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3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well damn there goes their Cup chances next year.

 

Where is Andreas Nodl that's the guy they need.

 

Hoping the Flyers can find a good 2/3 C, and Frost can start on the wing.

 

Raffl - Laughton - Hartman is 100x better as a 4th line than Knight - Varone - whomever.

 

I just don't want the Flyers to act out of desperation and give a guy like Brassard 6 years. To me it's ok if the right move is not making a move. If you can't make a trade that makes sense and the good FAs sign elsewhere, don't make bad moves to fill a need. See: MacDonald, Andrew.

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8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Offer them Hagg and go from there.

 

Sure I know they may want Ghost but his salary wouldn't help their situation.

 

Hagg''s 1.1 mill would.

 

Unless they just prefer draft pick compensation and all of Kadri's cap relief.

 

They'd surely want the 11th overall. Kadri was 7th overall and has produced well as an NHLer, so it's a fair compensation.

 

I'd think about it... I guess it depends on what other irons Fletch has in the fire. Is that the best way to maximize the 11th overall pick? In the last 20 years, there's only 3 #11 overalls that I would say had/have better careers than Kadri - Kopitar, Jeff Carter, and Filip Forsberg.

 

That means a roughly 15% chance that the 11th overall will be better than Kadri.

 

 

Edited by brelic

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10 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Raffl - Laughton - Hartman is 100x better as a 4th line than Knight - Varone - whomever.

 

Yes. NAK needs to be given a nice long hard long too.

 

He is ready he will not survive waivers to be sent down he no less needs to be the 13th forward.

 

13 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

I just don't want the Flyers to act out of desperation and give a guy like Brassard 6 years. To me it's ok if the right move is not making a move. If you can't make a trade that makes sense and the good FAs sign elsewhere, don't make bad moves to fill a need. See: MacDonald, Andrew.

 

Hell to the nah on Brassard.

 

Yes to not making a move to just make a move.

 

I think by next trade deadline we will know if Ghost is a keeper...if he isn't (and I'm saying he will) he could be a nice trade chip to load up with.

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15 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

They'd surely want the 11th overall. Kadri was 7th overall and has produced well as an NHLer, so it's a fair compensation.

 

I'd think about it... I guess it depends on what other irons Fletch has in the fire. Is that the best way to maximize the 11th overall pick? In the last 20 years, there's only 3 #11 overalls that I would say had/have better careers than Kadri - Kopitar, Jeff Carter, and Filip Forsberg.

 

That means a roughly 15% chance that the 11th overall will be better than Kadri.

 

 

 

No to the 11th overall. Sorry I don't feel that confident about it or desperate enough.

 

I will give up the 43rd pick.

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27 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

They'd surely want the 11th overall. Kadri was 7th overall and has produced well as an NHLer, so it's a fair compensation.

 

I'd think about it... I guess it depends on what other irons Fletch has in the fire. Is that the best way to maximize the 11th overall pick? In the last 20 years, there's only 3 #11 overalls that I would say had/have better careers than Kadri - Kopitar, Jeff Carter, and Filip Forsberg.

 

 

 

No. I'd move the 11th, but not for Kadri. And I'd trade for Kadri, but not with the 11th. Here are some other names for you:

 

Cam Fowler, Vladimir Tarasenko, Andrei Vasilevsky, Josh Morissey, Dylan Larkin, Travis Sanheim, Matt Barzal, Thomas Chabot, Dylan Larkin. Those are guys chosen between 11 and 20 from 2010-2015. And if you want to go later in the 1st, there are names like Boeser, Pastrnak... Are they all necessarily better than Kadri, no, but a player like that is more valuable to the team long term than Kadri.

 

And history is against a pick as valuable as the 11th being moved in any deal that isn't a move up/down. If Kadri is actually on the move, it won't require a draft asset as valuable as the 11OA. 

 

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7 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

And I'd trade for Kadri, but not with the 11th.

 

He is worth a shot with the 43rd pick but yes as I said too not the 11th.

 

I need more back for that pick.

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1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

 

No. I'd move the 11th, but not for Kadri. And I'd trade for Kadri, but not with the 11th. Here are some other names for you:

 

Cam Fowler, Vladimir Tarasenko, Andrei Vasilevsky, Josh Morissey, Dylan Larkin, Travis Sanheim, Matt Barzal, Thomas Chabot, Dylan Larkin. Those are guys chosen between 11 and 20 from 2010-2015. And if you want to go later in the 1st, there are names like Boeser, Pastrnak... Are they all necessarily better than Kadri, no, but a player like that is more valuable to the team long term than Kadri.

 

And history is against a pick as valuable as the 11th being moved in any deal that isn't a move up/down. If Kadri is actually on the move, it won't require a draft asset as valuable as the 11OA. 

 

 

As I said, I'd think about it and it depends on what else Fletch has cooking. 

 

I see this team as needing more established talent now rather than in 5 years (which is realistically when an 11th overall would be ready and established). You can probably get Kadri for something other than the 11th OA, which would be great. 

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4 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

As I said, I'd think about it and it depends on what else Fletch has cooking. 

 

I see this team as needing more established talent now rather than in 5 years (which is realistically when an 11th overall would be ready and established). You can probably get Kadri for something other than the 11th OA, which would be great. 

 

That's my point, and if you can't that's a hard pass. Based on history, paying a known 11OA for a player of Kadri's caliber is a significant overpayment. It doesn't matter what else Fletcher is doing. For comparison, Erik Karlsson didn't return a first until NEXT year's draft. There are mitigating factors there, but that's a recent trade we can look at where a significantly better player didn't return an asset that valuable.

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2 hours ago, brelic said:

They'd surely want the 11th overall. Kadri was 7th overall and has produced well as an NHLer, so it's a fair compensation.

 

The flip side is that they're not exactly dealing from a position of strength. What they "want" and what you give them are likely two radically different things.

 

Leafs have $8.79M in cap space with 10F and 5D signed with Marner and Kapanen needing new deals.

 

Also, too, Kadri has a MNTC - with a list of ten he can't be dealt to.

 

No way that gets the 11th overall out of me.

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12 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

The flip side is that they're not exactly dealing from a position of strength. What they "want" and what you give them are likely two radically different things.

 

Leafs have $8.79M in cap space with 10F and 5D signed with Marner and Kapanen needing new deals.

 

Also, too, Kadri has a MNTC - with a list of ten he can't be dealt to.

 

No way that gets the 11th overall out of me.

 

Apparently Dreger was on the radio saying Marner's camp isn't budging and is prepared to start team visits on June 26. This summer could be really interesting.

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I dont understand why when people discuss the 11th pick , or whatever number pick, they list who was picked at 11 in the past. Just because some team picked a lemon at 11in the past doesnt mean that draft position is not valuable today. You really have to look at 10- 25 or so. Look at who wasn't picked and could have been picked if the team had a good GM. Someone elses #11 is not necessarily our # 11.

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41 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

I dont understand why when people discuss the 11th pick , or whatever number pick, they list who was picked at 11 in the past. Just because some team picked a lemon at 11in the past doesnt mean that draft position is not valuable today. You really have to look at 10- 25 or so. Look at who wasn't picked and could have been picked if the team had a good GM. Someone elses #11 is not necessarily our # 11.

 

Adding...

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: Kopitar, Crater, B. Sutter, Ellis, Forsberg...

 

And, for that matter, Jarome Iginla

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.

 

That said, only 47 11th overall (of 56) have played in the league. And I find this surprising, of them only 37 have played more than 82 games.

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I go more by who is available at your pick, over the position number. In general the first 2 or 3 picks are set in stone, and most teams follow the consensus for those spots. After that it comes down to who you actually  pick, not the position.  Some good players get passed over and if you have good scouts you pick the right guys.  For example we went off the board with Sanheim and he is looking like a great pick. Someone else might have picked  stiff. The Islanders got lucky in drafting Barzal late in the draft. The Ranger have drafted complete lemons like Jessiman and Brendl with high picks.

 

Look at the 2003 draft, we got Carter at 11 , Rangers took Jessiman at 12 , and look at the great players picked after him that they passed on. I'll bet if they had the 11th pick they still take Jessiman. That draft slot was not the problem,  the team picking was the problem.  They took the only outright lemon in that draft, just look at all the great players taken, picking a stiff from that talent pool like hitting the lottery.The Flyers have done pretty well in the draft over the past 20 years in the first round and Hextall made some great picks in the later rounds. I was not impressed with Fletchers drafting in Dallas,  I hope Hextalls scouting staff has alot of say in who we pick. There should be some real good players available.

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10 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

He's added a little of the Downey/Carcillo to his game and has been suspended when his team has needed him.

I think he is on the edge and selfish.

 

Oh!  Yeah, in that context I completely get that.  I've wondered how much worse it will be in orange and black (I'm thinking a LOT).

 

Fair statement.

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7 hours ago, brelic said:

 

As I said, I'd think about it and it depends on what else Fletch has cooking. 

 

I see this team as needing more established talent now rather than in 5 years (which is realistically when an 11th overall would be ready and established). You can probably get Kadri for something other than the 11th OA, which would be great. 

 

I'm on board with the bolded.  I agree with others that I think I want more for that pick, though.  I'd definitely entertain Kadri as my 2C for the remainder of his term.   Hagg + 43rd would probably do it and I think I'd pull that trigger.  I'm thinking that if I'm trading the 11th that someone like Marner or a top pair defenseman needs to be coming back (for either of those, it would likely take more than just the 11th, but that's where I'd go with it).

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33 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I'm on board with the bolded.  I agree with others that I think I want more for that pick, though.  I'd definitely entertain Kadri as my 2C for the remainder of his term.   Hagg + 43rd would probably do it and I think I'd pull that trigger.  I'm thinking that if I'm trading the 11th that someone like Marner or a top pair defenseman needs to be coming back (for either of those, it would likely take more than just the 11th, but that's where I'd go with it).

 

For sure, and I’d agree that if Marner is in the conversation, it would obviously make sense to use the 11th in that scenario. But we’d never be targeting both. 

 

Say Fletch gets Marner for a package (that will disappoint some people), including the 11th OA. Then he adds Stralman at a reasonable cap hit. I’d be like, ok, I like it. It cost some good assets, and this team got much more competitive. 

 

Let’s also say that Fletch tries for Marner, strikes out. Tries for Duchene, Panarin, strikes out. Tries to negotiate for Hayes, but doesn’t want to meet the ask (Konecny or Myers)... wait is Hayes UFA? Either way, you know what I mean. Fletch tried and either struck out or didn’t want to pay the price. 

 

So now what? What? Erik Karlsson wants to take our offer? Ok great now we’re cooking. We just need a 2C. 

 

Toronto has Kadri and Nylander. They want the 11th overall only. Fletch takes it. 

 

In that scenario, I’d feel just like the first one. I like it. The team spent some assets and got much more competitive. 

 

That’s what we all want, isn’t it? 

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23 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

For sure, and I’d agree that if Marner is in the conversation, it would obviously make sense to use the 11th in that scenario. But we’d never be targeting both. 

 

Say Fletch gets Marner for a package (that will disappoint some people), including the 11th OA. Then he adds Stralman at a reasonable cap hit. I’d be like, ok, I like it. It cost some good assets, and this team got much more competitive. 

 

Let’s also say that Fletch tries for Marner, strikes out. Tries for Duchene, Panarin, strikes out. Tries to negotiate for Hayes, but doesn’t want to meet the ask (Konecny or Myers)... wait is Hayes UFA? Either way, you know what I mean. Fletch tried and either struck out or didn’t want to pay the price. 

 

So now what? What? Erik Karlsson wants to take our offer? Ok great now we’re cooking. We just need a 2C. 

 

Toronto has Kadri and Nylander. They want the 11th overall only. Fletch takes it. 

 

In that scenario, I’d feel just like the first one. I like it. The team spent some assets and got much more competitive. 

 

That’s what we all want, isn’t it? 

 

Let me think about that.  I really don't want to spend that on Kadri.  I've never been a huge fan.  I think in several respects, Kadri is the type that could do very well in Philly at 2C.   On the other hand, I could see him being completely neutered by the league because of his history and now he's wearing O&B (I know the last part is probably a bit silly).  

 

I threw Marner out there, but I think we both understand that's a pipe dream.  But if he's going to put Toronto over a barrel, maybe.

 

I don't really have a legit name to use the 11th on, but I think it needs to be in that territory.  And ultimately it probably needs to be 11th and prospect or young kid.   And I don't think a team like Toronto wants to go backwards for a pick.  They will need to use some salary, but they need cheap NHL player coming back.  Right?  I mean, one of their top 9 for a pick which--as you rightly pointed out--won't be ready for 3-5 years doesn't help their "win now."   

 

I think I trade for the 2C rather than do free agency.  I'm convinced Frost will be a very good center and am scared of blocking him.  I think a 2C free agent will want term and that will block.    But I'm tempted to say screw it and sign the 2C via free agency and spend your asset(s) on the scoring winger and/or the defenseman.   As soon as I type that, I'm immediately arguing the complete opposite with myself.

 

I was trying to look for a team that, unlike Tampa or Toronto, doesn't need a "win now" but needs assets and needs to shed salary.  I have nothing jumping off the page at me.   So, I guess wait and see what Fletch does. The only thing I'm completely sure of:  1/3 of the board will like it, 1/3 will hate it, and 1/3 will be "let's wait and see."

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2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Look at the 2003 draft, we got Carter at 11 , Rangers took Jessiman at 12 

 

Rangers also passed on Giroux and took Bobby Sanguinetti...HAHAHA!

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2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

I was not impressed with Fletchers drafting in Dallas

 

Uh well that is pretty good since he was never in Dallas.

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

On the other hand, I could see him being completely neutered by the league because of his history and now he's wearing O&B (I know the last part is probably a bit silly).  

 

Was thinking the same thing. He'll be suspended before it turns 2020 for sure in the orange and black.

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2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

I was not impressed with Fletchers drafting in Dallas,

Is there a Dallas in Minnesota?

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2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

I was not impressed with Fletchers drafting in Dallas

Me neither. But I was even less impressed by his pass blocking for the Cincinnati Bengals. 

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22 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Rangers also passed on Giroux and took Bobby Sanguinetti...HAHAHA!

Now Sanguinetti is making pizzas two blocks from MSG. True story.

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13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Was thinking the same thing. He'll be suspended before it turns 2020 for sure in the orange and black.

I've been thinking about Kadri as an option. However, he's too much of a risk unless we could just play him on the 4th line, and that's a hell of a lot of money for a 4th or even 3rd line player. I don't want his out of control nature, or dumb penalties and suspensions to rub off on the young players, and kill the team.

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11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Let me think about that.  I really don't want to spend that on Kadri.  I've never been a huge fan.  I think in several respects, Kadri is the type that could do very well in Philly at 2C.   On the other hand, I could see him being completely neutered by the league because of his history and now he's wearing O&B (I know the last part is probably a bit silly).  

 

I get it. I don't really want to spend that on Kadri either... I'm really just talking about scenarios that, if they happened, and given the context around it (and other moves), I'd be ok with if they make the team better.

 

11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I threw Marner out there, but I think we both understand that's a pipe dream.  But if he's going to put Toronto over a barrel, maybe.

 

Marner said they will be exploring other teams.

 

11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

I don't really have a legit name to use the 11th on, but I think it needs to be in that territory.  And ultimately it probably needs to be 11th and prospect or young kid.   And I don't think a team like Toronto wants to go backwards for a pick.  They will need to use some salary, but they need cheap NHL player coming back.  Right?  I mean, one of their top 9 for a pick which--as you rightly pointed out--won't be ready for 3-5 years doesn't help their "win now."   

 

Right. So would you do 11th overall and Farabee for Marner? Because I'll tell you what (and I know you know this, just using the royal you), we ain't getting Marner for Hagg and Lindblom.

 

I would wager a lot that Farabee will never put up 94 points. The 11th overall is a gamble. Sure, it could end up being a Filip Forsberg. It could also end up being a Jiri Tlusty or Luke Schenn or Tyler Biggs or Frederik Gauthier - all Toronto 1st round busts/disappointments.

 

But we end up with Marner. 

 

Would you do it?

 

11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

I think I trade for the 2C rather than do free agency.  I'm convinced Frost will be a very good center and am scared of blocking him.  I think a 2C free agent will want term and that will block.    But I'm tempted to say screw it and sign the 2C via free agency and spend your asset(s) on the scoring winger and/or the defenseman.   As soon as I type that, I'm immediately arguing the complete opposite with myself.

 

I hear ya. I'd love Duchene (I know you don't like him) but not for 7/8 years. I'd do 5. 

 

As for blocking a kid, ditto. But both Patrick and Frost need to actually prove they deserve more ice time and responsibility, and if/when that happens, they will find a way to give them what they have earned. 

 

So they could sign, say, Eberle or Hayes for 5 years, then trade for Trouba. Yeah, I'd be good with that. A bit underwhelming, but it makes the team better than it is now. 

 

11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

I was trying to look for a team that, unlike Tampa or Toronto, doesn't need a "win now" but needs assets and needs to shed salary.  I have nothing jumping off the page at me.   So, I guess wait and see what Fletch does. The only thing I'm completely sure of:  1/3 of the board will like it, 1/3 will hate it, and 1/3 will be "let's wait and see."

 

Vegas needs to shed salary. That's why I mentioned W Karlsson a while back. I'd love him in Philly.

 

Winnipeg is/was also in win-now and needs to shed salary. Nashville?

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