Buffalo Rick Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/26923361/sabres-lock-f-skinner-8-year-extension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) Too much. They need to hurry now and win something because the doomsday clock just started ticking in Buffalo. Edited June 14, 2019 by ruxpin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 10 hours ago, ruxpin said: Too much. They need to hurry now and win something because the doomsday clock must started ticking in Buffalo. Well they should be better this year. But Botterill has two big things to do. Get a couple of forwards and replace Hutton. Not sure if Luukenen is part of the plan yet? I am not very confident in Hutton but I suppose he could have a better year? But I am not sure they are willing to give him the shot? I would prefer Jake Allen who is no doubt going to be available. And there are other names out there that should be available also 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 10 hours ago, ruxpin said: Too much. They need to hurry now and win something because the doomsday clock must started ticking in Buffalo. I agree i do think it is too much. But about where the market is set for him now. He is coming off a 40 goal season (7 which were game winners). He has averaged 32 goals over the last 4 years which make it sound decent i think. But when you average out his points i think it bring it into the light of him being overpaid. He put up 63 points last year which on the surface sounds solid. But he has averaged 56 points over the last 4 years and that to me to give a guy 9 mill per season for 56 is ludacris. 25% of which came on the man advantage. Imagine what Hayes might be thinking right now. Sorry i am in the party that think some of these salaries are just getting way out of hand. Even Stone's contract which he is coming off a 33 goal season is way out of hand. Which averages out to just 24 goals over the last 4 seasons. But at least he finally put up a 70 point season with a 73 point year. Which averages out to 62 points over the last 4 years...which is slightly better than Skinner's. Bottom line is 9 mil for 56 is crazy....hell even for 62 is is crazy as hell. I don't know how the Flyers are going to even be able to keep all these kids when they start to break out at this going rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Those NMC/NTC's are a bitch... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: I agree i do think it is too much. But about where the market is set for him now. Yeah,I agree the market commenet. It's not like they gave $9M to Steen or someone. And they can hardly just let him walk given both the season he had and what they traded to get him. And I agree with HJ that if they play him next to Eichel, that's one hell of a threat. The term scares the crap out of me, but he'll only be 35 at the end of it. He's not a banger so they should get some value out of it for most of the term (barring injury). My concern is ability to ice a team around them due to cap concerns. But I looked a little closely since I posted my comment and they're really in fairly good shape. It's manageable for sure. I'm with you, too, on your comments on the "state of the market." I'm guessing it will be "corrected" some in a couple years at the next lockout. By "corrected" I don't mean "fixed." More like a stock market correction. $9M for 56 is absurd. But when he can account for over 30 of them a year with goals, it starts to make a little (I said, "a little") more sense. If they're able to add other pieces on the top 9, he could actually go up from there for several years. The guy who has to licking his chops is Hall. Edited June 8, 2019 by ruxpin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 16 minutes ago, ruxpin said: The guy who has to licking his chops is Hall. Oh yeah and he is watching closely what the Devils do this offseason because he wants to play in a hockey market too and Jersey is not it. Yes Hall has to start the bid at 10 mill and go from there. He is from Calgary so maybe they should swap him for Johnny Hockey and both could be near their homes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 7 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said: I am not very confident in Hutton but I suppose he could have a better year? But I am not sure they are willing to give him the shot? I would prefer Jake Allen who is no doubt going to be available. You realize they got Hutton because he did a great job essentially replacing Allen? And that Binnington is now replacing Allen as well? Oh, and Hutton is still signed for two more years? Details... Details... If anything, Lehner showed that the "problem" is Buffalo isn't between the pipes - it's at the blue line. But, hey, they've got last year's entire blue line under contract (or RFA) coming into this year, so... winning? Skinner's a solid signing - perhaps a tad overpaid. But Buffalo had the space for it. Just have to hope that Eichel/Skinner is a solid foundation of the team, given that they're the Sabres "base" for the next eight years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 14 hours ago, radoran said: You realize they got Hutton because he did a great job essentially replacing Allen? And that Binnington is now replacing Allen as well? Oh, and Hutton is still signed for two more years? Details... Details... If anything, Lehner showed that the "problem" is Buffalo isn't between the pipes - it's at the blue line. But, hey, they've got last year's entire blue line under contract (or RFA) coming into this year, so... winning? Skinner's a solid signing - perhaps a tad overpaid. But Buffalo had the space for it. Just have to hope that Eichel/Skinner is a solid foundation of the team, given that they're the Sabres "base" for the next eight years... Reinhart is also part of this line and it should be one of the best lines in the NHL moving forward. They are still a young line. As for Hutton, I am disappointed in the year he had. Two games in a row he blew by dropping the puck into his own net! They do have this kid from Finland, so I am not sure if he is in the plans to get a shot or if he is going to Rochester for a while? If they are going to look outside, there are a bunch on the market that should be available including Quick. But the list is complicated right now. After the draft we get a better idea of what is going on. Lets not forget the draft. The Sabres are picking 7th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 https://www.nhl.com/sabres/fans/jeff-skinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I'm picking for the Sabres in the mock draft. Will probably trade it to Toronto for Marleau. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, radoran said: You realize they got Hutton because he did a great job essentially replacing Allen? And that Binnington is now replacing Allen as well? Oh, and Hutton is still signed for two more years? Details... Details... If anything, Lehner showed that the "problem" is Buffalo isn't between the pipes - it's at the blue line. But, hey, they've got last year's entire blue line under contract (or RFA) coming into this year, so... winning? Skinner's a solid signing - perhaps a tad overpaid. But Buffalo had the space for it. Just have to hope that Eichel/Skinner is a solid foundation of the team, given that they're the Sabres "base" for the next eight years... Just remember how great the history is in Buffalo with goalies. Hasek, Miller, Edwards, Sauve. Guys that came out of no where except Miller. I would not count the Finland goalie out. As for Ullmark, we know he is a carbo copy of Jhonas Enroth and Marty Biron. Great backup goalie. But that is it. Lehner sucks on shootouts. Period. Sucks. He really got them far vs Boston didn't he? Piece of crap. Botterill will get it solved. I wonder if Corey Perry is on his radar? Maybe Miller will give him a push? LOL Edited June 9, 2019 by Hockey Junkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 On 6/8/2019 at 10:04 AM, IllaZilla said: Those NMC/NTC's are a bitch... Well your team and your avatar go together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 On 6/8/2019 at 9:41 AM, OccamsRazor said: I agree i do think it is too much. But about where the market is set for him now. He is coming off a 40 goal season (7 which were game winners). He has averaged 32 goals over the last 4 years which make it sound decent i think. But when you average out his points i think it bring it into the light of him being overpaid. He put up 63 points last year which on the surface sounds solid. But he has averaged 56 points over the last 4 years and that to me to give a guy 9 mill per season for 56 is ludacris. 25% of which came on the man advantage. Imagine what Hayes might be thinking right now. Sorry i am in the party that think some of these salaries are just getting way out of hand. Even Stone's contract which he is coming off a 33 goal season is way out of hand. Which averages out to just 24 goals over the last 4 seasons. But at least he finally put up a 70 point season with a 73 point year. Which averages out to 62 points over the last 4 years...which is slightly better than Skinner's. Bottom line is 9 mil for 56 is crazy....hell even for 62 is is crazy as hell. I don't know how the Flyers are going to even be able to keep all these kids when they start to break out at this going rate. I think $32 Million a year for a QB who is hurt and cant finish a season is worse than $9 million to a guy like Skinner. Its fine with you spin artists to say Wentz is worth $32 Million a year and Skinner is not worth $9 million a year. I know the balance in football, baseball and basketball is uneven with hockey, but hell. Yes Hockey players deserve more and football and the rest deserve less IMO> Wentz is far more risky than Skinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said: Just remember how great the history is in Buffalo with goalies. Hasek, Miller, Edwards, Sauve. Really, HJ. This isn't remotely relevant. Parent, Lindbergh, Hextall didn't make Neuvirth a good goalie. Or Elliott. Or Mrazek, or.... What's relevant is current management, coaching, and defefense. The coach is changing, so there's that, but that hasn't really mattered. Largely, it's defense, followed by a management that keeps making odd decisions. Hutton was an odd choice for a starter given that he's been a career backup. But, he appeared ready to take the step and it's not like he's the first ever backup goalie that a team has taken a chance on. Marty Biron and the Flyers are a great example. Talbot is another. There's a ton. And some have worked out. So, really, it's the "not ready for prime time" defense that is the biggest culprit. Under Housley, it's possible it's not just about defenseMEN, but maybe team defense as a whole. I know overall the team defense wasn't good, but I don't watch enough Sabres' games to have a legitimate opinion on where the issue is. My guess is that it's both. 33 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said: Lehner sucks on shootouts. Period. Sucks. He really got them far vs Boston didn't he? The first sentence. Yes, I agree. He's not good on shootouts. I'm not sure, though, that it's fair to throw failure against a Cup finalist against him. I mean, the wheels starting coming off of the Isles down the stretch. The Flyers beat them--handily--at least twice. I think they finally beat the Flyers in their last meeting when Philly was completely flat-lined. Trotz did a great job with that team, but the truth is they were playing well over their skill level. When the games got bigger and other teams started tightening up, skill vs. skill became more important. The Isles aren't there yet. But the point is that Lehner played better and had better numbers than at any time on the Sabres. A lot of that was the team system and defense in front of him. You probably agree about system because you'd been calling for Housley's head for quite awhile. As a Flyers' fan, I know how much someone saying "be patient" sucks. It's worse for the Sabres' fans, I think, because at least the Flyers accidentally fell into the playoffs once or twice and gave some the delusion they had any kind of chance. As much as it sucks to hear it, I do think they are up and coming. They need help on defense yet. And they probably need one or two more top six players and to shore up the bottom six. Similar to the Flyers, actually. I'm with you that I don't think Hutton is the answer. But I think he was always a stop gap until Luukkonen is ready. I don't think Hutton nor Ullmark were really the reason for the drop off from December(ish) on; I think what went on with Patrik Berglund was a bigger hole in the lineup and a gut punch to the locker room than what some--myself included--thought. It sucked. But I think that's how close they are to legitimately causing noise. I'd like to see them decide whether they're playing Risto and Dahlin together or splitting them up. If they're playing them together (not my preferred choice, but it could work), then I want to shore up the second pair with Montour. If they're splitting, I want someone strong to play next to Dahlin. And a strong 2nd line center. Mittelstadt will be that, but I don't think he's there yet. I'd like to see him at 3C to thrive and learn the game against slightly lesser opponents. At the very least, get a strong 3C so that Mittlelstadt gets better wingers but make it like a 2a and 2b line set up. I'd probably hold out with the goalies you have until the Luukko is ready. Keep on of Linus or Hutton to split time with Luukko and use the other for a decent trade piece or to expose to Seattle (not my preference). I actually think Botterill is doing an okay job. There's things I haven't agreed with, but all in all I think they're heading in the right direction. Allen would be a mistake. He's been horrible for years and is getting worse. I personally think Armstrong has destroyed the guy, but he no longer looks like an NHL goalie. He looks a lot like Steve Mason. I don't think he could stop a taxi at this point. I almost forgot: I don't like the Corey Perry idea. The guy was great in his time, but his playing style has broken him down to the point where he's injured more than he's healthy and is not really effective when he is healthy. He only has two remaining years on a horrific cap hit (for his production), so if you're going to trade for him, you present it to the Ducks as cap relief and make them give you a near-ready prospect to compensate you. Now that I think about it, if Buffalo has the cap room, I might actually do that. At the very least, you get a vet in the locker room for two years and you get a near-ready prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said: I think $32 Million a year for a QB who is hurt and cant finish a season is worse than $9 million to a guy like Skinner. Its fine with you spin artists to say Wentz is worth $32 Million a year and Skinner is not worth $9 million a year. I know the balance in football, baseball and basketball is uneven with hockey, but hell. Yes Hockey players deserve more and football and the rest deserve less IMO> Wentz is far more risky than Skinner. $32 million a year for anyone not saving lives as part of their job is absurd. But that's the market. Same on both counts with $9M. Skinner is worth $9M in today's market. I mean, if you have the cap space, do it, because someone else is sure as hell going to. If Botterill said, "Nah, I'm standing on principle; that's too much!" and let him walk and he went to the Isles or Detroit or wherever, Buffalo fans should have grabbed torches and run him out--justifiably. Because the Sabres are getting close to where you can say, "they're x, y and z away from being a legitimate playoff team and maybe more." You let a cog like that go and set yourself back like that? Yeah, I think it's foolishness. By the way, you could argue similarly for Wentz. Given we had the Foles option, maybe it's not as strong an argument. But it's also been a long time since Foles has played a whole season. The Foles/Wentz argument always read to me, "get rid of the all-star starter because we have the all-star relief pitcher." Not a great analogy, but I'll stick with it. Once they decided to let Foles walk, they have to sign Wentz or they're soon blowing a hole in the team and starting over. It may happen anyway, but I, for one, am not ready! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said: I think $32 Million a year for a QB who is hurt and cant finish a season is worse than $9 million to a guy like Skinner. Its why you know nothing. Rodgers is making more than Wentz and can't stay healthy. Injuries happen. it's the NFL. We'll see what Josh Allen gets in a few years and won't even be able to get to the playoffs. He will be wanting 40 mill per season it goes up after every contract is signed except Wentz he is now the just the 5th highest per season. Think about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 35 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Its why you know nothing. Rodgers is making more than Wentz and can't stay healthy. Injuries happen. it's the NFL. We'll see what Josh Allen gets in a few years and won't even be able to get to the playoffs. He will be wanting 40 mill per season it goes up after every contract is signed except Wentz he is now the just the 5th highest per season. Think about that. I know nothing? Because I said something negative about your beloved QB? And him being overpaid also? No, I know more than you think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 40 minutes ago, ruxpin said: $32 million a year for anyone not saving lives as part of their job is absurd. But that's the market. Same on both counts with $9M. Skinner is worth $9M in today's market. I mean, if you have the cap space, do it, because someone else is sure as hell going to. If Botterill said, "Nah, I'm standing on principle; that's too much!" and let him walk and he went to the Isles or Detroit or wherever, Buffalo fans should have grabbed torches and run him out--justifiably. Because the Sabres are getting close to where you can say, "they're x, y and z away from being a legitimate playoff team and maybe more." You let a cog like that go and set yourself back like that? Yeah, I think it's foolishness. By the way, you could argue similarly for Wentz. Given we had the Foles option, maybe it's not as strong an argument. But it's also been a long time since Foles has played a whole season. The Foles/Wentz argument always read to me, "get rid of the all-star starter because we have the all-star relief pitcher." Not a great analogy, but I'll stick with it. Once they decided to let Foles walk, they have to sign Wentz or they're soon blowing a hole in the team and starting over. It may happen anyway, but I, for one, am not ready! LOL Its too soon for me to really say what this team will look like in two months. You cannot possible know what yours will look like yet either? Lets wait until the draft is over and in fact, these playoffs. For a guy that knows nothing, that would be me according to OR, I did a pretty good job of taking down this forum once again in the playoffs pool. That is 2 for 2. No matter what the Blues do. And I expect them to win the Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 26 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said: I know nothing? Because I said something negative about your beloved QB? And him being overpaid also? No, I know more than you think He is not overplayed he is below market value so yeah it show you know nothing. You know the old saying Rick it's better to be considered a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt? We that is you sometimes my friend. Own it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said: Its too soon for me to really say what this team will look like in two months. You cannot possible know what yours will look like yet either? Lets wait until the draft is over and in fact, these playoffs. For a guy that knows nothing, that would be me according to OR, I did a pretty good job of taking down this forum once again in the playoffs pool. That is 2 for 2. No matter what the Blues do. And I expect them to win the Cup Well, you called the Blues because you always do. And you've called the Caps for years. So finally being right is not a huge accomplishment in this case. But, you were right where many were wrong, so there's that. I didn't call the Caps because I didn't recognize how they were different from previous failures. I did realize it with the Blues coming down the stretch and was fairly confident of my "Blues!" call before the playoffs started. I mean, they haven't won yet, but they've already made it a lot further than probably 95% of the hockey world outside of St. Louis (and even some in) thought. And yeah, I'm not guessing what either team will look like in 2 months. I'm only talking in terms of where they are NOW and what I think needs to be done. If I'm the Sabres, because I have Luukko coming, goaltending is not my top priority. I want to shore up the defense, in particular, so that Luukko isn't shellshocked when he gets there. I would have preferred that with Carter Hart, too. It doesn't always happen that way. Hart did okay considering. There's no reason to think Luukko won't do well, too. I just want to give him (Hart or Luukko, works for either) as many tools to succeed as I can. By the way, I really am picking for Buffalo (both first round picks) in the mock draft. Probably just taking best player available at #7, though I don't think "best player" is actually clear at #7. The Sabres' system looks like its pretty even across the board, so no reason to pick for position. At #30 or #31, if Spencer Knight (goalie) is still on the board , I'll be very tempted. In 4-5 years, Knight and Luukko will be competing for the crease--probably about the time Luukko is ready to cash in. Edited June 9, 2019 by ruxpin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Well, you called the Blues because you always do. And you've called the Caps for years. So finally being right is not a huge accomplishment in this case. But, you were right where many were wrong, so there's that. I didn't call the Caps because I didn't recognize how they were different from previous failures. I did realize it with the Blues coming down the stretch and was fairly confident of my "Blues!" call before the playoffs started. I mean, they haven't won yet, but they've already made it a lot further than probably 95% of the hockey world outside of St. Louis (and even some in) thought. And yeah, I'm not guessing what either team will look like in 2 months. I'm only talking in terms of where they are NOW and what I think needs to be done. If I'm the Sabres, because I have Luukko coming, goaltending is not my top priority. I want to shore up the defense, in particular, so that Luukko isn't shellshocked when he gets there. I would have preferred that with Carter Hart, too. It doesn't always happen that way. Hart did okay considering. There's no reason to think Luukko won't do well, too. I just want to give him (Hart or Luukko, works for either) as many tools to succeed as I can. By the way, I really am picking for Buffalo (both first round picks) in the mock draft. Probably just taking best player available at #7, though I don't think "best player" is actually clear at #7. The Sabres' system looks like its pretty even across the board, so no reason to pick for position. At #30 or #31, if Spencer Knight (goalie) is still on the board , I'll be very tempted. In 4-5 years, Knight and Luukko will be competing for the crease--probably about the time Luukko is ready to cash in. They need second line forwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said: They need second line forwards Yeah, I agree with that. My thought was draft the D (Broberg, maybe) and trade for the forwards. My other thought was Caufield at #7. There's some risk given his size, but if you put him on the right side of Eichel and Skinner, you could have 3 players on the same line with 40-50 goals. Or two with 40-50 and Eichel with a kazillion assists. Or, a complete misfire (size). If Matthew Boldy is still there, he may be my other thought. Unless a top 4-5 player oddly drops. He's a left-winger, though, so as long as Skinner is there, Boldy would probably be projected for the 2nd line, which is fine. Mittelstadt with Boldy could be very good in 2-3 years. In any case, yeah, I think you need 2nd line forwards and defensemen. I like Broberg, by the way. He could be a Hedman-type or even a Klingberg. He could be top pair or be a significant 2nd pair. The plus side is that, like Rasmus Dahlin, he's Swedish. So maybe (maybe) some chemistry. The down side could be drafting a defenseman with your first pick two years in a row. Not sure. Edited June 9, 2019 by ruxpin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said: Well your team and your avatar go together No doubt! The Wild have to be one of the most screwed up teams right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Rick Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 37 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Yeah, I agree with that. My thought was draft the D (Broberg, maybe) and trade for the forwards. My other thought was Caufield at #7. There's some risk given his size, but if you put him on the right side of Eichel and Skinner, you could have 3 players on the same line with 40-50 goals. Or two with 40-50 and Eichel with a kazillion assists. Or, a complete misfire (size). If Matthew Boldy is still there, he may be my other thought. Unless a top 4-5 player oddly drops. He's a left-winger, though, so as long as Skinner is there, Boldy would probably be projected for the 2nd line, which is fine. Mittelstadt with Boldy could be very good in 2-3 years. In any case, yeah, I think you need 2nd line forwards and defensemen. I like Broberg, by the way. He could be a Hedman-type or even a Klingberg. He could be top pair or be a significant 2nd pair. The plus side is that, like Rasmus Dahlin, he's Swedish. So maybe (maybe) some chemistry. The down side could be drafting a defenseman with your first pick two years in a row. Not sure. I actually think with Risto, Dahlin and Begosian and McCabe we are not that bad on D. We need forwards far more. Middlestadt had a good year for a young kid, Svobotka probably wish's he was along for the ride in St Louis. He is a guy that works and can get pucks out of the corner and kill penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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