Jump to content

Coyotes New Owner: "We Are Staying in the Desert"


Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, radoran said:

Teams in a market of multi millions of people are more valuable than teams in markets of hundreds of thousands.

 

So the Toronto Blue Jays are worth more than the Boston Red Sox?  (mic drop)  🎤

 

From Google search:

Boston: ~685,000 population

Toronto: ~2.93 million population

 

Should we relocate the Boston Red Sox from their "podunk" US town into Montreal? 

 

Montreal: ~1.78 million population

 

That's the logic you are using right now.  I know what you're saying but I'm trying to explain to you (kindly) why your thinking is wrong.

 

You're basically sitting on a financial "egg" that will never hatch. 

 

It's also worth mentioning that Hamilton has 580,000 people, roughly the same size as podunk town Boston (home of the Red Sox, Bruins, etc.). In other words, there is precedent that a city the size of Hamilton (like Boston for example) can be enormously successful in any pro sports league.

 

(I'd drop the mic again but I already dropped it.)

 

😃👍

Edited by WordsOfWisdom
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 69
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I'm posting back a previous message I wrote in an another topic about QC City having a team. I'm living in QC City but in a strict business/revenue point of view, bringing a team here is not an option for the following reasons: Small market: with Québec in the NHL, this will be the smallest market, even smaller than Arizona and Florida. French market: I know I'll piss my frenchie fellas, but this is a major drawback in terms of revenue generation, marketing and stuff. Besides that,

I hear that the way the Stars solved the problem was to build a whole lot of ice rinks in the area in order to build a fan base with actual skating/playing experience.

I was once told that in Nevada probably about 8 years before the Vegas Golden Knights arrived.  It doesn't seem so ridiculous now.  Of course, its pretty tough to not like a winning team right out of the gate.     As far as Arizona goes.  I think they have some fans, but not nearly enough to keep that team going.  Nice arena, but people don't go there.  Almost anytime the Wild play there, we have more fans than they do.     I think the franchise would be better served in Hous

Posted Images

At the end of the day, the NHL is going to do what it's going to do. They probably will choose Houston as their next destination. The NHL has made it very clear with their expansion/relocation decisions (Panthers, Coyotes, Thrashers, etc.) that they're not interested in putting hockey teams in proven hockey markets where they can draw money. The NHL is interested in putting hockey teams in non-hockey markets with the dream of creating a new hockey market where none exists. They're always chasing the dream at the expense of existing fans. Almost like the NHL tries to punish Canadian hockey fans for their support. 

 

If it were up to me (and we know it isn't), my business policy would be to tap into all of the proven hockey markets first, and exhaust all avenues for revenue in the areas where the game is strongest before seeking new markets. Exactly the opposite of what the NHL is doing. Expansion would be a careful decision and there would need to be at least some fan interest present (a well supported minor league hockey team present for example) before such a decision would be made.

 

People can say: "well, the NHL is a multi-billion dollar industry, so clearly they know what they're doing and you don't"..... whereas I would say: "the NHL is dead last by a mile among the major pro sports leagues so clearly they don't know what they're doing.... otherwise they wouldn't be dead last". So it's the glass half full/empty thing again.  Is a league successful because it makes billions or is it a failure because it makes 2 billion while other leagues make 10 billion? I guess it depends what you use as a measuring stick and who you compare yourself to. No other pro sports league pushes to have franchises in locations where fan interest is minimal or non-existent.

 

MLB has two franchises in New York, Chicago, and LA.  The NHL has two franchises in New York. It should have two franchises in Toronto and Montreal. The idea of Hamilton or Quebec City having an NHL franchise isn't a pipe dream. Hamilton taps into a huge southern Ontario market that is the richest in hockey. Hamilton would become a powerhouse NHL franchise like Toronto, and I think that's what Bettman fears. I think Bettman has tried to remove the game from Canada during his tenure as NHL commissioner. Under his administration, Canada went from having 1/3 of the teams (8/24) to having less than 1/4 (7/32) of the teams. He also moved NHL headquarters from Toronto to New York. I think deep down inside, Bettman doesn't want to give any more power to the Canadian NHL franchises than they already have. I think it's a personal vendetta for him. In 30 years, Bettman has done nothing to expand the game in Canada. It has been total stagnation or regression.

 

And let's not forget that the Oilers wouldn't exist if not for the WHA. Neither would the Canucks, Nordiques, or Jets. The NHL has made it their policy to ignore Canada, and it took a rival hockey league going head to head with them to finally get them to wake up.

 

Edited by WordsOfWisdom
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

So the Toronto Blue Jays are worth more than the Boston Red Sox?  (mic drop)  🎤

 

From Google search:

Boston: ~685,000 population

Toronto: ~2.93 million population

 

Boston Metro - 4.9M

 

Nearly 8.5M in the greater statistical area around it.

 

37 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

The NHL has made it very clear with their expansion/relocation decisions (Panthers, Coyotes, Thrashers, etc.) that they're not interested in putting hockey teams in proven hockey markets where they can draw money.

 

Where did that nefarious league send the Thrashers?

 

Oh, right, Winnipeg...

 

Remember when it was insane that the North Stars moved to "non hockey market" Dallas? Dallas is averaging a few hundred less per game in attendance than Minnesota this year. "not a hockey market" Tampa Bay is #1.

 

It's called "growing the game" - and the growth potential is in the US, not in a country that is already bonkers for hockey. A second team in Tronno or Montreal, or shoehorning franchises into Hamilton or Quebec City isn't going to "grow the game" at all.

 

37 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

The NHL has two franchises in New York. It should have two franchises in Toronto and Montreal.

 

The reason there aren't two in those places - and the reason there isn't a team in Hamilton and to a large part Quebec City - are the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Montreal Canadiens. To a lesser extent, Buffalo when it comes to Hamilton.

 

Neither of those teams want any competition.

 

37 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

I think it's a personal vendetta for him. In 30 years, Bettman has done nothing to expand the game in Canada. It has been total stagnation or regression.

 

Except for putting a team back in Winnipeg and making all of the existing franchise more valuable. Aside from that, not much. Good point.

 

Here, I think you dropped this... 🎤

Edited by radoran
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, radoran said:

Boston Metro - 4.9M

 

Nearly 8.5M in the greater statistical area around it.

 

LIES! ALL LIES!!!  (Sorry, Austin Powers movie reference lol.)  🤣

 

I specifically went with the city only and not the surrounding area for every city I listed for simplicity sake! (Otherwise Hamilton gets to count the entire GTA as well and that cancels your 8.5M real quick.)   Just SMASH that LIKE button!   😍

 

9 hours ago, radoran said:

Where did that nefarious league send the Thrashers?

 

Oh, right, Winnipeg...

 

They sent the Winnipeg Jets to Phoenix to become the biggest and longest standing flop in NHL history.  Imagine if the NHL had:

  • Left the Jets in Winnipeg
  • Left the Nordiques in Quebec
  • Left the North Stars in Minnesota
  • Left the Whalers in Hartford
  • Expanded into Colorado instead of putting a second team in Florida (Panthers)
  • Expanded into Seattle instead of putting a team in Phoenix
  • Expanded into Hamilton instead of putting a team in Nashville
  • Expanded into Markham instead of putting a team in Carolina

Now.... you tell me which NHL you would rather have.  That would be a powerhouse, revenue-generating monster of an NHL.

 

Ontario would be a battleground of teams (Toronto, Ottawa, Hamilton, Markham). The battle of Quebec would be alive and well. You still get your expansion into places like Colorado, Columbus, but all the teams are mostly kept northward in a hockey climate where hockey culture is a thing.  :)

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Sell out games a possibility on the horizon

 

Link

 

Report: Coyotes working on deal to play at 5,000-seat arena at ASU

 

The Arizona Coyotes are working on a multi-year deal to play next season at Arizona State University’s yet-to-be-completed 5,000-seat arena, according to a report by Craig Morgan of PHNX Sports.

 

Morgan reported that the Coyotes would play in the arena, which appears to not have had naming rights sold for it, for the next three to four years while construction on an as-yet-approved arena in nearby Tempe is completed.

 

The 5,000-seat capacity would be by far the lowest in the NHL. Canada Life Centre in Winnipeg currently has the lowest official capacity, at 15,294.

 

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told Morgan in an email, “While we have arena standards, we would approach the entire situation in a way intended to accommodate the club’s needs in effectuating a successful transition to a new venue. While there may very well be some, I can’t think of any hard and fast rules that couldn’t be relaxed to accommodate what is necessary.” He added, when Morgan asked specifically about approving a move to an arena with such a small capacity, “depends on the totality of circumstances, but I wouldn’t rule it out.”

 

When contacted by Sportsnet, a Coyotes spokesman replied with the statement, “As we have said many times, we are completely committed to building our future in Arizona. As part of that process, we are excited to be exploring some great temporary arena options here before we move in to a new permanent home in the Valley.”

 

The NHLPA told Morgan a few issues must be sorted out before the move.

 

“The Coyotes’ anticipated move in 2022-23 from Gila River Arena in Glendale to a temporary Arizona venue raises a number of matters that the league and the NHLPA will need to work through,” a spokesperson for the NHLPA said. “Ideally, these matters will be sorted out well in advance of next season.”

 

The Coyotes have the third-lowest attendance in the league, averaging 11,575 per game, above only the Ottawa Senators and Buffalo Sabres.

 

The new arena, which is just east of Sun Devil Stadium, is projected to open this fall and is still under construction. According to AZCentral.com, the new arena is intended to be the home to the Arizona State University NCAA Division I hockey team, “wrestling and women’s gymnastics and be a venue for concerts, conferences, youth competitions and other events.”

 

Morgan added that because of NCAA rules, the Coyotes would have to construct their own team-specific areas, such as dressing rooms, training facilities, etc. A source estimated to Morgan that the cost to the Coyotes for the additions would be $15 million to $20 million.

 

The Coyotes have been leasing Gila River Arena on an annual basis since the Glendale City Council voted to opt out of a multimillion-dollar long-term deal in 2016. Glendale announced recently that it will not renew its agreement with the franchise beyond the 2021-22 season.

 

The Coyotes have played at Gila River Arena since moving from America West Arena, which they shared with the NBA’s Phoenix Suns in downtown Phoenix, in 2003.

 

In September, the Coyotes proposed the $1.7-billion development in Tempe, a city just east of Phoenix, that included a hockey arena, restaurants, shops and apartments on a 46-acre tract of land near the city’s downtown. The proposal was in danger of not getting enough votes to pass, Morgan previously reported.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I click on the PHNXSports link, I got the following message: "error 404 - there's a loading page problem due to multiple redirection links"

 

Wrong. There's a problem with the franchise.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...
6 hours ago, Puck_Pun said:

More news regarding their stadium deal

FB_IMG_1652852108757.jpg

 

This really is a sad state of affairs.

I honestly hope, for the sake of the actual good fans who support the team (crazy as it sounds, there ARE some....I know a few who live out there that do!), for the sake of the league, and for the sake of the players who pour their blood, sweat, tears, and spend their prime years there, that this organization, sooner than later, gets its act together.

I won't pretend to know every aspect of "How The Coyotes Arrived Here", as truly, I stopped reading about the doings some time back because of how cringeworthy it all was to me as a general NHL fan, but it is my understanding the combination of the league offices and the team itself brought this down on this organization.

At some point in NHL history there was the "save the Penguins" thing....and yes, I even recall in my college years talk of either "moving the Lightning" or even doing away with them altogether because of how much of a joke they were and "No one in Florida cares about hockey".

Can the Coyotes get through all that and be fine on the other side of things like Pittsburgh and Tampa Bay did?
I don't know.
Arizona here is a new, special kind of ridiculous not seen even by the jester Lightning of the late 90's.
There were heavy hitter figures pushing to save the beloved Pittsburgh franchise, as well as well known hockey people (Wayne Gretzky if memory serves was one) who where instrumental at one point to help keep hockey in Tampa, FL.

Doesn't look to me like the Arizona Coyotes have that similar love and backing from....well, anyone with the 'juice' to do something about it.

And as we speak, the 'Yotes have a butt load of draft picks piled up (8 picks in the first three rounds in the upcoming draft...plus another 7 picks in the first three rounds in NEXT year's draft), but all that means, should Arizona actually use them, is that a generation of young talent will be either groomed to leave town and become stars elsewhere, or clamoring to get the hell out of their as soon as they are able to.... all the while wasting away prime years in what looks like a dead end organization in terms of longevity, respect, and competitiveness.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Math said:

Rename them the Arizona Forkbutts.

 

You know, for attempting to generate fan interest despite being awful for the next several seasons, I was thinking the Coyotes could do what the Lightning did in the late 90's: Embrace the goon.

Granted, we are no longer in the era for that kind of hockey, and where Tampa Bay got away with it during the 90's, Arizona probably couldn't now.
Basically, since the Lightning were so bad, ownership (all the clowns that ran the team prior to the current and awesome Jeff Vinik) decided they were gonna lose anyways, so they went about collecting all the goons, rats, agitators, and low rung hockey players they could sign, as long as that player did outrageous things on the ice that would get the team noticed as one of the most penalized teams in the league.

Obviously not a recipe for winning games, but it attempted to at least keep fans entertained and watching to see what "the bad boys" were gonna do next.

TB was home to such stand up, on ice knuckle draggers such as Enrico Ciccone, Andrei Nazarov, Louie DeBrusk, Darcy Tucker, Sandy McCarthy, Igor Ulanov, Kjell Samuelsson, Brantt Myhres, and a bunch of others I probably am not remembering right now.

And many of these guys were on the team in the SAME YEARS, to give you an idea of the sort of blatant goonery the Bolts engaged in during those dark times of 40-50 loss seasons.

Different era now, and a shame for the Yotes....but that would certainly be a way, for better or worse, to keep some sort of interest in the team as they go through, as the article says, this "most embarrassing time" for the franchise.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Math said:

Rename them the Arizona Forkbutts.

 

They'll move after they have secured Bedard...it will make them more attractive to their suitors then...

 

...I mean when you think about it for as long as they have sucked they have never had the #1 overall pick have they?

 

Am I forgetting it?

 

Uncle Gary will deliver.

 

 

Edited by OccamsRazor
#boubonup
Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I mean when you think about it for as long as they have sucked they have never had the #1 overall pick have they?

 

Since 1996, they've only picked top ten nine times. It's really insane.

 

Then, over the past five drafts, ten players have played any NHL games with just two playing more than half a season.

 

Who does their drafting? Ron Hextall? :5a6425fa25331_VikingSkoool:

 

It's also the story of a team that has always been struggling just to make the playoffs because then something could happen. They wind up with mid-round draft picks and never really grab a star player (hello #3 overall Kyle Turris or #6 OEL).

 

Where have we seen that repeated recently...?

 

The Office Reaction GIF

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, radoran said:

Since 1996, they've only picked top ten nine times. It's really insane.

 

That is crazy.

 

I remember years back when they said they were going to use analytics with their scouting and well still not much of a change.

 

What will it take for them to get their shat together?

 

Well for one it might help if they could spend to the cap limit instead of trying to get just to the floor.

 

Imagine how bad the Flyers would be if they were just to barely get to the cap floor.

 

Nevermind I don't want to be nauseous.

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Well for one it might help if they could spend to the cap limit instead of trying to get just to the floor.

 

They had a $76M payroll last season. That's $5M in space left. Granted, there's $9.5M in IR cap hits and another $2.7M in dead cap from buyouts (including the aforementioned OEL)

 

But they weren't even last in the league. Nine teams spent less than the Coyotes.

 

50 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Imagine how bad the Flyers would be if they were just to barely get to the cap floor.

 

Only one of those nine were worse than the Flyers - Seattle. Two made the playoffs. One's still playing.

 

Flyers were 10th overall in spending last year. $84M. In the East they were better than... the #1 overall spending team, the Montreal Canadiens.

 

Of the nine teams that spent more than them, four missed the playoffs.

 

It's not how much you spend, it's how well.

 

They have a ton of picks over the next two drafts but they're going to need to do a LOT better than they have over the past five years. Their four first round picks over that time have a grand total of 134 games played.

  • Uggh... 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

As fun as it is to joke about it, this whole situation is terrible. It's not a good look for the league, and certainly the long term viability of the team. 

 

What's the news for the new stadium? Is that actually going ahead, I can't remember

Screenshot_20220519-070339_Reddit.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Puck_Pun said:

What's the news for the new stadium? Is that actually going ahead, I can't remember

They're still trying to close the Tempe deal.  Apparently, the Tempe City Council looked at the proposal at the beginning of April.  Haven't heard anything about those results.

 

From April 6th:

https://www.sportico.com/leagues/hockey/2022/nhl-coyotes-seek-home-ice-in-desert-1234670420/

"A Tempe city spokesperson said as recently as last week that evaluation is ongoing, and there’s no timetable for resolution."

"Even if approved, under optimal conditions it could be four years before a new Coyotes’ arena is open for business."

Edited by FireDillabaugh
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Doesn't necessarily mean the build will take 4 years.  There's much more to it than just the build time.

 

Right, I was too lazy to consider this project as a whole. Once they have the approval, the location and all hurdles jumped, I guess the sole building could be pretty quick.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...