McKenzie: Hayes signed - 7 yrs / 50 milion

[csummers]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

None of that even matters, he is up now...Patrick should have been sent back to juniors anyways instead of being rushed...and Frost didn't have the luxury of being the number 2 overall pick.

 

And it doesn't matter now Frost will be gunning for a center spot...so Patty better pick up the pace...or he could get passed over soon.

 

And who cares what he would do on the Soo??

 

 

 

 Well, its the only thing we have of frost to compare with isnt it, considering he cant make the team. The point is pretty self explanatory, Patrick is heads and tails better. He got 102 point in junior in 2015/16, now has two nhl seasons complete while frost is still playing in the soo and hasnt had a sniff.

 If patrick was on the soo, Frost would be behind him in the depth chart. If patrick was on the soo, Frost would be behind him in the scoring.  I know it, you know it and the flyers know it. Just me and the flyers admit it. If he was good enough, he would be there. 

 I like how every month goes by the expectations on frost changes. He went from the future top/second line center to maybe a third line center. He is a good junior player, may never be an nhl player but thats okay. He is what he is.

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, csummers said:

 

 Well, its the only thing we have of frost to compare with isnt it, considering he cant make the team. The point is pretty self explanatory, Patrick is heads and tails better. He got 102 point in junior in 2015/16, now has two nhl seasons complete while frost is still playing in the soo and hasnt had a sniff.

 If patrick was on the soo, Frost would be behind him in the depth chart. If patrick was on the soo, Frost would be behind him in the scoring.  I know it, you know it and the flyers know it. Just me and the flyers admit it. If he was good enough, he would be there. 

 I like how every month goes by the expectations on frost changes. He went from the future top/second line center to maybe a third line center. He is a good junior player, may never be an nhl player but thats okay. He is what he is.

 

ok

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

On 6/27/2019 at 12:55 PM, radoran said:

 

Let's hope.

 

Honestly, if they could have gotten Marleau and a 1st for a 6th I probably would have preferred that for a year...

 

Well, now they can sign him for $7mm for 7 years and not have to give up that imortant 6th rounder.  

[csummers]

Its a bad signing, pure and simple. He is not coming into his prime, he is going out of his prime. The entire league is getting younger, (or people are just noticing that its always been young). Yet here the flyers are signing guys long term into their 30's for big money. Its ridiculous.

 

 They are STILL chasing the Schenn trade(who just happened to win a cup as a top 6 center for the 5.2 mil salary cap hit that hextall traded him during). Oh, and they have him for that next year too. Then they will probably let someone else overpay for him into his 30's and he will start a steady decline. Its a pattern.

 

 You have to get guys that are young and let them go when they get to 28 or so when they demand term and money. You only do that for very exceptional players. Look at pittsburg, their money goes to top players and they spread the rest around to younger, faster, cheaper guys wherever they can. Guenztel is a cap hit of 6 mil a year and is 24 signed till he is 28 or 29 and then they will probably walk way and let someone else over pay for him. And he will get a huge contract from some team and it will handcuff them for years while they watch a guy decline.

 

 Its always been a young players league. Bruins never regretted not signing Lucic, they knew they already got his best years.

 

  You know what a guy is before he is 25, and you likely have seen his best years by then and if not, you have before he is 27 or 28. Just look at all the stars through the years and their best years and what age they were, you might be shocked at what you see. Age is just one aspect, I get that, but its still interesting that most stars have their very best years when they are very young. Its different for dmen probably but even active players you can look at their stats and their best years and most come very young, first few seasons.

 

 gretzkys very best year he was 24

 Orrs very best year he was 22

 Lemieux best year he was 23

 Jagr very best year he was 24

 bossy best year he was 24

 Ovechkins best year he was 22

 Lafleurs best he was 25

 yzermans best season he was 23

 My best year I was 8

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by csummers

[CoachX]

My best year will be next year, and I will be.......older than I am now

[JR Ewing]

15 hours ago, csummers said:

Its a bad signing, pure and simple. He is not coming into his prime, he is going out of his prime. The entire league is getting younger, (or people are just noticing that its always been young). Yet here the flyers are signing guys long term into their 30's for big money. Its ridiculous.

 

Unfortunately, most of the GMs in the league haven't clued into it yet. Every summer, they hand out way too much money for way too little in return for players who are too old, and then they complain far and wide that the salary cap is ruining hockey. You can hardly blame them, after all. They've ONLY had 15 years to get used to this. It's not fair to expect too much.    /s

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by JR Ewing

[mojo1917]

18 hours ago, csummers said:

They are STILL chasing the Schenn trade(who just happened to win a cup as a top 6 center for the 5.2 mil salary cap hit that hextall traded him during).

I agree with nearly everything in your post, but this. 

 

Schenn wasn't that guy here. We had years to see what he was and he didn't wake up in time. I don't know why the player has been better in St Louis than he was here; most likely more dynamic/better  line mates, possibly letting him play center and leaving him alone. When he was here was a good player, never great, I always thought there should be more from him.  Schenn wasn't a difference maker here let alone the difference maker.  I'll take 2 # 1 picks for him every time. 

 

You could be right about Frost, though I feel comfortable with the Flyers scouting, they've been pretty good at making the top pick count.

They did swing for the fences with O'Brien, whom I  like, but he might be a bust. Kid can skate and has a great attitude, hopefully his health stays good so he can keep developing, when I've watched him on team USA (Gretsky/Hlinka) he has stood out. 

 

[ruxpin]

20 hours ago, csummers said:

 

 Well, its the only thing we have of frost to compare with isnt it, considering he cant make the team. The point is pretty self explanatory, Patrick is heads and tails better. He got 102 point in junior in 2015/16, now has two nhl seasons complete while frost is still playing in the soo and hasnt had a sniff.

 If patrick was on the soo, Frost would be behind him in the depth chart. If patrick was on the soo, Frost would be behind him in the scoring.  I know it, you know it and the flyers know it. Just me and the flyers admit it. If he was good enough, he would be there. 

 I like how every month goes by the expectations on frost changes. He went from the future top/second line center to maybe a third line center. He is a good junior player, may never be an nhl player but thats okay. He is what he is.

What do you mean he "can't make the team?" He hasn't been given the option.   

 

And at 8 months younger than Patrick he was almost in the next year's draft. It's not really a good comparison at all. 

 

And truthfully, Patrick had no business being brought straight to the NHL. With all of Hextall's preaching about bringing people slowly and having them earn it, Patrick earned nothing and was thrown into a level well over his head and continues to suffer for it. 

 

It's not that Morgan Frost can't make the team (at 19 he couldn't and shouldn't). It's because he was younger than most in his draft class, has not been given the opportunity (because staying in junior was prudent) and - - unlike Patrick -- will have to earn it.  I mean, he JUST turned 20 a month and a half ago. He'd have been 18 the entire season had he come up with Patrick. Patrick was 19 before his rookie regular season started.

 

Sorry, it's simply a silly argument. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by ruxpin

[csummers]

9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I agree with nearly everything in your post, but this. 

 

Schenn wasn't that guy here. We had years to see what he was and he didn't wake up in time. I don't know why the player has been better in St Louis than he was here; most likely more dynamic/better  line mates, possibly letting him play center and leaving him alone. When he was here was a good player, never great, I always thought there should be more from him.  Schenn wasn't a difference maker here let alone the difference maker.  I'll take 2 # 1 picks for him every time. 

 

You could be right about Frost, though I feel comfortable with the Flyers scouting, they've been pretty good at making the top pick count.

They did swing for the fences with O'Brien, whom I  like, but he might be a bust. Kid can skate and has a great attitude, hopefully his health stays good so he can keep developing, when I've watched him on team USA (Gretsky/Hlinka) he has stood out. 

 

 

They saved no money with the schenn trade, lehtera cost about the same. They got out of one year, next year, and nobody would want out of one year at schenn for 5 million cap hit next year. Frost hasnt played a game, the other guy is gone isnt he?. 

 Schenn didnt do anything except score over 50 points three straight years and lead the league in power play goals tied with two guys, one named ovechkin and one named kucherov.  He was the center they are currently over paying trying to find. They had him and they let him go to draft a second round player in the first round for whatever reason.

 So what did the flyers get for schenn besides Frost and watching Lehtera skate around like he is on mushrooms? and what the odds Frost ever turns into what schenn already was? The flyers were the only ones, or one of the few, who seemed to have him ranked in the first round. He may end up being really good, I hope so, but that trade destroyed the team and started hextall on his way out.

  Hextall overvalued his prospects, he thought someone would step up and fill what schenn was doing and there was nobody there to do it. . 

 

[csummers]

17 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

What do you mean he "can't make the team?" He hasn't been given the option.   

 

And at 8 months younger than Patrick he was almost in the next year's draft. It's not really a good comparison at all. 

 

And truthfully, Patrick had no business being brought straight to the NHL. With all of Hextall's preaching about bringing people slowly and having them earn it, Patrick earned nothing and was thrown into a level well over his head and continues to suffer for it. 

 

It's not that Morgan Frost can't make the team (at 19 he couldn't and shouldn't). It's because he was younger than most in his draft class, has not been given the opportunity (because staying in junior was prudent) and - - unlike Patrick -- will have to earn it.  I mean, he JUST turned 20 a month and a half ago. He'd have been 18 the entire season had he come up with Patrick. Patrick was 19 before his rookie regular season started.

 

Sorry, it's simply a silly argument. 

 

  Oh, I see, he has not been given the option to make the team.  If only they would have invited him to camp. This must be a misprint. And you call my argument silly. Ratcliffe may end up being the better player, who knows. I hope frost is good but another thing to remember is they didnt need that trade to get frost, he would have been there with the pick they used on ratcliffe.

So Frost is gonna get better but Patrick wont. Got it. 

 

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2018/09/morgan-frost-isaac-ratcliffe-sent-back-to-junior.html

[ruxpin]

5 minutes ago, csummers said:

 

  Oh, I see, he has not been given the option to make the team.  If only they would have invited him to camp. This must be a misprint. And you call my argument silly. Ratcliffe may end up being the better player, who knows. I hope frost is good but another thing to remember is they didnt need that trade to get frost, he would have been there with the pick they used on ratcliffe.

So Frost is gonna get better but Patrick wont. Got it. 

 

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2018/09/morgan-frost-isaac-ratcliffe-sent-back-to-junior.html

I lose brain cells reading your posts

[mojo1917]

@csummers

You are right the Flyers are struggling to find a guy to produce in that second line range and I am not wild about watching Kevin Hayes until I retire in 25 years. I also understand that the Flyers just gave Schenn's level of production a 2million $ a year raise. I don't like it. I've said as much.

 

I think you are the only person who is still insisting the trade was Schenn for Jori Lehtera… conveniently ignoring 2 #1 picks, one of which was used on Morgan Frost, the other was used on Joel Farabee.  Farabee has skill beyond Schenn's- already- and I'm not thinking at 20 Frost won't get there either. He (Frost) did score a **** pile of points for the Soo and his plus one year stats compare favorably to Giroux's.

 

You continue to ignore what Brayden Schenn was and wasn't while he was a Flyer.

He was nothing special. He was not improving in a way which demanded he remain as a part of the core group. 

His line was consistently unable to clear the defensive zone and those guys didn't pin the opposition in their d zone often enough. He was so-so on the rush.  He was sheltered with his zone starts and his stats were aided by playing on the power play with Giroux. 

There was one year when Schenn represented scoring independent of Giroux that was the year I had high hopes for him. I defended him on this forum frequently. 

 

He was a 45/55 point a year guy- teams need those, he wasn't giving the appearance of taking another step while he played for the Flyers. You have to have seen that. Hindsight is 20/20, at the time Schenn was here he was middling and coasting, the trade woke him up. good for him.

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by mojo1917

[csummers]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

I lose brain cells reading your posts

You should cherish every one of them, I dont there are many left.

 

 

[csummers]

3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@csummers

You are right the Flyers are struggling to find a guy to produce in that second line range and I am not wild about watching Kevin Hayes until I retire in 25 years. I also understand that the Flyers just gave Schenn's level of production a 2million $ a year raise. I don't like it. I've said as much.

 

I think you are the only person who still insisting the trade was Schenn for Jori Lehtera… conveniently ignoring 2 #1 picks, one of which was used on Morgan Frost, the other was used on Joel Farabee.  Farabee has skill beyond Schenn's- already- and I'm not thinking at 20 Frost won't get there either. He (Frost) did score a **** pile of points for the Soo and his plus one year stats compare favorably to Giroux's.

 

You continue to ignore what Brayden Schenn was and wasn't while he was a Flyer.

He was nothing special. He was not improving in a way which demanded he remain as a part of the core group. 

His line was consistently unable to clear the defensive zone and those guys didn't pin the opposition in their d zone often enough. He was so-so on the rush.  He was sheltered with his zone starts and his stats were aided by playing on the power play with Giroux. 

There was one year when Schenn represented scoring independent of Giroux that was the year I had high hopes for him. I defended him on this forum frequently. 

 

He was a 45/55 point a year guy- teams need those, he wasn't giving the appearance of taking another step while he played for the Flyers. You have to have seen that. Hindsight is 20/20, at the time Schenn was here he was middling and coasting, the trade woke him up. good for him.

 

Why did he have to take another step? They just paid a few million more for a 27 year old that has never done what schenn did three times before he was 25. And his pay was in line for what he was producing. Now they are paying 7 mil a year for a guy who has never came close to the steps schenn has already taken, and likely never will.

 

 If they have the future center in frost then why sign a plug for 7 years? they could have had Filpulla again last year for less than 3 million if they needed a placeholder.

 

 If frost ends up being good, good luck moving that contract.. 

 

 If Frost ends up being as good as schenn everyone will be okay with that. You need more than one or two centers. And I didnt forget about the picks for schenn, ive been talking about frost in this thread. Farabee could be good, who knows.   I had to remind others about Lehtera.

 

 If Hextall didnt make that trade, he would still be GM of flyers, the flyers would have made the playoffs, and St Louis wouldnt have a cup.

[mojo1917]

this is just me, I think schenn should have been pushing to be #1 C here and he wasn't close. 

I think if Hextall wouldn't have told Dave Scott to get the heck out of his office he'd still have a job. Hakstol was the reason Hextall lost his job. Not this trade. 

we'll agree to see this differently.

[OccamsRazor]

21 hours ago, ruxpin said:

What do you mean he "can't make the team?" He hasn't been given the option.   

 

And at 8 months younger than Patrick he was almost in the next year's draft. It's not really a good comparison at all. 

 

And truthfully, Patrick had no business being brought straight to the NHL. With all of Hextall's preaching about bringing people slowly and having them earn it, Patrick earned nothing and was thrown into a level well over his head and continues to suffer for it. 

 

It's not that Morgan Frost can't make the team (at 19 he couldn't and shouldn't). It's because he was younger than most in his draft class, has not been given the opportunity (because staying in junior was prudent) and - - unlike Patrick -- will have to earn it.  I mean, he JUST turned 20 a month and a half ago. He'd have been 18 the entire season had he come up with Patrick. Patrick was 19 before his rookie regular season started.

 

Sorry, it's simply a silly argument. 

 

All good points I was going to say...but I didn't care in arguing with this know it all clown.

[OccamsRazor]

20 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

this is just me, I think schenn should have been pushing to be #1 C here and he wasn't close. 

I think if Hextall wouldn't have told Dave Scott to get the heck out of his office he'd still have a job. Hakstol was the reason Hextall lost his job. Not this trade. 

we'll agree to see this differently.

 

He didn't fit in Philly don't waste your time arguing with this know it all clown.

 

Flyers moved him I was and still am happy they moved him.

 

Farabee and Frost will be very very good players for the Flyers.

 

They may even surpass Patrick if he doesn't start showing consistent improvement.

 

 

Nice moves...and was a nice pick by the Flyers.

 

#dontfeedthetroll

Edited June 30, 2019 by OccamsRazor

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

All good points I was going to say...but I didn't care in arguing with this know it all clown.

GASP! You, sir, may not use the C word. I recall having my pee-pee slapped for that

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, CoachX said:

GASP! You, sir, may not use the C word. I recall having my pee-pee slapped for that

I'm wondering what a politically correct word would be to accurately call a cl*wn a cl*wn.  

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, CoachX said:

GASP! You, sir, may not use the C word. I recall having my pee-pee slapped for that

 

Well i was trying to keep it G rated so it was the best i could do...

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Oh by C word i thought he meant C.U.N.T!?!

I would have thought that, too, but the only c-word I saw was cl*wn. 

[OccamsRazor]

32 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I would have thought that, too, but the only c-word I saw was cl*wn. 

 

maybe that is what the c summers means........clownsummers is too long...

 

[CoachX]

I did mean

 

[ruxpin]

It's a , summer, now he's gone... 

[flyercanuck]

On 6/29/2019 at 5:50 PM, csummers said:

 

They saved no money with the schenn trade, lehtera cost about the same. They got out of one year, next year, and nobody would want out of one year at schenn for 5 million cap hit next year. Frost hasnt played a game, the other guy is gone isnt he?. 

 Schenn didnt do anything except score over 50 points three straight years and lead the league in power play goals tied with two guys, one named ovechkin and one named kucherov.  He was the center they are currently over paying trying to find. They had him and they let him go to draft a second round player in the first round for whatever reason.

 So what did the flyers get for schenn besides Frost and watching Lehtera skate around like he is on mushrooms? and what the odds Frost ever turns into what schenn already was? The flyers were the only ones, or one of the few, who seemed to have him ranked in the first round. He may end up being really good, I hope so, but that trade destroyed the team and started hextall on his way out.

  Hextall overvalued his prospects, he thought someone would step up and fill what schenn was doing and there was nobody there to do it. . 

 

 

 You realize Philly got Frost AND Farabee out of that trade right? Can we wait until these two make or break their careers before calling them useless.