OccamsRazor Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 51 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I'm not saying it's justified. I'm saying there are humans involved. And Kekalainen may feel the need to prove he can tack someone down since he hasn't previously been able to. You know, keep the fans from realizing NO ONE really wants to stay in Columbus given the choice. It's small, but Columbus is actually a fairly nice town--if it weren't in Ohio. But if he doesn't improve the net it won't matter who is in front of it. It will be a hard sell to go from Bob to Elvis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: But if he doesn't improve the net it won't matter who is in front of it. It will be a hard sell to go from Bob to Elvis... Lol no argument here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, ruxpin said: This is aside from the Trouba discussion. As a fan or even as a GM, do you want to sign him now for the 8 years and at least have that cost-controlled, or go for the $6.5m bridge and either pay through the nose at UFA or lose him? I'm not entirely sure how to answer that. I think they may be at a place currently where they need to do the $6.5M now because it's the least immediately painful and worry about tomorrow tomorrow. But I think I might try for the 8 year deal. Not sure, though. I would prefer the 8 year deal but the short 6.5mill deal will be the easiest to hammer out. Edited July 21, 2019 by OccamsRazor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Assuming they overpay for Provy, cause lets face it, its the Flyers, I wonder how great the stress overload will be? images.mp4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, CoachX said: Assuming they overpay for Provy, cause lets face it, its the Flyers, I wonder how great the stress overload will be? images.mp4 64.24 kB · 0 downloads Was that flyercanuck with the Go Leafs hat on jumping in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Was that flyercanuck with the Go Leafs hat on jumping in? I find it socially unacceptible to single people out (disclaimer: this comment is intended to be smarmy) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 4 hours ago, ruxpin said: It's small, but Columbus is actually a fairly nice town--if it weren't in Ohio. Does this also then mean that Cleveland would be a fantastic city, if it wasn't in Ohio? Or would it still be a sh!thole regardless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Podein25 said: Does this also then mean that Cleveland would be a fantastic city, if it wasn't in Ohio? Or would it still be a sh!thole regardless? I dont think you can say "********". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Podein25 said: Does this also then mean that Cleveland would be a fantastic city, if it wasn't in Ohio? Or would it still be a sh!thole regardless? It would be a **** hole regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, ruxpin said: It would be a **** hole regardless. It could be worse.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 13 hours ago, Podein25 said: Does this also then mean that Cleveland would be a fantastic city, if it wasn't in Ohio? Or would it still be a sh!thole regardless? I like Cleveland. Very cool food scene, gothic architecture from the 20's and 30's but updated on the inside. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the area by the Quicken loans arena has great bars and restaurants and is walk-able. It gets a bad rap because asshat WC Fields once said something about it and then the ****** lake caught fire because it was so polluted, but that was a long ass time ago. There are worse cities than Cleveland- believe me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I like Cleveland. Very cool food scene, gothic architecture from the 20's and 30's but updated on the inside. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the area by the Quicken loans arena has great bars and restaurants and is walk-able. It gets a bad rap because asshat WC Fields once said something about it and then the ****** lake caught fire because it was so polluted, but that was a long ass time ago. There are worse cities than Cleveland- believe me. Cool. Good to know. I'm from Winnipeg so I'm not really in a position to judge these matters. Wad just a cheap joke. I met a guy from Cleveland once in Central America and he was very cool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 On 7/19/2019 at 7:17 PM, RonJeremy said: I assume Provorov is gonna want 7 million but 5.5 to 6 million is more reasonable. That's a solid deal. If Fletcher is smart, he'll require a ton of imaging and Med visits to verify that Ivan is recovered from 2018 (I believe he was not 100% last year) and maybe load a few incentives to be dependent on a healthy return, but The Flyers play this kid almost 30 minutes a night. They haven't got much of a leg to stand on paying him any less than Trouba. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 On 7/20/2019 at 4:16 PM, Podein25 said: This in fact is difficult to answer. They are different types of Dmen. Personally, I prefer Provy, but that could be 'cause I'm a homer. But I also like his overall game better, as a player. That might just be a hockey preference I have. But ask the question another way: which of the two is more likely to win the Norris? The answer to that I believe is Provorov. You may be right about the Norris, but if he wasn't on the Rangers, I'd say Trouba is the one more like to win a cup. And that is just a comment on their games, not their teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 On 7/19/2019 at 7:17 PM, RonJeremy said: I assume Provorov is gonna want 7 million but 5.5 to 6 million is more reasonable. Of course we think it's more reasonable, but I don't think it's more realistic. I actually think giving him a cautious 6 years is reasonable, but I'd take him for 8. The biggest problem with giving Provo more than 7 million is that Sanheim and Myers could demand the same very soon and Fletcher will not have it. Niskanen being around sorta suggests that they won't be getting top pairing minutes for at least two years, so that'll help. Nonetheless, if they all continue on an upward trajectory, I would suggest that Ghost invest in some nice raincoats, buy some shares of starbucks and brush up on his Alice n Chains and Soundgarden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 56 minutes ago, King Knut said: maybe load a few incentives to be dependent on a healthy return Incentives aren't allowed on standard contracts Only on entry level contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 59 minutes ago, King Knut said: You may be right about the Norris, but if he wasn't on the Rangers, I'd say Trouba is the one more like to win a cup. And that is just a comment on their games, not their teams. Not sure how you can say that Provorov even with a down year put up 97 points in his first three years....and 17 goals his 2nd year. Trouba put up 72 and hasn't even sniffed double digit goals since his rookie year which was just 10. Sorry call me a homer if you like but Provorov is the better overall defenseman when talking about the two....and I think his has a higher offensive upside than Trouba. And I know he is better at defense. The Rangers are going to be hating that deal in 3 years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 42 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Incentives aren't allowed on standard contracts Only on entry level contracts. Other bridge deals this summer have been incentive laden. I don't have time to look up which ones where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 34 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Not sure how you can say that Provorov even with a down year put up 97 points in his first three years....and 17 goals his 2nd year. Trouba put up 72 and hasn't even sniffed double digit goals since his rookie year which was just 10. Sorry call me a homer if you like but Provorov is the better overall defenseman when talking about the two....and I think his has a higher offensive upside than Trouba. And I know he is better at defense. The Rangers are going to be hating that deal in 3 years. yeah... it's not about points and it's not even about being a better defenseman (although Trouba takes Provo easily on most advanced metrics people use to assess D-men as well as +/-... but I digress). It's not really even a compliment for Trouba, though i know it sounds like one. If you were to ask me which one is more likely to win a conn smythe? I'd probably say Provo. If you were to ask me which team should win a cup sooner, I'd say Provo. If you were to ask me which I'd rather have on my team, I'd say Provo. And if you were to ask me which one looks more like a cup winner regardless of team again this time next year, I'm kinda assuming it will be Provo. I'm just talking about the style of play as exhibited thus far and how that translates to playoff success. Another way to put it is specifically that Provo is better than Trouba. He's more well rounded and better at more and more varied aspects of the game. Which, to this point has translated essentially to: Ivan has to essentially be all things to all people to be effective for his team. Trouba just has to do what he does well for his team and he's effective and I feel like in the playoffs, it's the players who can effectively focus on excelling even more at what they excel at and maybe chip in with an assist here or there that tend to get the farthest. They guys who have to be all over the ice to be effective seem to not be able to get over the hump as often. Trust me, I'm not saying I think the Rangers are more likely to win a cup than the Flyers. That's not at all what I'm saying. Part of it has to do with Provorov being on Hakstol's team and being the most solid D-man on that team. And it SHOULD all change this year anyway. Trouba's going to have a lot more responsibility and likely a lot more ice time. At the same time, with the guidance hopefully coming from the new staff and the impending emergence of Myers, Sanheim & Morin as well as the help from Niskanen and Braun, Provorov will actually have less responsibility and fewer minutes and maybe appear in fewer situations (or at least less frequently in ALL situations). It's mostly a guy impression, but if I'm saying anything that can be backed up by measurable observation, Trouba's a bit more physical and effective shutting down his own end and turning play the other way. That's the kind of thing a cup winning D-man does. Trouba's really solid at the things that a cup winning team needs to have locked down to let the rest of the talented team do their jobs well and win a cup. Provo's really good at almost everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 21 minutes ago, King Knut said: Other bridge deals this summer have been incentive laden. I don't have time to look up which ones where. No incentives are handed out like you're talking about except ELC and ones over 35. Ivan doesn't fit the bill. And signing bonuses are not the same thing. Signing bonuses are to be paid out first of the year. So Ivan can not be given any incentives. Performance Bonuses There are two types of performances bonuses available*, each capped at different amounts and restricted to different benchmarks the player has to meet to earn them. While signing bonuses can appear on any contract, performance bonuses are restricted to ELCs and 35+ contracts. How performance bonuses work in terms of cap management is the same, no matter what sort they are or which contract they appear on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, King Knut said: yeah... it's not about points and it's not even about being a better defenseman (although Trouba takes Provo easily on most advanced metrics people use to assess D-men as well as +/-... but I digress). Sure and that is from playing with a better goalie and partner in Morrissey and overall team. Ivan is better with what I go by and that is the eye ball test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Sure and that is from playing with a better goalie and partner in Morrissey and overall team. Ivan is better with what I go by and that is the eye ball test. Sure... but thanks for not reading my post and trying to consider a nuanced opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 44 minutes ago, King Knut said: Sure... but thanks for not reading my post and trying to consider a nuanced opinion. I just don't agree with it. Is that better for you. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I just don't agree with it. Is that better for you. Sorry. Actually, yeah. helps a lot. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Not sure if i already posted this or not..... I dont care how much they pay him. Just get it done 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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