Are Farabee and Frost the most dynamic skilled players we ever drafted

[RonJeremy]

They were solid picks, Carter was a bit of a puck hog and  shot too many times when there was no reason to, for a center he wasnt much of a play maker. Richards was a heart and soul player , a real old school Flyer. Maybe the last one ..too bad they partied too much.. 

[Digityman]

If I were running the show, I'd buy Briere a big house and pay his kids to move back in with him.   Then put Farabee and Frost in the home also.   It was was the perfect recipe for Giroux maybe it would work for those two.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, Digityman said:

If I were running the show, I'd buy Briere a big house and pay his kids to move back in with him.   Then put Farabee and Frost in the home also.   It was was the perfect recipe for Giroux maybe it would work for those two.

 

I always wondered if Danny B would be a good choice to coach the Flyers powerplay.

 

He was amazing on the power play.

 

With that said I know just because you were a good player doesn't mean you'll be a good coach.

[King Knut]

 

On 4/9/2019 at 11:23 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

So go finding a 2nd line center should be the first free agent priority.

 

 

So do you overspend on a Duchene whose teams all do better the minute he leaves or do you try to lure a soon to be retiree like Pavelski or Staal to do whatever they have left now and essentially to keep the seat warm for a couple of years until Frost or Farabee or Patty are ready let alone Ratcliffe, Strohm, O'Brien or Cates?

 

Kevin Hayes is a good player and he's been discussed here, but I think he's an ideal 3C and he's young enough to fetch himself a longer contract.  I see no reason to think bumping him up to 2C for two years until Frost or Patty is ready will accomplish what they need. Hayes only makes sense if he's ready to earn 3C money now and I'm sure someone else will offer him more.  

 

If I'm Fletcher, unless I know from his agent that Panarin is definitely going to sign in Florida (they will have trouble fitting him under their cap without a trade)  I still go for the Bread Man first.

 

Maybe you can lure a Pavalski or Staal to play 2C/3C for an affordable rate and use them to help bring up Patty/Farabee/Frost into the slot.

 

To me, Duchene just doesn't make any sense unless you're giving up on Patty, Frost and Farabee.  

He's looking for a long term deal at low end 1C salary and we'd be stuck with him for a long time. I'd rather give that money to Panarin.  Actually, I'd rather give the money to Stone, but that ship has sailed... straight into the desert.  

 

   

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

26 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Kevin Hayes is a good player and he's been discussed here, but I think he's an ideal 3C and he's young enough to fetch himself a longer contract.  

 

He was the Rangers 2nd line center and he is the 2nd line center for the Jets.

 

I think he can handle that role for a few more years.

 

But the plan would be maybe 2020-21 Patrick by mid season no less bumping him to 3rd center.

 

I'm good with that.

[King Knut]

7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He was the Rangers 3rd line center and he is the 2nd line center for the Jets.

 

I think he can handle that role for a few more years.

 

But the plan would be maybe 2020-21 Patrick by mid season no less bumping him to 3rd center.

 

I'm good with that.

 

I just don't see as how that solves the immediate issues and I don't think he's worth the investment signing him would require.

 

He's only 26, so he's likely looking for a good prime of career contract, so I think signing him likely saddles any team with a $6-7 million dollar 3C for a number of years.  

 

I think it's far more likely that he ends up with the Blue Jackets to replace Duchene or something like that.  

 

Again, I'd sooner get Panarin or Skinner to actually put up some points and let Frosty and Patty fight it out.  

 

Ideally I'd rather get Panarin and a Pavelski/Staal type to keep the seat warm for two years.  

 

It just doesn't make much sense to make any kind of a large investment in a 2C right now.

 

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I just don't see as how that solves the immediate issues and I don't think he's worth the investment signing him would require.

 

I don't know that there is a "solve" for the "immediate issues." I see Hayes as a guy who produced fairly well since his trade as a 2C and could be a 2/3 C going forward. Put him with two talented wingers and I think he can do fine as a plug in for a few years until unseated.

 

Everything depends on amount and term. Everything. And I'm not convinced Hayes will be available anyway.

 

They should absolutely NOT sign a guy for 6-8 years because he's the "best option this year." That's what's gotten them into trouble in the past. If you're making a long term commitment to a guy, it should be the guy you want not "the guy that happens to be available."

 

4 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Ideally I'd rather get Panarin and a Pavelski/Staal type to keep the seat warm for two years.  

 

If "that guy" is available, I agree he's worth a look.

 

I don't see Panarin coming here. Just don't. Had the same feeling about Quenneville.

 

And if Buffalo doesn't back the Brinks truck up for Skinner - and give him the extra year - I think they're nuts.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I just don't see as how that solves the immediate issues and I don't think he's worth the investment signing him would require

 

Well without knowing those parameters I can't say. But like anyone else the price and term could make me look elsewhere.

 

And letting a kid and Patrick fight it out would that be the best option for the team and the kid if he isn't ready?

 

It seems you are more worried about crossing the finish line before you have gotten  close to it.

[King Knut]

11 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

They should absolutely NOT sign a guy for 6-8 years because he's the "best option this year." That's what's gotten them into trouble in the past. If you're making a long term commitment to a guy, it should be the guy you want not "the guy that happens to be available."

 

 

It's a delicate balance.  If you don't appear to be doing "something" because the time isn't right, you might end up getting fired because fans don't necessarily pay attention to the salary cap and availability of free agents.  

 

11 minutes ago, radoran said:

I don't see Panarin coming here. Just don't. Had the same feeling about Quenneville.

 

 

I wonder what he wants.  People think he wants NY, but the rangers really can't afford what I expect he'll get.  The Islanders... I mean he'll be their centerpiece, but many of their other major players also need new contracts.  

 

11 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

And if Buffalo doesn't back the Brinks truck up for Skinner - and give him the extra year - I think they're nuts.

 

 

Agreed.  He should get his from the money they save losing Pominville.  However, anyone sick of playing in Buffalo won't get argument from me.  

 

[King Knut]

25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

And letting a kid and Patrick fight it out would that be the best option for the team and the kid if he isn't ready?

 

Well of course it's dependent on that.  Would you make a 6 year investment as a bet against them being ready in that time?

 

25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

It seems you are more worried about crossing the finish line before you have gotten  close to it.

 

The finish line is the whole point.  I'm worried about it and everything in between.

 

I happen to think we're much closer to it than most people here.  

[OccamsRazor]

13 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Well of course it's dependent on that.  Would you make a 6 year investment as a bet against them being ready in that time?

 

 

The finish line is the whole point.  I'm worried about it and everything in between.

 

I happen to think we're much closer to it than most people here.  

 

I would like 3 or 4 years.

 

It's like cars I would love the Lamborghini but after looking at the sticker price I may have to settle for Camero.

 

We'll see how it all unfolds.

 

For all we know like Q Hayes, Duchene and a few other all get scooped up real fast and they have to another way.

[ruxpin]

4 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I just don't see as how that solves the immediate issues and I don't think he's worth the investment signing him would require.

 

He's only 26, so he's likely looking for a good prime of career contract, so I think signing him likely saddles any team with a $6-7 million dollar 3C for a number of years.  

 

I think it's far more likely that he ends up with the Blue Jackets to replace Duchene or something like that.  

 

Again, I'd sooner get Panarin or Skinner to actually put up some points and let Frosty and Patty fight it out.  

 

Ideally I'd rather get Panarin and a Pavelski/Staal type to keep the seat warm for two years.  

 

It just doesn't make much sense to make any kind of a large investment in a 2C right now.

 

Unless we're trading JVR, I have no need for a high priced left wing. It's not even on my radar. I want right wing and center.  And defenseman (maybe). 

 

Sorry, but neither Panarin nor Skinner fill a need for me.  I mean, nice accessory, but doesn't fill a need.  I'll pass. 

 

I'd do Hayes, actually.  I hear the reasons you state and have a hard time arguing with your points on him.  I try anyway.  I absolutely agree about Duchene. I have zero interest. 

 

EDIT:  On the other hand, if you move Giroux back to center, Coots becomes your 2C and now you suddenly have a help wanted sign at left wing. 

[OccamsRazor]

27 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

if you move Giroux back to center

 

No. I would be ok to try him at RW....but not center...i am done seeing him there he is better on the wing.

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I want right wing and center.

 

Just gauging interest here....what about a trade for Alex Galchenyuk for the 2nd line center??? 

[ruxpin]

6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Just gauging interest here....what about a trade for Alex Galchenyuk for the 2nd line center??? 

I think I stay away from him. He should be really good, but something is off.   I mean maybe, but I guess I'm suspicious. 

[ruxpin]

6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No. I would be ok to try him at RW....but not center...i am done seeing him there he is better on the wing.

That's an option too, especially if they're hell bent on Panarin or Skinner. Then, you're set except for center.  It's not horrible. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

I think I stay away from him. He should be really good, but something is off.   I mean maybe, but I guess I'm suspicious. 

 

The reason i was asking about him is for three reasons he is only signed for next year at 4.9 mill and he can play on the 2nd line till Patrick is ready and two he should cost much to acquire.

 

That way you're not locked in beyond next year on him and he may play well.....he is a former 30 goal scorer and just turned 25 in february.

 

And he is versatile he can play all 3 positions. That way you don't have to go out and sign a guy to 3 or 5 year deal and block Frost.

 

Then best case scenario Patrick is ready by March to move up and Frost gets a call up before the trade deadline to see if he is ready nd if looks good then you can trade him at the deadline. 

[RonJeremy]

5 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I think I stay away from him. He should be really good, but something is off.   I mean maybe, but I guess I'm suspicious. 

He might be another Kovalev, tremendous talent, but lacking the desire to go all out and play to his full potential. 

[Digityman]

 

6 hours ago, ruxpin said:

12 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No. I would be ok to try him at RW....but not center...i am done seeing him there he is better on the wing.

That's an option too, especially if they're hell bent on Panarin or Skinner. Then, you're set except for center.  It's not horrible. 

 

That's an interesting thought outside the box and does put the wingers in the right spot IMO (dropping down one).

We'd have to land one of Panarin or Skinner and a decent sized center with skill like Hayes.

 

(Panarin/Skinner) -  Couturier - Giroux

JVR   -  (Hayes)  - Voracek

Lindblom - Patrick - Konecny

Raffl - Laughton - Hartman

 

I actually like that lineup very much.       

That 1st line should be scoring at will.   Giroux finally gets a winger worthy of his abilities.  Couturier just parks in front of the net and is the first one back-checking allowing the other two to focus more on offense.

 

The 2nd line is okay.  I'm not a huge fan but if they can mesh, they are a big body fore-checking type of line that would be tough to play against assuming Alleinnn Vviggnaueltt will hold JVR and Jake accountable defensively.  

 

The 3rd line of Konecny/Patrick/Lindblom all end up where they belong at this point in their careers and can do some real damage against other team's 3rd line.   This would be the line that I could see as your second line in the near future.    Especially as Frost/Farabee and a few others are going to start challenging for spots.   Hopefully they can trade or lose one of JVR or Jake to Seattle. 

 

The 4th line is pretty decent.  Good mix of speed/size/physical and has the ability to score.   That could be some team's 3rd (or even 2nd) line if they are playing well.

 

 

[King Knut]

13 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Unless we're trading JVR, I have no need for a high priced left wing. It's not even on my radar. I want right wing and center.  And defenseman (maybe). 

 

Sorry, but neither Panarin nor Skinner fill a need for me.  I mean, nice accessory, but doesn't fill a need.  I'll pass. 

 

I'd do Hayes, actually.  I hear the reasons you state and have a hard time arguing with your points on him.  I try anyway.  I absolutely agree about Duchene. I have zero interest. 

 

EDIT:  On the other hand, if you move Giroux back to center, Coots becomes your 2C and now you suddenly have a help wanted sign at left wing. 

 

Well, to get a RW at the caliber we're talking about, they're going to have to make a trade anyway as there are none in UFA (Simmonds may still be one of the best and i think we've all moved on).

I will say that Panarin has played both wings in his career.  But we'll see.  

 

I think Skinner fills the need of simply being a goal scorer.  

I'll admit that Panarin would be a bit like having another Giroux... a play maker with the ability to put in some goals... but is having two G's all that bad?

 

Fletcher is most likely going to trade someone.  Can he find a buyer for JVR?  Would the organization do that to the guy twice.  That would be absurd to me, but fitting with their current B.S. mentality.  Would they trade Lindblom rather than play him on the 4th?  Can someone switch the right right side?

 

I don't know.  

 

It's like we're all saying, nothing really fills the immediate need because the immediate need isn't exactly available through Free Agency right now.  This is why I still lean in on the Kaspari Kapanen idea.  Probably on par than any RW on the UFA market and nothing but upside ahead of him.

 

Failing that, it's sign a center and put a kid on the 3RW slot and see if in a few years, they can swap.  

 

If they go in on Hayes and try to put Frost or some other kid on Patty's 3RW, then I would hope that would open up money for the D man that we keep talking about.  

 

I like Myers.  Someone people think Trouba is available...  but I'm not don't think I'd offer sheet anyone unless the team you're getting him from is on board from the start because they're cap strapped and want your draft picks rather than your talent.  

 

Maybe a couple of picks and a Morin gets you Trouba.  Maybe it gets you Kapanen.  I'm very reticent to trade Sanheim or Myers though.  I'm actually really reticent to trade Morin too... but I realize I'm alone in that.  His upside is just so UP.  

 

 

 

[Digityman]

24 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I'm actually really reticent to trade Morin too... but I realize I'm alone in that.  His upside is just so UP.  

 

You aren't alone.  I'm with you.  I actually wouldn't touch the defense and leave it as is.  

[King Knut]

18 minutes ago, Digityman said:

 

 

That's an interesting thought outside the box and does put the wingers in the right spot IMO (dropping down one).

We'd have to land one of Panarin or Skinner and a decent sized center with skill like Hayes.

 

(Panarin/Skinner) -  Couturier - Giroux

JVR   -  (Hayes)  - Voracek

Lindblom - Patrick - Konecny

Raffl - Laughton - Hartman

 

I actually like that lineup very much.       

That 1st line should be scoring at will.   Giroux finally gets a winger worthy of his abilities.  Couturier just parks in front of the net and is the first one back-checking allowing the other two to focus more on offense.

 

The 2nd line is okay.  I'm not a huge fan but if they can mesh, they are a big body fore-checking type of line that would be tough to play against assuming Alleinnn Vviggnaueltt will hold JVR and Jake accountable defensively.  

 

The 3rd line of Konecny/Patrick/Lindblom all end up where they belong at this point in their careers and can do some real damage against other team's 3rd line.   This would be the line that I could see as your second line in the near future.    Especially as Frost/Farabee and a few others are going to start challenging for spots.   Hopefully they can trade or lose one of JVR or Jake to Seattle. 

 

The 4th line is pretty decent.  Good mix of speed/size/physical and has the ability to score.   That could be some team's 3rd (or even 2nd) line if they are playing well.

 

 

 

How long has it been since Giroux played RW?  Could work.  Seems hard to ask him to go back after he has made himself so comfortable on the left side... but it could work.  

 

If he's RW for Coots and a Skinner/Panarin that will help with the re-adjustment.  If that's the plan, then I'd almost rather go in on Skinner to have someone to put the puck in the net, but if it's Panarin on the LW, Coots is likely to score a TON of goals next year.  

I will say that Skinner is predominantly a LW, but has played a lot of C in his day.  The point of getting him would be to play him with your premiere set up guys I guess... but Lindy and Jake ain't slouches.   Just a thought.  People say Buffalo would be insane to let him go and they'll have the cap space, but he's not RFA so it's not entirely up to them.

 

Hayes wouldn't be terrible at 2C at all, I'm not opposed to that.  I'm just opposed to Hayes being your premiere off-season acquisition.

Can they afford Skinner/Panarin AND Hayes?  That gets tricky.  They've got a good bit of cash, but Fletch was clear that they're also gunning for a D man and they have some big RFA's to lock in and Provo, TK, & Sanheim are all going to get paid well.  

 

By my math, the Flyers have 37.25 million (give or take a few thousand) in cap space available for next year.

 

I think I'm being safe in assuming it's going to take about $22million or so to lock in the RFAs and Talbot (if he signes for 2.5 or less, which he may not do... which will make me even angrier about Stolarz who likely would sign for 1.5 or less).

 

That leaves 15 million for whoever else they decide to sign.  That might be enough for a top line wing and Hayes, but not for a top line wing, Hayes and a top pairing D man.   Even if they buy out MacDonald, it doesn't get you there and I'd just as soon waive him, pay him to be the #8 or 9 D man (aka Lehigh Valley) and have him completely off the books next year to help pay for the new contracts for Lindblom and Patrick. 

 

I think they are going to go in on a D man, so I'm assuming that they're going to focus on one forward through UFA and anything else they bring in will be via trade.  This will almost certainly involve Bailey, Hartman AND more concerningly, one of Ghost, Sanheim, Myers and Morin.

 

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

1 minute ago, Digityman said:

 

You aren't alone.  I'm with you.  I actually wouldn't touch the defense and leave it as is.  

 

I'm mostly with you, but I think if I could, I'd bring in one guy & maybe trade Hagg for something, waive Mac and start the season with Morin as your 7th to inherit Gudas' spot next after next year,  maybe platooning with Myers.

 

If I'm specific, I'd try to trade Hagg and picks or maybe a prospect to the Leafs for Kapanen if UFA doesn't get the forwards we need.

 

Ghost Provo

new guy  Sanheim

Myers  Gudas

Morin

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I'm very reticent to trade Sanheim or Myers though.  I'm actually really reticent to trade Morin too... but I realize I'm alone in that.

 

No you're not.

 

Don't trade either offer up Hagg and a pick and maybe even a prospect (depending on who it is)...don't move those two right now.

[King Knut]

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No you're not.

 

Don't trade either offer up Hagg and a pick and maybe even a prospect (depending on who it is)...don't move those two right now.

 

9 minutes ago, Digityman said:

 

You aren't alone.  I'm with you.  I actually wouldn't touch the defense and leave it as is.  

 

My Morin Men!  Stay Strong for Sammy!