brelic Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 To those who actually watch hockey, is Hayes slow? I seem to recall reading that that was the knock on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, brelic said: To those who actually watch hockey, is Hayes slow? I seem to recall reading that that was the knock on him. Wait. People on this forum watch hockey? Who would have thought? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, hf101 said: Then we have 2 #1 centers... Or 3 #2 centers ? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, radoran said: Wait. People on this forum watch hockey? Who would have thought? Haha. I actually watched the TB/CBJ series, was very entertained to see TB fold like a cheap suit. Haven't watched anything since then. If Hayes is slow-ish, we've got size down the middle but not so much speed. Our wings are pretty decent though - G, TK, Jake all have decent top speed. JVR can too once he gets going. G/Couturier/TK JVR/Hayes/Voracek Lindblom/Patrick/Kapanen? Farabee? Raffl/Laughton/Hartman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, brelic said: Haha. I actually watched the TB/CBJ series, was very entertained to see TB fold like a cheap suit. Haven't watched anything since then. If Hayes is slow-ish, we've got size down the middle but not so much speed. Our wings are pretty decent though - G, TK, Jake all have decent top speed. JVR can too once he gets going. G/Couturier/TK JVR/Hayes/Voracek Lindblom/Patrick/Kapanen? Farabee? Raffl/Laughton/Hartman Hayes is slow. He makes up for some of that by being exceptionally smart. He's great on faceoffs and the PK. Other than that, the only thing I'd say about him is that he uses his big body well. He can buy time with it to make plays, and he takes the puck to the net. Trying to be positive. I just don't think all of that is worth $6M+ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Trying to be positive. I just don't think all of that is worth $6M+ It is, unfortunately, where "the market" is going. The real question for me is term. $6M for 4 might not be bad, $6M for 6+ for a guy who is "slow" at 27 is another thing entirely. I'm really not sure you're going to want a '"slow" 30 year old taking over the third line in three years. But we've seen this organization plug "next year's" problem with a long term contract before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Hayes is slow. He makes up for some of that by being exceptionally smart. He's great on faceoffs and the PK. Other than that, the only thing I'd say about him is that he uses his big body well. He can buy time with it to make plays, and he takes the puck to the net. Trying to be positive. I just don't think all of that is worth $6M+ I think it's right around the amount that comparable players get. Nelson is the closest comparable. William Karlsson will get something similar but likely more than Nelson. JT Miller is at $5.25M for a bit less production than Hayes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, brelic said: To those who actually watch hockey, is Hayes slow? I seem to recall reading that that was the knock on him. Watch the clip and you tell me if he looks slow. For a 6-5 forward I wouldn't say he is a speedster by any means but I also would call him slow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Someone else's opinion on his speed... Alexander Appleyard @avappleyard I have seen a few comments about the @NHLFlyers brining in Hayes not helping with speed... but he is a legitimately good, fast, skater... at 6'5. If he signs he also helps with the PK rotation. He is a pretty darn good PKer who can get breakaways. Alexander Appleyard @avappleyard Like Voracek and Konecny are probably the only players on the @NHLFlyers who are better at getting into the OZ than Hayes. And Couturier, Giroux, Raffl and Hartman are legit good in that area. But Hayes is better. As long as he doesn't get a NMC or NTC at 6 mill I am ok with it because he can help with the expansion draft since they will be required to expose at least 10% of their teams salary as one of the stipulations his 6 mill will go a long way towards that. Him and Jake would make 14 mill right there. And then a few others they should be able to get there. If he gets one of those clauses then well all bets are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Someone else's opinion on his speed... Alexander Appleyard @avappleyard I have seen a few comments about the @NHLFlyers brining in Hayes not helping with speed... but he is a legitimately good, fast, skater... at 6'5. If he signs he also helps with the PK rotation. He is a pretty darn good PKer who can get breakaways. Alexander Appleyard @avappleyard Like Voracek and Konecny are probably the only players on the @NHLFlyers who are better at getting into the OZ than Hayes. And Couturier, Giroux, Raffl and Hartman are legit good in that area. But Hayes is better. As long as he doesn't get a NMC or NTC at 6 mill I am ok with it because he can help with the expansion draft since they will be required to expose at least 10% of their teams salary as one of the stipulations his 6 mill will go a long way towards that. Him and Jake would make 14 mill right there. And then a few others they should be able to get there. If he gets one of those clauses then well all bets are off. Hayes is not a fast skater. Not by today's standards and not likely by any. I guess once he gets the locomotive chugging, and more coal gets shoveled in, he eventually gets up to some sort of "speed." Like I said, he's smart and I value that, but c'mon, "fast"? Also, he's not in shape. He's gassed after 5 seconds at full "speed" and spends the rest of the shift doing all the good things a smart two way player can do. Hooray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 39 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Hayes is not a fast skater. Not by today's standards and not likely by any. I guess once he gets the locomotive chugging, and more coal gets shoveled in, he eventually gets up to some sort of "speed." Like I said, he's smart and I value that, but c'mon, "fast"? Also, he's not in shape. He's gassed after 5 seconds at full "speed" and spends the rest of the shift doing all the good things a smart two way player can do. Hooray. Sure but I wouldn't categorize him as slow either. And I would hope he would come into camp in good shape if he is signed though. One step at a time for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Sure but I wouldn't categorize him as slow either. In other words, you agree: not fast. Medium. Meh. I want speed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Podein25 said: In other words, you agree: not fast. Medium. Meh. I want speed! Too bad Lehtera's not coming back. He'd hook a brotha up! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Ok, I'm all done on this subject. I hope I eat crow on every one of my words. I'm sure he will score 60. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 I like this move. Realistically, there was Hayes, Duchene, and Nelson as 2C. I think Pavelski would have been great, but probably resigns in SJ. Karlsson would cost some high value assets. I'd rather Hayes at 6x6 than Duchene at 7x9, which is probably around where he'll get. It makes the team better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 18 minutes ago, Podein25 said: I want speed! Well that will cost you a few assets and about 8-9mill per season if not more and if you want to just that guy then it will be Duchene and no assets but still you see where I am going with this. You Canuckers always wanting your poutine and wanting to eat it too. Sorry. It's Trump's fault. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 16 minutes ago, Podein25 said: I'm sure he will score 60. He's no Jeff Carter! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 43 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: You Canuckers always wanting your poutine and wanting to eat it too. Lol So to summarize: we can have fast and dumb (see Fata, Rico) or slow and smart? I guess I will go with slow and smart for $7M Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 15 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Lol So to summarize: we can have fast and dumb (see Fata, Rico) or slow and smart? I guess I will go with slow and smart for $7M Alex. BINGO! Tell him what he's won Alex... I would prefer to go 7M × 4 than 6M × 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Ok, well there's that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, brelic said: Ok, well there's that... Yes. But I prefer a 4 or 5 year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 30 minutes ago, brelic said: Ok, well there's that... More winning. So much winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Yes. But I prefer a 4 or 5 year deal. Sure, but that's not likely the reality. If I had to make a guess, he would not sign a 4 or 5 year deal because he can be reasonably confident of getting a 6-7 year deal after July 1. Yes, Fletch can let him walk, and all it cost was a 5th. But then who do you get for your 2C? In-house is not an option (at least not one I think the organization is comfortable with). They're not starting the year with Patrick as 2C and Frost as 3C. So then you almost need to sign Duchene - the only clearly better (offensive) UFA center. And you're betting against all other NHL teams, including his rumoured landing spot in Nashville. He bought property there. But all that aside, if Fletch were to sign Duchene, it would be 7x9ish, taking him to 35 years old. Is that better than Hayes at 6x6? Say Fletch strikes out on Duchene, then returns to Hayes, who now has a 7x42 year offer on the table that Fletch has to match or beat. I get 'preferences' but they matter little when faced with reality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) Prediction: $45M over 7 years ($6.43M AAV) EDIT: which is, like, a bargain. Apparently. Edited June 4, 2019 by Podein25 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, brelic said: Sure, but that's not likely the reality. If I had to make a guess, he would not sign a 4 or 5 year deal because he can be reasonably confident of getting a 6-7 year deal after July 1. Yes, Fletch can let him walk, and all it cost was a 5th. But then who do you get for your 2C? In-house is not an option (at least not one I think the organization is comfortable with). They're not starting the year with Patrick as 2C and Frost as 3C. So then you almost need to sign Duchene - the only clearly better (offensive) UFA center. And you're betting against all other NHL teams, including his rumoured landing spot in Nashville. He bought property there. But all that aside, if Fletch were to sign Duchene, it would be 7x9ish, taking him to 35 years old. Is that better than Hayes at 6x6? Say Fletch strikes out on Duchene, then returns to Hayes, who now has a 7x42 year offer on the table that Fletch has to match or beat. I get 'preferences' but they matter little when faced with reality. No if you're going to make me choose between those scenarios then I will take the 6×6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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