vis Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: His first year in NY Exactly. He had a lot of young kids on the Rangers which he managed to coach pretty well. However, in his best years, he did have quite a few strong vets/good leaders in his lineups (e.g., Callahan, McDonagh, MSL, Brad Richards, Boyle, and Lundqvist). So, I still think the Flyers will need to bring in some solid vets/leaders to help out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, vis said: Exactly. He had a lot of young kids on the Rangers which he managed to coach pretty well. However, in his best years, he did have quite a few strong vets/good leaders in his lineups (e.g., Callahan, McDonagh, MSL, Brad Richards, Boyle, and Lundqvist). So, I still think the Flyers will need to bring in some solid vets/leaders to help out. Kevin Hayes and Zuccarello are two that will be available this offseason and wh are familiar in his ways. Now weather they fit what they are looking for or if they even want to be apart of AV's team again I can't say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, hf101 said: What has Vigneault won? A career 0.588 winning percentage. I thought Gordon was good enough to start next season. Change up the assistant coaches. you go to Gordon who has had trouble cracking the NHL after a dismal job on the Island to a proven winning Coach. Now you want to keep Gordon? Okay then.... makes perfect sense. as much sense as keeping Couts on the 3rd b/c he is a defensive specialist. Edited April 16, 2019 by murraycraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, vis said: However, in his best years, he did have quite a few strong vets/good leaders in his lineups (e.g., Callahan, McDonagh, MSL, Brad Richards, Boyle, and Lundqvist). You spelled "Daniel and Henrik Sedin, Alexander Burrows, Kevin Bieksa, and Sami 'the human injury machine' Salo " wrong His best years in New York were his first two. His "best year" was 10-11 with 54 wins, 117 points, and a Cup Final loss to Bahstan. 9 minutes ago, vis said: So, I still think the Flyers will need to bring in some solid vets/leaders to help out. They need a seasoned vet who isn't "Andrew MacDonald" on the blue line IMO - and a solid 2/3 C guy. Is it bad that the four 29+ guys already on the roster don't seem to have that skillset? Asking for an organization. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Just now, radoran said: You spelled "Daniel and Henrik Sedin, Alexander Burrows, Kevin Bieksa, and Sami 'the human injury machine' Salo " wrong His best years in New York were his first two. His "best year" was 10-11 with 54 wins, 117 points, and a Cup Final loss to Bahstan. Well, since OR and I were discussing the Rangers, I was limiting my post to his years as Rangers head coach. Just now, radoran said: They need a seasoned vet who isn't "Andrew MacDonald" on the blue line IMO - and a solid 2/3 C guy. Is it bad that the four 29+ guys already on the roster don't seem to have that skillset? Asking for an organization. Absolutely agree. And lol at "asking for an organization." But, yes, I do think that is an issue. Again, when I watch the POs, I feel like this team would get destroyed in a 7 game series. I don't think the leadership is there, nor do I think they have the grit/determination/etc. to do what it takes to win. Look at what Columbus and the Islanders are doing against more skilled teams. The Flyers just don't seem to have that personalty. Maybe AV gives it to them, but I'm doubtful unless they change some of this roster around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 If he dumps MacDud, I will give him some leeway. If he does not, I am on the FIRE HIM NOW!!!! bandwagon.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, vis said: Again, when I watch the POs, I feel like this team would get destroyed in a 7 game series. I don't think the leadership is there, nor do I think they have the grit/determination/etc. to do what it takes to win. Look at what Columbus and the Islanders are doing against more skilled teams. The Flyers just don't seem to have that personalty. Maybe AV gives it to them, but I'm doubtful unless they change some of this roster around. It's basically a one line team with a goalie at this point. Without a solid 2C - i.e. not "Nolan Patrick" - they can be shut down fairly easily. Just see what they did against playoff teams down the stretch. Carolina whupped them. Carolina. And the team has spent seven years telling itself it's good enough, it's talented enough, and doggoneit people like them. While missing the playoff four times and getting bounced in the first round three times. This has got to be "it" for this "core." Put up or shut up. And, for that matter, shut up regardless. Stop talking and do. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, radoran said: This has got to be "it" for this "core." Put up or shut up. And, for that matter, shut up regardless. Stop talking and do. Edited April 16, 2019 by murraycraven 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) One is for sure there is alot to work with here. And to have Hart already here to shelter them as best he can through this transition. Giroux Couturier Gudas Are a solid 3 base. I'm sorry I just can't put Jake in that group from the way I have seen him play. Provorov should benefit a lot from his guidance. It will be key to get themselves a vet to help. And then the young pieces to build into a contender. Konecny Patrick Lindblom Sanheim Myers Morin Is a solid group. Guys who should be ready to go with zero excuses yet should be nervous as hell. Voracek JVR Ghost Hagg These 4 could be the first examples to be made. Regardless of all this I do not want to see another up and down October and November again from this group. Or it is time to blow this core up. Time is wasting. It's playoffs or bust. Edited April 16, 2019 by OccamsRazor No more excuses. Just win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) Bill Meltzer @billmeltzer Since AV is familiar with Cam Talbot from their time together with the Rangers, I would think that's something that at least factors into whether he's re-signed by the Flyers to work in tandem with Carter Hart. Also, Kevin Hayes had some success under Vigneault with the Rangers. Bill Meltzer @billmeltzer We'll see where it goes, but it is worth noting that Vigneault has had vet ACs with previous NHL head coach experience on staffs in MTL (Dave King), VAN (Rick Bowness) and NYR (Scott Arniel, Lindy Ruff). Wouldn't be a surprise if Terry Murray moves from Phantoms AC to Flyers AC. Edited April 16, 2019 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Voracek JVR Ghost Hagg These 4 could be the first examples to be made. I'm witcha with Hagg and Jake, but JVR had 27 goals in 66 games this season (on pace for 33.5) - which is what he was signed for. And Ghost at $4.5M per for four more is a bargain and would need IMO to bring back serious assets to trade (not that I wouldn't trade him). If a message needs to be sent, for me it's Voracek who gets moved to send it. Moving Hagg means absolutely nothing. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, radoran said: I'm witcha with Hagg and Jake, but JVR had 27 goals in 66 games this season (on pace for 33.5) - which is what he was signed for. And Ghost at $4.5M per for four more is a bargain and would need IMO to bring back serious assets to trade (not that I wouldn't trade him). If a message needs to be sent, for me it's Voracek who gets moved to send it. Moving Hagg means absolutely nothing. I agree I was pointing out JVR because he will loaf too on a back check. Yet 33 goals will make him tolerable and he is key on the top PP. I think AV can get Ghost going but if he doesn't that would be 3 straight coaches he would be struggling under at what point do you move on while you can. And totally agreeing Jake should be the sacrificial lamb if they need one... Edited April 16, 2019 by OccamsRazor Stupid phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: I think AV can get Ghost going but if he doesn't that would be 3 straight coaches he would be struggling under at what point do you move on while you can. In 17-18 he had 13 goals and 65 points under Hakstol. Also a +10. Struggling? Gotstobehere played two games under Berube. Just Hakstol. Also, for defencemen under 30 making around $4.5M he's not out of line for his production. He needs to right the ship next season, no question. But I'm not riding him out of town on a rail. Edited April 16, 2019 by radoran in which Occ reminds me that Gordon actually "coached" around here 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, radoran said: In 17-18 he had 13 goals and 65 points under Hakstol. Also a +10. Struggling? Gotstobehere played two games under Berube. Just Hakstol. Also, for defencemen under 30 making around $4.5M he's not out of line for his production. He needs to right the ship next season, no question. But I'm not riding him out of town on a rail. I am counting AV as the third one. He had Hak and Gordon last year. And AV the 3rd hence the "I think AV can get Ghost going but if he doesn't that would be 3 straight coaches he would be struggling under at what point do you move on while you can." comment comes from. I'm not going back to the previous year I'm talking about the more here and now or as much of it we have. And I'm not saying they have to trade but once again when do you say he might just need a change of scenery ala JVR. Edited April 16, 2019 by OccamsRazor Fire Mcdud into the sun!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 hours ago, radoran said: It's basically a one line team with a goalie at this point. Without a solid 2C - i.e. not "Nolan Patrick" - they can be shut down fairly easily. Yep, and not enough grit/determination on the lower lines to make up for the lack of talent. Every year I feel like I say this, but I hope the GM is looking at these playoffs and realizing this team needs some playoff-type players. Really, I am not expecting them to get Panarin, Karlsson or possibly Duchene or Hayes. But they absolutely need to improve the compete level somehow. It's one reason why I wasn't thrilled with resigning Raffl. Yeah, it's not a bad contract. But, imo, Raffl isn't a gritty/grizzled PO player (nor is anyone else on the roster). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, vis said: Really, I am not expecting them to get Panarin, Karlsson or possibly Duchene or Hayes. Of everyone there, I would prefer Hayes as a 2/3 C. Then maybe Duchene, pending amount and term. I don't want to give Duchene $8M+ for 7. He would fill the 2C role (IMO) but may not be worth the price and length. 1 hour ago, vis said: It's one reason why I wasn't thrilled with resigning Raffl. Yeah, it's not a bad contract. But, imo, Raffl isn't a gritty/grizzled PO player (nor is anyone else on the roster). Yeah, Raffl's fine. But he's nothing more than "fine." And "keeping the group together" shouldn't be a priority for a team that hasn't made it out of the first round in seven years. As it is they look to have nine forwards and six D back from a team that hasn't shown much ability to do anything beyond dig a really deep hole and then struggle to get out of it. They need to be uncomfortable. If that means no wings and pizza at team functions, so be it. I am real tired of a team that has accomplished absolutely nothing patting itself on the back and saying "we'll be better next year" - for seven years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: He had Hak and Gordon last year. That's funny. I hadn't even considered Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Great start to the summer to get AV. Now Fletch needs to fix some glaring holes. Provorov is being *used* like a #1, but he isn't one at this point. Patrick is being *used* like a 2C, but he isn't one at this point. Hart is being *used* like a 1G, and he looked solid in his starts, but it's probably unwise to pencil that in without a proven high quality backup / former starter. If Fletch can find a way to ease the pressure of expectations on Provy, Patrick, and Hart, it's a good start. He's got to fill those slots with TALENT, not stopgaps. The trend with those three is that they were more or less anointed to those roles either by default or circumstances. I hope Fletch moves away from that approach. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, radoran said: Of everyone there, I would prefer Hayes as a 2/3 C. Then maybe Duchene, pending amount and term. I don't want to give Duchene $8M+ for 7. He would fill the 2C role (IMO) but may not be worth the price and length. I am kind of leaning that way as well. However, Duchene has had some decent stats in the first round, after doing squat after the trade. Hayes was OK after getting traded, and has only 1G in the POs. 1 hour ago, radoran said: Yeah, Raffl's fine. But he's nothing more than "fine." And "keeping the group together" shouldn't be a priority for a team that hasn't made it out of the first round in seven years. Yep. He may be well liked, but I don't think that's enough to merit a roster spot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, vis said: I am kind of leaning that way as well. However, Duchene has had some decent stats in the first round, after doing squat after the trade. Hayes was OK after getting traded, and has only 1G in the POs. I also think Hayes can better "drop" to a 3C position than Duchene, should Patrick ever "play his way" into the 2C... again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke2Leach Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 25 minutes ago, radoran said: I also think Hayes can better "drop" to a 3C position than Duchene, should Patrick ever "play his way" into the 2C... again. I'm assuming Hayes will be looking for a raise from 5.175 per year, so I'm not sure paying that kind of money for a 3rd line centre makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Clarke2Leach said: I'm assuming Hayes will be looking for a raise from 5.175 per year, so I'm not sure paying that kind of money for a 3rd line centre makes sense. Was just saying "in another thread" that cost and term is a vital determining factor. And that I don't want them to give someone a 6-8 year deal because he's the "best option this year." "The best option this year" might not be the best option in 3-4 years. Or even next year. That's the difference about what Hextall was doing IMO - he wasn't signing a guy to sign a guy. He was building a team. For example, he had a shot to add a consistent 30+ goal scorer and he went out and got JVR. He didn't need to sign a 30-year old mucker/grinder like Grabner to a three year deal, so he didn't. It's not like "signing Hayes" for 6-8 years instantly makes this team a serious competitor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Clarke2Leach said: I'm assuming Hayes will be looking for a raise from 5.175 per year, so I'm not sure paying that kind of money for a 3rd line centre makes sense. After watching him for a month in a Jets uni, I don't think he's worth anything near that. He's a very smart player who can be effective in traffic and with skill and speed on his wings. And he's good on faceoffs. But he's too slow. And he's not in elite shape IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke2Leach Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Podein25 said: After watching him for a month in a Jets uni, I don't think he's worth anything near that. He's a very smart player who can be effective in traffic and with skill and speed on his wings. And he's good on faceoffs. But he's too slow. And he's not in elite shape IMO. Agreed. He's Adam Lowry with slightly better offensive skills. But only slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Podein25 said: But he's too slow. They said that about Couturier too and should just be a 3rd line center....who said that I can't remember....but something tells me he will be in high demand this summer and because of the kids i think Chuck will only want to go no more than 4 or 5 years. So when all is said and done they may have to settle for option B or even C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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