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Posted (edited)

According to Carchidi, Fletcher said they didn't contact Quenneville.

 

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Uh, what?  Good God, if true, that's even worse...

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18 minutes ago, vis said:

According to Carchidi, Fletcher said they didn't contact Quenneville.

 

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Uh, what?  Good God, if true, that's even worse...

 

Well that would be concerning so much for due diligence....SMFH.

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1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

@ruxpin

 

I have zero faith in anyone in the decision making chain in this organization.  

 

I could see nothing of consequence happening or everything happening, I don't feel like this group is going to get whatever they do right.  So one or two moves and a coaching change is 3 chances to miss. I almost like their chances throwing things at the wall better than I do the couple of shrewd moves.  My impression of the front office is Kramer and Newman making sausage.

 

In another thread icehole is lamenting Mr Snider's passing. 

 

Things would be happening if Ed were still alive, Q would have to change his name to Q McDuck... and the Flyers would have their man.

 

I don't think I can legitimately argue with any of that. 

 

Sadly, i have to agree. It's a shame because what I described is really all it would take if the Flyers weren't run by clowns. 

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1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

I have zero confidence in Homer and Scott. 

 

I have a tiny bit more in Fletch only because he has yet to really do anything of consequence. By July, we'll either love him or hate him - I don't think there will be a middle ground. 

 

 

Agreed. 

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1 hour ago, vis said:

I get that Florida has some things to offer.

 

But I think this organization, and much of its fanbase, believes the Flyers are a premier organization on the cusp of being a legitimate Cup contender with some NHL star power, promising youth in the pipeline and deep pockets to buy whatever it needs to make it happen.  Well, the organization just whiffed on its top target for its top priority.  What does that say about how Q views this team?  I get that Florida is nice whether and Tallon and he are buds.  If Q thought as much of the Flyers as they do themselves - and given the shitpots of money the Flyers could likely pay him over what Florida is paying him (even after taking into consideration of taxes) - don't you think he would have come here?  Point is, the Flyers organization needs to disabuse itself of the notion that it's a place people want to come.  Sorry, but they don't.  They haven't been in the hunt for a premier UFA in a long time (maybe that's a good thing; but the point remains...) and now the best coach on the market apparently didn't want to come here either.  Just terrible.

 

Fair points, and I agree that at this time, Philly probably isn't seen as a premier destination. 

 

That being said, one or two solid seasons and perspectives can change!

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23 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Well we can forget about Quenneville coming to Philadelphia. Looks like he's going to be reunited with Dale Tallon in Florida. I wonder if the Flyers will look in the direction of Sheldon Keefe now.

I'm sure Dubas doesn't want to lose Keefe because that's his guy from his days as a GM with the Soo Greyhounds of the OHL. So, it would be interesting to see if they don't give Keefe permission to talk to other teams and what Dubas' relationship is with Babcock. Babcock is in his 4th season with the Leafs, what happens if the Leafs get knocked out again in the first round, does Dubas do the unthinkable and get rid of Babcock for Keefe.

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I posted another thread on who's next if not Q.  My choice: Tippett.

 

High on the agenda for the coming summer--finding a decent backup/partner to Mr. Hart.  That way he isn't run into the ground. 

 

Next priority--a solid D-man to bolster the young folks we have now. 

 

Lastly....get us a sniper.  

 

Discussion of the center position is tough.  Do you think Patrick pans out?  I would flip a coin on that.

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15 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

Anyone you bring in here if its just a tweak will succumb to the same level of mediocrity and passionless no character emotionless hockey we have watched for the past 8 years.

 

Welcome to Philly!

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1 minute ago, Howie58 said:

I posted another thread on who's next if not Q.  My choice: Tippett.

 

High on the agenda for the coming summer--finding a decent backup/partner to Mr. Hart.  That way he isn't run into the ground. 

 

Next priority--a solid D-man to bolster the young folks we have now. 

 

Lastly....get us a sniper.  

 

Discussion of the center position is tough.  Do you think Patrick pans out?  I would flip a coin on that.

 

That's pretty much what we need.

 

Head coach

Truly competent top pairing defenseman

True 2C

Backup goalie

 

The hardest task is finding the right defenseman because it will be costly. 

 

Patrick right now is a 3C. I would say bolstering the center position is more important than getting a winger. Between Giroux, Voracek, JVR, Lindblom, and Konecny, we have strong talent on wing. 

 

Couturier, Patrick, Laughton is a weak top 3 down the middle. 

 

If Patrick breaks out next year, great. That makes us even more dangerous. But at least they won't go into the season depending on him having a breakout year. Give him time to develop and find his game. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

That's pretty much what we need.

 

Head coach

Truly competent top pairing defenseman

True 2C

Backup goalie

 

The hardest task is finding the right defenseman because it will be costly. 

 

Patrick right now is a 3C. I would say bolstering the center position is more important than getting a winger. Between Giroux, Voracek, JVR, Lindblom, and Konecny, we have strong talent on wing. 

 

Couturier, Patrick, Laughton is a weak top 3 down the middle. 

 

If Patrick breaks out next year, great. That makes us even more dangerous. But at least they won't go into the season depending on him having a breakout year. Give him time to develop and find his game. 

 

 

Agreed on all counts, Sir Bre:  My fear with Patrick is injury-proneness. The skills are there and hopefully there's more consistency with time.  

 

Laughton improved this year.  But I worry about his upside--we may think of him as a mild disappointment for a first rounder. 

 

Free agency connotes overpayment.  I just don't what you do about it unless you grow your own.  On the D-front, we are confronted with a big question about upside of the current gang.  Is this group as good as we've come to believe?  If so, an older stopgap D might work.  Otherwise...yes, we pay a bundle. 

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5 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Agreed on all counts, Sir Bre:  My fear with Patrick is injury-proneness. The skills are there and hopefully there's more consistency with time.  

 

Howie:

 

That's a good point... though he only missed 9 games his rookie year and 10 this year. The concern I would have about that are the head injuries. Didn't he have one in each of the past two years? 

 

I think he will be a solid player over time. In the meantime, though, Fletch would be wise to let him grow into the role and bolster the 2C position. 

 

Giroux's 3rd season is when he became a true top level player (23 years old). It's reasonable to expect that Frost would take that long to get to that level, if he ever does. So that presents another quandary - not 'waiting' for the kids and leaving holes, but also not over committing to a 2C (say, 7 years) that could become a very real problem in 3 years if you have Coots, 2C, and Patrick firing on all cylinders. 

 

Again, good problem to have, but may result in roster issues.

 

5 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

 

Laughton improved this year.  But I worry about his upside--we may think of him as a mild disappointment for a first rounder. 

 

Laughton was great this year! He outscored Patrick. Given what was available after Laughton in his draft year, he is turning out to be a solid choice, I'd say. He was fast, engaged, tenacious on the forecheck, and played whatever role the team asked of him. I definitely saw growth and an offensive upside that wasn't as visible before this season. I could see 40 points from him in a career year.

 

The only 1st round player that has clearly had more success from his draft year is Tanner Pearson taken 30th overall. 

 

5 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Free agency connotes overpayment.  I just don't what you do about it unless you grow your own.  On the D-front, we are confronted with a big question about upside of the current gang.  Is this group as good as we've come to believe?  If so, an older stopgap D might work.  Otherwise...yes, we pay a bundle. 

 

Not an easy task for Fletch, that's for sure!

 

Is Karlsson worth the investment? 

 

Or do you go the trade route, and risk opening up other holes to plug another?

 

 

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54 minutes ago, brelic said:

Not an easy task for Fletch, that's for sure!

 

Is Karlsson worth the investment? 

 

Or do you go the trade route, and risk opening up other holes to plug another?

 

 

I agree that Laughton does what he is asked to do.  He also sticks up for his teammates.  

 

Karlsson has a certain swagger that we haven't had for awhile. That has some value. 

 

Fletcher is damned by action or inaction. If he chooses wrong--fallout.  If he stands pat and says free agency hurts the team given a certain price (salary or trade), he is damned.  This is where Hakstol's patience becomes a roadblock, particularly for a team that hasn't won a playoff series in seven years.  

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24 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

I agree that Laughton does what he is asked to do.  He also sticks up for his teammates.  

 

Karlsson has a certain swagger that we haven't had for awhile. That has some value. 

 

Fletcher is damned by action or inaction. If he chooses wrong--fallout.  If he stands pat and says free agency hurts the team given a certain price (salary or trade), he is damned.  This is where Hakstol's patience becomes a roadblock, particularly for a team that hasn't won a playoff series in seven years.  

 

Well I think his first priority is ahead coach.

 

Find that guy and hopefully before the new year starts and go from there.

 

Then maybe he can say who has a chance to fit his system and maybe who doesn't.

 

That way you not acquiring guys you are not going to need and then turn around and have to move them.

 

Find out what current assets you have that he thinks he can utilize. It won't be perfect without him actually know them and seeing them play but hopefully it will help game some incite.

 

Do this and it is a good start...

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I thought Fletcher had a great press conference today. I was glad to see he spelled out what he thinks the team needs and I was glad to see he spelled out where the problems with the team were. 

 

As for coaches, I'm not overly concerned or upset that Quenneville isn't coming to Philadelphia. I was hoping he would, but if the relationship with Tallon, the love of horses, the warm Florida weather and the relationship with Viola were factors, you can't blame the man for not wanting to come to Philadelphia. No amount of money would change that and you can't blame Fletcher for just deciding it's not worth the time to chase after Quenneville (especially if Quenneville would use the Flyers to drive up his asking price).

 

We'll need to see what Fletcher does with the coaching hire. I feel confident it isn't Gordon (if it was, he would have named him coach) and that it isn't going to be one of Bylsma, Yeo or Vigneault. It's possible Bruce Boudreau is on the list, but I'm also thinking he's going to look at some of the AHL coaches (Keefe, Groulx, Eakins, Mann, etc.....). I do like that the next head coach is going to have a say in the assistants, so the assistants in Philadelphia better start looking for work elsewhere.

 

As for the players the club needs, the good news is that it isn't going to cost a fortune for what he's looking for in terms of prospects and picks. The club is also in great shape financially, so it's possible the Flyers do an Arizona thing and take on salary from a team in order to get a very good prospect or player that's about to break through.

 

There's no need to jump from a bridge and there's no need to go through a doom and gloom scenario. As for those who are going to judge Fletcher from his Minnesota days, I get it, and it's a rightful concern. At the same time, it's not as if their scouting staff has delivered like the Flyers staff have. If anything, I feel more confident because of the scouting staff that's in place in Philadelphia that Fletcher is going to be OK.

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3 hours ago, Howie58 said:

I posted another thread on who's next if not Q.  My choice: Tippett.

 

High on the agenda for the coming summer--finding a decent backup/partner to Mr. Hart.  That way he isn't run into the ground. 

 

Next priority--a solid D-man to bolster the young folks we have now. 

 

Lastly....get us a sniper.  

 

Discussion of the center position is tough.  Do you think Patrick pans out?  I would flip a coin on that.

Patrick will be fine. If he can remain healthy, he'll be better than Couturier. 

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23 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

As for coaches, I'm not overly concerned or upset that Quenneville isn't coming to Philadelphia. I was hoping he would, but if the relationship with Tallon, the love of horses, the warm Florida weather and the relationship with Viola were factors, you can't blame the man for not wanting to come to Philadelphia. No amount of money would change that and you can't blame Fletcher for just deciding it's not worth the time to chase after Quenneville (especially if Quenneville would use the Flyers to drive up his asking price).

I don't blame Queeneville either.  I don't blame Fletcher for not talking to him if Quenneville made clear he had no intention to go anywhere other than Florida.  I just think it speaks volumes as to the current status of the franchise.  Philadelphia is not a destination, no matter how much money Dave Scott and Comcast thinks it has to spend.  I'm sure that little stunt during the season with Quenneville didn't help things either.  We can talk about the youth coming up, the productive players currently and the desire to win.  But this franchise is in a little bit of disarray.  Who knows what the plan is this offseason?  And who knows what the hell you have to deal with in having Comcast/Dave Scott as your ultimate boss.

 

23 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

We'll need to see what Fletcher does with the coaching hire. I feel confident it isn't Gordon (if it was, he would have named him coach) and that it isn't going to be one of Bylsma, Yeo or Vigneault. It's possible Bruce Boudreau is on the list, but I'm also thinking he's going to look at some of the AHL coaches (Keefe, Groulx, Eakins, Mann, etc.....). I do like that the next head coach is going to have a say in the assistants, so the assistants in Philadelphia better start looking for work elsewhere.

Gordon would have been gone by now if he's not a possibility.  If they had zero intent on retaining him, they would have said so.  However, he's a failsafe in case all other options fall through.

 

I really don't know how I feel about AHL coaches.  I question whether this team will respect anyone lacking NHL pedigree.  I will say this: I give them a lot of credit if the are legit looking at those coaches.  It tells me they are taking the search seriously and not hiring on name alone.  But, as I said, I am not sure that type of coach will command the respect of this team or be capable of leading it. 

 

23 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

There's no need to jump from a bridge and there's no need to go through a doom and gloom scenario.

Not just yet...

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12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Patrick will be fine. If he can remain healthy, he'll be better than Couturier. 

 

But they need to find a #2 center for next year and let Patrick work as the #3 till he earns it.

 

He isn't ready. It would be a nice goal for him to shoot for.

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Well there goes Holmgren's vet defenseman off the board...now what?

 

 

BREAKING NEWS: The Blues have signed Jay Bouwmeester to a one-year contract extension worth $3.25 million

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18 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Patrick will be fine. If he can remain healthy, he'll be better than Couturier. 

 

that is a lot of pressure on the kid.  Even when Couts was not producing he was playing stellar defense.  *IF*, and I am not so sure, that he does exceed Couts that would be great for the team.  I am just not so sure he will ever be that type of defensive stalwart even when he is not scoring.  

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On 4/8/2019 at 11:46 AM, vis said:

According to Carchidi, Fletcher said they didn't contact Quenneville.

 

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Uh, what?  Good God, if true, that's even worse...

 

I know I posted something that contradicts that, but that's dumb if true. 

 

Then again, Carchidi asked Fletcher if he'd consider trading Hart in the offseason. 

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13 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Then again, Carchidi asked Fletcher if he'd consider trading Hart in the offseason. 

 

Why even ask that question? It brings no value. Fletch obliged him with a hypothetical saying if a team was stupid enough to offer up 4, 5 players and draft picks, then he'd be negligent in not considering it. But seriously, it's a nonsensical question designed for Carchidi to generate some BS clickbait title. 

 

That's not journalism. That's not even grabbing the low hanging fruit. It's just picking up the rotten stuff that fell on the ground.

 

I wish Fletch would have said something like, "You know, Sam, that's not even worth answering."

 

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22 hours ago, brelic said:

 

That's pretty much what we need.

 

Head coach

Truly competent top pairing defenseman

True 2C

Backup goalie

 

The hardest task is finding the right defenseman because it will be costly. 

 

Patrick right now is a 3C. I would say bolstering the center position is more important than getting a winger. Between Giroux, Voracek, JVR, Lindblom, and Konecny, we have strong talent on wing. 

 

Couturier, Patrick, Laughton is a weak top 3 down the middle. 

 

If Patrick breaks out next year, great. That makes us even more dangerous. But at least they won't go into the season depending on him having a breakout year. Give him time to develop and find his game. 

 

 

If you're looking for a right-handed top pairing defenseman, what about going the trade route and talking to Nashville about P.K. Subban. He has 3 years left at $9 million cap hit and Fletcher could offer something around Gostisbehere who has 4 years left at $4.5 million per year and a 2020 1st round pick. This would give Poile $4.5 million in cap space to resign Josi to a new contract. Thoughts?

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1 minute ago, Lindbergh31 said:

If you're looking for a right-handed top pairing defenseman, what about going the trade route and talking to Nashville about P.K. Subban. He has 3 years left at $9 million cap hit and Fletcher could offer something around Gostisbehere who has 4 years left at $4.5 million per year and a 2020 1st round pick. This would give Poile $4.5 million in cap space to resign Josi to a new contract. Thoughts?

 

Yes, I've mentioned Subban before since it appears there's a least a conversation to be had. He was rumoured to be available at the end of last season.

 

I mean, I guess Gostisbehere is the obvious choice, but he's already bested Subban's career high in points, so I would not include a 1st round pick in a trade. He has the potential to be every bit as productive as Subban in the right environment. I'd include a 2nd rounder at most. 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Yes, I've mentioned Subban before since it appears there's a least a conversation to be had. He was rumoured to be available at the end of last season.

 

I mean, I guess Gostisbehere is the obvious choice, but he's already bested Subban's career high in points, so I would not include a 1st round pick in a trade. He has the potential to be every bit as productive as Subban in the right environment. I'd include a 2nd rounder at most. 

 

 

I think that would be a fair trade.

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