2019 Off-Season

[OccamsRazor]

23 minutes ago, radoran said:

Right, and nobody here is looking to trade Giroux for a middling winger and a disappointing defenceman just because he's had bad playoff production in his past three playoffs.

 

See I don't think he is a middling winger or a disappointing defenseman.

 

But I get it I'm done have a good night.

[radoran]

49 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

See I don't think he is a middling winger or a disappointing defenseman.

 

But I get it I'm done have a good night.

 

A guy who couldn't stick on the second line and a guy who's probably a bottom half D man at best.

 

You like both guys. I get it.

 

They're not worth Johnny Gaudreau. Not even as a "starting point".

 

A "starting point" for a 25yo who just scored 36 goals and had 99 points is much higher than that.

 

The Flyers wouldn't take that as "a starting point" for Voracek and he's never sniffed 25 goals and topped out at 85 points and he'll be 30 next season.

[OccamsRazor]

I have change my mind after watching the Sharks last night and that was even before they came back and won.

 

If the Flyers are going to go out and give someone the money that is close to 9 or more a year maybe Erik Karlsson might be the guy.

 

The way he thinks the game and handle the puck is what these young kids on the Flyers need to learn how to do.

 

So if they have to make a huge splash in the free agent market maybe they try and sign this guy to pair with Ivan it will pay dividends to Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost and Myers.

 

And this will require a spot on the blueline to free up for his spot.

 

That i will let Chuck decide on who is will be but they could help turn into some forward help.

[mojo1917]

@OccamsRazor

I think the amount of money to get Karlsson to come to Phila would be exorbitant. More I think than say NYI would need to pony up or some other team that''s" on the rise"

 

Like ku-coo insane, Jeff Bezos, lotto-style money. Bryce Harper would feel poor money.... IDC it's not mine, but bringing that guy in could hamstring the club in other areas because of the amount of coi-mei 65's contract would account for. 

 

I would be bigly excited for 65 to play for my team, I can't help but think it's a cost-prohibitive pipe dream. 

 

It would be totally awesome though, he's been one of the best players in the league for years and that's including playing on robo-ankle. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by mojo1917

[OccamsRazor]

12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@OccamsRazor

I think the amount of money to get Karlsson to come to Phila would be exorbitant. More I think than say NYI would need to pony up or some other team that''s" on the rise"

 

Like ku-coo insane, Jeff Bezos, lotto-style money. Bryce Harper would feel poor money.... IDK it's not mine, but bringing that guy in could hamstring the club in other areas because of the amount of coi-mei 65's contract would account for. 

 

I would be bigly excited for 65 to play for my team, I can't help but think it's a cost-prohibitive pipe dream. 

 

It would be totally awesome though, he's been one of the best players in the league for years and that's including playing on robo-ankle. 

 

It could be but if I'm ponying up the coin I would want it to go to a teacher on ice like he could be.

 

If not are they going to hand 8+ mill to Tyler Meyers?

 

If so I would rather give 2 more mill to Karlsson and worry about the rest when we get there.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by OccamsRazor
roll the damn dice

[mojo1917]

52 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

If not are they going to hand 8+ mill to Tyler Meyers?

ugh that makes my belly hurt to think about. I hope not.

[OccamsRazor]

39 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

ugh that makes my belly hurt to think about. I hope not.

 

Yeah no telling what Fletcher has up his sleeve as far as ideas to "improve" the team could be.

 

It could be a big splash like Karlsson or a subtle move like a Anton Stralman.

 

Anything right now would be merely guessing which I hate doing...I'd rather have a clue or idea or even a rumor to run off of.

[vis]

Changing topics, and maybe this was discussed elsewhere, but I saw that Jay O'Brien is going to leave Providence.  

 

https://www.philly.com/flyers/jay-obrien-providence-college-hockey-flyers-2018-nhl-draft-20190424.html

 

Sounds like he had a rough year. 

 

Honestly, I'm a little worried about our offensive prospects at this point.  Frost and Farabee hopefully turn into top 6 players.  There's no telling what happens with Rubtsov (coming off a lost year) and Laberge (who I think  out of the picture).  I had hoped that Wade Allison would make the jump, but I thought I read he's returning for his senior year.  He had a rough year looking at his stats.  Know he was coming off an injury, but doesn't sound like he progressed this season.  I know Ratcliffe had a good year.  Hopefully he can make an impact, but I don't know if he's got the skating ability to thrive in the NHL.  What do we make of Strome and his skating ability?  

 

I don't know.  Just a little nervous about some of our guys.  

 

Maybe my concerns will be alleviated when Fletcher trades some of them this offseason for Jared Spurgeon....

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

36 minutes ago, vis said:

Maybe my concerns will be alleviated when Fletcher trades some of them this offseason for Jared Spurgeon....

 

 

I have suggested a trade for Jared Spurgeon but not for the prospects you listed.

 

I would trade Hagg for him.

 

But Farabee and Frost? Or Ratcliffe? No.

[RonJeremy]

On 4/24/2019 at 11:01 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah no telling what Fletcher has up his sleeve as far as ideas to "improve" the team could be.

 

It could be a big splash like Karlsson or a subtle move like a Anton Stralman.

 

Anything right now would be merely guessing which I hate doing...I'd rather have a clue or idea or even a rumor to run off of.

Is Stralman that much of a difference maker that he is going to help transform our defense? Is he a leader, a mentor, is he really the answer to help cut down our goals against? I dont think so...

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

25 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Is Stralman that much of a difference maker that he is going to help transform our defense? Is he a leader, a mentor, is he really the answer to help cut down our goals against? I dont think so...

Stralman is a great mentor. He's under the radar in that he's very steady, collected and calm on the ice. That's exactly what this group needs. There's lots of offense from the blueline, so no worries there. Stralman is like that additional coach on the ice and he candirect guys where they need to be. Those under the radar guys are very important. Now, I like flash and dash, but they need a solid hand who can keep everyone balanced. The Flyers desperately need a Timonen type of defender and Stralman can for that role. 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

4 hours ago, vis said:

Maybe my concerns will be alleviated when Fletcher trades some of them this offseason for Jared Spurgeon....

 

 

 

Why is everyone in love with Jared Spurgeon? He's going to be 30, had one year left on his contract and is INCREDIBLY small. He's not a need at this point. The Flyers already have a smaller defenseman in Gostisbehere. There's no sense in bringing someone in even smaller.

[OccamsRazor]

39 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Is Stralman that much of a difference maker that he is going to help transform our defense? Is he a leader, a mentor, is he really the answer to help cut down our goals against? I dont think so...

 

First I think transform is a little to strong a word.

 

Well there are no guarantees.

 

But yes I think he can help.

[OccamsRazor]

16 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

Why is everyone in love with Jared Spurgeon? He's going to be 30, had one year left on his contract and is INCREDIBLY small. He's not a need at this point. The Flyers already have a smaller defenseman in Gostisbehere. There's no sense in bringing someone in even smaller.

 

I wouldn't say love the guy.

 

But despite his size he can be a nice stabilizing force on the blueline too.

 

 

And the fact that he is only signed for one more year is why I would want him.

 

That way if he doesn't workout you aren't stuck with him worse case move at the dead  line next year if you have too.

 

But I am not giving up much for him.

[vis]

4 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Why is everyone in love with Jared Spurgeon?

I’m not.  It was a lame joke referencing the fears some have that Fletcher is going to empty the prospect pool to bring in vets, particularly those he has familiarity with.  

 

However, Spurgeon is a pretty decent dman. 

 

8 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I have suggested a trade for Jared Spurgeon but not for the prospects you listed.

 

I would trade Hagg for him.

 

But Farabee and Frost? Or Ratcliffe? No.

See above.  

 

Also, I don’t have interest in trading Farabee or Frost either.  I do think some of the lower tier prospects may get moved in a package.  

[tucson83]

you know i think the biggest failure on how hextall was building this team was not improving the defense core with the two picks last year, i mean it's easier to fill the defense with six elite players than it is with 12 forwards. i mean we could had a great d core coming in this year instead hextall takes forwards that could be bottom six players.

 

hextall should have continued to build the d core in the draft with the first round picks. i mean you look at teams that are playing so well in the playoffs is that they have defensemen taken in the high rounds.

Edited April 26, 2019 by tucson83

[mojo1917]

@tucson83

 

2013

R1- Samuel Morin-D

R2- Robert Hagg -D

R5 Terrance Amorosa-D

R7 David Drake - D

2014

R1-Travis Sanheim -D

R3- Mark Friedman -D

R7 Jesper Petterson-D

2015

R1- Ivan Provorov-D

2016

R5 Linus Hoberg=D

R7 David Bernhardt-D

2017

R7- Wyatt Kalynuk-D

2018

R2 Adam Ginning -D 

R4 Jack St Ivany-D

R5 Wyatte Wylie-D

 

I mean there were a lot of picks and guys in the system- the d corps prospect pool has been kind of bursting at the seams.

there's only 6 spots, If anything maybe he could have traded some prospects for help now but I think your take about not drafting D or more specifically using R1 picks on D  is not a good one. 

 

[RonJeremy]

On 4/25/2019 at 6:02 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

First I think transform is a little to strong a word.

 

Well there are no guarantees.

 

But yes I think he can help.

OK,  of all the UFA defensemen, when you factor in a reasonable contract and the type of guy we really need, what are your thoughts of Stralman as opposed to Meyers or someone else. I have not watched enough of these guys to really make an assessment....Or do you see us trading for a guy like Trouba. I didn’t put Karlsson in the mix because he is too expensive.

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

OK,  of all the UFA defensemen, when you factor in a reasonable contract and the type of guy we really need, what are your thoughts of Stralman as opposed to Meyers or someone else. I have not watched enough of these guys to really make an assessment....Or do you see us trading for a guy like Trouba. I didn’t put Karlsson in the mix because he is too expensive.

 

I would take Stralman because you can get him on a shorter cheaper deal.

 

Meyers will want a 6 or 7 year deal which I'm not wanting right now and for the 2nd part not sure how much he can help.

 

And that would be a long time to tie yourself to a guy and then him not fitting.

[ruxpin]

On 4/25/2019 at 5:54 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

Why is everyone in love with Jared Spurgeon? He's going to be 30, had one year left on his contract and is INCREDIBLY small. He's not a need at this point. The Flyers already have a smaller defenseman in Gostisbehere. There's no sense in bringing someone in even smaller.

Agree. I have no interest. 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Agree. I have no interest. 

 

Why not?

 

He could replace Ivan on the 2nd power play unit and let Sanheim play the left side on it.

 

He was 2nd on the Wild with 4 goals (11 points) on the powerplay which i know ain't setting the world on fire or anything but it would be tied with Ghost this past season  and 2nd in powerplay points among defensemen.

 

And if it isn't a fit he can be moved by the deadline next season...5.1 mill is easy to absorb.

 

Or if a kid like Morin or Myers steps up and shows they are ready then you trade him.

 

And despite his size he will play the body when he has to. His 91 hits would have been 3rd on the team only to Hagg, Gudas and Ivan.

 

He doubled up 6-4 Sanheim's hits (45) and is half a foot shorter.....so please if don't mind why not Spurgeon?

 

He also blocked 145 shots which would be good for 3rd on the Flyers behind Ivan and Hagg.

 

I like the guys game. But not sure the Wild won't to move him. 

[ruxpin]

16 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Why not?

 

Already answered.  For the reasons @BobbyClarkeFan16 stated.

 

I'll take it a step further:  Because I actually like nothing about him (on the Flyers, anyway).  He's the 3rd best defenseman on a team I have nothing good to say about.   All for in excess of $5M.  I realize only one year left, but I don't think he does anything for this team other than be in the way.

 

He also has a M-NTC.  Not sure he'd allow a trade to a team that should not have any interest in resigning him.  Except if he's one of Fletcher's draft picks.

 

And I'd rather Provorov on the PP to Spurgeon.  I really have less than zero interest in him on the Flyers.  I don't think he's anything the Flyers actually need.  He's not horrible or anything.  He's just also not particularly good.  He's probably more of what we have and the mid-range version of it.

 

For $5M .

 

No thank you.

Edited April 28, 2019 by ruxpin

[ruxpin]

7 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I would take Stralman because you can get him on a shorter cheaper deal.

 

Meyers will want a 6 or 7 year deal which I'm not wanting right now and for the 2nd part not sure how much he can help.

 

And that would be a long time to tie yourself to a guy and then him not fitting.

 

Agree on all of this.    Stralman is unexciting, right?  But I think along the lines of what we need, at least on a 2 year---maybe 3--basis.

 

Very much agree about Meyers.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

On 4/25/2019 at 1:27 PM, vis said:

Changing topics, and maybe this was discussed elsewhere, but I saw that Jay O'Brien is going to leave Providence.  

 

https://www.philly.com/flyers/jay-obrien-providence-college-hockey-flyers-2018-nhl-draft-20190424.html

 

Sounds like he had a rough year. 

 

Honestly, I'm a little worried about our offensive prospects at this point.  Frost and Farabee hopefully turn into top 6 players.  There's no telling what happens with Rubtsov (coming off a lost year) and Laberge (who I think  out of the picture).  I had hoped that Wade Allison would make the jump, but I thought I read he's returning for his senior year.  He had a rough year looking at his stats.  Know he was coming off an injury, but doesn't sound like he progressed this season.  I know Ratcliffe had a good year.  Hopefully he can make an impact, but I don't know if he's got the skating ability to thrive in the NHL.  What do we make of Strome and his skating ability?  

 

I don't know.  Just a little nervous about some of our guys.  

 

Maybe my concerns will be alleviated when Fletcher trades some of them this offseason for Jared Spurgeon....

 

 

 

I'm not worried about them. I get that there's a degree of nervousness with regards to O'Brien and the rough year he had and leaving Providence. If his agent is smart, he's directing him to go to Shawinigan and play against his peers. He's going to get tons of ice time and the move to major junior might just be enough to get his game back on track. He's also going to get used to the grind of travel and playing multiple nights in a row. 

 

As for Rubtsov, it was an unlucky injury. That's it. I've always said his game is better suited for pro hockey than major junior and that was turning out to be correct. I expect he'll come to camp (he was already on the ice practicing at the end of the year) and he'll go back to Lehigh Valley and pick up where he left off. Laberge also showed he has goal scoring capabilities during his time in Lehigh Valley after a major hip operation. He's probably going to take another year to rebound (look at guys like Giroux, Gostisbehere, Ryan Getzlaf, Braydon Coburn, etc....who have all had hip surgery and it took a year to get things back on track). As for Ratcliffe, he's got the skating chops for the NHL. I look at someone like Blake Wheeler, who isn't exactly fleet of foot, and I see Ratcliffe miles ahead of him in terms of skating. He's going to be fine. Ratcliffe's biggest issue is that he's 6'6 and 200 pounds soaking wet. He needs about 25 to 30 pounds on his frame and he needs to add that to his lower body (legs). His center of gravity is high so he'll be fairly easy to knock off the puck. That's why going to Lehigh is perfect for him. He'll be able to add the weight in an environment where there's no pressure with regards to winning a Stanley Cup and he isn't going to get exposed for his lack of weight like he would if he made the Flyers. Strome's skating is awful. But awful is better than what it was when he was drafted and that's when it was doomsday. If he can get to average, he'll be OK. Remember, Oskar Lindblom was a poor skater as well when he was drafted. Some things just take time. If Strome's skating never gets to average, well, the Flyers have a good player for Lehigh Valley.

 

As for Spurgeon, no. Just no. I can see signing Stralman or Karlsson as they won't cost assets. But I have no interest in giving up ANY assets to acquire Spurgeon, especially when he's much smaller than Gostisbehere. Ghost, Provorov, Morin, Sanheim, and Myers just need a good defensive coach and a good veteran on the back end to help them get their games together. That's why I'm such an advocate for Stralman. Every where he's been, young defenders became much better defenders after playing with him or around him. That's the kind of veteran the Flyers need. They don't need a world beater, they need a teacher. I thought about the Flyers acquiring a guy like Trouba or signing Karlsson or trading for someone like Parayko or Pietrangelo, but I think the Flyers are better off just taking their bumps and rolling with the young guys and bringing in a veteran that can teach them the finer points of defense. Between a good assistant coach that can teach defense (Mike Kitchen is one of the best out there) and a good defenseman that can play, that's what they need. I fear that if they make a big acquisition, everyone is going to expect that acquisition to be the latest in a line of players to put them over the top and when it doesn't go well, everyone will turn on them. Sometimes, the best acquisition is the under the radar guy who plays 19 to 20 minutes a night and just goes about their business in a professional and unassuming manner.

[IllaZilla]

17 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Already answered.  For the reasons @BobbyClarkeFan16 stated.

 

I'll take it a step further:  Because I actually like nothing about him (on the Flyers, anyway).  He's the 3rd best defenseman on a team I have nothing good to say about.   All for in excess of $5M.  I realize only one year left, but I don't think he does anything for this team other than be in the way.

 

He also has a M-NTC.  Not sure he'd allow a trade to a team that should not have any interest in resigning him.  Except if he's one of Fletcher's draft picks.

 

And I'd rather Provorov on the PP to Spurgeon.  I really have less than zero interest in him on the Flyers.  I don't think he's anything the Flyers actually need.  He's not horrible or anything.  He's just also not particularly good.  He's probably more of what we have and the mid-range version of it.

 

For $5M .

 

No thank you.

 

His MNTC is a list of ten teams he can't be traded to. What we've learned these MNTC lists tend to be Playoff teams. 

Since Philly hasn't been in the Playoffs for a while, they may not have made the list. No offense.

But we've also heard rumors that Fenton has been pitching a tent over William Nylander and is considering offering Spurgeon to Toronto for him...