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Howie58

A Bit Underwhelmed (and Concerned)

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@LegionOfDoom

 

Generally agree about Team Comcast and their “bias for action.”   I think, to some degree, they backed the team into a corner, at least as it relates to the Hayes signing.  But, I am not sure that explains Fletcher’s apparent penchant for leaving a little something on the table with each move he makes.  I just think that may be his style.  It also doesn’t explain the Schlemko move.  Has anyone figured out a rationale for that move?

 

Overall, the team has improved on paper.  That cannot be disputed.  Hayes is a legit 2C and fits well with Vigneult.  Niskanen and Braun bring some much needed leadership and stability to the defense, which should yield benefits to the young dmen as well.  I’d prefer to add a veteran at 3RW (Justin Williams), but won’t cry if they don’t.  Plus, he added a legit NHL coaching staff, though I am not enamored with Therrien in the least.  Pretty solid job. Now, I just want to see what he does with Provorov and TK.  Provorov’s market will be set by Werenski and McAvoy, so Fletch may not have a lot of room to work there.  I’m real curious to see what happens with TK.  I still think that’s going to be the most difficult negotiation.  

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44 minutes ago, vis said:

@LegionOfDoom

 

Generally agree about Team Comcast and their “bias for action.”   I think, to some degree, they backed the team into a corner, at least as it relates to the Hayes signing.  But, I am not sure that explains Fletcher’s apparent penchant for leaving a little something on the table with each move he makes.  I just think that may be his style.  It also doesn’t explain the Schlemko move.  Has anyone figured out a rationale for that move?

 

Overall, the team has improved on paper.  That cannot be disputed.  Hayes is a legit 2C and fits well with Vigneult.  Niskanen and Braun bring some much needed leadership and stability to the defense, which should yield benefits to the young dmen as well.  I’d prefer to add a veteran at 3RW (Justin Williams), but won’t cry if they don’t.  Plus, he added a legit NHL coaching staff, though I am not enamored with Therrien in the least.  Pretty solid job. Now, I just want to see what he does with Provorov and TK.  Provorov’s market will be set by Werenski and McAvoy, so Fletch may not have a lot of room to work there.  I’m real curious to see what happens with TK.  I still think that’s going to be the most difficult negotiation.  

 

 

I'm ok with this spot being open for someone in training camp to earn this roster spot.  The talent is there, it is just a matter of who will step up and grab the spot. My eyes are on Issac Ratcliff to earn the spot.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, King Knut said:

Nisky will cause us RFA problems next year. 

As it stands today this could be a possiblity. He could be traded, he could be picked by Seattle, he could be waived.

Someone else could be traded...

Is it because we've lived through multiple GMs that have 100% disregarded any type of future consideration that folks are so worked up over the prospect of not being able to sign an "underperforming" youngster  to a bridge deal ? 

 

The guy (Fletcher) doesn't have a superior track record with regard to cap management, other side of the coin, he has been in situations where he has been told to "go do something".  

 

I have a hard time riding with the guys who are freaking out about improving the team. I share some skepticism about the Hayes contract but as of this moment don't think the team is ****ed long term. 

Edited by mojo1917

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2 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

 

I'm ok with this spot being open for someone in training camp to earn this roster spot.  The talent is there, it is just a matter of who will step up and grab the spot. My eyes are on Issac Ratcliff to earn the spot.

Same here.

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3 hours ago, vis said:

 It also doesn’t explain the Schlemko move.  Has anyone figured out a rationale for that move?

 

Be cause he didn't think he was better than the slew of guys he signed for the Phantoms...it's all i can come up with.

 

Is that is can't say really without Chuckles thoughts or insight on it...just a guess is all...

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3 hours ago, vis said:

Provorov’s market will be set by Werenski and McAvoy

 

Or their market set by Ivan's...who blinks first??

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

It's hard to relax when just about everything Fletcher has done is a disappointment.  I'm usually fairly optimistic compared to other Flyer fans but the moves he's made just don't make any sense to me.  I'm just not seeing the improvement in the team. At least Hextall had a plan and was moving the team in the right direction.

 

He's doing favors for all the other teams, so that later on he can call them all in and assemble a juggernaut. It worked so well for him in the Mini-Apple.

 

 If this team ever wins anything under Fletcher, it'll have a lot more to do with Hextalls acquisitions than Fletchers.

Edited by flyercanuck
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2 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

 

I'm ok with this spot being open for someone in training camp to earn this roster spot.  The talent is there, it is just a matter of who will step up and grab the spot. My eyes are on Issac Ratcliff to earn the spot.

 

It doesn't matter with J Dub he has said it's the Canes or retirement...he doesn't want to move the family again...and he has told the Canes he is thinking on it and will let them know.

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27 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

The guy (Fletcher) doesn't have a superior track record with regard to cap management, other side of the coin, he has been in situations where he has been told to "go do something".  

 

Yeah, that's never a good situation to be in. He screwed the Wild with the Parise/Suter contracts. Very Homerian. 

 

Hayes will help, but he's a middling player that Fletch gave max term, max money (in market terms), full protection from expansion, and then limited protection after. These kinds of contracts make fans hate players in short order if they are not able to live up to expectations. Hayes will either be loved or hated in Philly - there is no middle ground. And it will probably be both over the length of the contract.

 

One of the HB writers had this to say about Minnesota:

Hidden Content

    Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.

 

The Wild franchise is an afterthought in the league. It drips of mediocrity. Mats Zuccarello is a good player, but what is that supposed to do for a team who missed their window to succeed and has no plan of action to retool or rebuild. Nothing about the Wild makes sense. Paul Fenton is nuts.

 

The bolded parts have Fletch's fingerprints all over them.

 

So I said after he was hired that the summer would give me a better reading on him. So far, not a fan. It reeks of more Minnesota mediocrity and vanilla. 

 

The next test (other than the RFA signings) will be on the ice. 

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2 hours ago, hf101 said:

My eyes are on Issac Ratcliff to earn the spot.

 

He has been strictly LW up until this point unless you are planning to move someone else to the 3rd RW spot and let Ratty play LW on the 3rd i think it would be a lot to ask of a kid to change wings and learn to play in the NHL.

 

Ratcliffe - Patrick - Lindblom

 

I could see that being tried since Lindblom has played both wings before. 

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1 minute ago, brelic said:

He screwed the Wild with the Parise/Suter contracts.

 

He was forced to by the owners to go make a big splash...kind of like Snider did with Homer and the Bryz fiasco...

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3 hours ago, vis said:

@LegionOfDoom

 

Generally agree about Team Comcast and their “bias for action.”   I think, to some degree, they backed the team into a corner, at least as it relates to the Hayes signing.  But, I am not sure that explains Fletcher’s apparent penchant for leaving a little something on the table with each move he makes.  I just think that may be his style.  It also doesn’t explain the Schlemko move.  Has anyone figured out a rationale for that move?

 

Overall, the team has improved on paper.  That cannot be disputed.  Hayes is a legit 2C and fits well with Vigneult.  Niskanen and Braun bring some much needed leadership and stability to the defense, which should yield benefits to the young dmen as well.  I’d prefer to add a veteran at 3RW (Justin Williams), but won’t cry if they don’t.  Plus, he added a legit NHL coaching staff, though I am not enamored with Therrien in the least.  Pretty solid job. Now, I just want to see what he does with Provorov and TK.  Provorov’s market will be set by Werenski and McAvoy, so Fletch may not have a lot of room to work there.  I’m real curious to see what happens with TK.  I still think that’s going to be the most difficult negotiation.  

I don't mind what the Flyers did. I think the biggest X factors this year compared to last is Vigneault and Carter Hart. I also think people will be quite surprised with Braun. I got to see him play a ton here in Edmonton. Very good D man. Doesn't get the credit when you play with the rest of the stars the Sharks had. Just having Hart for a full season compared to the first 40 games last season will make a difference. We will see a whole different system under Vigneault. Expect a ton of shot blocking and long stretch passes. I think that's one of the reason's Gudas isn't here any longer. He was not good at getting out of the D zone. I remember when he coached the Canucks it was really frustrating to watch because shots hardly ever got through. That's one of the things the Sedins had trouble with is Vigneault expected everyone to block shots.

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Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

He was forced to by the owners to go make a big splash...kind of like Snider did with Homer and the Bryz fiasco...

 

Do you give Homer a pass for Bryz?

 

Many ways to make a splash. Both just chose paths that drowned the team.

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Fletcher has had one draft and one off season.  To say all future success will be due to the work of someone else is silly. What if all these prospects Hextall brought in go in to be nothing more than decent players? Is that his fault too?

 

I am anxious to hear what comments will be made if Hayes has a stellar season and the defense is lights out

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3 minutes ago, brelic said:

Do you give Homer a pass for Bryz?

 

Hell no. I'm not saying give him a pass but when the owner gets involved and mandates for a guy if you want to keep your then you acquiesce...right?? 

 

Now he surely could have pick a better option i can't remember who was available...unless Snider demanded it was Bryz i can't remember if that was it or not but good lawd you surely don't have to give him a damn 9 year contract to start...or do you??

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Capfriendly has the Flyers with almost $15m in cap space.  Still need to sign Provorov, Konecny and probably Laughton.  I think Provorov is going to get close to $7m/6 years, Konecny gets a $4m/2 year bridge and Laughton gets $2m/2 years.  That leaves them with $2m in cap space.  Assuming those signings happen, the roster shapes up likely shapes up like this:

 

Giroux/Couturier/Konecny

JVR/Hayes/Voracek
Lindblom/Patrick/???

Raffl/Laughton/Pitlick
Andreoff

 

Provorov/Niskanen

Sanheim/Braun

Ghost/Myers

Hagg

Morin

 

For shits and giggles, below are some of the UFA forwards still out there (not sure any of them are within the Flyers' range, unless they deal a d-man):

- Justin Williams

- Patrick Marleau

- Pat Maroon

- Jason Pominville

- Marcus Johannson

- Michael Ferland

 

 

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4 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I am anxious to hear what comments will be made if Hayes has a stellar season and the defense is lights out

 

It's all you'll here...

 

 

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18 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Or their market set by Ivan's...who blinks first??

I think Werenski sets the market since I think he's likely to get the biggest payday -- not necessarily because he's the best of the three (debatable), but CBJ is probably desperate to lock him up and need to do something after losing Panarin and Bobrovsky.

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5 minutes ago, vis said:

Still need to sign Provorov, Konecny and probably Laughton.

 

NAK needs to be signed too.

 

5 minutes ago, vis said:

Giroux/Couturier/Konecny

JVR/Hayes/Voracek
Lindblom/Patrick/NAK

Raffl/Laughton/Pitlick
Andreoff? Gabriel?

 

Provorov/Niskanen

Sanheim/Braun

Ghost/Myers

Hagg

Morin

 

 

Not sure if Andreoff or Gabriel are kept up or sent down...either way it could be a paper transaction with one or both.

 

That way if something arises then you just bring someone up the waiver is good for 30 days or 10 games. Then they have to be placed on waivers again.

 

I think NAK gets that shot at the 3rd line RW spot....then if at any point he shows he can't handle it or is ready then i can see them going the Pommenville or insert name route. 

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3 minutes ago, vis said:

I think Werenski sets the market since I think he's likely to get the biggest payday -- not necessarily because he's the best of the three (debatable), but CBJ is probably desperate to lock him up and need to do something after losing Panarin and Bobrovsky.

 

Well if that is the case i hope they don't set it too high because they have the most cap space left.

 

Bruins only have about 10 mill left to sign McAvoy and Carlo with.

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33 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

As it stands today this could be a possiblity. He could be traded, he could be picked by Seattle, he could be waived.

Someone else could be traded...

Is it because we've lived through multiple GMs that have 100% disregarded any type of future consideration that folks are so worked up over the prospect of not being able to sign an "underperforming" youngster  to a bridge deal ? 

 

The guy (Fletcher) doesn't have a superior track record with regard to cap management, other side of the coin, he has been in situations where he has been told to "go do something".  

 

I have a hard time riding with the guys who are freaking out about improving the team. I share some skepticism about the Hayes contract but as of this moment don't think the team is ****ed long term. 

 

Seattle Draft isn't until 2020, so he'll be gone by then.  However, if it was next year, they couldn't take him unless he waived the NMC. 

 

I don't find Patrick or Lindblom to be underperforming.  I find them both to be progressing and a year on the 3rd line, with 3rd line matchups for each will help... but I am curious as to who their 3RW will be... and that could have implications.

 

Patrick has a very dissimilar game to Couturier, but the comparisons of progression are valid IMHO.  Patrick has WAY more skate and stick skill than Coots, but he's been held back from using those skills aggressively in the name of being defensively responsible.  Thus, just like Coots, if they're going to stay on this tack, it's going to take time for him to sort out how to do both at the NHL level.  I was right about Coots, so I will point out that I said all along with him, it was all about his usage, not his ability.  Coots was really good defensively, so it made sense to use him that way.  Patrick is meh... okay.  He was and will again someday be really good offensively and I just hope Vigneault is dedicating some time to letting him flourish that way.  

 

The Flyers have a LOOOOOONG history of penning their skilled young stars into a responsible system minded game and not encouraging them to fly free right away.  It's why I always say that if we'd gotten Kane back in '07, he wouldn't be nearly the player he was because the Flyers would have insisted that he not play that way.  Nor would have Crosby or Tavares or anyone else IMHO.  

 

33 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

The guy (Fletcher) doesn't have a superior track record with regard to cap management, other side of the coin, he has been in situations where he has been told to "go do something".  

 

My issue is that aside from replacing Hakstool, I don't see any of his actions amounting to a hill of beans different than what Hextall would have done.  I think Hextall likely would have gone for Hayes or maybe a Wing instead, but someone on a similar tier.  Maybe he wouldn't have done Niskanen AND Braun, but I think he'd have done something.  I do believe he would have bought out Weise if he couldn't trade him (I remain convinced the only reason he kept Weise around at all was because Hakstol used him so much).  Lehtera's contract was expiring.  I don't think Hextall makes the Talbot move, but he likely brings Elliott back too.  Does Hextall trade Simmonds?  I honestly don't know.  If he had, he'd have gotten picks, not Pitlick.  I don't see Hextall giving Hayes as player friendly a contract as Fletcher did though.  That wasn't in his DNA.  Even JVR's contract doesn't have an NMC and is for far fewer years and JVR is a 35 goal scorer.  People complain about Jake's big contract, but on the scale of Haye's contract, Jake would be earning $10million or so.  

 

So my point is that I don't think Fletcher was told to "go do something."  I think Fletcher was likely told to "Make it look like you're doing something."  I think Hextall got fired for calling Dave Scott naughty names and keeping him out of the locker room.  I don't think his firing had anything to do with the product on the ice.  If it was about the product on the ice, there'd have been warning and Hextall wouldn't have been blind sided, but he was blindsided.  

 

Why do I care?  

 

Because I don't trust Homer and I do trust Hextall's vision of building a franchise geared for talent turnover and built to compete perpetually, not just built for a big push ever 10 years.  If Fletcher follows that path, why do I care?  I care because I know Holmgren and Scott lied to us all about Hextall and that means my mistrust of them is backed up.

 

33 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I have a hard time riding with the guys who are freaking out about improving the team. I share some skepticism about the Hayes contract but as of this moment don't think the team is ****ed long term. 

 

The team is absolutely not ****ed at all.  Not long term, not short term.  They're going to be good.  I see people on twitter wondering if they're going to make the playoffs.  If this team doesn't make it to the second round of the playoffs, something's gone horribly wrong and it really will all be blown up.  I remain convinced of that.

 

The Devils got a little scarier.  That's true.  The Rangers got a little better too.  Everyone else in the division took a step back.  Most of the rest of the conference it remains to be seen as of now.  

 

If the Flyers can lock in TK, Provo and Laughton, even if that's all they do (they'll have to trade a D man because neither Hagg nor Morin nor Braun will make it through Waivers) they are going to be a very strong, very deep team.  I'll also point out that Frost and Farabee are not like Rubstov or Vrobyev, they are coming into their professional careers with significantly, more momentum and on a tighter trajectory.  It's far from a given that they'll be great or even good, but it's far more likely than we've had at fwd in a little while.  

 

 

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16 minutes ago, albertaflyer said:

I don't mind what the Flyers did. I think the biggest X factors this year compared to last is Vigneault and Carter Hart. I also think people will be quite surprised with Braun. I got to see him play a ton here in Edmonton. Very good D man. Doesn't get the credit when you play with the rest of the stars the Sharks had. Just having Hart for a full season compared to the first 40 games last season will make a difference. We will see a whole different system under Vigneault. Expect a ton of shot blocking and long stretch passes. I think that's one of the reason's Gudas isn't here any longer. He was not good at getting out of the D zone. I remember when he coached the Canucks it was really frustrating to watch because shots hardly ever got through. That's one of the things the Sedins had trouble with is Vigneault expected everyone to block shots.

Good points.  I honestly think people will be pleased with Niskanen and Braun.  Should Fletcher have retained salary or given up as much as he did?  Probably not, but I don't think any of that hurts us that much.  Hayes is going to be a whipping boy because of his contract.  But, I do think he'll be a good player as well.  A coaching/culture change alone should improve the team.

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26 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He has been strictly LW up until this point unless you are planning to move someone else to the 3rd RW spot and let Ratty play LW on the 3rd i think it would be a lot to ask of a kid to change wings and learn to play in the NHL.

 

Ratcliffe - Patrick - Lindblom

 

I could see that being tried since Lindblom has played both wings before. 

 

I like it but I just don't see them putting a rookie on a line with two developing younger guys around the same age.  

 

There was also talk of moving Frost to the RW. Might be easier than moving a LW. It'll be interesting... but I hope one of them gets a chance.  

 

They're talking like Farabee is going to get a legit look, but he's REALLY going to have to impress to make the Flyers.  My question on him though is if he doesn't make the team, will he play for the Phantoms or go back to college.  At his age... not an easy call IMHO.

 

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25 minutes ago, albertaflyer said:

I think that's one of the reason's Gudas isn't here any longer. He was not good at getting out of the D zone.

 

Exactly and that is what Niskanen is suppose to help with.

 

Great post by the way...it's good to read something positive around here these days...it has been a rare sighting.

 

27 minutes ago, albertaflyer said:

I also think people will be quite surprised with Braun. I got to see him play a ton here in Edmonton. Very good D man. Doesn't get the credit when you play with the rest of the stars the Sharks had.

 

I agree he is nothing flashy and i think he will pair well with Sanheim and help give hi the comfort of being able to engage and push the puck up and ice and knowing he has a very smart stay at home type who still moves very well enough to get back and cover if there is a turnover and the puck goes back the other way. This can be crucial in helping Travis learn when to and not to pinch and there could be an adjustment period with partner learning each other.

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3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

NAK needs to be signed too.

AHL fodder, probably.  I think time has passed him by, unless he comes to camp blazing (see below).  And by that time, the Flyers may have already signed another UFA for 3RW, making any shot that any young guy might have had moot.

 

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Not sure if Andreoff or Gabriel are kept up or sent down...either way it could be a paper transaction with one or both.

Either is probably the seventh or may pull spot duty here or there.

 

One thought: might Laughton play at 3RW and have Pitlick play 4C and Andreoff or Gabriel play 4RW?

 

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I think NAK gets that shot at the 3rd line RW spot....then if at any point he shows he can't handle it or is ready then i can see them going the Pommenville or insert name route. 

If they don't sign a UFA by camp, I think Frost, Farabee and Rubtsov will get a lot of consideration for that spot.  I kind of think those guys might be passing NAK by.

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    • 5
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      I thought the Flyers big splash was last week?  
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