OccamsRazor Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 33 minutes ago, brelic said: What about taking a run at Gusev? Looks like he and Vegas are pretty far apart and Vegas would need to move salary to make things happen. He's looking for 2 years / $ 4M per. Not a huge commitment, and could be a pretty explosive RW. He's an RFA, so it would cost us something to acquire his rights. You don't have the money once you allow for the possible bonus payments that around 2.9 mill after signing the remaining guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 41 minutes ago, brelic said: Looks like he and Vegas are pretty far apart and Vegas would need to move salary to make things happen. Besides why would they move him....they have the money once they move Clarkson to IR. He is all they have left to sign. I don't think they went out and landed the free agent to only now let him walk the guy has a lot of skill that will more than likely translate to the NHL his speed will not sure if his scoring touch will...Vegas will get him signed. Flyers don't have the money for him once they figure the bonus payments to paid out at the end of the season and can't afford to be fined next year for overages. POTENTIAL PERFORMANCE BONUSES $2,995,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: You don't have the money once you allow for the possible bonus payments that around 2.9 mill after signing the remaining guys. I'll leave that up to them to figure out I just think that Gusev would be an interesting option if he and Vegas can't work something out - and if the price to acquire him is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: Besides why would they move him....they have the money once they move Clarkson to IR. He is all they have left to sign. From what I've read, they are $6M apart ($2M for a one year deal vs $4M per on a 2 year deal that his agent is seeking). That's a pretty significant difference in intention and commitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, brelic said: I'll leave that up to them to figure out I just think that Gusev would be an interesting option if he and Vegas can't work something out - and if the price to acquire him is good. I thought he was a LW anyways....so would you move Lindblom to the right side to accommodate for him?? I mean you could always trade them Laughton for him. It would account for the 2 mill Laughton might make. Then you would have a hole on the 4th at center unless you plug it with say Vorobyev for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, brelic said: From what I've read, they are $6M apart ($2M for a one year deal vs $4M per on a 2 year deal that his agent is seeking). That's a pretty significant difference in intention and commitment. I like what i have seen from the guy he has some very nice speed and a solid shot. I just don't think the Flyers can fit him in without moving some salary back the other way....so who would that be??? Unless they can get Provorov signed for around 6 mill and Konecny for about 4 mill they don't have the room. Ivan 6 mill TK 4 mill Laughton 1.8 mill All modest numbers above. That is 11.8 mill right there. So they have around 15.6mill once Lyon is sent down but will be equaled by NAK caphit. They have around 3.3mill left which Chuckles will need to set aside for the bonus payout at the end so there is really no cap left to work with unless you trade someone away to make room. Unless my math is off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: I like what i have seen from the guy he has some very nice speed and a solid shot. I just don't think the Flyers can fit him in without moving some salary back the other way....so who would that be??? Unless they can get Provorov signed for around 6 mill and Konecny for about 4 mill they don't have the room. Ivan 6 mill TK 4 mill Laughton 1.8 mill All modest numbers above. That is 11.8 mill right there. So they have around 15.6mill once Lyon is sent down but will be equaled by NAK caphit. They have around 3.3mill left which Chuckles will need to set aside for the bonus payout at the end so there is really no cap left to work with unless you trade someone away to make room. Unless my math is off. I don't really care how they make it work - if they're interested in Gusev, they will make it work. He's listed as shooting R and everything I've seen has mentioned him as a RW, so that would give us depth there. That means none of the prospects makes it on RW, but my guess is that Gusev would quite handily outperform any of them over the next 2 seasons. He's a small player, though... 5'9", 154#. You'd have Voracek, Gusev, TK and Pitlick on RW. G, JVR, Lindblom, and Raffl along the LW. Coots, Hayes, Patrick, Laughton down the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, brelic said: He's a small player, though... 5'9", 154#. I have seen him listed as bigger...elite is pretty close with their stats. 5-11 181 is what they list. And a LW to but hey maybe he can play either side. https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/75169/nikita-gusev All i can say is pick up the phone and make your pitch to Chuckles see what happens... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I am going to be one of the guys who will step up and say Hayes is going to pay huge dividends for the Flyers in 2019-20. He will help take some of the burden off Couturier and the top line. He will help with the special teams improvement on both the power play and the PK. He is going to help with the 5 on 5 goals as well. Not depending on just the top line will help a lot. So i guess i will put it out there so i too can say see i told ya so come next April. Guess we'll see who is right all the sky is falling folks or us kool aid drinkers.....right??? Bottoms up!!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: So i guess i will put it out there so i too can say see i told ya so come next April. Guess we'll see who is right all the sky is falling folks or us kool aid drinkers.....right??? Bottoms up!!!!! Isn't there something in between? Like... drinking a little Kool Aid is okay, it'll definitely be fun now, but in 4 years you're likely going to regret it? Hayes is going to be very good for them. I want to see Patrick and Lindblom excel and as I think I may have states elsewhere, I'm seriously eager to know how Budas got Johnson and Kapanen to sign for 2/3 of their actual street value because Patrick and Lindblom could easily have the kind of year those two had last year and be looking for a big raise. With them as an example, Fletcher can push back and potentially resign them without having to make any huge moves before he's ready. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AJgoal Posted July 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: I am going to be one of the guys who will step up and say Hayes is going to pay huge dividends for the Flyers in 2019-20. I don't think you'll find many, if any, who will argue that. He's been a consistently good 5v5 player over his career, and his production rate has stayed fairly constant when given increased ice time. He will certainly help them in the near term, I actually think they're placing in the division, not a wildcard, partially because I see Columbus, Pittsburgh, and the Islanders falling off, and partly because I think they should have a 4-line deep forward corps, which Hayes has a large impact on. Braun and Niskanen, on the other hand, are another story, but since this is the Hayes thread, I'll stick to him. What many people have a problem with, is that Fletcher has tied himself to Hayes in a way that is very difficult to extract himself from. He's being paid to be a core member of the team, when he arguably might not even be playing center for them in a couple of seasons. Patrick, while disappointing so far, has shown flashes in the NHL of why he was the consensus #1 until his injury. Frost might actually have a higher ceiling than Patrick. If just one of them hits, you now have to pay them what they're worth, AND pay Hayes 7 million a season as he enters his decline, to be your 3C OR 3RW. I was doing some back of the napkin math yesterday, and the Flyers have roughly $6 million coming off the cap next season. Which means that they will have that $6 million, plus whatever space they have this year, plus whatever the cap goes up, which could very likely be another small number, to sign Myers, Patrick, Lindblom, and a backup goalie. They're looking like they're going to be pushing up against the cap this season, so that leftover cap seems likely to be fairly low, so maybe $11 million all told if they're lucky. You almost have to hope that those guys all have disappointing seasons in order to get them all under contract, because if just one of them breaks out, you're going to have a decision to make. Then the next year, you have Sanheim, Hart, and (maybe) Hagg, again with only about $6 million coming off your cap. We already know, per Charlie O'Connor, that the Flyers and Sanheim were talking long term, then the Flyers moved to a bridge deal in order to keep the cost down because they found themselves low on cap space. While bridging guys is somewhat effective short term, a lot of quality RFAs are pushing for long-term deals coming out of their ELCs, and the guys you think will be part of your core long term are the guys you SHOULD lock up long term. Where would the Flyers be if Hextall had bridged Ghost or Couturier again on a deal that ended this off-season? Eventually, bridging good players bites you. Again, I don't think I've seen ANYONE argue that Hayes won't help the Flyers this season - I argued in favor of acquiring him earlier this summer, back when I thought he'd come in at 5x5. He gives the Flyers great depth down the middle. Even if Patrick takes a jump forward and supplants him as the 2C, the cost THIS YEAR is not so big a deal that a 7 million dollar 3C is the end of the world. It's next year, and the year after, as all these prospects start coming off their ELCs and could well be pushing for Hayes' spot on the roster that he becomes an expensive, difficult to move luxury. Not likely to be useless like AMac, but causing issues with his contract all the same. While any of Frost, Patrick, etc. could turn out to be a career-long disappointment, you really need almost all of these guys to miss in order for this contract to not be a hindrance, not 4, 5 years down the line, but in the very near future. THAT'S the concern with Hayes. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, AJgoal said: I was doing some back of the napkin math Like there is any other kind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 23 minutes ago, AJgoal said: What many people have a problem with, is that Fletcher has tied himself to Hayes in a way that is very difficult to extract himself from the way this club goes through Coaches and GMs he probably won't even be around when that time comes! 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, AJgoal said: You almost have to hope that those guys all have disappointing seasons in order to get them all under contract, because if just one of them breaks out, you're going to have a decision to make. Isn't that a sad state of affairs eh? The scenario you paint is exactly the situation the Jets are in. Look at who they have lost: Trouba, Myers, Tanev. Three key pieces to a team that was this close to winning it all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Like there is any other kind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, King Knut said: Isn't there something in between? Like sitting on the fence like a hen??? Sure if that your thing do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Isn't that a sad state of affairs eh? The scenario you paint is exactly the situation the Jets are in. Look at who they have lost: Trouba, Myers, Tanev. Three key pieces to a team that was this close to winning it all. If I were them, I'd have tried to move Little and Buffy. It would be worth taking on salary not to have to lose him. I can't imagine trading Trouba and keeping a 34 year old Byfuglien. It's beyond me. I'm SURE that's a deal they can make happen. I'd buy Buffy OUT before I'd give up Trouba for a draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Just now, King Knut said: If I were them, I'd have tried to move Little and Buffy. It would be worth taking on salary not to have to lose him. I can't imagine trading Trouba and keeping a 34 year old Byfuglien. It's beyond me. I'm SURE that's a deal they can make happen. I'd buy Buffy OUT before I'd give up Trouba for a draft pick. Well, it's not always that easy. Trouba was never going to be a Jet long term cause he didn't want to live here. Whereas, Buff doesn't mind Wpg. The guy is from Minnesota, loves to fish, it's kinda perfect. Plus, he's the spiritual leader of the team. Fans love him. Anyway, this is a Flyers thread. I digress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 46 minutes ago, AJgoal said: We already know, per Charlie O'Connor, that the Flyers and Sanheim were talking long term, then the Flyers moved to a bridge deal in order to keep the cost down because they found themselves low on cap space. While bridging guys is somewhat effective short term, a lot of quality RFAs are pushing for long-term deals coming out of their ELCs, and the guys you think will be part of your core long term are the guys you SHOULD lock up long term. Where would the Flyers be if Hextall had bridged Ghost or Couturier again on a deal that ended this off-season? Eventually, bridging good players bites you. Looks like Toronto has resurrected the bridge deal. I don't know how they did it, but signing Johnson and Kapanen for what they did is a minor miracle and bodes well for Patty and Lindblom and Myers (unless they literally all have amazing break out seasons... which honestly, isn't impossible). I highly doubt any of them will have Point/Marner/Matthews = "I demand $11 million coming out of my ELC!!" type seasons, but we could see significant production and increased responsibility from all of them as their matchups inevitably get better with the lines/pairing above them all getting better and drawing tougher matchups. 10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Like sitting on the fence like a hen??? Sure if that your thing do it. Well, it's not like I've never been accused of having a stick up my @$$... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, AJgoal said: What many people have a problem with, is that Fletcher has tied himself to Hayes in a way that is very difficult to extract himself from. He's being paid to be a core member of the team, when he arguably might not even be playing center for them in a couple of seasons. Sure and then he can slide to RW more than likely. 2 hours ago, AJgoal said: Frost might actually have a higher ceiling than Patrick. If just one of them hits, you now have to pay them what they're worth Sure and that could be a good problem to have i mean you're talking about 2021-22. Giroux and Couturier will also be in the last year of their deals. So there are so many things by then that will be different more than likely but there is no sense in worrying so much about 2021-22 before you even know what 2019-20 or even 2020-21 holds. So much could change before then it too me isn't worth worrying so much about now. I'm just wanting to enjoy the upcoming year and worry about all the other logistic then when you get closer but not now...but hey i know some are like that can't even enjoy today worrying about tomorrow. You may be that type however i'm not. 2 hours ago, AJgoal said: I was doing some back of the napkin math yesterday, and the Flyers have roughly $6 million coming off the cap next season. Which means that they will have that $6 million, plus whatever space they have this year, plus whatever the cap goes up, which could very likely be another small number, to sign Myers, Patrick, Lindblom, and a backup goalie. They're looking like they're going to be pushing up against the cap this season, so that leftover cap seems likely to be fairly low, so maybe $11 million all told if they're lucky. You almost have to hope that those guys all have disappointing seasons in order to get them all under contract, because if just one of them breaks out, you're going to have a decision to make. Then the next year, you have Sanheim, Hart, and (maybe) Hagg, again with only about $6 million coming off your cap Once again hopefully good problems to have and i guess there could be trades and things done to help find ways around this. I just am not going to put all this worry on Hayes especially till i know what he impact will be....besides if it goes south than we have 6 more years to complain about it....but i could be driving to work tomorrow and get hit by a bus...and then really Hayes and his contract will be the last thing i worry about...or hey the Flyers win the Cup in 2020-21 and none us will even give a fuk about his deal....i will hold out hope for the latter part....crazier things have happened like the Blues winning it all with a rookie goalie... ...but by all means don't let me stop anyone from harping on this deal by all means this place as i said before will be saving mutts everywhere from being booted... Edited July 10, 2019 by OccamsRazor Stupid phone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Well, it's not always that easy. Trouba was never going to be a Jet long term cause he didn't want to live here. Whereas, Buff doesn't mind Wpg. The guy is from Minnesota, loves to fish, it's kinda perfect. Plus, he's the spiritual leader of the team. Fans love him. Anyway, this is a Flyers thread. I digress. It's not always that easy, but sometimes you do what you've gotta do. It's one advantage bigger markets still have. Even if you don't like the weather in Philly, the Wawa deals can Go a long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, King Knut said: Looks like Toronto has resurrected the bridge deal. I don't know how they did it, but signing Johnson and Kapanen for what they did is a minor miracle Sure. And in a couple years they have to revisit them again. Bridge deals are fine for a bit, but they can kill you too. 10 minutes ago, King Knut said: and bodes well for Patty and Lindblom and Myers (unless they literally all have amazing break out seasons... which honestly, isn't impossible). I highly doubt any of them will have Point/Marner/Matthews = "I demand $11 million coming out of my ELC!!" type seasons, but we could see significant production and increased responsibility from all of them as their matchups inevitably get better with the lines/pairing above them all getting better and drawing tougher matchups. They don't need to though. All they need is to have $3-5 million seasons, and you're in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, King Knut said: Even if you don't like the weather in Philly, the Wawa deals can Go a long way. Please explain "Wawa" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Please explain "Wawa" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Please explain "Wawa" It's like Tim Hortons, but with candy, hoagies, and gas. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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