Trade: Gudas traded for Niskanen

[OccamsRazor]

This is what i want is a guy who can creep down low and help support the puck and actually get the shot on net...

 

 

...just didn't see Gudas do this much he usually stops a the the top of the blueline, maybe it was his lack of speed to be able to get back

 

Even down low around the goal mouth...you just have to be able to find the puck...

 

 

...i just think Niskanen can do more to help with offense...

 

 

...and can even skate it in if he has too...fast foward to 1:52 mark...right through Fyers defense and Mason...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1im0q1nebq4

 

Sure it's risky they have 5 D men under contract right now and i think they have more moves...we'll see what is up next...

 

 

 

[CoachX]

But your argument seems to be solely based that experience is everything. And the benchmark is five plus years.  I think you need to look at what the players are, and what they are capable of. Ghost had a down year on a team that ranked 23 on the pp. So of course his stats will be low, the team sucked. But he has been a top player since his first full season and I have no problem giving him more responsibility. I feel the same way about Provo. If they are in a playoff hunt come midseason, i think they have to consider a move. But I dont think it will be on defense

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

but you didn’t add any more experience.

 

How do you figure???

 

Gudas had 416 NHL games. And +11

 

Niskanen had 881 games. And +97.

 

Plus that shiny Cup he helped win. Is the intangible experience they seek too.

 

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

He also has the beat out Haag.

 

This i don't think is a huge task. I would be shocked if Hagg is a trade chip shipped out in the next few weeks.

 

Hagg has quite a few flaws. And is replaceable by Morin and maybe even a right hand shot in Friedman.

 

5 D men on the roster today....i think something else will take place soon. Ghost and Hagg both could be used.

 

Provorov/???????

Sanheim/Niskanen

Morin/Myers

 

It wouldn't shocked me completely if this was the the blueline to start. Stay tuned.

 

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

I think we still go after Trouba , but only for the right price.

 

Could this be the top pair guy they seek??? I won't say no chance...

 

Provorov/Trouba

Sanheim/Niskanen

Morin/Myers

 

A right hand shot on every pair???Most balance i have ever seen.

 

Ivan and Matt would be the smallest D men at 6-1.

 

Thinking a loud.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by OccamsRazor
some nice size on the backend

[ruxpin]

30 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Could this be the top pair guy they seek??? I won't say no chance...

 

Provorov/Trouba

Sanheim/Niskanen

Morin/Myers

 

A right hand shot on every pair???Most balance i have ever seen.

 

Ivan and Matt would be the smallest D men at 6-1.

 

Thinking a loud.

 

I'm okay with it.

 

I might flip Niskanen and Myers.   I don't know that I really want to relegate Niskanen to the 3rd pair, but Sanheim/Myers and Morin/Niskanen, I think, mixes sizes and skill-sets a little better.  Plus, the Morin/Myers pair looks awfully green and--this isn't a horrible thing--awfully huge.   

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I might flip Niskanen and Myers.

 

I could see that being the case by the mid point of next season give Myers a chance to work his way up the lineup.

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

  Plus, the Morin/Myers pair looks awfully green and--this isn't a horrible thing--awfully huge. 

 

Sure but they would only be play around 12-15 minutes a night to start against talent they should be able to handle.

 

Two towering defensemen who move very very well. Not Hatcher and GrossmanN.

Edited June 16, 2019 by OccamsRazor

[OccamsRazor]

50 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I'm okay with it.

 

I might flip Niskanen and Myers.   I don't know that I really want to relegate Niskanen to the 3rd pair, but Sanheim/Myers and Morin/Niskanen, I think, mixes sizes and skill-sets a little better.  Plus, the Morin/Myers pair looks awfully green and--this isn't a horrible thing--awfully huge.   

 

 

Sounds like if he plays his cards right Myers could be given the keys to the top 4.

 

"We're bullish on Philippe Myers' upside," Fletcher said Saturday in a conference call.

 

Puck is on his stick. What will he do with it?

[CoachX]

Ghost wont be traded...book it!

[RonJeremy]

@OccamsRazor, sure Niskanen has more experience  and credentials over Gudas but we still traded  a veteran for a veteran . So its still 5 young  guys with one vet. Two of which, Meyers and Morin have about 20 games experience between them. Niskanen  if paired with Provo, how does this help Meyers or Morin while on the ice?  You need one more steady and stable veteran to play next to the most inexperienced guy.

 

Niskanen can be a factor on the bench or locker room. In todays NHL, one bad goal from a young defenseman is the difference between winning and losing a game. Morin and Meyers are gonna make alot of rookie mistakes, Ghost is not exactly a defensive stalwart, so having a stable veteran to cover for a young guys mistakes is very important. I still think we are offering Ghost for Trouba or some other skilled veteran. 

[ruxpin]

49 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Ghost wont be traded...book it!

So, I guess the question remains, where is Ghost being traded to?  

[ctid]

Why not just keep ghost with provo and niskanen with sanheim. Let sanheim join the rush and niskanen stays back. Morin/Haag with Meyers 

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Two of which, Meyers and Morin have about 20 games experience between them.

 

Sure ok.

 

But the only way to get experience is ya know uh play?

 

You don't come out the womb with experience.

 

That my friend is earned.

 

No better time than the presence.

[RonJeremy]

32 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sure ok.

 

But the only way to get experience is ya know uh play?

 

You don't come out the womb with experience.

 

That my friend is earned.

 

No better time than the presence.

Sure , I agree and I do want to see these guys play, but being realistic, Hexy was fired for not having enough sense of urgency in building the team . So are they gonna put such an inexperienced defense out there? I really dont think so. I cant see them throwing Meyers and Morin into the fire. I guess we will gind out soon enough. Considering how bad our defense was last year, is Niskanen that much of an improvement to make a huge impact on our defense? Because we need a huge improvement. Holmgren and the others are in a we are goid enough to contend now..

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, ctid said:

Why not just keep ghost with provo and niskanen with sanheim. Let sanheim join the rush and niskanen stays back. Morin/Haag with Meyers 

Morin and Meyers together is a recpie for disaster,  two rookies with 20 games combined experience. You have to pair a rookie with a vet..

[OccamsRazor]

41 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Sure , I agree and I do want to see these guys play, but being realistic, Hexy was fired for not having enough sense of urgency in building the team . So are they gonna put such an inexperienced defense out there? I really dont think so. I cant see them throwing Meyers and Morin into the fire. I guess we will gind out soon enough. Considering how bad our defense was last year, is Niskanen that much of an improvement to make a huge impact on our defense? Because we need a huge improvement. Holmgren and the others are in a we are goid enough to contend now..

 

I think there is another move to be made that is coming.

[RonJeremy]

Absolutely, i think we are targeting Trouba for Ghost but , we need a contract worked out or its no deal.  You dont trade Ghost of Trouba doesn't sign a long term deal.If Hayes doesnt sign, then Ghost may have to be traded for a center. What happens with FA signings will be a big factor on who we trade and what we get back. We need to steal a RFA , sign an UFA and make one trade. That way we dont give up too many asset's. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by RonJeremy

[elmatus]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

Absolutely, i think we are targeting Trouba for Ghost

 

I hope not. Trouba's fine and all, but Ghost is better. He's better offensively, and he has better possession and defensive metrics to boot. Not only that, but Ghost is on a better contract. Really the only thing Trouba does better than Ghost is hit things. That's fine and all, but we have no shortage of hitters already. What Ghost brings in terms of raw skill is much harder to replace.

 

If Ghost is moved, my guess is it'll be for a 2C because Hayes refused to sign. I don't think it makes much sense to ship him out for another dman. We're almost guaranteed to get the bad end of the deal if we do that.

 

I should note that I do like Trouba and would be fine with us getting him. I just think trading Ghost for him would be a mistake. If Fletch can get him some other way, I'm all for it. Mind you, I heard some rumours claiming he was asking upwards of 7M, which to me seems ridiculous. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by elmatus

[RonJeremy]

What's even more ridiculous is Hayes wants 7 million. Our best bet might be to forget Hayes, and move G to second line center, move Patrick to third line and let Frost, Farabee and Rubstov battle for a left wing spot. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by RonJeremy

[CoachX]

7 hours ago, ruxpin said:

So, I guess the question remains, where is Ghost being traded to?  

Rude!

[CoachX]

If i understood him correctly, Meltzer indicsted that buying out McDonald offset the money taken on by the Gudas trade. If thats true, then Fletch obviously had a plan which made the defense better by adding a better player and dumping a poor excuse for a player

 

Pretty clever!

[elmatus]

6 minutes ago, CoachX said:

If i understood him correctly, Meltzer indicsted that buying out McDonald offset the money taken on by the Gudas trade. If thats true, then Fletch obviously had a plan which made the defense better by adding a better player and dumping a poor excuse for a player

 

Pretty clever!

 

Again, Niskanen really isn't that much better. In fact, at his age and with the season he had last year, he may very well be worse. That said, this remains a wash to me until proven differently. I don't hate the trade, but I don't think this is a big trade by any standard. It's a meh.

 

This forum is suffering an awful lot from blame everyone syndrome. Gudas was one of our better dmen last season. And yeah, that's partially because both Provo and Ghost had down years, but it's still something of note. He revamped his usual game and still managed to be relatively effective when compared to others on the team. Niskanen is generally better offensively, which is nice. But a straight up "who's better" comparison is a hard sell.

 

I'm fine with the trade, but I'm not excited by it either. I want to see a trade that actually makes this team measurably better, and this just isn't that. I'm hoping we do see one in the next bit.

Edited June 17, 2019 by elmatus

[elmatus]

Let's say Hayes doesn't sign, either because he wants too much, or just because he'd rather play in NYC or whatever. And let's say Ghost now becomes the chip to get us our 2C. Who would we have as options in that case to target?

 

W. Karlsson? They're cap strapped and he's an RFA. I worry he's going to get a ton of money and not live up to the contract mind you, but he should be on the short list for sure.

 

Turris? Seems unlikely as Nashville is still contending, and they're already trying to move Subban to give cap space. I do like Turris, though he's not a gamebreaker by any means. He'd be just as serviceable as Hayes. Of course, if the price to get Turris is Ghost, I think we could do better elsewhere.

 

Stepan? The Yotes would have to sweeten the pot and send something else with Stepan to even out to Ghost imo, but that's very doable for a team with a bunch of talented and underperforming players. It would leave them even weaker at center than they currently are mind you, but honestly I don't think this team cares much about winning anyway.

 

Point? I highly doubt it after the monster season he had. I would imagine TB will do everything they can to lock him up for some term. Still, it's worth mentioning here. Point is another one, sort of like Karlsson, who could end up being an overpayment based one one very good year. In fact, he's stands to get even higher salary given his good year was just this last one. I personally think he is an elite player though. Anyway, food for thought.

 

Kadri? Toronto is in cap hell with a bunch of key players to sign. Kadri is almost guaranteed to move somewhere, so why not here? It may not even take Ghost to get him, which is great. That said, he doesn't have the potential upside of a Point or Karlsson, so there is that to consider.

 

Getzlaf? It sounds ridiculous, but Getzlaf is in his bottom nine right now with two years left on a pretty big contract. Anaheim is in the gutter and highly likely to go full rebuild starting next season. Is there value in grabbing a guy who was an elite level center for much of his career and put him in a lesser role as a 2C? Is it worth losing Ghost for a guy like 34 year old Getzlaf? Would Anaheim part with him for less than Ghost?

Edited June 17, 2019 by elmatus

[vis]

10 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Let's say Hayes doesn't sign, either because he wants too much, or just because he'd rather play in NYC or whatever. And let's say Ghost now becomes the chip to get us our 2C. Who would we have as options in that case to target?

I have a feeling they will make a trade and I think Karlsson or Kadri are likely targets.  Otherwise, they end up with a consolation prize in UFA.  Does a guy like Marcus Johansson interest anyone as a 3C?  You'd have to hope for the best that Patrick could play the 2C role.  If he can't and they end up trading for a C during the season, they could move Johansson to wing.  Seems a bit messy, though.

[elmatus]

5 minutes ago, vis said:

I have a feeling they will make a trade and I think Karlsson or Kadri are likely targets.  Otherwise, they end up with a consolation prize in UFA.  Does a guy like Marcus Johansson interest anyone as a 3C?  You'd have to hope for the best that Patrick could play the 2C role.  If he can't and they end up trading for a C during the season, they could move Johansson to wing.  Seems a bit messy, though.

 

Karlsson would need Ghost for sure. I'm not sure Kadri would though. In fact, I don't think it would be a good move frankly to trade Ghost for Kadri. But if Fletch can get Kadri for cheaper than that, why not? He's a lot like Hayes really. Either one can plug away as reasonable 2Cs for a few while Patrick (hopefully) figures things out.

 

I like Johansson as well. He's a solid third liner who can play on the wing, and we're in need of a RW anyway with Simmer gone. If Fletch can get him without overpayment, I think he'd be worth getting for that purpose.

[brelic]

I have a feeling that Hayes will either be signed by Friday or his rights flipped to another team at the draft to recoup the late round pick. They'll know by then if "not his 1st choice Philly" stands any chance at signing him.