Coyotes New Owner: "We Are Staying in the Desert"

[WordsOfWisdom]

7 hours ago, radoran said:

Teams in a market of multi millions of people are more valuable than teams in markets of hundreds of thousands.

 

So the Toronto Blue Jays are worth more than the Boston Red Sox?  (mic drop)  

 

From Google search:

Boston: ~685,000 population

Toronto: ~2.93 million population

 

Should we relocate the Boston Red Sox from their "podunk" US town into Montreal? 

 

Montreal: ~1.78 million population

 

That's the logic you are using right now.  I know what you're saying but I'm trying to explain to you (kindly) why your thinking is wrong.

 

You're basically sitting on a financial "egg" that will never hatch. 

 

It's also worth mentioning that Hamilton has 580,000 people, roughly the same size as podunk town Boston (home of the Red Sox, Bruins, etc.). In other words, there is precedent that a city the size of Hamilton (like Boston for example) can be enormously successful in any pro sports league.

 

(I'd drop the mic again but I already dropped it.)

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by WordsOfWisdom

[WordsOfWisdom]

At the end of the day, the NHL is going to do what it's going to do. They probably will choose Houston as their next destination. The NHL has made it very clear with their expansion/relocation decisions (Panthers, Coyotes, Thrashers, etc.) that they're not interested in putting hockey teams in proven hockey markets where they can draw money. The NHL is interested in putting hockey teams in non-hockey markets with the dream of creating a new hockey market where none exists. They're always chasing the dream at the expense of existing fans. Almost like the NHL tries to punish Canadian hockey fans for their support. 

 

If it were up to me (and we know it isn't), my business policy would be to tap into all of the proven hockey markets first, and exhaust all avenues for revenue in the areas where the game is strongest before seeking new markets. Exactly the opposite of what the NHL is doing. Expansion would be a careful decision and there would need to be at least some fan interest present (a well supported minor league hockey team present for example) before such a decision would be made.

 

People can say: "well, the NHL is a multi-billion dollar industry, so clearly they know what they're doing and you don't"..... whereas I would say: "the NHL is dead last by a mile among the major pro sports leagues so clearly they don't know what they're doing.... otherwise they wouldn't be dead last". So it's the glass half full/empty thing again.  Is a league successful because it makes billions or is it a failure because it makes 2 billion while other leagues make 10 billion? I guess it depends what you use as a measuring stick and who you compare yourself to. No other pro sports league pushes to have franchises in locations where fan interest is minimal or non-existent.

 

MLB has two franchises in New York, Chicago, and LA.  The NHL has two franchises in New York. It should have two franchises in Toronto and Montreal. The idea of Hamilton or Quebec City having an NHL franchise isn't a pipe dream. Hamilton taps into a huge southern Ontario market that is the richest in hockey. Hamilton would become a powerhouse NHL franchise like Toronto, and I think that's what Bettman fears. I think Bettman has tried to remove the game from Canada during his tenure as NHL commissioner. Under his administration, Canada went from having 1/3 of the teams (8/24) to having less than 1/4 (7/32) of the teams. He also moved NHL headquarters from Toronto to New York. I think deep down inside, Bettman doesn't want to give any more power to the Canadian NHL franchises than they already have. I think it's a personal vendetta for him. In 30 years, Bettman has done nothing to expand the game in Canada. It has been total stagnation or regression.

 

And let's not forget that the Oilers wouldn't exist if not for the WHA. Neither would the Canucks, Nordiques, or Jets. The NHL has made it their policy to ignore Canada, and it took a rival hockey league going head to head with them to finally get them to wake up.

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by WordsOfWisdom

[radoran]

13 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

So the Toronto Blue Jays are worth more than the Boston Red Sox?  (mic drop)  

 

From Google search:

Boston: ~685,000 population

Toronto: ~2.93 million population

 

Boston Metro - 4.9M

 

Nearly 8.5M in the greater statistical area around it.

 

37 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

The NHL has made it very clear with their expansion/relocation decisions (Panthers, Coyotes, Thrashers, etc.) that they're not interested in putting hockey teams in proven hockey markets where they can draw money.

 

Where did that nefarious league send the Thrashers?

 

Oh, right, Winnipeg...

 

Remember when it was insane that the North Stars moved to "non hockey market" Dallas? Dallas is averaging a few hundred less per game in attendance than Minnesota this year. "not a hockey market" Tampa Bay is #1.

 

It's called "growing the game" - and the growth potential is in the US, not in a country that is already bonkers for hockey. A second team in Tronno or Montreal, or shoehorning franchises into Hamilton or Quebec City isn't going to "grow the game" at all.

 

37 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

The NHL has two franchises in New York. It should have two franchises in Toronto and Montreal.

 

The reason there aren't two in those places - and the reason there isn't a team in Hamilton and to a large part Quebec City - are the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Montreal Canadiens. To a lesser extent, Buffalo when it comes to Hamilton.

 

Neither of those teams want any competition.

 

37 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

I think it's a personal vendetta for him. In 30 years, Bettman has done nothing to expand the game in Canada. It has been total stagnation or regression.

 

Except for putting a team back in Winnipeg and making all of the existing franchise more valuable. Aside from that, not much. Good point.

 

Here, I think you dropped this...

Edited January 12, 2022 by radoran

[WordsOfWisdom]

9 hours ago, radoran said:

Boston Metro - 4.9M

 

Nearly 8.5M in the greater statistical area around it.

 

LIES! ALL LIES!!!  (Sorry, Austin Powers movie reference lol.)  

 

I specifically went with the city only and not the surrounding area for every city I listed for simplicity sake! (Otherwise Hamilton gets to count the entire GTA as well and that cancels your 8.5M real quick.)   Just SMASH that LIKE button!   

 

9 hours ago, radoran said:

Where did that nefarious league send the Thrashers?

 

Oh, right, Winnipeg...

 

They sent the Winnipeg Jets to Phoenix to become the biggest and longest standing flop in NHL history.  Imagine if the NHL had:

• Left the Jets in Winnipeg
• Left the Nordiques in Quebec
• Left the North Stars in Minnesota
• Left the Whalers in Hartford
• Expanded into Colorado instead of putting a second team in Florida (Panthers)
• Expanded into Seattle instead of putting a team in Phoenix
• Expanded into Hamilton instead of putting a team in Nashville
• Expanded into Markham instead of putting a team in Carolina

Now.... you tell me which NHL you would rather have.  That would be a powerhouse, revenue-generating monster of an NHL.

 

Ontario would be a battleground of teams (Toronto, Ottawa, Hamilton, Markham). The battle of Quebec would be alive and well. You still get your expansion into places like Colorado, Columbus, but all the teams are mostly kept northward in a hockey climate where hockey culture is a thing. 

 

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

9 hours ago, radoran said:

Here, I think you dropped this...

 

Yes, that's my mic!  

[Puck_Pun]

Sell out games a possibility on the horizon

 

Link

 

Report: Coyotes working on deal to play at 5,000-seat arena at ASU

 

The Arizona Coyotes are working on a multi-year deal to play next season at Arizona State University’s yet-to-be-completed 5,000-seat arena, according to a report by Craig Morgan of PHNX Sports.

 

Morgan reported that the Coyotes would play in the arena, which appears to not have had naming rights sold for it, for the next three to four years while construction on an as-yet-approved arena in nearby Tempe is completed.

 

The 5,000-seat capacity would be by far the lowest in the NHL. Canada Life Centre in Winnipeg currently has the lowest official capacity, at 15,294.

 

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told Morgan in an email, “While we have arena standards, we would approach the entire situation in a way intended to accommodate the club’s needs in effectuating a successful transition to a new venue. While there may very well be some, I can’t think of any hard and fast rules that couldn’t be relaxed to accommodate what is necessary.” He added, when Morgan asked specifically about approving a move to an arena with such a small capacity, “depends on the totality of circumstances, but I wouldn’t rule it out.”

 

When contacted by Sportsnet, a Coyotes spokesman replied with the statement, “As we have said many times, we are completely committed to building our future in Arizona. As part of that process, we are excited to be exploring some great temporary arena options here before we move in to a new permanent home in the Valley.”

 

The NHLPA told Morgan a few issues must be sorted out before the move.

 

“The Coyotes’ anticipated move in 2022-23 from Gila River Arena in Glendale to a temporary Arizona venue raises a number of matters that the league and the NHLPA will need to work through,” a spokesperson for the NHLPA said. “Ideally, these matters will be sorted out well in advance of next season.”

 

The Coyotes have the third-lowest attendance in the league, averaging 11,575 per game, above only the Ottawa Senators and Buffalo Sabres.

 

The new arena, which is just east of Sun Devil Stadium, is projected to open this fall and is still under construction. According to AZCentral.com, the new arena is intended to be the home to the Arizona State University NCAA Division I hockey team, “wrestling and women’s gymnastics and be a venue for concerts, conferences, youth competitions and other events.”

 

Morgan added that because of NCAA rules, the Coyotes would have to construct their own team-specific areas, such as dressing rooms, training facilities, etc. A source estimated to Morgan that the cost to the Coyotes for the additions would be $15 million to $20 million.

 

The Coyotes have been leasing Gila River Arena on an annual basis since the Glendale City Council voted to opt out of a multimillion-dollar long-term deal in 2016. Glendale announced recently that it will not renew its agreement with the franchise beyond the 2021-22 season.

 

The Coyotes have played at Gila River Arena since moving from America West Arena, which they shared with the NBA’s Phoenix Suns in downtown Phoenix, in 2003.

 

In September, the Coyotes proposed the $1.7-billion development in Tempe, a city just east of Phoenix, that included a hockey arena, restaurants, shops and apartments on a 46-acre tract of land near the city’s downtown. The proposal was in danger of not getting enough votes to pass, Morgan previously reported.

[Math]

When I click on the PHNXSports link, I got the following message: "error 404 - there's a loading page problem due to multiple redirection links"

 

Wrong. There's a problem with the franchise.

[Puck_Pun]

More news regarding their stadium deal

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

6 hours ago, Puck_Pun said:

More news regarding their stadium deal

 

This really is a sad state of affairs.

I honestly hope, for the sake of the actual good fans who support the team (crazy as it sounds, there ARE some....I know a few who live out there that do!), for the sake of the league, and for the sake of the players who pour their blood, sweat, tears, and spend their prime years there, that this organization, sooner than later, gets its act together.

I won't pretend to know every aspect of "How The Coyotes Arrived Here", as truly, I stopped reading about the doings some time back because of how cringeworthy it all was to me as a general NHL fan, but it is my understanding the combination of the league offices and the team itself brought this down on this organization.

At some point in NHL history there was the "save the Penguins" thing....and yes, I even recall in my college years talk of either "moving the Lightning" or even doing away with them altogether because of how much of a joke they were and "No one in Florida cares about hockey".

Can the Coyotes get through all that and be fine on the other side of things like Pittsburgh and Tampa Bay did?
I don't know.
Arizona here is a new, special kind of ridiculous not seen even by the jester Lightning of the late 90's.
There were heavy hitter figures pushing to save the beloved Pittsburgh franchise, as well as well known hockey people (Wayne Gretzky if memory serves was one) who where instrumental at one point to help keep hockey in Tampa, FL.

Doesn't look to me like the Arizona Coyotes have that similar love and backing from....well, anyone with the 'juice' to do something about it.

And as we speak, the 'Yotes have a butt load of draft picks piled up (8 picks in the first three rounds in the upcoming draft...plus another 7 picks in the first three rounds in NEXT year's draft), but all that means, should Arizona actually use them, is that a generation of young talent will be either groomed to leave town and become stars elsewhere, or clamoring to get the hell out of their as soon as they are able to.... all the while wasting away prime years in what looks like a dead end organization in terms of longevity, respect, and competitiveness.

[Math]

Rename them the Arizona Forkbutts.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

1 hour ago, Math said:

Rename them the Arizona Forkbutts.

 

You know, for attempting to generate fan interest despite being awful for the next several seasons, I was thinking the Coyotes could do what the Lightning did in the late 90's: Embrace the goon.

Granted, we are no longer in the era for that kind of hockey, and where Tampa Bay got away with it during the 90's, Arizona probably couldn't now.
Basically, since the Lightning were so bad, ownership (all the clowns that ran the team prior to the current and awesome Jeff Vinik) decided they were gonna lose anyways, so they went about collecting all the goons, rats, agitators, and low rung hockey players they could sign, as long as that player did outrageous things on the ice that would get the team noticed as one of the most penalized teams in the league.

Obviously not a recipe for winning games, but it attempted to at least keep fans entertained and watching to see what "the bad boys" were gonna do next.

TB was home to such stand up, on ice knuckle draggers such as Enrico Ciccone, Andrei Nazarov, Louie DeBrusk, Darcy Tucker, Sandy McCarthy, Igor Ulanov, Kjell Samuelsson, Brantt Myhres, and a bunch of others I probably am not remembering right now.

And many of these guys were on the team in the SAME YEARS, to give you an idea of the sort of blatant goonery the Bolts engaged in during those dark times of 40-50 loss seasons.

Different era now, and a shame for the Yotes....but that would certainly be a way, for better or worse, to keep some sort of interest in the team as they go through, as the article says, this "most embarrassing time" for the franchise.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, Math said:

Rename them the Arizona Forkbutts.

 

They'll move after they have secured Bedard...it will make them more attractive to their suitors then...

 

...I mean when you think about it for as long as they have sucked they have never had the #1 overall pick have they?

 

Am I forgetting it?

 

Uncle Gary will deliver.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by OccamsRazor
#boubonup

[radoran]

37 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I mean when you think about it for as long as they have sucked they have never had the #1 overall pick have they?

 

Since 1996, they've only picked top ten nine times. It's really insane.

 

Then, over the past five drafts, ten players have played any NHL games with just two playing more than half a season.

 

Who does their drafting? Ron Hextall?

 

It's also the story of a team that has always been struggling just to make the playoffs because then something could happen. They wind up with mid-round draft picks and never really grab a star player (hello #3 overall Kyle Turris or #6 OEL).

 

Where have we seen that repeated recently...?

 

[OccamsRazor]

50 minutes ago, radoran said:

Since 1996, they've only picked top ten nine times. It's really insane.

 

That is crazy.

 

I remember years back when they said they were going to use analytics with their scouting and well still not much of a change.

 

What will it take for them to get their shat together?

 

Well for one it might help if they could spend to the cap limit instead of trying to get just to the floor.

 

Imagine how bad the Flyers would be if they were just to barely get to the cap floor.

 

Nevermind I don't want to be nauseous.

[radoran]

47 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Well for one it might help if they could spend to the cap limit instead of trying to get just to the floor.

 

They had a $76M payroll last season. That's $5M in space left. Granted, there's $9.5M in IR cap hits and another $2.7M in dead cap from buyouts (including the aforementioned OEL)

 

But they weren't even last in the league. Nine teams spent less than the Coyotes.

 

50 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Imagine how bad the Flyers would be if they were just to barely get to the cap floor.

 

Only one of those nine were worse than the Flyers - Seattle. Two made the playoffs. One's still playing.

 

Flyers were 10th overall in spending last year. $84M. In the East they were better than... the #1 overall spending team, the Montreal Canadiens.

 

Of the nine teams that spent more than them, four missed the playoffs.

 

It's not how much you spend, it's how well.

 

They have a ton of picks over the next two drafts but they're going to need to do a LOT better than they have over the past five years. Their four first round picks over that time have a grand total of 134 games played.

[Puck_Pun]

As fun as it is to joke about it, this whole situation is terrible. It's not a good look for the league, and certainly the long term viability of the team. 

 

What's the news for the new stadium? Is that actually going ahead, I can't remember

[Math]

Four years? Damn... Here in Québec City they managed to built a useless arena in less than 1.5 years.

[Math]

2 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Doesn't necessarily mean the build will take 4 years.  There's much more to it than just the build time.

 

Right, I was too lazy to consider this project as a whole. Once they have the approval, the location and all hurdles jumped, I guess the sole building could be pretty quick.

[Brewin Flames]

Coyotes make progress on new arena proposal for Tempe

Council votes to allow negotiations between city, developer

NHL.com @NHLdotcom

 9:33 AM

•  

 

The Arizona Coyotes' goal of a new arena in Tempe took a step forward Thursday. 

 

In a special meeting, the Tempe City Council voted 5-2 in favor of the city and the developer to begin negotiations on reaching a deal for an arena and entertainment complex that would become the new home of the Coyotes. 

 

The developer, Bluebird LLC, was formed by Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo.

 

"We are extremely pleased that the Tempe City Council has voted to proceed with negotiations on development of the Tempe Entertainment District," the Coyotes said in a statement. "Having heard all the facts, they have recognized the incredible opportunity that this project presents - not only for the Coyotes but also for the City of Tempe. We look forward to taking the next steps to turn this exciting vision into a reality."

 

According to GoPHNX.com, the city of Tempe issued a request for proposal (RFP) almost 11 months ago for the 46-acre site along the south bank of the Salt River just east of Priest Drive.

 

 

The Coyotes proposed a development that, in addition to the new arena, would include hotels, apartments, retail stores and a sportsbook. They have said it would be privately financed and no public money would be used for any of the buildings. 

 

Members of the Coyotes, including president and CEO Xavier Gutierrez, chief hockey development officer Shane Doan, who played 21 seasons with the franchise, and current players Clayton Keller, Christian Fischer and Nick Schmaltz, spoke at the meeting before the vote.

 

 "You [Coyotes] have done an excellent job resetting the tone and addressing the concerns we have all had," vice mayor Randy Keating said. "This is not an indication that I will support or not support the project but I am willing to hear more."

 

During the meeting that lasted over eight hours, various entities and hundreds of Tempe residents voiced their opinions for or against the project. 

"[Council meetings] are like this and you understand the importance of it because the people need to feel that they have the right to come out and say what they want to say," Doan said. "As Xavier said, this is the first step. We know that we have more, and we know that we're going to be part of it. We want to work with the city and we want to do everything we can and answer the people's questions.  

 

"We want this to be a building and a development for everybody, something that everyone's proud of."

 

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman joined the start of the meeting virtually to say he endorses the plan for the new arena. 

 

"I want to stress to all of you that the NHL is in full support of the Coyotes organization and ownership and to the future of hockey in Arizona," Bettman said. "The NHL's long history with Arizona has demonstrated that we have passionate and incredible hockey fans.

 

Not only passionate, they are smart, devoted and deserve the very best. And this proposed project, we believe, represents the very best. It will be transformative not just for the franchise and for our league, but also for the city of Tempe.

 

"We believe that this is a great opportunity for Tempe and to finally get the Coyotes a home in the right location. The NHL is committed to the success of NHL hockey in the Valley and this new project is essential in that regard."

 

Bettman said that when the project is complete, the Coyotes will be required to sign an agreement that they would not be allowed to relocate. 

"Long term, they want to be in Tempe and we want them to be Tempe. Period."

 

The franchise relocated from Winnipeg to Phoenix to begin the 1996-97 season, sharing America West Arena with the Phoenix Suns of the NBA until moving to Glendale in 2003.

 

Glendale broke off negotiations on a multiyear lease extension agreement Aug. 19 and informed the Coyotes that this season would be their last at Gila River Arena. 

 

The Coyotes will play at a new arena on the campus of Arizona State University beginning next NHL season.

 

The agreement, which was approved by the Arizona Board of Regents in February, will have the Coyotes play home games there through the 2024-25 season, with an option for 2025-26.

 

The Coyotes will pay about $20 million for multiple upgrades to the 5,000-seat multipurpose home of the university's independent NCAA Division I men's ice hockey team.

 

"Today is a great night," Gutierrez said. "[The fans] should absolutely be excited. We know we still have a long way to go, and we'll acknowledge that, but tonight's a night to celebrate.

 

This is the first step of something we know that has got a great, great vision and a great opportunity to be the home that all these fans, and our fans in waiting, have deserved." 

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, Brewin Flames said:

The Coyotes proposed a development that, in addition to the new arena, would include hotels, apartments, retail stores and a sportsbook.

 

 

 

BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME....

[Puck_Pun]

[Math]

 

[radoran]

The idea that the league is allowing this to happen is disturbing.

 

I get worrying about whether the CBA protects players enough on the ice.

 

I've managed in high school rinks with better facilities. Thirty years ago.

[OccamsRazor]

12 hours ago, Math said:

 

 

This is sad and should be embarrassing for the NHL to let their player be treated like this.

[Brewin Flames]

Coyotes say they have six possible sites for arena in Phoenix area

 

Arizona Coyotes - The Canadian Press

 

 

The Canadian Press

Published Jun 28, 2023 at 07:11 PM ET

More options

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — The Arizona Coyotes say they have identified a half-dozen potential sites to construct a privately funded arena and entertainment district to revive what might be the franchise’s last opportunity to stay in the Phoenix area.

Speaking before the start of the NHL draft, president and CEO Xavier Gutierrez said each of the sites are located in the east valley in the 101 Highway corridor that covers the cities of Scottsdale, Phoenix and Mesa. Just as important, he said each of the locations would be available to be purchased, which would negate the need for a public referendum, which scuttled the Coyotes plans to build a similar complex in Tempe last month.

“We still want to put our money where our mouth is and build something that’ll be best in class,” said Gutierrez, whose team is prepared to play its second season at a 5,000-seat college rink on Arizona State’s campus.

 

“To all the fans, we are committed to making this happen,” he added. “We were disappointed with the vote in Tempe, but we turned the page very quickly.”

The Coyotes ever-unstable future in Arizona took another hit after voters overwhelmingly voted “no” to the proposed $2.3 billion Tempe Entertainment District. The referendum was required because the project was to be built on public land.

 

Gutierrez said many of the sites were identified were previously considered but passed over, believing the Tempe location would be approved. He added, the plans prepared for the now-rejected Tempe location can be used for the other sites without major changes.

 

In laying out a loose timeline, Gutierrez expects to present the league one or more options by early 2024 which is in line with recent expectations raised by NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman, who wants an answer by midseason.

 

“The NHL has not given us any (deadlines),” Gutierrez said. “We have been in constant communication with them about all of the options that we have.

 

They feel very confident that we’re doing the right thing.”

 

The Coyotes have been committed to playing at their current home for two more seasons, with an option for a fourth, which would still be within the timeframe to build a new arena on a new location.

The Coyotes arena status drew criticism from newly hired NHL Players’ Association chief Marty Walsh, who recently called it “not good for the game.”

 

Gutierrez didn’t entirely disagree, while stressing their current home has always considered as being temporary.

 

“I understand his commentary. We share the fact that it is a temporary location, and we’ve never tried to hide that fact,” he said.

 

Bettman earlier this month reaffirmed the league's commitment to Arizona and voiced optimism about keeping the Coyotes there.

 

“The Arizona Coyotes are going to explore what their other options are in the greater Phoenix area, and we’re going to monitor that closely," Bettman said in Las Vegas prior to the start of the Stanley Cup Final. "Our hope is that one of the options that are being explored and considered will come to fruition.”