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Jets trade Kevin Hayes to Flyers


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On 6/8/2019 at 9:23 PM, Podein25 said:

 

Ok fair enough I guess. But Hayes was out of shape when he was traded to the Jets. And has a bit of a history with it, so if I'm Flecth I'm asking the tough questions...

I hear you.  It's a concern of mine as well.

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On 6/9/2019 at 9:24 AM, CoachX said:

I dont see it as "looking bad" or a "major fail".

Coming out of FA without a 2C will be a major fail.  And Hayes is really the only option in FA.  Duchene reportedly has his sights set on other teams and no one else fits the bill of a 2C.  So, I think not landing Hayes would be a major disappointment.  And Hayes and his agent know this and will hold Fletcher over a barrel.  Now, they can't overplay their hand, but they hold all the leverage.  

 

It's obviously possible to try to make a deal for a 2C at the draft if Hayes isn't going to sign.  I just don't have a lot of confidence that they will be able to accomplish that.  Plus, they would have to give up an asset to do so.

 

On 6/9/2019 at 9:24 AM, CoachX said:

The team defined the player they want and dealt a meaningless pick to secure a chance to sign him.

Giving up the pick doesn't bother me in the least.  I appreciate the aggressiveness and the willingness to put themselves in the best position possible to get "their guy."  It's the right move.

 

On 6/9/2019 at 9:24 AM, CoachX said:

Im quite certain they already have plan B, and C in place.

Plans B and C are rarely as good as plan A.  That's what concerns me.

 

On 6/9/2019 at 9:24 AM, CoachX said:

I also think they had a real strong feel in whether they could sign the guy, otherwise they wouldnt have done it

I hope so.  Even if not, I still think it makes sense to make the move.

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10 hours ago, vis said:

Coming out of FA without a 2C will be a major fail.  And Hayes is really the only option in FA. 

 

To me, it's more about finding the right fit. It seems that Hayes has attributes that would be attractive in a long term deal - like the ability to drop back to 3C if, say, Patrick takes a step or two forward.

 

But is that what he's looking for? And, in that situation, do the Flyers want/need a $6-7M 3C for the last 3-4 years of a 6-7 year deal? Also, wouldn't surprise me if he was looking for some assurance he wouldn't be exposed to Seattle - like a NMC/NTC.

 

From where I sit, it's not a "major fail" if not overspending/overcommiting to the UFA 2C that happens to be available, puts you in a better position long term. That said, I do realize that the organization is in "playoffs or bust" mode.

 

A lot of open questions on this. As you know, I'm wary of fixing "next year's problem" with a 6-7 year deal. Looking at the other 2Cs even in the division, I'm not sure he is that much of an upgrade to make the Flyers serious competitors. Does he get you to the playoffs? I'd say he certainly helps your chances. But it's not like his addition to a fairly strong Winnipeg team brought them to the next level.

 

 

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13 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah, that's kind of what I was envisioning.  I would be interested in Strahlman.  Girardi could be the "veteran voice" if all else fails, but at this point I'm not sure he's an upgrade from McDud.

 

Honestly, I don't see the point in either of those guys. They're both middling dmen at this point in their careers, and they're not getting any younger. I also don't think just adding some mid-30s dman who has never really been that good is going to suddenly make our kids any better. I think adding a vet can be good if they were at some point very skilled and if they remain a good leader (Jagr was a perfect example), but neither Stralman or Girardi are the first thing, and there's really no telling if they're the second thing either.

 

Again, why just add pieces to add pieces, especially if they're aging pieces that are unlikely to have any measurable impact on the ice? The coaches should be able to provide whatever it is those two are expected to bring with regards to guidance. If they can't, then they're garbage coaches anyway, and we have a much bigger problem on our hands. 

 

The only real advantage those guys have for us right now is that they're likely to be cheap acquisitions as UFAs. Neither of them command any real value, so we could probably just use them as plugs for a year or two at very low salary. Is it worth it though just to be saddled with another potential McDud? 

 

Don't get me wrong, both Girardi and Stralman were and probably still are better than Mcdud, but that's a pretty low bar. My honest guess is those guys would be asked to play way more than they rightly should, and we'd all be frustrated as hell come xmas when AV refuses to reduce their ice time despite glaring weaknesses in their game. Even on the cheap, it feels an awful lot like a waste of effort and money to me.

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One other thing that’s smart about trading for Hayes’ rights is that they should have a real good idea at the draft if he’s going to sign at the price the Flyers are willing to pay.  It takes the guesswork out of what to do at the draft.  If he’s willing to sign, then no need to explore a trade for a 2C at the draft, which is the most likely time ahead of the season for a trade to be made.  If he’s not, the the Flyers know they need to move on to Plan B and begin working the phones for a trade at the draft or consider upping the offer to Hayes.  They will have a little more clarity on how to approach meeting their needs at the draft.  

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7 minutes ago, vis said:

One other thing that’s smart about trading for Hayes’ rights is that they should have a real good idea at the draft if he’s going to sign at the price the Flyers are willing to pay.  It takes the guesswork out of what to do at the draft.  If he’s willing to sign, then no need to explore a trade for a 2C at the draft, which is the most likely time ahead of the season for a trade to be made.  If he’s not, the the Flyers know they need to move on to Plan B and begin working the phones for a trade at the draft or consider upping the offer to Hayes.  They will have a little more clarity on how to approach meeting their needs at the draft.  

 

I'm honestly hoping that "trading for Hayes" isn't the only option they are considering/pursuing.

 

Losing a fifth isn't a big deal and shouldn't require making a 6-7 year commitment.

 

I would hope for example that they at least kicked the tires on Karlsson in Vegas and Kadri in Tronno. Both teams are in cap hell and both those guys would (IMO) be an upgrade on Hayes. I get that there are potential issues with both, but there are obviously some "issues" with Hayes at this point as well.

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23 minutes ago, radoran said:

And, in that situation, do the Flyers want/need a $6-7M 3C for the last 3-4 years of a 6-7 year deal?

 

You think he would go for a JVR type deal?

 

5 ×7M 35M?

 

Just asking aloud?

 

I would be willing to give him more per year for lesser term.

 

Not sure he would be willing to do that.

 

He could be on the market against 32.

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26 minutes ago, radoran said:

But it's not like his addition to a fairly strong Winnipeg team brought them to the next level.

 

Sure but Winnipeg have him no help really on his wings either.

 

Perreault and the young Rolosovic (who may be good one day be good) was like bringing him to Philly and giving him Laughton and Raffl.

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24 minutes ago, vis said:

One other thing that’s smart about trading for Hayes’ rights is that they should have a real good idea at the draft if he’s going to sign at the price the Flyers are willing to pay.  It takes the guesswork out of what to do at the draft.  If he’s willing to sign, then no need to explore a trade for a 2C at the draft, which is the most likely time ahead of the season for a trade to be made.  If he’s not, the the Flyers know they need to move on to Plan B and begin working the phones for a trade at the draft or consider upping the offer to Hayes.  They will have a little more clarity on how to approach meeting their needs at the draft.  

 

I agree and Kadri could be option B.

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So no contract yet for Hayes.  This could potentially get very bad for Fletcher.

 

if they don’t come out of this off season with at least 2-3 shiny new pieces, it’s going to look very bad for Fletcher.  

 

This was supposed to be his TCB, we need a 2C, just get it over with so I can focus on 7/1 move.  

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18 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

You think he would go for a JVR type deal?

 

5 ×7M 35M?

 

Just asking aloud?

 

At which point I join you in bashing my head against the wall at the concept that a 27-year-old guy who has hit 20 goals once and 50 points once is a $7M player.

 

That's just begging for another lockout...

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36 minutes ago, vis said:

They will have a little more clarity on how to approach meeting their needs at the draft.  

 

This is the reason they gave up the 5th.

 

They have identified the guy they want.

 

They are proactive in getting to talk to him to see if they can get him to sign and the window that other teams can talk to him is on the 23rd.

 

If he doesn't sign on the 21st when the draft takes place is when you could see them move on to plan B and for example I just used Kadri.

 

Or they could go after a bigger deal like William Karlsson who is a RFA.

 

Or a Paquette from Tampa who is a RFA.

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6 minutes ago, King Knut said:

So no contract yet for Hayes.  This could potentially get very bad for Fletcher.

 

if they don’t come out of this off season with at least 2-3 shiny new pieces, it’s going to look very bad for Fletcher.  

 

This was supposed to be his TCB, we need a 2C, just get it over with so I can focus on 7/1 move.  

 

I wouldn't jump to conclusions so quick he is coming to town they have plenty of time to hammer something out.

 

And if not then they can move on to other plans.

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24 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I'm honestly hoping that "trading for Hayes" isn't the only option they are considering/pursuing.

 

Losing a fifth isn't a big deal and shouldn't require making a 6-7 year commitment.

 

I would hope for example that they at least kicked the tires on Karlsson in Vegas and Kadri in Tronno. Both teams are in cap hell and both those guys would (IMO) be an upgrade on Hayes. I get that there are potential issues with both, but there are obviously some "issues" with Hayes at this point as well.

 

Both players should cost significantly more than Hayes I’d think.  

 

To me the the main reason to lock in Hayes now is so you can focus on your other needs at the draft and on 7/1 and solidify for strategy for doing so.  

 

Its a good pan if Fletch can sign him. 

I’m not quite as keen on the “it’s okay because they get clarity” if they can’t sign him concept.  That 5th rounder should be more valuable than clarity.  Ask Oskar Lindblom. 

 

Sometimes a 5th round pick can make a big difference.  And sometimes it can be just enough sweetener to make a deal tasty enough for another GM to go for. (Or can make the cosmetic difference for said GM to be able to tell his bosses and fans that he got a good haul for the player he knows he doesn’t have cap room for... theoretically). 

 

Long story short, they need to sign HAYES. 

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6 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

At which point I join you in bashing my head against the wall at the concept that a 27-year-old guy who has hit 20 goals once and 50 points once is a $7M player.

 

That's just begging for another lockout...

 

It's either more per year with less term I think or a liner 6 or 7 year term as you said and we have a 3rd line center come 3 from now.

 

I know it's like asking would you rather be shot or stabbed....

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1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I wouldn't jump to conclusions so quick he is coming to town they have plenty of time to hammer something out.

 

And if not then they can move on to other plans.

 

I’m not jumping to conclusions.  Well maybe the conclusion that they’d locked in a deal before the trade, but nothing more.  I’m just on watch.  I’m like the Fire Marshall in the tower looking for fires.  And trying not to go crazy. 

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5 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

At which point I join you in bashing my head against the wall at the concept that a 27-year-old guy who has hit 20 goals once and 50 points once is a $7M player.

 

That's just begging for another lockout...

 

I mean, Skinner just hit a career high of 63 points and at age 27, got an 8 year, $9M/year contract. 

 

Voracek's contract looks like a bargain.

 

Hayes has versatility and can be used as 2/3 RW if someone better at C comes along. But until that actually happens, $6.5/7M is not the end of the world. People get hung up on salaries, but at the end of the day, I honestly don't care. I'm not in charge of the organization, and no one pays me to lose sleep over it. 


Are the Flyers better with Hayes than without him? I'd say that's an unequivocal yes. 

 

 

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Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

It's either more per year with less term I think or a liner 6 or 7 year term as you said and we have a 3rd line center come 3 from now.

 

I know it's like asking would you rather be shot or stabbed....

 

6-6.5 for 4 years

4.5-5 for 6 years

 

that’s the range i’m thinking. 

 

Realistically, he made about what I think he’s worth last year at just about 5million.  

Clearly the intention is not to have him be 2C for very long. 

 

The He hope (and it’s a realistic hope) is that Coots resigns for a career ending deal  at which point he will be the guy to shift bacon to 3C as he ages into his 30’s while Patty and Frosty and Farabee take over the lead dog slots with TK  for Coots, G and Jake. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Winnipeg gave up a roster player and a 1st rounder for 26 games of Hayes.

 

The 5th is a great use of the asset to get that negotiating window, even if Hayes doesn't sign. 

 

Homer would have given up a 2nd, so... progress.

 

I’m no fan of Homer’s but To be fair, Homer would have at least signed him first.  

 

The Jets made a deadline deal for a player they didn’t have a ton of use for.  

 

He’s a good player who had a really good year and an ok playoffs (despite the early exit). Now, To be fair it was a contract year and we know how those go.  I want him.  I remember he came up as a good choice a few months ago in one of the debates here and I supported it then. 

 

I’ll be pissed in we don’t sign him. I sincerely hope he will be signed to  a realistic contract. 

 

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21 minutes ago, brelic said:

Skinner just hit a career high of 63 points and at age 27, got an 8 year, $9M/year contract. 

 

Skinner just scored 40 goals playing alongside the other pillar of the Sabres - Eichel. That's as many as Voracek has in the past two years.

 

I do think Buffalo overpaid for Skinner, but I also think I'd rather overpay for a 30-40 goal scorer than a guy who hit 20+ once and 50+ points once - and not in the same year.

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26 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Long story short, they need to sign HAYES. 

 

Fundamentally disagree. Not in that I don't like Hayes, just that I don't see the need to sign him.

 

If they can work it out, great. If Hayes wants too much, I'd be willing to walk away.

 

I don't know that the organization will.

 

Of course, I'm old enough to remember when they had to sign MacDonald to a long term deal "because of what they gave up" and we can see how that worked out...

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3 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Skinner just scored 40 goals playing alongside the other pillar of the Sabres - Eichel. That's as many as Voracek has in the past two years.

 

I do think Buffalo overpaid for Skinner, but I also think I'd rather overpay for a 30-40 goal scorer than a guy who hit 20+ once and 50+ points once - and not in the same year.

 

Oh for sure... 40 goals is 40 goals. But I'd say Skinner has maybe 2-3 seasons of that kind of play, and then 5-6 years of, "he's an overpaid bum" from fans. 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, King Knut said:

6-6.5 for 4 years

4.5-5 for 6 years

 

That ain't getting it done my friend he is coming off of 5 mill per season I am sure he will be expecting a raise.

 

6-7mill at least.

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11 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I’m no fan of Homer’s but To be fair, Homer would have at least signed him first.  

 

The Jets made a deadline deal for a player they didn’t have a ton of use for.  

 

He’s a good player who had a really good year and an ok playoffs (despite the early exit). Now, To be fair it was a contract year and we know how those go.  I want him.  I remember he came up as a good choice a few months ago in one of the debates here and I supported it then. 

 

I’ll be pissed in we don’t sign him. I sincerely hope he will be signed to  a realistic contract. 

 

 

The only players they have dealt for their rights IIRC who have signed before July 1st is Kimmo and Hartnell.

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