pilldoc Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, brelic said: Can you imagine if the Flyers are really in on Marner? How would that even work? I shudder to think at what would go the other way. Ghost, for sure. The 11th. Frost or Farabee. Crap. Maybe that's why Fletch isn't worried about blocking Frost. He's going to trade him for Marner. How would you guys feel about that deal? I honestly have no idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 RE: If the Flyers were interested in Marner and why it could occur.... Interesting article .... https://thehockeywriters.com/toronto-maple-leafs-forced-mitch-marner-trade/ On June 18, TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie was interviewed on OverDrive on Toronto 1050 radio. He shared the news about the salary cap, suggesting that, instead of the $83 million projected, there’s a chance the cap would be set at about $81.5 million. If the Maple Leafs don’t make a substantial trade, that salary cap number makes the contract the Maple Leafs can offer Mitch Marner much lower than originally anticipated. Interestingly, McKenzie echoed Friedman’s comment that, if a team drafted good players and developed them well until they were RFAs, that team – as McKenzie said it bluntly – was “screwed.” His point was that it was likely better to build a team through trades than player development. As the panel noted, that was the St. Louis Blue’s model for winning this season’s Stanley Cup. If McKenzie is right, that’s where the Maple Leafs find themselves with their players – Morgan Rielly, Auston Matthews, Andreas Johnsson, Connor Brown, and William Nylander. McKenzie notes that these really good players will likely, because of the way the salary cap and negotiating contracts works, end up costing the team so much money that the team’s ability to keep their young stars is diminished. These young players want to be paid fair-market contracts, regardless of what’s happening on their teams. McKenzie also noted the lack of an external mechanism (arbitration) to settle the salary dispute between the Maple Leafs and Marner. The only two choices are that the team pays him what he wants or Marner refuses to sign and withholds his services. That’s why Nylander and Matthews signed such lucrative contracts. Dubas paid. Related: Maple Leafs Rumor: Is Marner Testing the Market? So What? McKenzie noted that, when the Collective Bargaining Agreement was put into place and the entry-level system was built, the owners believed they held the power. However, without salary arbitration, the opposite has become the norm. Young players have usurped the power and forced teams to meet their demands. These young players have become so good, so fast, and have grown to mean so much to their teams, which McKenzie notes is true all over the NHL, that they are setting their own comparables. In Marner’s case, McKenzie believed salary arbitration would allow an external arbitrator to use someone like Nikita Kucherov ($9.5 million) rather than teammate Matthews ($11.634 million). For Maple Leafs fans and hockey fans in general, I encourage following the link above and listening to the podcast. In a level-headed way, without hype or being over-dramatic, McKenzie laid out the overwhelming problem the salary cap and the Collective Bargaining Agreement have become. I don’t mean to read too much into McKenzie’s tone, but he seemed almost disillusioned this has become the norm in hockey. He’s a fan. What Happens Next? I can’t imagine the Maple Leafs without Marner, arguably the team’s on-ice leader and best player. That said, I can’t imagine Marner or his agents acquiescing to a cap-friendly contract. That leaves the Maple Leafs with the same problem the Jets “solved” by trading Trouba. I believe the Maple Leafs will be forced to trade Marner, probably for less than he’s worth to a team he probably doesn’t want to play for. Marner has no say where he goes. The Trouba trade was good for the Rangers. Great right-handed defensemen are hard to find. I hope Trouba will be happy because, when you’re 25 years old playing a game for a living, you should be. Plus, the defenseman is an American. I’m less confident Marner will be as happy playing somewhere other than Toronto. But, that’s today’s NHL reality. If Marner is traded, as I suspect he will be soon, it will be a sad day for everyone. I will miss him on the Maple Leafs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, brelic said: Can you imagine if the Flyers are really in on Marner? How would that even work? I shudder to think at what would go the other way. Ghost, for sure. The 11th. Frost or Farabee. Crap. Maybe that's why Fletch isn't worried about blocking Frost. He's going to trade him for Marner. How would you guys feel about that deal? who is reporting that they're in on Marner? I would think that if they're going after him that you would see ghost and Konecny going the other way. There's really no other way that works. I guess Vorachek, but I'm not sure that the Leafs would be after someone older like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, AJgoal said: who is reporting that they're in on Marner? I would think that if they're going after him that you would see ghost and Konecny going the other way. There's really no other way that works. I guess Vorachek, but I'm not sure that the Leafs would be after someone older like him. I'm not sure, someone posted it here a while ago, so I just used it as a thought exercise. Another reason it makes sense is that the Flyers could get Sparks in the deal. Not my 5th or even 10th choice for backup, but whatever. If they're not interested in Talbot, they gotta do something. Losing Konecny would suck. Love the guy. Both him and Ghost play the game the same way - super competitive, feisty, and risk-takers. Love it and that would be missed for sure. But with the trade, we'd have G/Coots/Marner JVR/Hayes/Voracek Lindblom/Patrick/Hartman or FA 3RW (Donskoi, Connolly) Raffl/Laughton/NAK or Hartman That would be fun to watch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, brelic said: I'm not sure, someone posted it here a while ago, so I just used it as a thought exercise. Another reason it makes sense is that the Flyers could get Sparks in the deal. Not my 5th or even 10th choice for backup, but whatever. If they're not interested in Talbot, they gotta do something. Losing Konecny would suck. Love the guy. Both him and Ghost play the game the same way - super competitive, feisty, and risk-takers. Love it and that would be missed for sure. But with the trade, we'd have G/Coots/Marner JVR/Hayes/Voracek Lindblom/Patrick/Hartman or FA 3RW (Donskoi, Connolly) Raffl/Laughton/NAK or Hartman That would be fun to watch. TO's cap situation makes someone like Voracek unlikely I think. I have to imagine Ghost would be a part of this kind of trade. The question for me is what else would be involved. It can't really be someone with much money tied up, so maybe TK or even Patrick? Unless TO wants more dmen, then they could also ask for Sanheim. Ghost, Patrick, and the 11th overall? I'm spitballing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Would they have the cap space to add Micheal Ferland for the 3rd RW spot i wonder a loud or is he looking to get paid? Yeah, I would think so. But I'm not paying a lot for this muffler! I don't see why he gets anything more than $3.5M/2 years. And given his salary history, that may be high. But, you know, "market!" Apparently, the cotton candy guy gets $4M now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 52 minutes ago, brelic said: Ghost, for sure. The 11th. Frost or Farabee. Crap. Maybe that's why Fletch isn't worried about blocking Frost. He's going to trade him for Marner. I think it's Patrick. I'd do Ghost, Patrick and 11th, I think. I know I just reopened the 3C slot, but damn, I do it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digityman Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I think it's Patrick. I'd do Ghost, Patrick and 11th, I think. I know I just reopened the 3C slot, but damn, I do it anyway. Ghost & 11 would definitely have to be involved. Toronto would try for Sanheim but Fletch better say no. So then it would come down to Patrick or Frost. And I'm stuck at which one I would be okay with parting with......but I'm leaning toward Patrick. Frost slots at 3C this year - that's risky when they just shored up their centers for the next 3-4 years. G/Coots/Marner JVR/Hayes/Voracek Lindblom/Frost/NAK or Hartman Raffl/Laughton/NAK or Hartman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, elmatus said: Ghost, Patrick, and the 11th overall? I'm spitballing. This is what I'm thinking. (I think..) objectively, that's a hard package to beat as far as other teams are concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Digityman said: Ghost & 11 would definitely have to be involved. Toronto would try for Sanheim but Fletch better say no. So then it would come down to Patrick or Frost. And I'm stuck at which one I would be okay with parting with......but I'm leaning toward Patrick. Frost slots at 3C this year - that's risky when they just shored up their centers for the next 3-4 years. G/Coots/Marner JVR/Hayes/Voracek Lindblom/Frost/NAK or Hartman Raffl/Laughton/NAK or Hartman Yeah, there's a bit of risk there with Frost--who I like a ton more than Patrick. But we didn't include Konecny in this trade, so you could put TK on Frost's right. Man, at that point, I'd be really tempted to push Lindblom down one more line and have Farabee, Frost, TK. Raffl becomes my 13th but spots Farabee on a semi-regular basis (but on the 4th line, pushing Lindblom back up). Giroux, Couturier, Marner JVR, Hayes, Voracek Farabee, Frost, Konecny Lindblom, Laughton, Hartman Raffl. NAK is first call up (depending upon position) Provorov / Braun Sanheim / Myers Morin/Niskanen Hagg or Friedman or... Edited June 19, 2019 by ruxpin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Giroux, Couturier, Marner JVR, Hayes, Voracek Farabee, Frost, Konecny Lindblom, Laughton, Hartman Raffl. NAK is first call up (depending upon position) Provorov / Braun Sanheim / Myers Morin/Niskanen Hagg Hart Since NAK isn't waiver exempt i would then just trade him or Hartman. Man that is a helluva lineup!!! Patrick needs a new contract anyways. I have to say i would do this trade for sure!!!!!!! Edit: It's a given those two top lines would be hard to matchup against. But man that 3rd line would just give teams hell!!!!!!! Edited June 19, 2019 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, ruxpin said: I think it's Patrick. I'd do Ghost, Patrick and 11th, I think. I know I just reopened the 3C slot, but damn, I do it anyway. that won't really work with the Flyer's cap situation. Marner's getting 11 million, so 6.5 more than Ghost, down to ~16.5 million. Still need Provorov, Konecny and Sanheim signed, and even if you dump Laughton and Hartman, you need to fill those slots PLUS 3C now, plus two more forwards. Patrick doesn't have enough cap to make it work. I really don't think a single trade works here. The Flyers would need to move out cap in order to sign Marner, so either Toronto has to clear space to accept a contract like Voracek, or the Flyers need to move out something expensive elsewhere for a whole lot of not much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, AJgoal said: that won't really work with the Flyer's cap situation. Marner's getting 11 million, so 6.5 more than Ghost, down to ~16.5 million. Still need Provorov, Konecny and Sanheim signed, and even if you dump Laughton and Hartman, you need to fill those slots PLUS 3C now, plus two more forwards. Patrick doesn't have enough cap to make it work. I really don't think a single trade works here. The Flyers would need to move out cap in order to sign Marner, so either Toronto has to clear space to accept a contract like Voracek, or the Flyers need to move out something expensive elsewhere for a whole lot of not much. yeah, and you still need a backup/tandem goalie. I don't think Sanheim will be as much yet, but it's possible. But either way, you're down to what, $11-$12M for these 3 players. Frost is already signed, so if we used him for 3C -- I said "if" -- 3C is taken care of. Kind of. Hopefully. Maybe. Toronto really can't take Voracek back. It doesn't mitigate the reason (enough) that they're having to trade Marner in the first place. I, too, think it's a pipe dream. But it's fun for a moment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 18 hours ago, ruxpin said: I, too, think it's a pipe dream. Robert Hagg for Ondrej Kase : cap hit of 2.6 mill for the next two years. https://www.nhl.com/player/ondrej-kase-8478131 It will fill out the RW spot. Give the Ducks a needed defenseman to give them 6. Kase had a down year so maybe it is worth a shot. His brother is on the Phantoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: His brother is on the Phantoms. Yah, cause the last set of brothers we had worked out so well lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 From our favourite rumour source, Ek. Where there's smoke... * Montreal, Edmonton and Vancouver all have deep interest in Shayne Gostisbehere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, brelic said: Yah, cause the last set of brothers we had worked out so well lol That was just a random fact Kase would be a nice addition to the Flyers....the reason i was mentioning him and at a reasonable contract for the next two. The Watson brothers had a good run with the Flyers...right....a won a Cups together?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 25 minutes ago, brelic said: From our favourite rumour source, Ek. Where there's smoke... * Montreal, Edmonton and Vancouver all have deep interest in Shayne Gostisbehere... Fine ...from the Oilers ..what do you think of JESSE PULJUJÄRVI? From the Nucks how about Boeser? From the Habs would you consider Drouin or Tatar? Just spit balling ideas out there ..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 25 minutes ago, brelic said: From our favourite rumour source, Ek. Where there's smoke... * Montreal, Edmonton and Vancouver all have deep interest in Shayne Gostisbehere... Vancouver has Jake Virtanen would be a nice fit in the RW hole on the 3rd....but i'm not doing that straight up. Jake has some proven still to do...his best season has been 15 goals and 10 assist for a simple 25 points. So they would have to throw a 2nd in there for me....Oilers don't really have anything i want now after all the signings now. Montreal i would ask for Ryan Poehling as the piece coming back and i really don't want to trade him within the East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 32 minutes ago, brelic said: From our favourite rumour source, Ek. The clown also has the Canes and Leafs swapping Kapanen for Hamilton....he's got that good Canuck magic lettuce up there he is chiefin on. The Leafs have like 7 mill in cap space right now and Dougie would take up 5.75 mill of it and oh yeah they have others they need to sign like Marner, Gardiner and Johnsson....unreal the weak attempt he makes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, pilldoc said: Fine ...from the Oilers ..what do you think of JESSE PULJUJÄRVI? Going to need a lot more than that. 7 minutes ago, pilldoc said: From the Nucks how about Boeser? That's not going to happen unless you add a lot more going to the Canucks. 7 minutes ago, pilldoc said: From the Habs would you consider Drouin or Tatar? I would like Ryan Poehling in return.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, pilldoc said: Fine ...from the Oilers ..what do you think of JESSE PULJUJÄRVI? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, pilldoc said: Fine ...from the Oilers ..what do you think of JESSE PULJUJÄRVI? From the Nucks how about Boeser? From the Habs would you consider Drouin or Tatar? Just spit balling ideas out there ..... Puljujarvi is essentially another Patrick at this point -- great hype with little to show for it. Boeser would be great, but I can't imagine Van ever doing that. The Habs.. I dunno. I'm not sure they have anything I'd really care to get right now. I'm not a big Drouin fan. I'm not huge on Domi either (and I can't imagine the Habs would trade him right now). That's me of course. The way Homer Fletch has been running this off season, I'm going to say: To EDM: Ghost, Patrick, the 11th overall, and two more 1st round picks (2020, 2021) To PHI: Milan Lucic The good news is we all know how great the Oilers are at getting the best out of their high picks. Edited June 20, 2019 by elmatus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, elmatus said: The Habs.. I dunno. I'm not sure they have anything I'd really care to get right now. Uh this guy... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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