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CreaseAndAssist

The Minnesota Wild is in Denial as the Offseason Provides not-so-subtle hints about its present & future

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It is time this team took an objective look at itself.  The hints have been piling up for sometime, its time they take heed from what these 'messages' are telling them.  

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Ain't that the truth?

 

An excellent, analytical article! I probably couldn't agree with you more.

 

If any Wild fan is excited about the upcoming season... I'd advice not to hold breath.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

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It is time this team took an objective look at itself.  The hints have been piling up for sometime, its time they take heed from what these 'messages' are telling them.  

 

This next season will certainly be interesting. Are the Wild going to commit to giving the young guys the ice time to improve, or are they going to continue to try and ride the vets to a playoff spot?

 

And I know all the cheerleaders are going to point at the Blues and say “See? You just need to get in to the Playoffs and anything can happen!”

 

In my opinion, the Blues caught lightening in a bottle. They were one of the worst teams in the NHL in December. Several things happened to turn their season around, including a young goal tender bursting onto the scene and the coaching change. 

Edited by IllaZilla

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If the cheerleaders think St. Louis’s success was a “get in and see what happens “ moment , they’re nuts. 

St. Louis was built for platoff hockey. Their smallest regular player weighs in at 190 lbs. 

players not timid about taking the body. A coach who got them to by in on solid defense. Balanced scoring. 

All that requires patience and a plan. 

Something the wild lack. 

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Actually, the St.Louis team has 4 players below 190 lbs(3 forwards and one lightest goaltender Binnington (174 lbs)). Interesting, that after looking for their players height and weight, I found that Tarasenko having 6'0" and 225 lbs, and no one is talking there about his physical conditioning. And we have a promising prospect Sokolov who is also 6'0" , but his weight was a maximum 220 lbs(who is having now 216 lbs) and the Wild organization is still talking for 3 years already about his physical conditioning. Something I just do not understand.

 

I think the most important for the team to get the best results are :

-to have a smart coach with absolute freedom in his decisions;

-to have an outstanding goaltender helping the team to build a solid consistent winning confidence.

 

That happened last year regarding a St.Louis team after changing a coach and a goaltender at the mid of the season. With Yeo and Allen team was nowhere.

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So Sokolov never heard of Charles Atlas or Jack LaLaine. He's a big, smokin' Russian. Give him a couple preseason tryouts on a wing with Rask and Zuccarello...

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Rask at this point...is a $4 million player working the James Sheppard Memorial Popcorn Machine.  I honestly don't see where he fits on this team.  And if you are playing him, you're not doing so because of what he may do out on the ice but because you don't want to waste money having him sitting up in the press box.  

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On 7/11/2019 at 12:41 PM, Hockey-78 said:

Ain't that the truth?

 

An excellent, analytical article! I probably couldn't agree with you more.

 

If any Wild fan is excited about the upcoming season... I'd advice not to hold breath.

 

Thanks...I try.  

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Ok my bad. But of the 3 skaters under 190 , how many pulled regular minutes. 

My main point was St. Louis was built for playoff hockey.

It seems St. Louis always picks size for the tie breaker between 2players. 

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I saw this posted on a bruins site and while yes it's just a fan site still a trade that I wouldn't totally be against.

 

Bruins trade Backes and a prospect or draft pick  Wild trade Rask

 

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3 hours ago, bbgarnett said:

I saw this posted on a bruins site and while yes it's just a fan site still a trade that I wouldn't totally be against.

 

Bruins trade Backes and a prospect or draft pick  Wild trade Rask

 

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It better be a pretty GD good prospect for the Wild to take on Backes. And it flies in the face of the “ We have to get younger and faster...” mantra that Fenton keeps using to justify the trades of Coyle, Niederreiter, and Granlund. 

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When Berube succeeded Yeo he demanded accountability. It's the same thing Boudreau promised when he became the Wild's head coach. The other promise was kept, the other was not, and the results are clear.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

When Berube succeeded Yeo he demanded accountability. It's the same thing Boudreau promised when he became the Wild's head coach. The other promise was kept, the other was not, and the results are clear.

 

While I think Berube is not the kind of guy to put up with anyone's crap, let's be honest...until Binnington arrived they had no shot because leaky Jake Allen was giving up 3+ goals per game.  Once they stopped giving up soft goals, the offense started to re-ignite and build around Ryan O'Reilly who was the only Blues player having a great season prior to the firing of Mike Yeo.  But after that, I agree.  They are a team well-built for playoff hockey.  They have a blueline that is pretty big and fairly mobile and physical where you need them to be.  The rest of their team plays with a fair amount of grit and they have skill and scoring all throughout the lineup.  Toss in a solid goaltender...and you can do a lot of damage with that lineup.  Ryan O'Reilly is a star player who is great defensively, rarely takes penalties and can be a clutch scorer.

 

The Wild are not even close to the St. Louis Blues in design.  If they think its as easy as just having a decent goalie and excelling they're fooling themselves.  St. Louis is a way more complete team.  They were underachieving under Yeo.  For whatever reason...his message got old quick and like what happened here...a lot of the players gave up on him.  

 

We are much older, slower and far less physical or resilient (mentally, physically maybe even emotionally) than that team IMO.  The Wild don't play like a team...they play like a bunch of small cliques that will occasionally step up to help the team win on occasion.  But there are plenty of nights where no one wants to step up and everyone seems to be waiting for someone to carry the load.  IMO, another sign of our messed up locker room.    

 

Oh and one last thing.  Before anyone says maybe Berube would be able to fix things here.  Do you think Berube would have the same control with this Wild team than the Blues?  I don't think so.  The vets rule the roost as Richards, Yeo, Torchetti and even Boudreau has found out.  I don't think Boudreau is a shrinking violet, but he also probably is smart enough to pick his battles and knows which ones he'll lose.  The vets do as they please and he simply tries to work around that dynamic as much as he can because he knows its not going to change.  Berube doesn't / didn't have to worry about that.  Afterall, even until they hoisted a cup he was the interim coach...but I don't think the players there had the owner in their pocket the way our vets do here.  Just a thought...

Edited by CreaseAndAssist

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And a pretty GD good thought it was. 

Well said and spot on!

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On 7/11/2019 at 6:24 PM, Tomdog said:

If the cheerleaders think St. Louis’s success was a “get in and see what happens “ moment , they’re nuts. 

St. Louis was built for platoff hockey. Their smallest regular player weighs in at 190 lbs. 

players not timid about taking the body. A coach who got them to by in on solid defense. Balanced scoring. 

All that requires patience and a plan. 

Something the wild lack. 

 

This.   The Blues were NOT an example of "just get in and see what happens."  I wish people would stop doing this, in part because it's not even remotely reality in terms of the Blues, but it's a way to delude oneself about one's own team.  The Blues were a team built to challenge for the Cup that was, early on, betrayed by poor coaching and worse goaltending.   They made those changes early enough.  Granted, Biddington turned out even better than they could have hoped and they needed that kind of goaltending to dig themselves out, but competent goaltending from the start likely gets them to the same standings-finish or better.  The above-average goaltending helped them in the playoffs.

 

And it's not like they snuck in at the last moment or by their teeth.  They literally finished one point out of first place in what some call the toughest division.   The Blues are NOT an example of "get in and see what happens."

 

These are the standings for the Central division from start of season to Dec. 31 and from Jan. 1 to end.   Pretty much bifurcating the season.

 

Yeah, at half-way, the Blues (crappy goaltending, lousy coaching, and sleeping Tarasenko and all!) were 18 points out of 1st, with the entire division between them.   The second half, they beat the field by 15 points.   And it wasn't just the goaltendings.   Second in the division to only Dallas in PF.  Tied 2nd in PA.    Probably closer to what should have been expected on offense going in.  

 

This team was not "just get in."  With the moves last summer, the Blues phaser was set to "Destroy."

 

 

NHL Standings central div Jan 1-end 2019.png

nhl standings central div Start to Dec 31 2018.png

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13 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

It better be a pretty GD good prospect for the Wild to take on Backes. And it flies in the face of the “ We have to get younger and faster...” mantra that Fenton keeps using to justify the trades of Coyle, Niederreiter, and Granlund. 

 

On the other hand, Backes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Rask.

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I agree on Berube not being a key that would change the Wild. The missing key is accountability and the reasons the Wild is not held accountable probably go way up to Leipold.

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On 7/12/2019 at 2:47 PM, Tomdog said:

Ok my bad. But of the 3 skaters under 190 , how many pulled regular minutes. 

My main point was St. Louis was built for playoff hockey.

It seems St. Louis always picks size for the tie breaker between 2players. 

2 players out of 3 rolled regular minutes. Last year we had also 3 forwards below 190 lbs - J.T.Brown, Zucker and Granlund. The last one was traded in February to Predators, and J.T. Brown played 56 games during a regular season. We do not know yet if he is going to play for the big club this season because of his alcohol mood swings. This summer we added two more forwards Zuccarello and Hartman having under 190 lbs. And we do have in our team 2 the most valuable defensemen also having their weight under that number - Dumba and Spurgeon. I do not think it is extremely important to have exclusively heavy players in the team . Probably more important to have consistently hardworking talented players  capable to move entire team to the top of the tournament. Agree that St.Louis was built for the playoffs hockey. Their Tarasenko is a consistent, healthy, hardworking, highly producing star. We still do not have that level for the last 20 years. Maybe Gaborik was pretending to that position, but not anyone else for the Wild team. We need them as many as better ASAP. Hope, we will not waste our new current promising youngsters for a nothing special like we did in a previous years.

 

Interesting note I found out recently, Haula was traded to Carolina to join Nino. 

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On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 3:40 PM, IllaZilla said:

 

This next season will certainly be interesting. Are the Wild going to commit to giving the young guys the ice time to improve, or are they going to continue to try and ride the vets to a playoff spot?

 

And I know all the cheerleaders are going to point at the Blues and say “See? You just need to get in to the Playoffs and anything can happen!”

 

In my opinion, the Blues caught lightening in a bottle. They were one of the worst teams in the NHL in December. Several things happened to turn their season around, including a young goal tender bursting onto the scene and the coaching change. 

 

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 5:24 PM, Tomdog said:

If the cheerleaders think St. Louis’s success was a “get in and see what happens “ moment , they’re nuts. 

St. Louis was built for platoff hockey. Their smallest regular player weighs in at 190 lbs. 

players not timid about taking the body. A coach who got them to by in on solid defense. Balanced scoring. 

All that requires patience and a plan. 

Something the wild lack. 

The biggest difference between the Wild and the Blues? One team has a group of guys who want to win it all, are willing to sacrifice to make it happen, work as a unit and support each other while another works in small cliques, only have a handful of guys willing to do whatever it takes to win it all, only a handful willing to sacrifice and overall don't work that well with each other.

 

We can talk size tell we are blue in the face but what's the point when the Wild will only run Parise and Suter with their friends in the first 2 lines and in all key moments. It's frustrating. Thank god we signed another big, young, scoring machine in Mats Zuccarello. 😏   At least he plays 80 games every year..... o... wait....

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I do not know if the goalie's weight makes a huge difference in his faster almost acrobatic reaction and better sharper performance in the net, but I did a comparison in some goalies weight.  
A Stanley Cup winner last year - Binnington  has 174 lbs (St.Louis Blues team);
Tuukka Rask - 176 lbs. (Boston Bruins team actually has now 3 light goalies);
Sergei Bobrovsky- 182 lbs. (Florida Panthers team);
Matt Murray- 178 lbs (Pittsburgh Penguins);
Marc Andre-Fleury - 180 lbs (Vegas Golden Nights team);
Andrei Vasilevskiy -215 lbs (Tampa Bay Lightning);
Devan Dubnyk - 224 lbs(Minnesota Wild team). It seems our Devan is the most heaviest one. IMO he needs to lose this summer at least 30 lbs. Maybe that will provide him more consistency in the net. 
In our Wild goalie system, Filip Linberg has 180 lbs. and Matt Robson having 190 lbs.  The rest goalies are above 198 lbs.
 

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18 hours ago, EJ0226 said:

 

The biggest difference between the Wild and the Blues? One team has a group of guys who want to win it all, are willing to sacrifice to make it happen, work as a unit and support each other while another works in small cliques, only have a handful of guys willing to do whatever it takes to win it all, only a handful willing to sacrifice and overall don't work that well with each other.

 

Watching the Blues in the Finals showed a huge difference between us and them. They had pretty much Everybody hitting and not just bumping into them. Even Tarasenko was throwing it around nicely. You can probably count on 1 hand how many players we have who would consistently hit and put in that kind of effort.

 

We'll need a different playing style because if we continue to "get the puck in deep...work the boards...yadda yadda" we'll fail. 

It may work a bit in the regular season but not in the PO's. With all the hitting going on, The other teams will easily disrupt our plays and we don't adjust very well.

I watched as many PO games as possible trying to see how the Wild would be affected and by what I was seeing it was a good thing we didn't make the PO's.

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5 hours ago, ClusterChuck said:

Watching the Blues in the Finals showed a huge difference between us and them. They had pretty much Everybody hitting and not just bumping into them. Even Tarasenko was throwing it around nicely. You can probably count on 1 hand how many players we have who would consistently hit and put in that kind of effort.

 

We'll need a different playing style because if we continue to "get the puck in deep...work the boards...yadda yadda" we'll fail. 

It may work a bit in the regular season but not in the PO's. With all the hitting going on, The other teams will easily disrupt our plays and we don't adjust very well.

I watched as many PO games as possible trying to see how the Wild would be affected and by what I was seeing it was a good thing we didn't make the PO's.

That was a not so subtle analysis of this team, and pretty accurate as well. 

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      If the cheerleaders think St. Louis’s success was a “get in and see what happens “ moment , they’re nuts.  St. Louis was built for platoff hockey. Their smallest regular player weighs in at 190 lbs.  players not timid about taking the body. A coach who got them to by in on solid defense. Balanced scoring.  All that requires patience and a plan.  Something the wild lack. 
    • 3
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      It better be a pretty GD good prospect for the Wild to take on Backes. And it flies in the face of the “ We have to get younger and faster...” mantra that Fenton keeps using to justify the trades of Coyle, Niederreiter, and Granlund. 
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      Hidden Content Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.   It is time this team took an objective look at itself.  The hints have been piling up for sometime, its time they take heed from what these 'messages' are telling them.  
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      Ain't that the truth?   An excellent, analytical article! I probably couldn't agree with you more.   If any Wild fan is excited about the upcoming season... I'd advice not to hold breath.
    • 1
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      Ok my bad. But of the 3 skaters under 190 , how many pulled regular minutes.  My main point was St. Louis was built for playoff hockey. It seems St. Louis always picks size for the tie breaker between 2players. 
    • 1
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      When Berube succeeded Yeo he demanded accountability. It's the same thing Boudreau promised when he became the Wild's head coach. The other promise was kept, the other was not, and the results are clear.
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