mojo1917 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Haven't we seen enough already? this bum needs to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Haven't we seen enough already? this bum needs to go! Hi picked Dave Hakstol to be an assistant at Worlds... HE MUST GO. Someone please do something !!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 I am soooooo sick of his sh it. He has literally done NOTHING since being hired! I mean NOTHING! AWE GAWD I'VE had IT...I'm getting my halibut gear and moving to Buffalo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Came here to say I wish I had started this thread. Genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: I am soooooo sick of his sh it. He has literally done NOTHING since being hired! I mean NOTHING! AWE GAWD I'VE had IT...I'm getting my halibut gear and moving to Buffalo!!! Fill me in? I do not know what is going on. Vignault is the new Flyers coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said: Fill me in? I do not know what is going on. Vignault is the new Flyers coach? WE know what he's done that's all you need to know. He HAS to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, Podein25 said: WE know what he's done that's all you need to know. He HAS to go! The Flyers are watching the playoffs on television what do you want the coach to do? The Pens are watching the playoffs at ice level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: moving to Buffalo!!! Good lord. Don't do something THAT rash. I mean, do something less painful, like lie down in front of a bus or something. Anything but THAT. You don't deserve THAT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Podein25 said: Came here to say I wish I had started this thread. Genius. Be honest, before you saw who it was, just when you only had seen the title. You thought it was either me or Flyers4Ever, didn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, notfondajane said: The Flyers are watching the playoffs on television what do you want the coach to do? Watch TV with more energy and with a narrower gap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Be honest, before you saw who it was, just when you only had seen the title. You thought it was either me or Flyers4Ever, didn't you? True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 3 hours ago, King Knut said: Hi picked Dave Hakstol to be an assistant at Worlds... HE MUST GO. Someone please do something !!!!!!!!! Hey, I just saw your vote on the other thread. This isn't meant as "what the hell is your problem?!?!" I'm seriously asking because i'm interested in your take: what is your concern? I think I vaguely remember your not being interested when we were talking in complete hypotheticals, but I don't remember the reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 39 minutes ago, notfondajane said: The Flyers are watching the playoffs on television what do you want the coach to do? The Pens are watching the playoffs at ice level! Meh... so the Pens played 4 extra games....they are now all secretly lining up their tee times.... Crosby and company are not having a stellar playoff series... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, pilldoc said: Meh... so the Pens played 4 extra games....they are now all secretly lining up their tee times.... Crosby and company are not having a stellar playoff series... And it's pausing me off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 54 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Hey, I just saw your vote on the other thread. This isn't meant as "what the hell is your problem?!?!" I'm seriously asking because i'm interested in your take: what is your concern? I think I vaguely remember your not being interested when we were talking in complete hypotheticals, but I don't remember the reasons. Well I admit to this last post being a bit of a joke. My concerns with AV are that he’s old guard, not terribly innovative and about as safe a choice as Fletch could make. And this time, I just don’t think safe is the way to go. I think what’s required is an enthusiastic young voice who sees hockey differently than the old guard and is capable of seeing the advanced numbers and having a clue how to use these players in that light. The last thing I can cope with is another coach who doesn’t know or care to figure out how to use ghost or Sanheim properly to take advantage of their skill sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 11 hours ago, King Knut said: I think what’s required is an enthusiastic young voice who sees hockey differently than the old guard and is capable of seeing the advanced numbers and having a clue how to use these players in that light. We will definitely agree to differ - I think this team needs a proverbial kick in the keister and an "enthusiastic young voice" isn't the one to do that. The guy with division titles, conference titles, and President's Trophies just might be. The "put up or shut up" window for this team has been open, and this move starts to close it. If they don't get it together, come out strong and show themselves to be the "playoff team" they've insisted they have been for seven years, then it's time to move on. 11 hours ago, King Knut said: The last thing I can cope with is another coach who doesn’t know or care to figure out how to use ghost or Sanheim properly to take advantage of their skill sets. In fairness, Vigneault was the coach that got the most out of a fairly young Alexander Edler not to mention Christian Ehrhoff. Some of this is on the players. If the players can't be productive, it's not always "the coach's fault" every year. Because, as Flyers fans, we know that every other year, it's the goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 48 minutes ago, radoran said: We will definitely agree to differ - I think this team needs a proverbial kick in the keister and an "enthusiastic young voice" isn't the one to do that. The guy with division titles, conference titles, and President's Trophies just might be. The "put up or shut up" window for this team has been open, and this move starts to close it. If they don't get it together, come out strong and show themselves to be the "playoff team" they've insisted they have been for seven years, then it's time to move on. In fairness, Vigneault was the coach that got the most out of a fairly young Alexander Edler not to mention Christian Ehrhoff. Some of this is on the players. If the players can't be productive, it's not always "the coach's fault" every year. Because, as Flyers fans, we know that every other year, it's the goalie. Think about this: why sign him now? Last year the cup cup winning team didn’t resign Trotz. You never know what’s going to happen. What if he lightning get swept tonight and BrisBrois fires Cooper? This means that they didn’t even talk to the likes of Keefe or other AHL coaches just bursting for an NHL shot. This is another odd choice with odd timing that seems to have little to do with Hockey. Did they do this now because of Worlds? And my enthusiasm was a joke, but Vigneault really did bring on Hakstol for that staff. Their window was only supposed to be cracked this year. The fact that they didn’t get into the playoffs was almost exclusively due to piss poor coaching. Is medium good but safe coaching good enough to enough to get to get them through? can AV (sorry not even bothering to learn to spell his name right) sort out the neutral zone woes? Does he have an answer for the neutral zone speed of a team like Toronto? Does he look at any advanced stats to see which guys might pair better with each other and which need more minutes against certain lines... Or does he go with his gut? whats he going to tell fletcher about what he needs (nothing because he doesn’t know). My beef red is that the league is changing and the Flyers are a team build for the new league. Ghost, Provo, Sanheim, Myers, Morin... they are a different breed of young D-Man who should be a fueling new thinking and some experimentation. Frankly Vigneault would have been better for this team than Hakstol 4 years ago. I’m not saying he’ll be bad now. I’m just saying I have no confidence that he’s what they need to actually be great. I’ll grant you that he got to the finals with a pretty damn weak Rangers team, but he also lost in the finals with a totally stacked Canucks team. Increasingly, I’m just losing respect for the organization and management. They’re just acting kind of dumb and I don’t like that. I like this version of safe better than Homer’s idiotic ridiculousness, but they just don’t seem to have a feel for what they actually have at all. If Vigneault busts their humps and gets them working really hard in the right directions, maybe they become a good solid team under him and make the playoffs and win a few rounds. I just dont don’t see him taking it much further. Hakstol only seemed to see what this team wasn’t yet. He also had no feel for how the NHL game worked and the two combined were brutal. I want the guy who is going to see what this team could be and who is going to swing for the fences in trying to make them fulfill their potential. Not the guy who might be better at molding them into a more traditional sort of good (but not great). If Gordon had been better at sorting out the neutral zone, i’d Have been all in on him and been REALLY upset right now. I’m afraid Vigneault isn’t innovative or creative enough to see that version of this team. I hope I’m wrong. Im also afraid this, and every other move Fletcher has made have been for the sake of not displeasing Homer (and mostly Scott) instead of for the sake of putting the best thing on the ice. Simply put, with Scott in charge, I’m losing hope for this team. I’ll find hope and I’ll enthusiasm every September for a poorly coached team or a team with a bonkers GM and no goalie, but this situation with a moronic president with what I can only assume are lingering post concussion issues and a corporate overlord who knows jack about hockey looming over everything and intimidating the nuts off their GM and coaches... I just don’t know. I’m losing my enthusiasm. Same me thing happened to me with the Eagles during the Chip Kelly years. I literally sold my jerseys at a garage sale. And at least then I never doubted Lurie’s Heart. It wasn’t until they brought Roseman back in charge that I thought I could care again. But this isnt isn’t even about the GM for me. It’s mostly Dave Scott. I think he’s a serious problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, King Knut said: Think about this: why sign him now? Because they lost out on Quenneville and were afraid if they waited that they wouldn't have a guy with a track record of success. Panic move. Simple. 4 minutes ago, King Knut said: Increasingly, I’m just losing respect for the organization and management. Seriously, I couldn't even be bothered to watch most of this season. Didn't even have NBC Sports - Philadelphia. Watched a few national broadcasts. Went to a couple games. 6 minutes ago, King Knut said: If Vigneault busts their humps and gets them working really hard in the right directions, maybe they become a good solid team under him and make the playoffs and win a few rounds. I just dont don’t see him taking it much further. Honestly, I don't know who would do better than "make the playoffs and win a few rounds." And after the past seven years, that at least is a sign of life. 8 minutes ago, King Knut said: It’s mostly Dave Scott. I think he’s a serious problem. Yep - the bean counters are in charge. "Make the playoffs and win a few rounds" is exactly what they want to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, radoran said: Yep - the bean counters are in charge. "Make the playoffs and win a few rounds" is exactly what they want to achieve. I’m not even sure that’s it. It seems like it’s just the optics of empty seats and low stub hub prices right now... even if the team already made its money on those seats. The other problem is that the Phillies, 76ers and Eagles are boxing the Flyers out of marketing opportunities and endorsement deals. But they all also had “trust the process” mentalities and saw their respective processes through despite switching horses mid-process. In 76ers dialectic (and I’m. I basketball dan) I wanted more of a Brett Brown and less of a Larry Brown. In Eagles terms, I wanted Doug Pedersen and Frank Reich. The guys that you think, wait, what? And it turns out they’re way ahead of the curve of the league. Fletcher essentially just hired Andy Reid. a Very very safe safe choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, King Knut said: I’m not even sure that’s it. It seems like it’s just the optics of empty seats and low stub hub prices right now... even if the team already made its money on those seats. It's not just "the optics" - it's the lost ancillary revenue. They put a ton of money into renovating the building so they could squeeze more money out of patrons. If those patrons aren't there, they can't be squeezed. Add in "no playoffs" and you've got to wonder if the Flyers "made money" this season (in the arcane and unique way that hockey teams that are part of major conglomerates determine whether they "made money" or not). The Flyers have always expected that "their people" will show up regardless. When they weren't, it was panic button time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, radoran said: It's not just "the optics" - it's the lost ancillary revenue. They put a ton of money into renovating the building so they could squeeze more money out of patrons. If those patrons aren't there, they can't be squeezed. Add in "no playoffs" and you've got to wonder if the Flyers "made money" this season (in the arcane and unique way that hockey teams that are part of major conglomerates determine whether they "made money" or not). The Flyers have always expected that "their people" will show up regardless. When they weren't, it was panic button time. They did not trust their own process. Which may have had something to do with Snider dying early on in the process and the corporate hacks taking over. To bring it full circle, the one thing I'll give Vigneault is that the Rangers kinda did him a solid in firing him after trading away all their key pieces for the second straight year. By breaking the contract themselves, they ensure that he gets paid while he looks for a new gig and they wallow in crapitude on their quest for a great draft pick this year... Which they failed miserably at, but got anyway. Such is life in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, King Knut said: They did not trust their own process. Which may have had something to do with Snider dying early on in the process and the corporate hacks taking over. I honestly believe it was "Hextall being mean" that sealed his fate. Not letting the organization be fat and happy. "The process" is exactly where Hextall thought it would be. This was the offseason to bring in the vet pieces to put together a team that would compete. It has taken this long to get the Holmgren stink off the team. Look at the pipeline. Look at the young players on the team. To me, this is exactly where Hextall expected them to be after Y4. Maybe they "should have" made the playoffs and yes he should have canned Hakstol last offseason. But aside from that (how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?) they are where they "should" be. Now their "leadership" is out of excuses. Get it done or get the hell out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, radoran said: I honestly believe it was "Hextall being mean" that sealed his fate. Not letting the organization be fat and happy. "The process" is exactly where Hextall thought it would be. This was the offseason to bring in the vet pieces to put together a team that would compete. It has taken this long to get the Holmgren stink off the team. Look at the pipeline. Look at the young players on the team. To me, this is exactly where Hextall expected them to be after Y4. Maybe they "should have" made the playoffs and yes he should have canned Hakstol last offseason. But aside from that (how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?) they are where they "should" be. Now their "leadership" is out of excuses. Get it done or get the hell out. He should have canned Lappy too last offseason. Their PK has gotten worse every year he has been running it. Knoblach needs to go to for sure at least with Mullen they had a top 10 PP. I really really hope AV gets his own guys to work under him I've seen enough of the current group. I think Rick Wilson goes back into retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I’ll be interesred to read this... https://www.philly.com/flyers/flyers-alain-vigneault-history-canucks-rangers-chuck-fletcher-veterans-20190416.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, King Knut said: I’ll be interesred to read this... https://www.philly.com/flyers/flyers-alain-vigneault-history-canucks-rangers-chuck-fletcher-veterans-20190416.html I might be, except for the author. And the fact that philly.com won't let me access their website. "You've reached your article limit for the month" they say every time I log on. And I check my history and I have six philly.com articles this year and probably couldn't have read any of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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