets are sure they're losing their other players.  Possibly.  If it is:  Voracek + 2019 3rd Round Pick (NJD) for Atkinson + 2021 5th Rd. pick.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Well we can forget about Quenneville coming to Philadelphia. Looks like he's going to be reunited with Dale Tallon in Florida. I wonder if the Flyers will look in the direction of Sheldon Keefe now.

[elmatus]

5 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Well we can forget about Quenneville coming to Philadelphia. Looks like he's going to be reunited with Dale Tallon in Florida. I wonder if the Flyers will look in the direction of Sheldon Keefe now.

 

Quenneville has said he doesn't want to go to a floundering team. He must think Florida is closer than we are to making some noise, which is entirely possible. If nothing else, they have a ton of high talent players who are just starting their prime years at this point. We on the other hand have a bunch of players exiting their prime years and who have a track record of not much to show for it. Seems like an easy enough choice.

 

I also imagine playing in sunny Florida has to seem appealing for the guy. Makes sense on both fronts to me.

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Quenneville has said he doesn't want to go to a floundering team. He must think Florida is closer than we are to making some noise, which is entirely possible. If nothing else, they have a ton of high talent players who are just starting their prime years at this point. We on the other hand have a bunch of players exiting their prime years and who have a track record of not much to show for it. Seems like an easy enough choice.

 

I also imagine playing in sunny Florida has to seem appealing for the guy. Makes sense on both fronts to me.

On the other hand, it seems odd for such a coach to want to go to a building at 10% capacity.  It doesn't matter what they put on the ice. 

 

I'm okay if he goes there. I've never been sold (though never fully in the "against" camp, either).  I really like a bunch of the players on the Panthers.  But floundering team? Talk about a floundering franchise. 

[elmatus]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

I'm okay if he goes there. I've never been sold (though never fully in the "against" camp, either).  I really like a bunch of the players on the Panthers.  But floundering team? Talk about a floundering franchise. 

 

You're right about attendance. Beyond that though, take 2010 out of the equation, and Philly hasn't exactly fared much better.

[tucson83]

16 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Quenneville has said he doesn't want to go to a floundering team. He must think Florida is closer than we are to making some noise, which is entirely possible. If nothing else, they have a ton of high talent players who are just starting their prime years at this point. We on the other hand have a bunch of players exiting their prime years and who have a track record of not much to show for it. Seems like an easy enough choice.

 

I also imagine playing in sunny Florida has to seem appealing for the guy. Makes sense on both fronts to me.

 

i really think if the flyers didnt sign jake and giroux i know fans love him but realistically they should have just gone to a full rebuild to try to get mcdavid or matthews, maybe we probably could have had joel q. the fact this organization will never do a full rebuild is the reason we are what we are.

[ruxpin]

56 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

You're right about attendance. Beyond that though, take 2010 out of the equation, and Philly hasn't exactly fared much better.

Oh, no doubt. That was strictly about floundering franchise in terms of being able to get anyone to pay attention. Odd that a decorated coach would go there. 

 

But in terms of on ice results vs. on ice results, I'm with you. 

 

And like I said, they actually do have some players I like.  If they do get Q and sign Panarin and /or Bob, then game on. 

[OccamsRazor]

7 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Well we can forget about Quenneville coming to Philadelphia. Looks like he's going to be reunited with Dale Tallon in Florida. I wonder if the Flyers will look in the direction of Sheldon Keefe now.

 

I like Keefe as an option he turned Sault St. Marie around who know what would have happened if McDavid wasn't with Erie then.

 

Pretty much why Knoblaugh is even a Flyer due to McDavid.

 

The reports I seen on Q just said it was close.

 

Man he will have his hands full in Florida they have missed the playoffs 16 of the last 18 years.

 

Yikes!

[vis]

8 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Well we can forget about Quenneville coming to Philadelphia. Looks like he's going to be reunited with Dale Tallon in Florida. I wonder if the Flyers will look in the direction of Sheldon Keefe now.

Says an awful lot about the Flyers' organization if this turns out to be the case.  Have to think that false start when Hakstol got fired played a part.  Absolutely embarrassing.

 

I don't think this can be understated: the Flyers losing out to Florida for Q's services is a complete travesty.  This should be a major wake-up call to this organization.  Sadly, it won't be.  I don't think management or the players have the self-awareness to realize that they are a joke.

 

Also, to be clear, I'm not saying Q would have solved all of the problems.  But, I do think he was the right guy to get the current group straightened out.  Even if you don't think Q was the right guy, you know he was highest on the org's wishlist.  And they lost him.  To Florida.  Let that sink in.

 

Looking forward to Boudreau/Yeo/Bylsma.

 

What are the chances of Babcock getting fired if the Leafs lose in the first round?  Or even Laviolette?

[vis]

Also, why hasn't Gordon been politely told to get the **** out?

[ruxpin]

41 minutes ago, vis said:

Also, why hasn't Gordon been politely told to get the **** out?

Because he's staying. 

[flyer4ever]

Anyone you bring in here if its just a tweak will succumb to the same level of mediocrity and passionless no character emotionless hockey we have watched for the past 8 years. The culture is broken. IMHO the leadership core group needs to be jettisoned. I have been a Giroux fan since he was drafted, he only fell in the draft because scouts couldn't see past his awkward skating style. He had a monster playoff in his draft year yet 21 teams mistakenly passed over him. However he is now a diminishing asset going forward and yet he is also the most valuable asset the team has. It would be good for the team and for Giroux to trade him to a team he would agree to go to and have a shot at a cup. Perhaps Vegas. 

I also would try and trade Ghost, Hagg, Gudas. Perhaps acquire a guy like Schmidt from Vegas, still young and hungry, good skater and a physical player. Maybe you can get Larsson from Edmonton, they are in cap hell and might want to even up the Talbot deal. I would even try and get Puljajarvi from the Oilers, he isn't happy there, big guy who can skate. 

Maybe Arizona would take on Voracek, they could use his offensive numbers and Tocchet can probably get him to buy in to what they are doing. Lawson Crouse would be part of a good return. 

Unfortunately I don't anticipate anything like this happening, they will overpay for 2 or 3 30 something UFA's and the brass will rejoice for sneaking into 8th next season. Then they'll draft a 160 lb non contact winger to go with the other 160 lb non contact wingers that are still in junior or with the Phantoms.

Sorry for going off the rails, it's just really hard to anticipate anything good happening here going forward. If you were a veteran coach or UFA would you come to Philly and play right now with the current state of dysfunction?

[mojo1917]

@flyer4ever

 

I don't think this is off the rails.  Going with a youth movement with a CMJHL coach, like Keefe could be what the team needs.

There was a time right after the lockout when they were ****, Holmgren made some good deals and got some good players and high character guys and the young guys sort of grew into the core but got drunk too much, now here we are. 

 

I would hate to see 28 play somewhere else, but that may be what needs to happen. There are a lot of other guys I'd like to see play somewhere else. I don't know if I would go as far as you though, I don't think Ghost is all the way broken, and with the other cats on the come, I think he can still be effective. 

 

I do think there are good players in the system, the NHL team is a mess. 

 

[ruxpin]

I really hope Fletcher and the Bobbleheads above him realize we're really right there and don't screw this up now.  It's one or two targeted moves to sure up the roster and a decent coach.  That's all.

 

I have a feeling they're going to blow s### up, and it's really unnecessary and likely counter-productive.

 

And this:  "Then they'll draft a 160 lb non contact winger to go with the other 160 lb non contact wingers that are still in junior or with the Phantoms" IS off the rails.  It's written by someone with no idea what is actually in our system nor understands how today's game is played (the latter for better or for worse).

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

It's one or two targeted moves to sure up the roster and a decent coach.

 

It would be nice to find a young gem who can add some of defense to this squad. Vet or not. A solid young guy who can just be put out to shut the other teams top pair down.

 

Go find an Erik Cernak type.

 

Hard to believe the Kings just gave this kid away for a gamble on Ben Bishop.

 

Who gives away a 6-4 225 lb right shot who is a solid up and coming two way defenseman...oh the guy who is part of the Flyers front office. 

 

Stevie Y still fleecing guys. Al the kid has done at 21 is play on the Bolts top pair.

 

Flyers need to find a guy like that to add to the weapons on the backend. I guess we can hope Morin can be that good soon.

[brelic]

9 hours ago, vis said:

Says an awful lot about the Flyers' organization if this turns out to be the case.  Have to think that false start when Hakstol got fired played a part.  Absolutely embarrassing.

 

I don't think this can be understated: the Flyers losing out to Florida for Q's services is a complete travesty.  This should be a major wake-up call to this organization.  Sadly, it won't be.  I don't think management or the players have the self-awareness to realize that they are a joke.

 

Also, to be clear, I'm not saying Q would have solved all of the problems.  But, I do think he was the right guy to get the current group straightened out.  Even if you don't think Q was the right guy, you know he was highest on the org's wishlist.  And they lost him.  To Florida.  Let that sink in.

 

*If* it was truly an even playing field, and Q considered all opportunities equally, then yes, I'd agree with you.

 

But we just don't know what's behind his decision. Could have been made a long time ago for reasons that have less to do with hockey and more to do with lifestyle, needs, and just what he feels is best for him and his family. I mean, honestly, if I didn't have any particular affiliation with any organization, and I could live in a warm climate over a cold one, the decision is pretty easy. 

 

9 hours ago, vis said:

Looking forward to Boudreau/Yeo/Bylsma.

 

No. No. And no. 

 

Honestly, if Boudreau becomes the next coach, I might not watch next season. I hate him as much as a person who's never met him reasonably can.

 

But also, I'm a Flyers fan. Not a Minnesota East fan.

 

9 hours ago, vis said:

What are the chances of Babcock getting fired if the Leafs lose in the first round?  Or even Laviolette?

 

I would love either one here. I'm not sure Babcock would get fired in a first round ouster, but Lavi might. 

 

[vis]

11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Because he's staying. 

[Violently pukes]

[mojo1917]

@ruxpin

 

I have zero faith in anyone in the decision making chain in this organization.  

 

I could see nothing of consequence happening or everything happening, I don't feel like this group is going to get whatever they do right.  So one or two moves and a coaching change is 3 chances to miss. I almost like their chances throwing things at the wall better than I do the couple of shrewd moves.  My impression of the front office is Kramer and Newman making sausage.

 

In another thread icehole is lamenting Mr Snider's passing. 

 

Things would be happening if Ed were still alive, Q would have to change his name to Q McDuck... and the Flyers would have their man.

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by mojo1917

[brelic]

5 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@ruxpin

 

I have zero faith in anyone in the decision making chain in this organization.  

 

I could see nothing of consequence happening or everything happening, I don't feel like this group is going to get whatever they do right.  So one or two moves and a coaching change is 3 chances to miss. I almost like their chances throwing things at the wall better than I do the couple of shrewd moves.  My impression if the front office is Kramer and Newman making sausage.

 

In another thread icehole is lamenting Mr Snider's passing. 

 

Things would be happening if Ed were still alive, Q would have to change his name to Q McDuck... and the Flyers would have their man.

 

 

I have zero confidence in Homer and Scott. 

 

I have a tiny bit more in Fletch only because he has yet to really do anything of consequence. By July, we'll either love him or hate him - I don't think there will be a middle ground. 

 

 

[vis]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

But we just don't know what's behind his decision. Could have been made a long time ago for reasons that have less to do with hockey and more to do with lifestyle, needs, and just what he feels is best for him and his family. I mean, honestly, if I didn't have any particular affiliation with any organization, and I could live in a warm climate over a cold one, the decision is pretty easy. 

I get that Florida has some things to offer.

 

But I think this organization, and much of its fanbase, believes the Flyers are a premier organization on the cusp of being a legitimate Cup contender with some NHL star power, promising youth in the pipeline and deep pockets to buy whatever it needs to make it happen.  Well, the organization just whiffed on its top target for its top priority.  What does that say about how Q views this team?  I get that Florida is nice whether and Tallon and he are buds.  If Q thought as much of the Flyers as they do themselves - and given the shitpots of money the Flyers could likely pay him over what Florida is paying him (even after taking into consideration of taxes) - don't you think he would have come here?  Point is, the Flyers organization needs to disabuse itself of the notion that it's a place people want to come.  Sorry, but they don't.  They haven't been in the hunt for a premier UFA in a long time (maybe that's a good thing; but the point remains...) and now the best coach on the market apparently didn't want to come here either.  Just terrible.

 

2 hours ago, brelic said:

No. No. And no. 

Agree, but I think it's going to be Boudreau.  And that will be disastrous.  I may prefer McLellan or Vigneult over him.

[vis]

10 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:pin

I have zero faith in anyone in the decision making chain in this organization.  

Sums up my feelings entirely.