OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 42 minutes ago, CoachX said: Where did the Marner thing come from? Is it legit or just fantasy rumor? Just rux's wet dream...nothing more. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 54 minutes ago, CoachX said: Maybe this takes some pressure off the kid. Its been argued that he was rushed. Now he can relax, learn his role under a new and develop his game. Hayes is now the guy who has to live up to the contract Sounds like a sound idea to me. If it was a year or two, sure. 7 years? This is the Homer way of building...."Oh, look a UFA...how much do you want and how long? I'll double that and throw in a 2nd!" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 14 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Aaaaannnnnnd it's official....Fletcher is a total f****** asshole! At least your GM hasn’t traded half the team for a half eaten corn dog and a box of popcorn... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, IllaZilla said: At least your GM hasn’t traded half the team for a half eaten corn dog and a box of popcorn... Yet. (not yeti....YET) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 30 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: If it was a year or two, sure. 7 years? This is the Homer way of building...."Oh, look a UFA...how much do you want and how long? I'll double that and throw in a 2nd!" Kadri would have been a much smarter target... I wonder what/if he even offered Toronto. Given that Chucky Two-trades traded for Hayes on June 3, and given that he had to know it would take a 6-7 year contract, what were those internal conversations like? Especially around Patrick? Flahr: “Hy Chuck, Hextall is on the phone.” Fletch: “I already told him. Pizza and wings was one time only. Jori wanted to treat the team. And they had an amazing powdered sugar on them!” Flahr: “No, it’s not about that. He’s worried we’ve essentially relegated Patrick to 3C for 7 years. “ Fletch: “Who?l Flahr: “Nolan Patrick. Our 2nd overall pick from a few years ago.” Fletch: “That gives me an idea. Do you suppose Roland can play goalie? Cause that would really help us out of a jam here.” Flahr: “Great idea. Hey Ron, can Roland Patrick play goal?” Hextall: *click* 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, IllaZilla said: At least your GM hasn’t traded half the team for a half eaten corn dog and a box of popcorn... Did someone say HOT DOG!!!!!!?????????!!!!!!!!! Oh never mind you said corn dog.... Edited June 20, 2019 by OccamsRazor Fire Mcdud into the sun!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 On 6/19/2019 at 9:44 AM, Howie58 said: I have to agree with an article in the New York Post that says, in essence, that the Devils made the right call with Nico Hischier. We wouldn't be making this deal if Patrick had made more progress (if that is possible). Free Agency leads to this kind of stuff. My "take" is that Fletcher is going with these deals to remake a team culture. That transcends dollars and sense. The length of term here is a bit frightening. But that is life in the New NHL and a Comcast ownership that was fed up with patience taking us nowhere. Patience allowed you guys to be in the position you're currently in--and a good position it is. GMCF just has to make the right moves. Oh, hey, did we Wild fans mention CF is a very generous man? Seriously, I hope things work out for you all--your passion for this team is admirable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, brelic said: “That gives me an idea. Do you suppose Roland can play goalie? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: He is here to help Provorov or Sanheim or Ghost even to reach the next level in their understanding what they are supposed to within the system. This is fine I guess, except I don't see Provo or Sanheim as Braun type players. They have way more potential than he does, particularly offensively. Both Provo and Sanheim have solid two-way potential, Braun does not. Niskanen to me makes more sense in this context than Braun. He may not be that guy anymore, but he was quite good for a number of years in his prime. I could see him being more of a mentor type than Braun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, sweetshot said: Patience allowed you guys to be in the position you're currently in--and a good position it is. GMCF just has to make the right moves. Oh, hey, did we Wild fans mention CF is a very generous man? Seriously, I hope things work out for you all--your passion for this team is admirable. I have no proof of this...but the way i see it they had a plan of the guys they wanted and it seems they wanted it mostly done by the draft so that to me is what they set out to do. Get the guys they wanted and Chuck didn't want to spend time haggling over the price for the guys he wanted....what he was giving up so to speak was almost house money...spends the nuts that Hextall has spent the winter collecting. Real easy to do...almost like he had a credit card and just went swiping...now if this works out and they eventually win a Cup you won't find a hockey fan here who would be mad i think....however if it doesn't....this place could explode. A car salesman would love Chuck he would walk onto the lot look at the sticker price on the car and just say "I'll take it!!!" Chuck just doesn't seem to want to stay on the phone and negotiate...find it and buy it!!!!! No wheelin and dealin just sign and drive...as i said we win a Cup i won't give a fcuk!!! We don't and it's here we go again... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Put money and contract aside for a second .... Was Hayes the best 2C available, skill wise? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, elmatus said: This is fine I guess, except I don't see Provo or Sanheim as Braun type players. They have way more potential than he does, particularly offensively. Sure but potential doesn't win games....someone has to get the potential out of them...what better way than guys who have 1400 regular season games between them and another 200+ playoff games. They are to be like the 2019 version of Kimmo Timonen....who was guess what the same age 32 when the Flyers acquired him. They both are to help these guys along to hopefully reach the next level in their untapped potential. Braun is a stay at home type he can help Sanheim learn the nuances of the game like when and when not to pinch but he can be someone to help hold the fort down when he moves up to support the puck up ice. The Flyers need that type of play....Mcdud and Gudas just wasn't good enough providing that it is why they are gone. They will help provide the teacher on the ice type that Kimmo was so goo at. Please let's wait to see how this goes before jumping all the what all bad can go wrong on all this...it's done we have all next year to discuss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, CoachX said: Put money and contract aside for a second .... Was Hayes the best 2C available, skill wise? Duchene has the higher skill set when it comes to offense. But Hayes has the 200 foot game the Flyers and AV want (their words not mine.) so he can help on the PP and PK. Duchene would help move the puck up the ice in the transition game...not so much going to do much in the defensive end of the ice. So when you think were they would be slotted and who they would be with Duchene with JVR and Jake two other guys who don't like to come back and help with defense the 2nd line would be giving up as many goals as they score. And Duchene may cost ya 2 mill more a season more than likely. So Hayes would be the better Philly fit IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, CoachX said: Put money and contract aside for a second .... Was Hayes the best 2C available, skill wise? Yup. And I saw someone post a comparison between Duchene and Hayes over the past 3 years. Duchene, 232 GP, 170 pts, 76 goals, 0.73 ppg, (59 pts per 82 games) Hayes, 223 GP, 127 pts, 61 goals, 0.66 ppg (54 pts per 82 games) And for kicks... Skinner, 243 GP, 175 pts, 101 goals, 0.72 ppg, (59 pts per 82 games) So Duchene averages about an extra 5 points per year (incidentally about 5 goals per year). Sure, Skinner scores a lot more. And it was Buffalo resigning him. So he got $9M. Where do you think Duchene will land? Higher than Skinner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, brelic said: Where do you think Duchene will land? Higher than Skinner? I could see him demanding 10M just based on past behaviour. My guess is he'll have to settle for around 9M, but who knows? And yeah, that's way too much money. But Hayes also happened. Honestly, it may be the entire NHL is moving to an economic model where a handful of players make inordinate amounts of the total cap on a team. Some teams have been like this for some time now. It's almost like we're seeing the rest of the teams start to do this now as well. As for what that means for the game long term -- I dunno. I'm happy to not be an NHL GM though. Edited June 20, 2019 by elmatus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, elmatus said: it may be the entire NHL is moving to an economic model where a handful of players make inordinate amounts of the total cap on a team. yup, already the dominant paradigm: no "middle class" (in hockey terms of course, where the "poor" make league min of ~$500k) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, brelic said: And I saw someone post a comparison between Duchene and Hayes over the past 3 years. Duchene, 232 GP, 170 pts, 76 goals, 0.73 ppg, (59 pts per 82 games) Hayes, 223 GP, 127 pts, 61 goals, 0.66 ppg (54 pts per 82 games) And for kicks... Skinner, 243 GP, 175 pts, 101 goals, 0.72 ppg, (59 pts per 82 games) So Duchene averages about an extra 5 points per year (incidentally about 5 goals per year). The comparison stats "over the last three years" are designed to come up with the desired result. Duchene is a .75 ppg career player. (61 points/year) Skinner .67 ppg career player. (55 points/year) Hayes is a .59 ppg career player. (48 points/year) So Duchene averages about 13 points more per year and Skinner seven. That's not even getting to the "multiple 30-goal scorer" level vs. a guy who eclipsed 20 once. The comparison doesn't stand up over the long haul. We'll see if Hayes does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, brelic said: Duchene, 232 GP, 170 pts, 76 goals, 0.73 ppg, (59 pts per 82 games) Hayes, 223 GP, 127 pts, 61 goals, 0.66 ppg (54 pts per 82 games) Very interesting wasn't aware they were even that close in production....makes me feel somewhat better... 12 minutes ago, brelic said: Where do you think Duchene will land? The Preds want hi bad but they need to move Subban and Turris's contracts...need to pick up the phone and speed dial Arizona. If they can get out of those i can see Nashville Matt has several times said he wants to play there. If not i can see him going to one of the NY teams....they both need center help bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, radoran said: The comparison doesn't stand up over the long haul. Well duh Skinner was in the NHL at 18, Duchene at 19. Hayes not till he was 22 so yeah it's not going to stand up long haul wise...those guys had a leg up to adjust to the NHL speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, radoran said: The comparison stats "over the last three years" are designed to come up with the desired result. They're not designed that way - they are that way. I didn't pull any conclusions from them. Duchene is a year and a half older than Hayes and Skinner... so all three are somewhere in their primes. We'll see how they do going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: need to pick up the phone and speed dial Arizona. Do you think they'd want Hayes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, brelic said: Do you think they'd want Hayes? Sure.......but well a little late now... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, brelic said: They're not designed that way - they are that way. They're designed to include an obvious outlyer season for both players. When you look at the career numbers - and the fact that the other two have consistently produced higher than Hayes at every point - the "last three years" numbers are clearly gerrymandered. Again, we'll see if Hayes has an upward slope. But his 48 points/year look pretty consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Sure but go back over the last 5 years since that is when Hayes got in the NHL and Skinner and Hayes numbers are much closer. Skinner 257 points Hayes 216 points Duchene 397 points So with that Matt clearly has put up more points. So for 2 mill more a season and the concussion issues is Skinner worth it??? Sure he may be a better goal scorer but he also isn't going to play on the PK. Guess we'll see in 7 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CoachX Posted June 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2019 So the knock on Hayes isnt his skill or ability. Its more about what we think he is worth financially and how much he will get paid when he gets around to sucking, which sunce he is a Flyer now, is guaranteed to happen 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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