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ruxpin

McKenzie: Hayes signed - 7 yrs / 50 milion

Do you like this signing?  

42 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the terms that the Flyers gave Hayes? (7 yrs / ~50 million)

    • Yes - Best deal the Flyers could come up with
      2
    • Yes - Glad he is a Flyers but signed for too much
      23
    • Hell No! - Too much money. What is Fletcher doing to us???
      17


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2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Your new 3rd line RW...

 

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God, I can't begin to say how much I hate that idea.

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14 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah.  I think there's some debate here on the board about whether the Flyers had a choice.     I think they had more of a choice than the Sabres did.  I agree the Sabres almost had to.    And the other difference is if the Sabres didn't sign him they were actually losing a lot.

 

The Flyers weren't really losing anything here if they let Hayes walk (other than a 5th round pick).  Just would have had to go with another plan.

More plans are coming this weekend no doubt

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1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

God, I can't begin to say how much I hate that idea.

 

🤣

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10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

🤣

Oh...I didn't see the Ducks had bought Perry out.  I think the guy is done, which is a shame.  But at $1-$2M I might bring him in for one year if we realize AK is not going to work (and haven't filled that slot otherwise).

 

I think at this point, he's too slow and broken down.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, brelic said:

Well, Fletcher's moves are universally disliked by these writers... 

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That write up makes sense to me. I also hope they're wrong, but they make a lot of very reasonable points (not so unlike what a few of us here have been saying actually -- who's watching?!).

Edited by elmatus

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55 minutes ago, brelic said:

But to say that the comparison is nonsense is hyperbole. 

 

Comparing Hayes to guys who have consistently put up 20/50 seasons - and higher - for years and multiple 30-goal scorers is nonsense.

 

He's going to need to put up 20/50 PLUS for this to work out.

 

Not saying he can't or won't just that he hasn't. And those other guys had when they were signed.

 

We'll see if he earns hia money...

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1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

Agree to a point ...this team has so many needs it was like starting over from scratch.

What team are you talking about? 

 

The Flyers were uncharacteristically bad last season.  They had team specific bad luck.  

They had a poor coach who would not or could not change his style to suit what was a decent skating and skilled roster. 

 

This rebuild was about done,  looking at last year's result only is a way to be surprised by this year's success . 

Once they got rid of the college guy and had decent goaltending they were pretty okay.  After they were eliminated the wheels fell off.  

Look at all of the ridiculous machinations of this team last year, and in spite of it all they managed to play meaningful hockey into late March.  They didn't suck. They weren't to our standard either, but this isn't a team starting from scratch. 

 

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13 minutes ago, radoran said:

We'll see if he earns hia money...

 

Pretty much all we can do. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

What team are you talking about?

 

this has nothing to do with last years team ...... it was when Hexy took over for Homer several years ago.  OC was making a comment about the difference between Homer as GM and Hexy and the mess that Homer left him. It was like starting over from scratch with all the bad contracts, etc .....

 

That comment had no bearing about last years team........

Edited by pilldoc
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1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

Comparing Hayes to guys who have consistently put up 20/50 seasons - and higher - for years and multiple 30-goal scorers is nonsense.

 

He's going to need to put up 20/50 PLUS for this to work out.

 

Not saying he can't or won't just that he hasn't. And those other guys had when they were signed.

 

We'll see if he earns hia money...

 

I agree.

 

This part may be hard to measure (though may show in advanced metrics, so someone would have to tell me), but even if he falls a little short of that -- and with the wingers he'll have I would call that a problem -- if he's able to help the PK improve and cut down on goals against, I'll be okay. 

 

Kind of.

 

It's still a crap ton of money for his track record.  He's 27, so I'm not sure how realistic it is to think he'll tremendously improve on the offensive side.  It's possible, but I think unlikely.

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1 hour ago, radoran said:

He's going to need to put up 20/50 PLUS for this to work out.

 

With JVR and Voracek on his wings he should bank 60+.

 

Do you think AV can get Jake to shoot the fukcing puck this year???

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, elmatus said:

 

That write up makes sense to me. I also hope they're wrong, but they make a lot of very reasonable points (not so unlike what a few of us here have been saying actually -- who's watching?!).

 

I kind of agree with Todd Cordell.  Kind of.

I really disagree with Peter Tessier and James Tanner.

 

Any writer who negatively compares just about anyone on skates to AMac has obliterated any hockey credibility.  

First, Tessier:  Braun is not nor has never been an AMac-type player.  I just wholly disagree with that.

Tanner, for me, is even worse.  Of AMac, Gudas and Niskanen, Niskanen is arguably the worst player?  Come on.  I have no idea what that is based on.  And I don't have anything against Gudas.   He actually had a decent year, and it's particularly remarkable because the guy really had to change who he is and play a different game.  Much respect to him.  Even with the age difference, I think Niskanen is better.  And definitely better than AMac.

 

For me, with all the moves, I question the cost.  With the exception of Hayes, at least the cost is short-term.

But I think the cost to get Braun is probably too high.  I'm not so concerned with his one-year cap hit.

I didn't and don't like retaining salary to get Niskanen, though it amounts to very little money.  I just don't want Gudas on my top two lines, and I think Niskanen slots there.

Hayes.  I don't know what to think.  I think he improves us in many areas, but I have a hard time believing that what he brings couldn't have been found elsewhere for cheaper.

 

I can't believe I'm defending Fletcher.  You probably remember my consternation when we hired him.   The jury is still out, and you and others could prove to be right.  It's just I get what he's doing player-role-wise.   I'm not sure I like what he's spending to do it.  I think Hayes, in particular, bites us in the butt at some point.   Maybe we leave him exposed to Seattle if he doesn't have an NMC.

Edited by ruxpin
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Just now, OccamsRazor said:

Do you think AV can get Jake to shoot the fukcing puck this year???

 

I don't think Jesus Christ could do that.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Hayes.  I don't know what to think.  I think he improves us in many areas, but I have a hard time believing that what he brings couldn't have been found elsewhere for cheaper.

 

This apparently is the crux of the debate. You yourself said, you can't go Dollar Store shopping for a 2C. And there's no middle class in the game anymore. So, the market simply says: you pay Kevin Hayes and his career average 45 points $50M. And that's it. You do it. Because: you have no choice. I mean, that's what people have told me today, that's what I learned. It's horrible, but apparently it's true.

 

EDIT: it's not even clear to me that Hayes is a 2C.

 

Edited by Podein25
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5 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

My hope is ...he Hayes succeeds.  Then, Seattle says we'd like that unprotected high value multi role guy on our roster so we are competitive out of the gate.

Fletcher hems and haws but ultimately waves goodbye to 7 x7 and the next year Morgan Frost moves to 3c and Nolan Patrick resumes his 2c career. 

 

I hope Hayes does what he's signed to do here and then in seattle

 

Genius. Mojo for GM

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5 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I hope Hayes does what he's signed to do here and then in seattle

 

It's not impossible. It would depend on whether he can string together two solid years, and on who else we're going to have to expose. The main challenge we stand to have at this point is with our young dmen all figuring things out over the next couple years. If that happens, I have to imagine we'd lose one of them over Hayes.

 

The other possibility here is an amnesty buyout following the next CBA. It's hard to say if this will happen at all of course, but given it has twice in a row now, it's certainly possible I would say.

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1 minute ago, Podein25 said:

It's horrible, but apparently it's true.

Agreed on the first part.

 

I'm not sure on the second part.   I mean, we're paying Coots a heck of a lot less, right?

 

I like the improvement made to the roster, at least short term.  It's not the VLC signing, for me anyway.   I guess this was the way to do it without creating other holes (immediately), but $6M would have been my walk-away.

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1 minute ago, elmatus said:

The other possibility here is an amnesty buyout following the next CBA. It's hard to say if this will happen at all of course, but given it has twice in a row now, it's certainly possible I would say.

 

I wonder if there is a Vegas line on this.  If I find it, I'm betting the house and the wife.

 

Wait.  Just the house. If I throw the wife in, I won't be sure which way I'm cheering.

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Just now, ruxpin said:

Coots a heck of a lot less, right?

 

Yeah, but apparently that was done under different market conditions. Coots is a better player than Hayes smh

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10 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

My hope is ...he Hayes succeeds.  Then, Seattle says we'd like that unprotected high value multi role guy on our roster so we are competitive out of the gate.

Fletcher hems and haws but ultimately waves goodbye to 7 x7 and the next year Morgan Frost moves to 3c and Nolan Patrick resumes his 2c career. 

 

I hope Hayes does what he's signed to do here and then in seattle

 

Yep that is what i have been saying since they traded for his rights....when the time is right.

 

His salary goes along way to helping expose 10% of the teams salary.......which is a requirement.

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10 minutes ago, brelic said:

I think it was @pilldoc who posted a link to a McKenzie podcast where he talks about the shift in the balance of power to RFAs (when owners thought it would be the other way around), and the broken NHL economic model. 

 

yup ...hence the reason why the Leafs all of a sudden find themselves in a pickle with regard to Marner and others.  At this point in time Fletch should rake the Leafs over the coals.  The Laffs only have about 8 million left in cap space AND still need to sign Marner / Kapanen / Johnson / and Gardiner.  Funny thing is they have 6.5 million in dead money as they still have part of Kessel (retained salary - LOL) and Horton (injured).  So yeah the Laffs are in Cap Hell for the moment.  I apologize for getting off topic, but it was mentioned about Marner and the Flyers.

 

image.thumb.png.7af3446534eb6d6b0afb23c26b0c8a1a.png

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Posted (edited)

Welp. Full NMC for the first three years. So he must be protected in the expansion draft.

 

EDIT: I should say that's what's flying around, but no word from McKenzie or Dreger yet, so it might be wrong.

Edited by AJgoal

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13 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

At this point in time Fletch should rake the Leafs over the coals.

 

Yes.  But why do I have the feeling he'd bid against himself?

 

 

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    • 7
      Post
      So, we're back to..."Oh look...shiny!"    F*** me, over 7 mil a year for a 20..make that 19 goal scorer....for 7 f****** years...he did rack up THREE playoff points... while getting benched....Fletcher saves that 5th rounder!    the return of the son of Homer.   Does this mean we pay Provorov $14 Million a year?   Whens the buyout?   This is Bryz all over again...without the insane comic relief.    Holmgren signed some really dumb contracts. 
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      Haven't been on here much lately...they buy him out yet?

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