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Jam1986

Justin (not Jason) Willams

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Posted (edited)

Did the the Flyers try to get him back? If not why?

Edited by radoran

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16 minutes ago, Jam1986 said:

Did the the Flyers try to get him back? If not why?

I've never heard of him. Is he any relation to Justin Williams?

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6 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I've never heard of him. Is he any relation to Justin Williams?

 

There was a Jason WIlliams though...  he played for Detroit and some other teams around the same time.

 

I wanted Willy.  I thought he was what we needed.  I don't think they'll get him back now because he chose Carolina and seems comfortable there.  

 

But I wanted him when his time was up with the caps and I think I even mentioned him when his time was up with the Kings, but at that point we couldn't have afforded the Conn Smythe Winner with the miserable cap situation we had.

 

Anyway, my point then as it is now is that Willy has the kind of veteran leadership and absolute hatred of losing this team is sorely lacking.

 

He didn't fit in here the first go around because He hated to lose more than he liked playing hockey "Hitchcock's Way." so Hitch underutilized him and refused to let him do what he did best--turns out he wasn't exactly  Gagne 2.0... he was the hero that the Flyers have needed over the years but not necessarily the one they wanted).

 

Williams immediately took off in Carolina though and I've been grumpy ever since.  1 cup there, 2 in LA.  One Conn Smythe.  He's a really solid player who continues to help and produce in his golden years.  It's no wonder Rod gets along with him and knows how to use him.  They're very similar in their late career approaches.  

 

But 4.5 million for a 53 point 16-17 minute/ night 3RW and playoff awesomeness?  

 

IN A HEARTBEAT.  

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1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

I've never heard of him. Is he any relation to Justin Williams?

Sorry yes Justin lol!

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1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

I've never heard of him. Is he any relation to Justin Williams?

 

Come on now you don't know White chocolate?

 

Dude play basketball for the Suns.

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16 hours ago, King Knut said:

He didn't fit in here the first go around because He hated to lose more than he liked playing hockey "Hitchcock's Way." so Hitch underutilized him and refused to let him do what he did best--turns out he wasn't exactly  Gagne 2.0... he was the hero that the Flyers have needed over the years but not necessarily the one they wanted).

 

The Official Line on this is that the team "needed" Danny Markov because of the injuries to the blue line and as such "had" to deal Williams to get him.

 

Which goes back to the underlying problem with the "make the playoffs and anything can happen" mentality when you trade a young player for one playoff run and that player goes on to be a Justin Williams type player. And then you don't re-sign the guy you traded him for because he's "going back to Russia" or something, despite playing for two more years in the NHL.

 

In fairness, they were desperate to give that 03-04 team "one more run" at it because of the impending lockout and the inevitable break up of that team under the imposed cap. And that team did get to the Conference Final, losing in 7 to the Bolts.

 

Was that worth 15 years of Justin Williams? We report. You decide. 😎

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@radoran

I just read a Meltzer post about this very thing.  He lays it on thick about how good Markov was and yada, yada yada, conference finals, Malakov- Kaepanen, all I can think of is whisky cigarettes and going home to russia, I think ol' Danny is one of the reasons I don't trust russian born players. 

Burns my pork that both Williams and Sharp went on to have pretty successful and winning careers and the Flyers have sort of scraped along since that first lockout. Traded for nothing and nowhere- these are the deals that have given this fanbase PTSD, that and all the assets for 16 games of Adam Oates. 

 

 

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Just now, mojo1917 said:

@radoran

I just read a Meltzer post about this very thing.  He lays it on thick about how good Markov was and yada, yada yada, conference finals, Malakov- Kaepanen, all I can think of is whisky cigarettes and going home to russia, I think ol' Danny is one of the reasons I don't trust russian born players. 

Burns my pork that both Williams and Sharp went on to have pretty successful and winning careers and the Flyers have sort of scraped along since that first lockout. Traded for nothing and nowhere- these are the deals that have given this fanbase PTSD, that and all the assets for 16 games of Adam Oates.

 

Yeah, I saw that Meltzer post, too.

 

I liked Markov and actually did enjoy the 03-04 run - for what it was. But when you look at it as "was it worth 15 years of Justin Williams to get to a Conference Final?" the math starts to not add up. That said, would Williams have been the player here that he was after he left? Impossible to know.

 

Same thing with Sharp. Both he and Williams got chances to show themselves in Carolina and Chicago that they might not (probably wouldn't) have gotten here.

 

And, let's be fair here, Oates did assist on both goals during that infamous Senators' series. He apparently wasn't around long enough to get the memo from the "core" that "the problem" was Cechmanek (2.05/.921) and that they were also quitting to put the shiv to Barber. And, of course, none of the picks (or Ouellet) ever amounted to much of anything - assuming the Flyers would have made the same picks.

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22 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

The Official Line on this is that the team "needed" Danny Markov because of the injuries to the blue line and as such "had" to deal Williams to get him.

 

Which goes back to the underlying problem with the "make the playoffs and anything can happen" mentality when you trade a young player for one playoff run and that player goes on to be a Justin Williams type player. And then you don't re-sign the guy you traded him for because he's "going back to Russia" or something, despite playing for two more years in the NHL.

 

In fairness, they were desperate to give that 03-04 team "one more run" at it because of the impending lockout and the inevitable break up of that team under the imposed cap. And that team did get to the Conference Final, losing in 7 to the Bolts.

 

Was that worth 15 years of Justin Williams? We report. You decide. 😎

 

Who knows what might have happened if they just kept Eric Weinrich instead of trading him to the Blues for a 5th round pick, which they wasted.

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1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

The Official Line on this is that the team "needed" Danny Markov because of the injuries to the blue line and as such "had" to deal Williams to get him.

 

Which goes back to the underlying problem with the "make the playoffs and anything can happen" mentality when you trade a young player for one playoff run and that player goes on to be a Justin Williams type player. And then you don't re-sign the guy you traded him for because he's "going back to Russia" or something, despite playing for two more years in the NHL.

 

In fairness, they were desperate to give that 03-04 team "one more run" at it because of the impending lockout and the inevitable break up of that team under the imposed cap. And that team did get to the Conference Final, losing in 7 to the Bolts.

 

Was that worth 15 years of Justin Williams? We report. You decide. 😎

 

The thing is I don’t blame Clarke white so much. I mean I blame him because he should have seen what was going on (I mean if I could...) but I blame Hitchcock more.  When Hitch came in, his whole thing was utilizing players strengths better and not wasting time and effort having them out of position to do what they do well in the name of doing something they didn’t do well. 

 

He did did the exact opposite with almost everyone. Especially Williams and Rusty. But also the likes of JLC. 

 

The crazy part part is that he had so many guys who could do what he was asking. 

 

Primeau, Gagne, Kappy, even JR to an extent. But to turn down the offensive upside Williams and Rusty possessed in the name of having them play like a checking line was insane and it made them expendable to Clarke who did in fact need At least one D man and Markov was t BAD either. 

 

But Williams and to a slightly lesser extent Rusty would have been the core of your team for ten years or more.  Clarke kind of ignored Primeau’s concussions (recurring theme with clarke I guess).  

 

When they returned from the Strike, Rex and Roenick were gone anyway and Primeau was skating on borrowed time. 

 

Inagine the 2008-2012 teams if Willy and Rusty were on Richie and Carter’s and Unberger’s wings with Gags and Hartsy

and Knuble and Briere? 

 

They were  a big part of the core that’s clarke didn’t even realize he’d already built. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

Hind sight

 

Its not hind sight if we were saying it at the time, which some of us were.  

Edited by King Knut
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Who knows what might have happened if they just kept Eric Weinrich instead of trading him to the Blues for a 5th round pick, which they wasted.

 

Forgot about that one.  

Pitkanen was another guy I wanted to keep but Smith and Lupul were not a bad return for him. 

 

Weinrich was like 38 at the time thiugh wasn’t he?  

Edited by King Knut

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18 hours ago, Jam1986 said:

Did the the Flyers try to get him back? If not why?

He was exactly what the Flyers needed.  I don’t recall the cap situation, but I think they could have signed him.  I think the only issue might have been that they were loaded with RW depth.

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

Forgot about that one.  

Pitkanen was another guy I wanted to keep but Smith and Lupul were not a bad return for him. 

 

Weinrich was like 38 at the time thiugh wasn’t he?  

 

I'm not sure of his age at the time but he was a solid two way guy could've helped with all the injuries on the blueline.

 

But it would have been nice if Roenick didn't break Rico's arm as well....smfh.

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      The thing is I don’t blame Clarke white so much. I mean I blame him because he should have seen what was going on (I mean if I could...) but I blame Hitchcock more.  When Hitch came in, his whole thing was utilizing players strengths better and not wasting time and effort having them out of position to do what they do well in the name of doing something they didn’t do well.    He did did the exact opposite with almost everyone. Especially Williams and Rusty. But also the likes of JLC. 
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      Its not hind sight if we were saying it at the time, which some of us were.  
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      There was a Jason WIlliams though...  he played for Detroit and some other teams around the same time.   I wanted Willy.  I thought he was what we needed.  I don't think they'll get him back now because he chose Carolina and seems comfortable there.     But I wanted him when his time was up with the caps and I think I even mentioned him when his time was up with the Kings, but at that point we couldn't have afforded the Conn Smythe Winner with the miserable cap situation we h
    • 1
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      Come on now you don't know White chocolate?   Dude play basketball for the Suns.
    • 1
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      Yeah, I saw that Meltzer post, too.   I liked Markov and actually did enjoy the 03-04 run - for what it was. But when you look at it as "was it worth 15 years of Justin Williams to get to a Conference Final?" the math starts to not add up. That said, would Williams have been the player here that he was after he left? Impossible to know.   Same thing with Sharp. Both he and Williams got chances to show themselves in Carolina and Chicago that they might not (probably wouldn't)
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      Who knows what might have happened if they just kept Eric Weinrich instead of trading him to the Blues for a 5th round pick, which they wasted.
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