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yave1964

NYLANDER TRADED! (No wait- the other one)

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The Hawks and Sabres have been aggressive this offseason. They sort of sparked up a boring week with a minor trade of former first round picks.

  Buffalo gave up on forward Alexander Nylander a former number 8 pick in the draft sending him West to Chicago for Henri Jokiharju a former first round pick himself who struggled last season to find a role in the Chicago back end.

 

 It makes sense for both teams really, Nylander has been passed by other prospects and has been slipping from the Sabres plans, Jokiharju is a real prospect looking for a role which he should be able to find in Buffalo. Chicago added De Haan and Maatta to shore up their blueline leaving Jokiharju on the outside looking in and will get a shot at a bottom pair role with Buffalo and is a player with upside. Conversely if Nylander can land a middle six job playing with Toews on the second line he might get things going.

 

I rate this a win for the Sabres, I still believe in Jokiharju quite a lot

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1 hour ago, yave1964 said:

I rate this a win for the Sabres, I still believe in Jokiharju quite a lot

 

I'm with you on this.   I mean, either player could certainly find new life on their new team, but Henri is a defenseman and is only 20 years old.  He has so much room to grow into himself.   I mean, he "struggled" with the Blackhawks last season, but he only played 38 games but started in the AHL in his first taste of North American hockey.   I actually think they brought him up ridiculously early considering he'd come from Finland.  

 

I like his upside.  And with a right handed shot, it could potentially give them an option next to Dahlin down the road (I would not do that yet).    And with the Sabres' drafting Ryan Johnson (a great pick at #31, btw) they could really be rounding out into a darn good defense in 2-3 years.

 

For now, if he stays up and isn't sent to Rochester for cooking, I agree he's 3rd pair.  

 

As for Nylander, yeah, he could be okay depending upon who he's put on a line with.    He hasn't had much opportunity yet in Buffalo, but he did okay in Rochester.  I don't expect much more than bottom six, but he plays both wings and I suppose could slot up, so I think a decent move for Chicago.  I just think the Sabres get better upside.

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@ruxpin

 

The Hawks had a strange defense last year, Keith and Seabrook are aging and while both were solid neither was a shut down, Gustafsson had a breakout year offensively but will never be a Norris candidate, Jokiharju kept getting thrown into that mix and being asked to be a shut down guy which is not his game. A right shot kid with offensive upside good puck skills, still learning nuance. I felt he was being set up to fail. I consider him to still be a damn good prospect it is not his fault that A) they came up with a better one in Boquist and b) they addressed their need for defensive D-men by adding De Haan and Maatta leaving no room for him. 

 

@Hockey Junkie Nylander is an immature kid who looks more like he should have been playing in the ECHL with his pathetic numbers at Rochester over the past several years. His digs at the Buffalo organization on the way out show him to be an entitled classless punk kid who hasn't earned anything yet who feels he deserves a shot because of his name and draft position.  

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I think this is a push really....both teams have moved disappointing prospects for each other.

 

Maybe the shakeup does them both some good....however both players have been labeled as to soft to make it at the NHL level.

 

It happens a lot the NHL it the top league in the world for a reason you have to have that mental toughness to make it through the actual physical toughness in the this league and chews many up and spits them out.

 

But this can also maybe work for both clubs worth the gamble. The Sabres do i think have the chance to win this just because right hand D men with some offensive flare in the NHL are like gold. Will they come out like crooks....time will tell and lies in the kid's hands.

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13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I think this is a push really....both teams have moved disappointing prospects for each other

I have no idea how a 20 year old defenseman who played nearly 40 games in the NHL the second season after being drafted can be termed "disappointing." 

 

I mean, Nylander is a schmuck, but I don't think Jokiharju is disappointing.  Maybe he is eventually x maybe he isn't, but I don't think the evidence indicates that yet. Quite the contrary. 

 

I just think they've made some moves on defense (and a draft pick) that made him movable for a forward. I just think Chicago got the wrong forward. Time will tell that one, too, i suppose. 

 

Sounds like each team got the position they wanted, but I'll take the dman. 

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5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I have no idea how a 20 year old defenseman who played nearly 40 games in the NHL the second season after being drafted can be termed "disappointing." 

 

You will have to ask the Hawks scouts/staff.

 

Their words quoted the other day from an "anonymous' scout source of course...only thing i could find was he was a perimeter player in the AHL sort of the William Nylander version defenseman type...afraid of the physical stuff, shied away from contact...can't say i know all lot about him otherwise....and he wouldn't be the first soft euro defenseman to come through...that type of stuff is so hard to gauge...going from the big ice where there is a lot of room to work to the tight quarters of the NHL.

 

At the end of the day it's swap of disappointing prospects. Maybe the change of scenery helps both.

 

In the end i don't GAF.

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1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

You will have to ask the Hawks scouts/staff.

 

Their words quoted the other day from an "anonymous' scout source of course...only thing i could find was he was a perimeter player in the AHL sort of the William Nylander version defenseman type...afraid of the physical stuff, shied away from contact...can't say i know all lot about him otherwise....and he wouldn't be the first soft euro defenseman to come through...that type of stuff is so hard to gauge...going from the big ice where there is a lot of room to work to the tight quarters of the NHL.

 

At the end of the day it's swap of disappointing prospects. Maybe the change of scenery helps both.

 

In the end i don't GAF.

 

If I was 5'6" I'd shy away from contact too!

 

Have your considered the possibility that his problem might be he is *unsuccessful* at shying away from contact? 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

If I was 5'6" I'd shy away from contact too!

 

Who is 5-6??

 

Henri Jokiharju is 6-0 195.

 

Nylander is 6-1 195. 

 

That is big enough in the NHL Debrincat plays just fine at 5-7....Flyers could of had him instead of Pascal Laberge...just saying nothing to do with the topic at hand....Flyering up a Sabre thread always adds a nice touch... :D

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1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

Who is 5-6??

 

Ahem. Well, he was 5'6" when I scouted him as a 15 yr old!!

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16 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Ahem. Well, he was 5'6" when I scouted him as a 15 yr old!!

 

You were a scout when you was 15...damn.

 

That was a looooooong time ago. :5a6425fa25331_VikingSkoool:

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6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

You will have to ask the Hawks scouts/staff.

 

Their words quoted the other day from an "anonymous' scout source of course...only thing i could find was he was a perimeter player in the AHL sort of the William Nylander version defenseman type...afraid of the physical stuff, shied away from contact...can't say i know all lot about him otherwise....and he wouldn't be the first soft euro defenseman to come through...that type of stuff is so hard to gauge...going from the big ice where there is a lot of room to work to the tight quarters of the NHL.

 

At the end of the day it's swap of disappointing prospects. Maybe the change of scenery helps both.

 

In the end i don't GAF.

Lol. That sums that up nicely! Hahaha 

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5 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Ahem. Well, he was 5'6" when I scouted him as a 15 yr old!!

 

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11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

 

By the way. What. The. Hell. Is. Going. On. In. Your. Once. Proud. Republic?

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2 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

By the way. What. The. Hell. Is. Going. On. In. Your. Once. Proud. Republic?

Sickening. Not even quite an election year yet even. 

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Just now, yave1964 said:

Sickening. Not even quite an election year yet even. 

 

So it's gonna get worse before it gets worse? 

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2 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

So it's gonna get worse before it gets worse? 

 Likely. If it keeps up the way it is going your folks are going to need to build a wall to keep us out, lol. @ruxpin and myself are probably going to be first in line.

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Late to the party on this, but in the big picture, I think the trade could benefit both teams.

Both Jokiharju and A. Nylander are still developing players at this stage and I have a feeling Chicago and Buffalo made this one looking ahead at what each may project to be.

Granted, Nylander spent his entry level contract in the AHL (where his numbers, frankly, were perhaps average), while Jokiharju saw relatively more games at the NHL level.

But Buffalo, at their best, have been a team slanted towards the defensive end and with the moves they have already made for defense, the guys they have, and now the acquisition of Jokiharju, I think they are trying to recreate a solid defensive team like those in Sabres' past, then worry about offense later on.

Nylander over in Chicago-land where they seem to love the uptempo style, likely gets time at the NHL level that he wasn't really getting in Buffalo.
The Hawks' Toews and Kane are still very viable players and anyone who gets put on their lines will do well if only by accident.
In contrast to Buffalo, the Hawks seem to be putting more a premium on offensive players, perhaps feeling their overall defensive depth within the organization will be just fine.

As for any "parting shots" Nylander may have had for Buffalo, well, he WAS 1st round selection (8th overall), and usually, top ten guys feel they should be in the NHL right away.
Whether Nylander had a point or not, I don't know...but again, judging by his AHL numbers, they did look pedestrian to just "good".

I mean....look at the stink Jonathan Drouin (3rd overall pick) made when TB sent him to the minors to start his career......

Chicago and Buffalo should both be happy with this deal.

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3 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

By the way. What. The. Hell. Is. Going. On. In. Your. Once. Proud. Republic?

Same thing that happened to the Habsburgs and for much the same reason. 

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6 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Same thing that happened to the Habsburgs and for much the same reason. 

 I would say that it is more akin to the fall of the Roman Empire after Constantine made the mistake of allowing a new religious sect to take over and start to impose morality on the people by putting fig leaves on the statues, Emperor Honorius caved to religious pressure to stop gladiator fighting and then a weak leader coudlnt get his mind around the attacks of outsiders such as the Huns and Visgoths among others. 

 Probably not the place for this here, religion and politics and all just my two cents as I watch our country burn and Nero tweet.

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1 hour ago, yave1964 said:

 I would say that it is more akin to the fall of the Roman Empire after Constantine made the mistake of allowing a new religious sect to take over and start to impose morality on the people by putting fig leaves on the statues, Emperor Honorius caved to religious pressure to stop gladiator fighting and then a weak leader coudlnt get his mind around the attacks of outsiders such as the Huns and Visgoths among others. 

 Probably not the place for this here, religion and politics and all just my two cents as I watch our country burn and Nero tweet.

I was simply going for the inbreeding reference and you have to go all Plutarch on me. 

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2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I was simply going for the inbreeding reference and you have to go all Plutarch on me. 

 As far as the inbreeding, he stated that if she wasn't his daughter he would be dating her, so...….

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On 7/10/2019 at 12:45 AM, yave1964 said:

The Hawks and Sabres have been aggressive this offseason. They sort of sparked up a boring week with a minor trade of former first round picks.

  Buffalo gave up on forward Alexander Nylander a former number 8 pick in the draft sending him West to Chicago for Henri Jokiharju a former first round pick himself who struggled last season to find a role in the Chicago back end.

 

 It makes sense for both teams really, Nylander has been passed by other prospects and has been slipping from the Sabres plans, Jokiharju is a real prospect looking for a role which he should be able to find in Buffalo. Chicago added De Haan and Maatta to shore up their blueline leaving Jokiharju on the outside looking in and will get a shot at a bottom pair role with Buffalo and is a player with upside. Conversely if Nylander can land a middle six job playing with Toews on the second line he might get things going.

 

I rate this a win for the Sabres, I still believe in Jokiharju quite a lot

I agree with you. Makes sense for both teams, although the Hawks kept a pretty tight leash on Jokiharju. Didn't let him play too many games to see what he's capable of. 38, tall order...

 

I don't think highly of older Nylander's attitude, didn't like his father's attitude either. Younger Nyl seems to be the worst of them in that respect...

 

Who knows but I'd say a clear win for the Sabres.

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      I'm with you on this.   I mean, either player could certainly find new life on their new team, but Henri is a defenseman and is only 20 years old.  He has so much room to grow into himself.   I mean, he "struggled" with the Blackhawks last season, but he only played 38 games but started in the AHL in his first taste of North American hockey.   I actually think they brought him up ridiculously early considering he'd come from Finland.     I like his upside.  And with a right handed shot
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      Ahem. Well, he was 5'6" when I scouted him as a 15 yr old!!
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      You were a scout when you was 15...damn.   That was a looooooong time ago. 
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      I would say that it is more akin to the fall of the Roman Empire after Constantine made the mistake of allowing a new religious sect to take over and start to impose morality on the people by putting fig leaves on the statues, Emperor Honorius caved to religious pressure to stop gladiator fighting and then a weak leader coudlnt get his mind around the attacks of outsiders such as the Huns and Visgoths among others.   Probably not the place for this here, religion and politics and all just m
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      I was simply going for the inbreeding reference and you have to go all Plutarch on me. 
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