mojo1917 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, radoran said: What we need from Ghost is what we need from the team in general - more consistency on a regular basis So more consistent, consistency then ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I'm not opposed to trading Ghost in a good ol' "hockey trade." Though, part of me does want to see what he can do under some different, experienced coaching. Anyway, the current roster of d-men is crowded, but also in need of an upgrade if the Flyers intend to be Cup contenders in the near term. No offense to Provorov, but he could use a legitimate top pairing partner. They also need a credible, veteran d-man who can steady the ship in the locker room (and on their own zone) when things get dicey. Maybe they can find a single player to be both the legitimate first pairing guy and calming veteran presence. So, based on what I perceive to be the Flyers' needs, one or two players among the current defensive crop have to be moved. Ghost is the likeliest candidate to be dealt. I would probably trade him for Kapanen with no problem. Would the Leafs? I mean, is Ghost really the kind of d-man they need? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I'm not opposed to trading Ghost in a good ol' "hockey trade." Though, part of me does want to see what he can do under some different, experienced coaching. Anyway, the current roster of d-men is crowded, but also in need of an upgrade if the Flyers intend to be Cup contenders in the near term. No offense to Provorov, but he could use a legitimate top pairing partner. They also need a credible, veteran d-man who can steady the ship in the locker room (and on their own zone) when things get dicey. Maybe they can find a single player to be both the legitimate first pairing guy and calming veteran presence. So, based on what I perceive to be the Flyers' needs, one or two players among the current defensive crop have to be moved. Ghost is the likeliest candidate to be dealt. I would probably trade him for Kapanen with no problem. Would the Leafs? I mean, is Ghost really the kind of d-man they need? Sorry for some reason this morning it won't let me quote a certain point so i highlighted the topic of response. I disagree i think that guy is Hagg. I think Gudas and Morin can replace what Hagg brings and Hagg doesn't have an upside to tap into. Where as we have seen Ghost's upside. Can he get back there?? I hope the new staff can get him back there. So combine what Hagg does bring and his very nice remaining year on his current deal i think he makes the perfect piece to move out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: So combine what Hagg does bring and his very nice remaining year on his current deal i think he makes the perfect piece to move out. I've got zero problem shipping out Hagg, but I don't think he's bringing much of significance back. As you, yourself note, Hagg "doesn't have an upside to tap into" which doesn't really give him a lot of value on the market. You're almost certainly not getting a "Kapanen" type player back in that deal without sweetening it significantly. What would you give up to get a "Hagg" type player? I'll wager not much. Certainly not Konecny and probably not even Lindblom. If you could even get back the 2nd he was in the draft, I might consider that a "win". Would you give up a 2nd to get a "Hagg" type back? I wouldn't ship Ghost out for a rental (a la Williams for Markov) or as a "guy needing a change of scenery" (Sharp) - but if you're going to get back something similar to what Crater (top six F, 1st, 3rd) or Richards (two top six guys, 2nd) brought I'd be open to considering it (especially if it's involving an established, not ancient, top pair vet defenceman). This isn't about "needing" to push Ghost out the door by any stretch - they don't "need" to move him at all. But you've pretty much got to give something of quality to get something of quality these days. And the Flyers' young D has quality depth and Ghost should bring back a significant piece (plus) if he's dealt. To be clear, I don't know that "Kapanen" by himself does it for me straight up for Ghost. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: I disagree i think that guy is Hagg. I think Gudas and Morin can replace what Hagg brings and Hagg doesn't have an upside to tap into. Yes, Hagg is movable as well. But I think Ghost is more likely to get a better return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 39 minutes ago, radoran said: I've got zero problem shipping out Hagg, but I don't think he's bringing much of significance back. As you, yourself note, Hagg "doesn't have an upside to tap into" which doesn't really give him a lot of value on the market. You're almost certainly not getting a "Kapanen" type player back in that deal without sweetening it significantly. What would you give up to get a "Hagg" type player? I'll wager not much. Certainly not Konecny and probably not even Lindblom. If you could even get back the 2nd he was in the draft, I might consider that a "win". Would you give up a 2nd to get a "Hagg" type back? I wouldn't ship Ghost out for a rental (a la Williams for Markov) or as a "guy needing a change of scenery" (Sharp) - but if you're going to get back something similar to what Crater (top six F, 1st, 3rd) or Richards (two top six guys, 2nd) brought I'd be open to considering it (especially if it's involving an established, not ancient, top pair vet defenceman). This isn't about "needing" to push Ghost out the door by any stretch - they don't "need" to move him at all. But you've pretty much got to give something of quality to get something of quality these days. And the Flyers' young D has quality depth and Ghost should bring back a significant piece (plus) if he's dealt. To be clear, I don't know that "Kapanen" by himself does it for me straight up for Ghost. Yeah I didn't mean for Kapanen it was just to free up a spot for the vet needed. And if you can get a 2nd for Hagg I would take it. Myself only I am not wanting to move on from Ghost right now. He has the feel of a haunting move like Sharp or JDub type we will regret after he goes somewhere and rebounds. Sure for a crazy overpayment I would move him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, vis said: Yes, Hagg is movable as well. But I think Ghost is more likely to get a better return. And he is the type (Ghost) that will haunt us for a decade. I want to give him a chance with the new staff. Hagg you won't get much for, a 2nd round pick and he is gone. He has the feel of a Roman Polak type career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: And he is the type (Ghost) that will haunt us for a decade. I generally don't care about that stuff, assuming the trade makes sense at the time. Can't worry about what a player becomes in the future. Never a guarantee that he would develop in that fashion here anyway. 25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I want to give him a chance with the new staff. I get this position, however. Part of me wants to see, at least in the first half of this season, how he plays. 25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Hagg you won't get much for, a 2nd round pick and he is gone. Sign me up for that. No issue there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 22 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: He has the feel of a haunting move like Sharp or JDub type we will regret after he goes somewhere and rebounds. Sharp (remember, now, I'm a fellow Catamount alum) had 15 points in 66 games as a Flyer. He didn't "rebound" - he emerged in a situation he was never going to be given the chance to have in Philadelphia. I was probably one of the few people at the time who was sad to see him go. Most were of the "Patrick who?" camp. Williams had 25 in 63 in his first season - and at age 19. It wasn't much of a "rebound" either as he was posting steady gains in points per game throughout. They mortgaged Williams to get that last bite at the pre-lockout apple. Also, too, he was "always injured" and "disappointing." Or something. #clarkelogic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, radoran said: Sharp (remember, now, I'm a fellow Catamount alum) had 15 points in 66 games as a Flyer. He didn't "rebound" - he emerged in a situation he was never going to be given the chance to have in Philadelphia. I was probably one of the few people at the time who was sad to see him go. Most were of the "Patrick who?" camp. Williams had 25 in 63 in his first season - and at age 19. It wasn't much of a "rebound" either as he was posting steady gains in points per game throughout. They mortgaged Williams to get that last bite at the pre-lockout apple. Also, too, he was "always injured" and "disappointing." Or something. #clarkelogic Sure point is moved to early and went on to help win Cups JDub has 3 and I hope adds another. Sharp was there for 2 in Chicago I can't remember if he was around for the 3rd. And for both they got Danny Markov and Matt Ellison and I forget what other scrap they got. Point is if you move Ghost it has to be for a key piece(s) not just another bite at the apple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: And for both they got Danny Markov and Matt Ellison and I forget what other scrap they got. In fairness, if the '04 team wins the Cup instead of losing the Bolts in 7, this is a different conversation. Or if Markov wasn't going back to Russia three years after the decided not to re-sign him because he was going back to Russia. Or something. I completely agree that they effed up on that whole situation. Sharp is more nuanced. That's 20/20 hindsight. He was a late third rounder who hadn't shown much at the NHL level (where they weren't playing him in a position to show anything and simply weren't going to play him in such a position as they had Crater and Richards moving up and into the 1/2 C position, not to mention Handzus and some guy named "Forsberg" in 05-06). 6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Point is if you move Ghost it has to be for a key piece(s) not just another bite at the apple. 1 hour ago, radoran said: I wouldn't ship Ghost out for a rental (a la Williams for Markov) or as a "guy needing a change of scenery" (Sharp) - but if you're going to get back something similar to what Crater (top six F, 1st, 3rd) or Richards (two top six guys, 2nd) brought I'd be open to considering it (especially if it's involving an established, not ancient, top pair vet defenceman). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 54 minutes ago, radoran said: He was a late third rounder who hadn't shown much at the NHL level (where they weren't playing him in a position to show anything and simply weren't going to play him Wasn't that Ken Hitchcock who we know hates playing young guys or am I misremembering this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Just now, OccamsRazor said: Wasn't that Ken Hitchcock who we know hates playing young guys or am I misremembering this? That's the popular theory (which I happen to disagree with) but if you've got Mike Richards, Jeff Crater, Michal Handzus and Peter Forsberg as centers up the middle (yes, they were playing Forsberg out of position because, well, I mean, what the hell else would you expect?) where do you "find time" to play the guy with 15 points in 66 games over three years? Sharp broke out as the 2C in Chicago. He was never going to get a shot at 2C in Philadelphia no matter who was coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 10 hours ago, radoran said: I appreciate the concept - and don't necessarily disagree. What we need from Ghost is what we need from the team in general - more consistency on a regular basis. the rest of the D and Voracek, less neutral zone and offensive zone lazy turnovers that end up in the back of the Flyers' net. Fixed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, radoran said: I appreciate the concept - and don't necessarily disagree. What we need from Ghost is what we need from the team in general - more consistency on a regular basis. As opposed to consistency on an infrequent or intermittent basis. Edited May 14, 2019 by ruxpin 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 24 minutes ago, FD19372 said: What we need from Ghost is what we need from the team in general - more consistency on a regular basis. the rest of the D and Voracek, less neutral zone and offensive zone lazy turnovers that end up in the back of the Flyers' net. So long as they do it more consistently on a regular basis, I'm okay with it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 These comments about consistency and effort and determination and grit and team work could apply to the entire organization for the past several years. If Fletcher and AV can make that happen with this group that will be awesome. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, FD19372 said: Fixed. Obviously if the team is more consistent in giving the puck away, that would be a Bad Thing. Gotstobehere was fifth on the team in giveaways last season. Third the year before. And second the year before that. Edited May 14, 2019 by radoran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 32 minutes ago, radoran said: Obviously if the team is more consistent in giving the puck away, that would be a Bad Thing. Gotstobehere was fifth on the team in giveaways last season. Third the year before. And second the year before that. Yeah, but look leaguewide, and the names you find in the top 20 when it comes to giveaways: Gaudreau. Burns. Doughty. Barzal. Draizaitl. Kucherov. Pastrnak. McDavid.... No, I'm not trying to compare skill levels, but players that handle the puck more, and try to make plays with it rather than dump it in and let someone go get it, are just going to have more turnovers by the nature of the type of player they are. It's not going to work all the time. But I'd rather a guy like Ghost try to make plays than keep it safe all the time. Same with Jake. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 18 minutes ago, AJgoal said: players that handle the puck more, and try to make plays with it rather than dump it in and let someone go get it, are just going to have more turnovers by the nature of the type of player they are. It's not going to work all the time. But I'd rather a guy like Ghost try to make plays than keep it safe all the time. Same with Jake. Absolutely. You'll notice I was responding to FD who was "fixed" my post to say that "the rest" of the D and Jake and the forwards need to turn it over less. This is true, but doesn't quite absolve Gotstobehere of similar responsibility... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 hour ago, radoran said: Absolutely. You'll notice I was responding to FD who was "fixed" my post to say that "the rest" of the D and Jake and the forwards need to turn it over less. This is true, but doesn't quite absolve Gotstobehere of similar responsibility... Agree to the bolded. To the rest: I'm tired and in pain and am not processing how I usually do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Just now, AJgoal said: To the rest: I'm tired and in pain and am not processing how I usually do. Sorry to hear - hope you feel better! I've been dealing with a nasty rhinovirus for over a week now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, radoran said: Sorry to hear - hope you feel better! I've been dealing with a nasty rhinovirus for over a week now... I had that. Lasted for about a week and a half, then lingered for another two. Then my wife got it, and got it worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 hour ago, AJgoal said: I had that. Lasted for about a week and a half, then lingered for another two. Then my wife got it, and got it worse. I helpfully passed it along to my wife, as well. She's working on giving it back to me. We do special things like that for our anniversary... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I know this kid could spend a year in the AHL but if he comes in and lights the lamp like i have seen him do this team could surely use a sniper who can find the twine with all their current set up guys they have now...so he could steal a spot before the season starts. His shot makes him a vital part of his chance...then his acceleration with the puck on his stick...who else can do it on the team?? Rookie of the year vs men is pretty huge he wasn't doing it vs 16 and 17 year olds. Tkachuk could handle it i think he can too. Guess we'll see soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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