TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 18 minutes ago, Podein25 said: What about Dr. Seuss? Wait....you want a GM who keeps a Cat in his Hat??? Pfffft...and here I thought you were a mutton man.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) @radoran See all of the " marks were meant to compare the players playing styles. Not necessarily the players themselves. Francis wasn't a burner, but was strong on his skates ,great with the puck around the net and his feet, and played in all situations. Hayes has similar abilities- actually Couturier really reminds me of Francis, Hayes is like a bigger Couturier. Edit:bigger but not quite as skilled. Edited July 5, 2019 by mojo1917 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 21 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said: Wait....you want a GM who keeps a Cat in his Hat??? Pfffft...and here I thought you were a mutton man.... Do you know... the mutton man!?!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Yeah i'm glad the Flyers passed on PK....he is better suited for the Devils... ...somethings can't be unseen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) On 7/3/2019 at 6:43 PM, CoachX said: I give up. Sarcasm is not my strong suit. I also assume way too much in expecting that my other posts get read, making my position on the matter obvious Sometimes I don't read so good, either! Sorry for the misinterpretation. Edited July 8, 2019 by vis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 7/4/2019 at 6:35 PM, elmatus said: There really is nothing wrong with having Hayes as a 2C next season. He's a decent plug for that spot given the limited options we have (read: none). There is something wrong with having an essentially unmovable Hayes for the next forever at too much money. The challenge is essentially a short vs long term one. It really isn't a knock on what we need for 2019-20 -- or at least it isn't for me. I have a hard time with a GM who only plans one season ahead. Fletch seems to be that kind of GM. Homer was also that kind of GM. I do not like that kind of GM. I want a team that is planning in a way to make them competitive for a length of time, and having a new McDud-like contract on the books for another seven years seems detrimental to me. That said, I do think it's possible Fletch is banking on getting an amnesty buyout at the next CBA. It's possible he sees that as his way of getting rid of Hayes, and so he might frankly not care about giving him all the stipulations and term. I guess that's forward thinking in a sense...? I'm so happy to read you saying this because these are exactly my concerns. He's going to help the team this year. He's going to help the team for a few years. He's going to be on the team for a LONG time after that. If Frost or Patrick actually progress to anywhere near where they should be, Hayes is just going to be taking up valuable cap room that's going to make it staggeringly difficult to sign the players we need to resign. For instance, unless Coots falls off a cliff, in light of the Hayes signing, he's going to legitimately be asking for $9million+. What if Patrick finally has the breakout season we've been hoping for under the new coach and with better matchups? Fletcher signing Hayes for this much for this long is essentially banking on Patrick, Frost, Farabee, Radcliffe, Sanheim, Myers and Konecny all pretty much tanking. There's a certain degree of "go for it and figure it out later" that you have to take a leap of faith on at some point... but for Kevin Hayes? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 7/6/2019 at 5:29 AM, OccamsRazor said: Yeah i'm glad the Flyers passed on PK....he is better suited for the Devils... ...somethings can't be unseen... I'm glad they passed on him just because of his cap hit. The fun between him and Gritty alone would be a kick though. I've never understood the PK hate. God forbid a player not be boring. I think he's a little too undisciplined for most coaches on the ice (I mean that in terms of coverage and assignments) but he's a dynamic force that seems to ruffle people's feathers because he's a bit of a goof. Remember the Listerine bit? That was funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, King Knut said: I'm glad they passed on him just because of his cap hit. And Sanheim basically produced what he did at a 3rd of the price. 3 minutes ago, King Knut said: I've never understood the PK hate. I'm not sure if this was for me....because i don't hate him just didn't really want him on the Flyers is all. I guess some here may hate him....not i. 4 minutes ago, King Knut said: I think he's a little too undisciplined for most coaches on the ice Yeah and with Michel Therrien part of the staff he never even had a chance of coming here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, King Knut said: I'm so happy to read you saying this because these are exactly my concerns. He's going to help the team this year. He's going to help the team for a few years. He's going to be on the team for a LONG time after that. If Frost or Patrick actually progress to anywhere near where they should be, Hayes is just going to be taking up valuable cap room that's going to make it staggeringly difficult to sign the players we need to resign. For instance, unless Coots falls off a cliff, in light of the Hayes signing, he's going to legitimately be asking for $9million+. What if Patrick finally has the breakout season we've been hoping for under the new coach and with better matchups? Fletcher signing Hayes for this much for this long is essentially banking on Patrick, Frost, Farabee, Radcliffe, Sanheim, Myers and Konecny all pretty much tanking. There's a certain degree of "go for it and figure it out later" that you have to take a leap of faith on at some point... but for Kevin Hayes? After 3 years Hayes has a modified NMC. Also, if there is a new CBA perhaps this contract gets bought out. I disagree this contract is a hedge against all those guys failing. It is a good contract to hate, which evidently Philadelphia needs, but it is not franchise crippling even by a little bit. Can't go there with you. I can say it's too much for too long, I can't say the team is forever ****ed because of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, King Knut said: I'm so happy to read you saying this because these are exactly my concerns. He's going to help the team this year. He's going to help the team for a few years. He's going to be on the team for a LONG time after that. I think we can get at least 4 very valuable seasons from him, leaving 3 potential seasons of "ok, now what?" 11 minutes ago, King Knut said: If Frost or Patrick actually progress to anywhere near where they should be, Hayes is just going to be taking up valuable cap room that's going to make it staggeringly difficult to sign the players we need to resign. The *if* is the big question mark here. Hayes has proven he can produce at the NHL level. Patrick has produced very little in relation to the hype and his top draft status. Frost has proven zero. We all hope those two guys can be solid top 6 contributors, but hope gets us nowhere. I guess Fletch is taking the "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" approach, and I think it is a nice change from the draconian Hextall approach. There were great things under Hextall, but also some blind spots. I do think Hayes actually gives time and space for guys like Frost and Patrick to develop at their own pace. We've seen that Patrick is not a top level talent - at least yet - the way that other 1/2 players in the recent past have been (Eichel, Laine, Hischier, even Svechnikov with 20 goals as an 18 year old), so if he follows a path closer to Couturier, Hayes affords him that luxury. Same with Frost on wing or down the middle. There's always a way out of contracts you no longer want - the exceptions are the real albatross contracts like MacDud and Lucic, for example. I don't think Hayes is or will be that kind of contract. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: After 3 years Hayes has a modified NMC. Also, if there is a new CBA perhaps this contract gets bought out. I disagree this contract is a hedge against all those guys failing. It is a good contract to hate, which evidently Philadelphia needs, but it is not franchise crippling even by a little bit. Can't go there with you. I can say it's too much for too long, I can't say the team is forever ****ed because of it. Hey look on the bright side there is a chance he turns into a good signing... ....right now i am not looking to far ahead. I just want a good 2019-20 season and go from there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, King Knut said: I've never understood the PK hate. God forbid a player not be boring. Me neither, He is strong in the community (the Christmastime videos at the Mtl children's hospital are the proof) He is a good player. He speaks his mind, at times I reckon he says unpopular things. My guess is he can be "a lot" and maybe that's a distraction ? I wonder if he was white if he'd be viewed differently ? Or would he be viewed similarly to Dougie Hamilton ? who is " a lot" in his own way. PK makes for a fun villain, he's not quite Crosby-esque in his tyranny but he's in the class of a Corey Perry or Drew Doughty. Edited July 8, 2019 by mojo1917 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Me neither, He is strong in the community (the Christmastime videos at the Mtl children's hospital are the proof) He is a good player. He speaks his mind, at times I reckon he says unpopular things. My guess is he can be "a lot" and maybe that's a distraction ? I wonder if he was white if he'd be viewed differently ? Or would he be viewed similarly to Dougie Hamilton ? who is " a lot" in his own way. PK makes for a fun villain, he's not quite Crosby-esque in his tyranny but he's in the class of a Corey Perry or Drew Doughty. My sense is that there's just not a whole lot of live and let live mentality in our societies. People are always trying to control what others do, say, or how they act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: After 3 years Hayes has a modified NMC. Also, if there is a new CBA perhaps this contract gets bought out. I disagree this contract is a hedge against all those guys failing. It is a good contract to hate, which evidently Philadelphia needs, but it is not franchise crippling even by a little bit. Can't go there with you. I can say it's too much for too long, I can't say the team is forever ****ed because of it. forever screwed is a bridge too far. It's definitely not going to be the situation Homer handed over to Hextall 5 years ago until Fletcher makes a few more bad deals. But to speak to your points: The CBA expires in 2022 unless the NHL chooses to opt out this September. That could end up being a good time to buy him out if they offer buyouts that don't count against the cap. The Modified NMC won't really matter because he'll be a 30 year old 3rd liner scoring 35-45 points, earning $7million dollars for the next 4 years. No one will trade for that. In the meantime, he's got a full NMC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 18 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Hey look on the bright side there is a chance he turns into a good signing... ....right now i am not looking to far ahead. I just want a good 2019-20 season and go from there. Again, I have no problem with the player or signing him. I just think Fletcher ended up giving him too much in order to lock him up before 7/1 and it seriously looks as if he could have signed him for a lot less if he waited. Just wanting a good "insert next season here" and going from there is what got the team into the mess it was in 5 years ago. When Hextall took over, the team was essentially stuck in a crappy spot that it would have taken either a miracle or 5 years of maneuvering and drafting to overcome (even if they'd tanked and been able to draft a McDavid or a Matthews, they would only be able to afford to pay him just now). I don't want to start seeing those kinds of decisions being made again and so far, I'm not terribly impressed with the kinds of decisions I have seen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 38 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Yeah and with Michel Therrien part of the staff he never even had a chance of coming here. Yeah... let's dissect that decision next I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, King Knut said: Just wanting a good "insert next season here" and going from there is what got the team into the mess it was in 5 years ago. When Hextall took over, the team was essentially stuck in a crappy spot that it would have taken either a miracle or 5 years of maneuvering and drafting to overcome (even if they'd tanked and been able to draft a McDavid or a Matthews, they would only be able to afford to pay him just now). Yeah this is a discussion made here a 1,000 times over already not swinging on that dead horse anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Yeah this is a discussion made here a 1,000 times over already not swinging on that dead horse anymore... We just gave a 45pt. guy a $49million contract and a NMC. That horse is alive and kicking hard into the nutz if you ask me. Edited July 8, 2019 by King Knut 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, King Knut said: We just gave a 45pt. guy a $49million contract and a NMC. That horse is alive and kicking hard into the nutz if you ask me. Well look on the bright side...the Flyers have two 80+ point guys making 8.2 mill per season... ...unlike the Ranger's one making 11.6 mill per season....so some good news aye...that is allowed here right? Oh and let's not forget a 30 goal scorer making 4.3 mill....so not all gloom and doom. And no more Mcdud!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 5 hours ago, King Knut said: I'm so happy to read you saying this because these are exactly my concerns. He's going to help the team this year. He's going to help the team for a few years. He's going to be on the team for a LONG time after that. If Frost or Patrick actually progress to anywhere near where they should be, Hayes is just going to be taking up valuable cap room that's going to make it staggeringly difficult to sign the players we need to resign. For instance, unless Coots falls off a cliff, in light of the Hayes signing, he's going to legitimately be asking for $9million+. What if Patrick finally has the breakout season we've been hoping for under the new coach and with better matchups? Fletcher signing Hayes for this much for this long is essentially banking on Patrick, Frost, Farabee, Radcliffe, Sanheim, Myers and Konecny all pretty much tanking. There's a certain degree of "go for it and figure it out later" that you have to take a leap of faith on at some point... but for Kevin Hayes? If Hayes is around in 7 years, his salary wont be as large as it is now. The cap will rise, guys will get paid more, and he will stay the same. The only way he hurts the team for the next 4 seasons is if he sucks and fails to produce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 20 minutes ago, CoachX said: If Hayes is around in 7 years, his salary wont be as large as it is now. The cap will rise, guys will get paid more, and he will stay the same. The only way he hurts the team for the next 4 seasons is if he sucks and fails to produce The Cap never goes up that much (and as seen this year, it not going up enough caused ripples throughout the league). The Problem isn't in 4 years, it's next summer. Realistically, if Sandstrom shows himself to be a viable option as backup/tandem So that Elliott doesn't need to be resigned and Myers, Patrick and Lindbloom don't progress too much to be able to make any intense demands, then they'll be fine this time next year. But if either of them scores 50+ points this year, Fletcher's going to be in some trouble and potentially face offer sheets he can't match. If they get really really tight they could waive and buyout Niskanen a year early, but if he does that, he's screwed all the more for the next year when he's relying on Niskanen's money coming off the books to help resign Sanheim (unless Travis literally proves himself to be a $9million D-man this year in which case, "yay!" and "oh crap" Which gets us back to our current problem: Provorov and Konecny. The Flyers SHOULD have enough to sign both. Seeing what Laughton gets in arbitration should help clarify the situation and at this point (due to the lack of offer sheets), I'm sure that's the major delay. What TK gets will have implications on what Patrick and Linblom get next year and what Provo gets will have implications on what Myers gets next year and what Sanheim gets the year after that. The "bright" side is that if Fletcher can manage to get all this done next year, signing Sanheim in two years is also made easier by the fact that Seattle is likely to take Sanheim or Myers or Ghost off our hands in the expansion draft. This is why I desperately want to know how Toronto convinced Kapanen and Johnson to resign for literally 2/3 their market value because I'd love for Fletcher to do the same next summer with Lindblom and Patrick. As it is, even if he can get Patrick and Lindblom for the same deals Kapanen and Johnson signed, he's going to be right up against the cap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Man i miss old hockey....the ol blue streak across the TV.... ..and Big E 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Man i miss old hockey....the ol blue streak across the TV.... ..and Big E Yes , it was so much more exciting in the old days . Even though the talent levels of todays players are fantastic, I prefer tough old time hockey. I miss the crowd at the Spectrum, the hard hitting, the relentless forecheck of old time Flyer teams, the fights and intense rivalries. I liked when the players hated each other. After Wilson pummelled Howatt or Bridgman fought Nystrom they didnt say... good fight buddy and pat each other on the butt...they hated each other and the fans hated each other too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 9 hours ago, mojo1917 said: Me neither, He is strong in the community (the Christmastime videos at the Mtl children's hospital are the proof) He is a good player. He speaks his mind, at times I reckon he says unpopular things. My guess is he can be "a lot" and maybe that's a distraction ? I wonder if he was white if he'd be viewed differently ? Or would he be viewed similarly to Dougie Hamilton ? who is " a lot" in his own way. PK makes for a fun villain, he's not quite Crosby-esque in his tyranny but he's in the class of a Corey Perry or Drew Doughty. I have to admit that I don't get the sheer amount of pique for PK sometimes. The way that people go on about him, you'd think he was Dick Allen, a guy who really was a kind of poison for his teams. He was often late for games and practice because he was stopping off at bars, and sometimes showed up drunk at the ballpark. He was once suspended due to missing a double-header because he decided he would rather go bet on horses at the racetrack, and when the suspension was lifted, demanded his own dressing room, threatening to kick the ass of any teammate that complained. He would sometimes refuse to play exhibition games. He was a great player, but was also an almost constant pain in the ass. What's PK's big crime? Wearing loud suits? Being an extrovert? I don't know, but I would be happy to have him on my team, except that the cap hit is so high. I don't like the contract, but I definitely like the player. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) On 7/8/2019 at 10:12 PM, JR Ewing said: I have to admit that I don't get the sheer amount of pique for PK sometimes It has to do with his complexion. 100% Edited July 11, 2019 by radoran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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