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ruxpin

McKenzie: Hayes signed - 7 yrs / 50 milion

Do you like this signing?  

41 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the terms that the Flyers gave Hayes? (7 yrs / ~50 million)

    • Yes - Best deal the Flyers could come up with
      1
    • Yes - Glad he is a Flyers but signed for too much
      23
    • Hell No! - Too much money. What is Fletcher doing to us???
      17


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2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

With wingers like JVR and Voracek I will be expecting 60-70....anything less and I will be disappointed. It's my opinion of it.

 

Sure, and like I said, at his price tag fans will have higher expectations. It has set him up for failure in fans' eyes.

 

But I don't think management expects that - it would be a nice bonus. Maybe one career year of 60+, but the rest in the 50s. 

 

Hope you are right and that he hits higher totals.

 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, brelic said:

his price tag fans will have higher expectations. It has set him up for failure in fans' eyes.

 

Maybe some but not in my mind.

 

It's no different than the Eagles giving Wentz 128 million. It comes with expectations.

 

But every job does. My job does.

 

Yours too.

 

It comes with the territory. 

 

Everyone one on the team has to have some type of expectations.

 

Even Laughton.

 

Without expectations were would we be.

 

The first and most important one is are they realistic.

 

Hayes?

 

Yes.

 

Even Wentz's even though it's 128 million.

 

It's obtainable. It's realistic.

 

How with that guess what also happens sometimes we don't met them.

 

It's not the end of the world. I still have a job.

 

Hayes and Wentz will still have a job.

 

But don't met expectations to often and you, me we all won't.

 

I can live with it.

 

Edited by OccamsRazor

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24 minutes ago, brelic said:

I believe he was signed with the expectation that he puts up multiple 50+ point seasons

 

Which is great - but certainly not in line with what the average guy making $7M+ in the league today is putting up.

 

In terms of "market value."

 

19 minutes ago, brelic said:

Sure, and like I said, at his price tag fans will have higher expectations. It has set him up for failure in fans' eyes.

 

In many cases, that's because a 20/50 guy who's good on the penalty kill isn't a $7M player.

 

Or wasn't.

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13 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Which is great - but certainly not in line with what the average guy making $7M+ in the league today is putting up.

 

In terms of "market value."

 

 

In many cases, that's because a 20/50 guy who's good on the penalty kill isn't a $7M player.

 

Or wasn't.

 

I see it as the Flyers had a certain amount to spend, and based on their needs and what they already have, they decided that spending $7M on a 2C who will in all likelihood be surpassed in a few years by Patrick was a luxury they could afford and a risk they were willing to take. 

 

I believe that *they* believe he will help the team now and later in ways that go beyond the simple goals/assists totals.

 

Time will tell if they made the right move or not.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Yes, agreed. I believe he was signed with the expectation that he puts up multiple 50+ point seasons, with perhaps an outlier career year in the 60s. Expecting more than that is not realistic - fans might expect more, but I doubt that is what management expects unless they are grossly unaware of probabilities and career arcs.

 

At 27 years old, Hayes has never had a single 50 pt season. Expecting him to line up a bunch of them now isn't a bet I would take on.

 

If anything, hitting 55pts would be the outlier for him at this point.

 

1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

 

-You would hope that Patrick can run and be a really good 3C and Laughton is on 4th line. If that's the case, Laughton's making a bit much, and it's a problem.

-If Hayes is 3C, then the team has a very big problem, because $7M/yr is simply too much for that position. In the cap world, there's not a lot of room to pay guys a tier above what they can produce.

 

 

If Patrick does not prove to be better than Hayes in the next bit, that would also be a problem. Hayes is an known quantity as a 2-3C player. He has been consistent in this role his entire career. To assume he's going to morph into something he's never been before seems like a pretty bad bet.

 

Patrick has a much higher ceiling than he does. We should all want Patrick to reach his potential. If he does, the coaching will have to decide if they prefer putting the better center on the second line or keep him on the third. It's possible AV will want to keep him on the third in either case. Having three scoring lines is better than two. 

 

I understand Patrick has been underwhelming, but I'm choosing to not give up on him just yet. He's still very young with plenty of room to grow. I just hope the new coaching staff allow him to develop as needed. It's entirely possible part of his problem was coaching.

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9 minutes ago, elmatus said:

At 27 years old, Hayes has never had a single 50 pt season. Expecting him to line up a bunch of them now isn't a bet I would take on.

 

If anything, hitting 55pts would be the outlier for him at this point.

 

He literally just came off a 54 pt season. People seem to miss it because his season was split between two teams.

 

So if he's getting PP2 time, I can definitely see a few 50+ point seasons.

 

11 minutes ago, elmatus said:

If Patrick does not prove to be better than Hayes in the next bit, that would also be a problem. Hayes is an known quantity as a 2-3C player. He has been consistent in this role his entire career. To assume he's going to morph into something he's never been before seems like a pretty bad bet.

 

I'm not saying he's going to morph into anything. Given he just hit 54 points, I'm saying that it is reasonable for Fletch to expect a few 50+ seasons out of Hayes - with a potential 60+ season - given better linemates and time on the power play.

 

He seems to be a late bloomer.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, brelic said:

I'm not saying he's going to morph into anything. Given he just hit 54 points, I'm saying that it is reasonable for Fletch to expect a few 50+ seasons out of Hayes - with a potential 60+ season - given better linemates and time on the power play.

 

He seems to be a late bloomer.

 

I wish I shared your idealism @brelic, but that would be a pretty big bump for a guy like Hayes. It's not as if he had bad line mates in the past. He's played with a number of solid players. He has been beat out from 2C positions by guys who aren't amazingly inspiring either. 

 

I think it's far more reasonable to assume he'll continue along the same lines he has been for the last five seasons. If he surprises us by showing something he never has before, then great, but operating on that assumption seems like a bad idea.

 

Whether Fletch is expecting that, I don't know. I hope not.

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1 minute ago, elmatus said:

 

I wish I shared your idealism @brelic, but that would be a pretty big bump for a guy like Hayes. It's not as if he had bad line mates in the past. He's played with a number of solid players. He has been beat out from 2C positions by guys who aren't amazingly inspiring either. 

 

I think it's far more reasonable to assume he'll continue along the same lines he has been for the last five seasons. If he surprises us by showing something he never has before, then great, but operating on that assumption seems like a bad idea.

 

Whether Fletch is expecting that, I don't know. I hope not.

 

So you don't think he can hit 50 points a few times? 

 

Last year was the first time he got meaningful PP minutes.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

So you don't think he can hit 50 points a few times? 

 

Last year was the first time he got meaningful PP minutes.

 

Until proven otherwise, I think he'll continue to be a 45-50pt guy. I don't see what opportunities he'll have here that he didn't in the past. It's not as if he was ever held back. He had opportunities plenty. He seized on some and failed to seize on others. He's very much the definition of a 2-3C. 

 

I'm curious about the PP. I imagine they'll put him on PP2. Again though, he's not exactly Giroux. To think he's going to make our PP2 better is a bit much. Also, all bets are off if Frost makes the team.

 

I can see him getting minutes because of his contract though. The brass may want to save face regardless of whether he belongs there.

 

PP1: Giroux, Voracek, Ghost, Couts, JVR

PP2: TK, Patrick, Sanheim, Provo, Hayes/Lindblom/Frost (?)

 

I could see them putting Niskanen on PP2 as well if Provo doesn't seem to fit as well as we might want. I have faith in Provo though. In fact, now that I think about it, they may put Niskanen on PP2 regardless.

Edited by elmatus

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45 minutes ago, brelic said:

I see it as the Flyers had a certain amount to spend, and based on their needs and what they already have, they decided that spending $7M on a 2C who will in all likelihood be surpassed in a few years by Patrick was a luxury they could afford and a risk they were willing to take. 

 

I get that - which is a different argument from the "they paid market value" that's been bandied about.

 

And I've been pretty clear that the move could work out for them. And I certainly hope it does.

 

7 minutes ago, brelic said:

Last year was the first time he got meaningful PP minutes. 

 

He had 11 PPP in 51 games for the Rangers. Zero for Winnipeg.

 

He had 11 in 71 games the year before that.

 

And in his 25 goal season, six came on the PP.

 

I don't really see him cracking the top PP unit for the Flyers but he could.

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1 hour ago, radoran said:

I get that - which is a different argument from the "they paid market value" that's been bandied about.

 

And I've been pretty clear that the move could work out for them. And I certainly hope it does.

 

I still believe that it's right around market value anyway. It's in the ballpark of what he would have gotten as a UFA with a number of teams competing for his services. 

 

1 hour ago, radoran said:

He had 11 PPP in 51 games for the Rangers. Zero for Winnipeg.

 

He had 11 in 71 games the year before that.

 

And in his 25 goal season, six came on the PP.

 

I don't really see him cracking the top PP unit for the Flyers but he could.

 

Right, so he made good on his increased PP time in NY. 

 

I don't think there's any chance he ends up on PP1 here, but PP2, definitely.

 

I'd try

PP1 - Giroux/Couturier/Voracek/JVR/Ghost

PP2 - Hayes/Patrick/TK/Lindblom/Sanheim 

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11 hours ago, brelic said:

 

I see it as the Flyers had a certain amount to spend, and based on their needs and what they already have, they decided that spending $7M on a 2C who will in all likelihood be surpassed in a few years by Patrick was a luxury they could afford and a risk they were willing to take. 

 

I believe that *they* believe he will help the team now and later in ways that go beyond the simple goals/assists totals.

 

Time will tell if they made the right move or not.

 

 

I believe he's a compliance buyout at the next lockout and that that is, in fact, the plan. 

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8 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I believe he's a compliance buyout at the next lockout and that that is, in fact, the plan. 

 

I LOVE when a gm has a plan to buyout the player he just signed for 7 years before he even plays a game for them. That's good gee emming!

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I believe he's a compliance buyout at the next lockout and that that is, in fact, the plan. 

 

Haha I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if it happens, but that can't be the 'plan,' at least not 'Plan A."

 

Also, I've read in several spots that the expectation is that there will NOT be any amnesty buyouts if there is another lockout / work stoppage.

 

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13 minutes ago, brelic said:

Also, I've read in several spots that the expectation is that there will NOT be any amnesty buyouts if there is another lockout / work stoppage.

 

Love predictions about negotiations that haven't even started yet...

 

😎

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On 7/11/2019 at 1:13 PM, Podein25 said:

 

Is it too early to ask where Kev is these days and what is training regimen is? 'Cause imma gonna keep asking.

 

He's been bulking up getting stronger!!!!!!!!!!! Healthy choices!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

#noworries

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Posted (edited)
On 7/11/2019 at 1:13 PM, Podein25 said:

 

Is it too early to ask where Kev is these days and what is training regimen is? 'Cause imma gonna keep asking.

He was rating pizza slices at Tacconelli's with Bryce Harper and the guy from Barstool the other day.  No lie.

 

At least he was in Philly.

Edited by vis
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9 minutes ago, vis said:

He was rating pizza slices at Tacconelli's with Bryce Harper and the guy from Barstool the other day.  No lie.

 

At least he was in Philly.

 

Yeah i guess you didn't see my post right above yours i posted the video of it...

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He's been bulking up getting stronger!!!!!!!!!!! Healthy choices!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

#noworries

 

Great. What the hell is a Portnoy?

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27 minutes ago, vis said:

He was rating pizza slices at Tacconelli's with Bryce Harper and the guy from Barstool the other day.  No lie.

 

At least he was in Philly.

 

LMAO

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3 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Great. What the hell is a Portnoy?

 

I have no idea....nor do i even really care!!!!!!!! At least he isn't out grabbing cop's asses with his captain!!!!

 

🤣

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Just now, OccamsRazor said:

At least he isn't out grabbing cop's asses with his captain!!!!

 

How do we know he's not doing that? Maybe that's what a Portnoy is?

 

#portnoy'slament

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah i guess you didn't see my post right above yours i posted the video of it...

Ha!!  Video is blocked at work.  Can't see what you posted...

  • Haha 1

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1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

LMAO

Stupid websense at work!  Can't even see that OR posted a video.  All I see is a bunch of whitespace in his post.

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