Where Do Flyers Rank in Metropolitan for '20?

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

I saw this post and thought Gabrych's rank order is on point. Washington and Carolina are probably going to duke it out for the top.  Pitt is strong.  Where we end may be predicated on how well (poorly) we start with a new coach, system, and defense.  Sounding like a broken record, I see a "pre-post" Black Friday season split.  AV may be good, but even he needs time to juggle parts and impart a system.

 

https://broadstreetbuzz.com/2019/08/02/where-philadelphia-flyers-rank-metro-paper/

 

As for playoffs, my guess is an eighth year without a series win, which is appalling for this franchise and presence in a "new" NHL in which retooling should only take a few seasons. That said, this is the beginning of a new era with the O and B, and I hope it begins on a respectable note.  

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Hmmm...the actual order may be too jumbled at this stage to determine exactly, but from where I sit, it looks like the Caps and Pens SHOULD still be the class of the division and playing for the top spot... and yea, those waiting for the Pens to fall apart may just have to keep waiting a bit longer.

At the bottom, sadly, I see the Columbus Blue Jackets, along with the Rangers. Jackets simply lost too much and I don't think replaced what they lost with enough. Korpisalo replacing Bob? Nyquist replacing Panarin? Yea...exactly.
Plus, will Wennberg FINALLY emerge? Can Atkinson without Panarin be as successful? Just too many questions in a competitive division.

Rangers will continue their rebuild, and while it is going nicely, many of their players still have some growing to do and I can't see them becoming competitive just yet...at least not playoff competitive.

So that leaves the Canes, Devils, Isles, and Flyers in the middle of the division.
I like the Devils' off season, and I think both they (if they can get their goaltending sorted) and the Isles can make a case for the 3rd spot.

Canes will be hard pressed to duplicate what they did last season as I think the goaltending tandem of Mrazek and McBackup played WAY over their heads....can they do it again (Mrazek), only this time insert James "Bounced Around" Reimer into the equation as well.
They do have a nice attack however....

Flyers DO seem to have the goaltending sorted (if Hart can continue to build on what he started, and the backups just do their jobs), but may have questions elsewhere in the lineup...good talent, no doubt, but which ones will emerge..and will they emerge enough to be of any consequence for a playoff push?
I think Philly and the Rangers actually have a similar development curve, and since I think the Rangers still need more time to develop players and iron out other issues, so do the Flyers...although having a Giroux, Voracek, Couturier as veteran forwards gives them a nice bump in the forward ranks.

So there you have it, @Howie58 , Sir....I have your Flyers anywhere from the 4th position to possibly the 6th for now....but hey, anything can happen from now till the start of the season and players still haven't all settled into where they will be...and breakouts can ALWAYS happen.

[Howie58]

5 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Hmmm...the actual order may be too jumbled at this stage to determine exactly, but from where I sit, it looks like the Caps and Pens SHOULD still be the class of the division and playing for the top spot... and yea, those waiting for the Pens to fall apart may just have to keep waiting a bit longer.

At the bottom, sadly, I see the Columbus Blue Jackets, along with the Rangers. Jackets simply lost too much and I don't think replaced what they lost with enough. Korpisalo replacing Bob? Nyquist replacing Panarin? Yea...exactly.
Plus, will Wennberg FINALLY emerge? Can Atkinson without Panarin be as successful? Just too many questions in a competitive division.

Rangers will continue their rebuild, and while it is going nicely, many of their players still have some growing to do and I can't see them becoming competitive just yet...at least not playoff competitive.

So that leaves the Canes, Devils, Isles, and Flyers in the middle of the division.
I like the Devils' off season, and I think both they (if they can get their goaltending sorted) and the Isles can make a case for the 3rd spot.

Canes will be hard pressed to duplicate what they did last season as I think the goaltending tandem of Mrazek and McBackup played WAY over their heads....can they do it again (Mrazek), only this time insert James "Bounced Around" Reimer into the equation as well.
They do have a nice attack however....

Flyers DO seem to have the goaltending sorted (if Hart can continue to build on what he started, and the backups just do their jobs), but may have questions elsewhere in the lineup...good talent, no doubt, but which ones will emerge..and will they emerge enough to be of any consequence for a playoff push?
I think Philly and the Rangers actually have a similar development curve, and since I think the Rangers still need more time to develop players and iron out other issues, so do the Flyers...although having a Giroux, Voracek, Couturier as veteran forwards gives them a nice bump in the forward ranks.

So there you have it, @Howie58 , Sir....I have your Flyers anywhere from the 4th position to possibly the 6th for now....but hey, anything can happen from now till the start of the season and players still haven't all settled into where they will be...and breakouts can ALWAYS happen.

Dear TPG:

 

Thoughts:

 

1) Agreed--Ranger, Panthers, and Flyers will be interesting Eastern benchmarks;

2) Yep, intangibles matter; and

3)  I see the O and B and marginal playoff team at best, not because they are "bad," but in this league of parity, others are "good" or "better."

 

Peace,

 

Howie

[brelic]

RIght now, I'm thinking

 

Caps

Canes

Isles

Devils

Flyers

Pens

Rangers

Jackets

 

Unless the Adams division teams play poorly enough to only nab 3 spots, Flyers will once again be a bubble team. 

 

Of course, that outlook is based on nothing but paper evaluation on August 2nd. May change by August 3rd.

 

 

The big X factor for the Flyers, IMO, is if AV can finally get this group of chumps to play up to their potential from Game 1, and not Game 41.

 

When's the last time we actually saw that happen?

 

Eight years ago. The last time we were above .500 after 10 games and after 20 games. 

 

2018-2019, 4-6-0 after 10, 9-9-2 after 20, 15-20-6 at 41

2017-2018, 5-5-0, 8-8-4, 18-15-8

2016-2017, 4-5-1, 9-8-3, 21-15-5

2015-2016, 4-4-2, 6-9-5, 19-15-7

2014-2015, 4-4-2, 8-9-3, 16-18-7

2013-2014, 3-7-0, 8-10-2, 20-17-4

2012-2013, 4-6-0, 9-10-1, 17-21-3

2011-2012, 5-4-1, 11-6-3, 24-12-4

 

Seriously, that's consistently bad to start the season. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

My list...

 

Caps

Canes

Flyers

Isles

Pens

Devils

Rangers

Jackets

[mojo1917]

17 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Greetings:

 

I saw this post and thought Gabrych's rank order is on point. Washington and Carolina are probably going to duke it out for the top.  Pitt is strong.  Where we end may be predicated on how well (poorly) we start with a new coach, system, and defense.  Sounding like a broken record, I see a "pre-post" Black Friday season split.  AV may be good, but even he needs time to juggle parts and impart a system.

 

https://broadstreetbuzz.com/2019/08/02/where-philadelphia-flyers-rank-metro-paper/

 

As for playoffs, my guess is an eighth year without a series win, which is appalling for this franchise and presence in a "new" NHL in which retooling should only take a few seasons. That said, this is the beginning of a new era with the O and B, and I hope it begins on a respectable note.  

Hi Howie,

I don't share this pessimistic view of the team. 

I think with some good health at the right positions this team could challenge for the conference.  

One thing I feel certain of is there will be zero passengers this year. The coaching staff alone will have this team playing at a higher tempo, with more accountability.  I think the Flyers will be hard to play against. I remember A/V's Ranger teams giving up so few chances, some of that may have been personnel, however I think the Flyers roster compares favorably to those teams.

I think the Metro is a tough division and I think NJ could be the surprise primary rival again.  If Blackwood is the real deal look out, there's a good mix of vets and young skill there, Rejean has built a good team. I don't think Pgh is deep enough and the prospect pool has been depleted by keeping the 87,91,58 window open. They will be good again but they are two injured people away from being average.  I don't think Carolina will be the same team as last year either , not sold on their goaltending and if J Williams retires there's a huge loss of swagger in that room. If he comes back, how much does he have left ? 

Columbus lost a lot of talent, the Rangers are still rebuilding, Washington is good but that core is aging too...

I think the Flyers scouts have picked good players, I think Patrick,  Koneckny, and Lindblom all take strides forward. I think the Flyers will be very good in the near term.

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by mojo1917

[CoachX]

18 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Greetings:

 

I saw this post and thought Gabrych's rank order is on point. Washington and Carolina are probably going to duke it out for the top.  Pitt is strong.  Where we end may be predicated on how well (poorly) we start with a new coach, system, and defense.  Sounding like a broken record, I see a "pre-post" Black Friday season split.  AV may be good, but even he needs time to juggle parts and impart a system.

 

https://broadstreetbuzz.com/2019/08/02/where-philadelphia-flyers-rank-metro-paper/

 

As for playoffs, my guess is an eighth year without a series win, which is appalling for this franchise and presence in a "new" NHL in which retooling should only take a few seasons. That said, this is the beginning of a new era with the O and B, and I hope it begins on a respectable note.  

Right now they are tied for first. Its a good place to be at the start of the season

[OccamsRazor]

17 hours ago, brelic said:

The big X factor for the Flyers, IMO, is if AV can finally get this group of chumps to play up to their potential from Game 1, and not Game 41.

 

I think this is the biggest test for the players of course but the biggest for the coaching staff.

 

However starting the season with the best goalie i have ever had the chance of witnessing lace em up for the Flyers will be the huge X factor.

 

Hart i think can give this team a huge confidence boost out the gates letting the team know he has their back and will do his best to cover for their mistakes while they find chemistry and look to gel and learn the system on the fly.

 

I really hate to put this much pressure on such a young guy but it's there. I think he can handle it. But at the same time the team needs to do their best to help him out as well.

 

And that starts with a complete effort playing the 200 foot game which AV has harped on. The ones who are not on board i think will be weeded out.

 

The schedule will be tough to start the season over seas. On the road for awhile while the BlackHawks return home for 7 straight home games.

 

But it can go a long way winning the Blackhawks game who looked retooled but still many questions.

 

Then the quick test to see where the Devils are at for their next game at home.

 

So the West coast trip to Vancouver, Calgary and then Edmonton will be huge to get that win streak going.

 

I think they can come into the Calgary game 3-0. 

 

It is possible...maybe unlikely for them to start out 4-1. That would be a change. Toughest game on the stretch looks to be Calgary.

 

Getting so good production from the bottom 6 will go along ways. I think Lindblom scores 24 goals this year.

 

And the Raffl, Laughton and Pitlick line i hope can grind on the opposition. #fingerscrossed 

[CoachX]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

And the Raffl, Laughton and Pitlick line i hope can grind on the opposition. #fingerscrossed 

They are already grinding on my nerves

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

They are already grinding on my nerves

 

You really need to find another hobby.

 

How you guys (you know who you are) can worry sooo much about a team who hasn't even practiced once much less even played a game.

 

All that worrying isn't healthy....ya stomach must be riddled with ulcers.

 

It's going to be ok.

 

Trust.

 

The.

 

Process.

 

Later jumping in the pool with a cold beer enjoy your weekend.

 

Later.

[elmatus]

Honestly, I have no idea how I would rank this division in 19-20. The parity is astounding. I think it's a foregone conclusion that Columbus should be terrible. The Rangers likely shouldn't be great either.

 

Beyond that though, this season could go so many ways. It's going to be a mess I think. To try and guess which teams will make the playoffs out of this division is guesswork at best.

 

As far as the Flyers go, if the coaching staff doesn't turn this team around, the rest barely matters. Hart is great to have, but he's still very young and will almost certainly have some ups and downs all season long. Our core roster remains essentially unchanged, and none of the off-season additions are impact players of any real note. We can talk about the high potential youngins we have all we want, but good coaching is needed to make them into anything worthwhile.

 

All to say that coaching really is the big wild card this team needs to get right. Get that, and they have a solid chance at making some noise. Fail to get it, and we're just looking at more of the same as the last whatever years.

Edited August 4, 2019 by elmatus

[ruxpin]

My prediction:

 

1.  Flyers

2.  Carolina

3.  Washington

4.  New Jersey

5.  Islanders

6.  Pittsburgh

7.  Rangers 

8.  Columbus

[RonJeremy]

This season has the makings of 1979-80. We had a new coach ,Pat Quinn, rookie Peeters in net, solid vets like Clarke , Barber and Leach who were over 30, but the key was rookie Brian Propp scoring 34 goals. We have a new coach,  Carter Hart ,the new young goalie, some solid vets G, Voracek ,etc . Now we need Farabee or Rubstov to step in and have a big rookie season. Im not saying we are having a 35 game streak or going to the Cup, but this is gonna be a breakthrough season.

[FD19372]

9 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

This season has the makings of 1979-80. We had a new coach ,Pat Quinn, rookie Peeters in net, solid vets like Clarke , Barber and Leach who were over 30, but the key was rookie Brian Propp scoring 34 goals. We have a new coach,  Carter Hart ,the new young goalie, some solid vets G, Voracek ,etc . Now we need Farabee or Rubstov to step in and have a big rookie season. Im not saying we are having a 35 game streak or going to the Cup, but this is gonna be a breakthrough season.

So you're saying we're going to lose in the Cup Finals in 6 on an offsides goal?

[FD19372]

My Metro Division predictions

 

1) Washington

2) Carolina

3) Flyers

4) N.Y,. Islanders

5) New Jersey

6) Pittsburgh

7) Columbus

8 ) N.Y. Rangers

Edited August 5, 2019 by FD19372

[mojo1917]

I cannot seem to "buy in " on the Islanders.

I know they won a playoff round, I know they are well coached, I know they have some good young talent, and some prospects on the way that could be terrifying ( Oliver Wahlstrom ), and this is a big one, No more Garth Snow.

Why can't I force myself to think they will be a team to be reckoned with ?

I watched them last year and thought, BORING... they really were a one line team that was BORING. I know their record and blah blah blah. Responding to this thread I completely forgot about them.

Completely,  forgot them, in theory they should be a team for the Flyers to surpass, except I already thought the Flyers were better, 18/19 results proved othewise, but I still have that perception. 

So uh, yeah the Islanders could be tough too ?

I hate that the Devils could be good again, I just hate that, I hate that Wayne Simmonds will wear that sweater...god I hate them.

I mean that one guy, their other fan, that comes here is cool, but damn. Rejean has built a pretty good team on paper, that bald ****** will have them playing hard.  damn....

 

[Howie58]

I guess the optimism versus pessimism "theme" runs like a river through the thread.  On the optimistic side, I concur the Flyers' "human capital" may be the best we've seen in years.  On the down side, I wonder how long it will take to gel?  I agree with Elmatus regarding parity in the division.  What can't be denied is that we were under .500 in our division and were better off when we were outshot:

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PHI/2019_situational.html

 

That tells me AV has to get these folks focused on quality shots, and that Fletcher is correct to assert that a good offense (keeping possession in the attack zone) is the best defense in the New NHL.

 

Another unknown:  I think Hart will be fine.  Elliott, as many have posted, may be fine if used in fewer than 30 games.  But if either of these gentlemen has goes down, the quality of "Goalie 3" will be critical to our performance. I suspect Lyon is next in line but that may change. 

 

Bottom line--I will go with 3 or 4 in the Metro.  And sadly, I don't see a playoff win.  That doesn't mean we won't be better.  But I suspect that others will be as well, and I am not sure how pieces will fall together before Black Friday.

 

Let's go Flyers,

 

Howie

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

I just feel like the Flyers need to only worry about the Flyers, control what they can control and the rest will take care of it's self.

 

I look at the team on paper and I think they have a lot of very solid pieces in place to be able to win a good bit of games, enough to get back in the playoffs.

 

And I don't mean just in and swept away I think they have a chance to get into the 2nd round and beyond.

 

Especially if they get some good goaltending.

 

We saw glimpes of how good they can be now they have to just play smart stay out the box and come out the gates ready to win and not fall behind in the standings.

 

They need to just concentrate on being consistent.

 

We'll know by Thanksgiving if they are a different team and just the same ol sinking ship with new deck chairs...

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by OccamsRazor
games aren't going to win themselves!!!!

[RonJeremy]

I

5 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I cannot seem to "buy in " on the Islanders.

I know they won a playoff round, I know they are well coached, I know they have some good young talent, and some prospects on the way that could be terrifying ( Oliver Wahlstrom ), and this is a big one, No more Garth Snow.

Why can't I force myself to think they will be a team to be reckoned with ?

I watched them last year and thought, BORING... they really were a one line team that was BORING. I know their record and blah blah blah. Responding to this thread I completely forgot about them.

Completely,  forgot them, in theory they should be a team for the Flyers to surpass, except I already thought the Flyers were better, 18/19 results proved othewise, but I still have that perception. 

So uh, yeah the Islanders could be tough too ?

I hate that the Devils could be good again, I just hate that, I hate that Wayne Simmonds will wear that sweater...god I hate them.

I mean that one guy, their other fan, that comes here is cool, but damn. Rejean has built a pretty good team on paper, that bald ****** will have them playing hard.  damn....

 

I agree , i thought ,on paper we had a much better team than the Isles last year .We just had a crappy coach and poor goaltending until Hart came up, but then it was too late. I guarantee we beat out the Isles.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

I

I agree , i thought ,on paper we had a much better team than the Isles last year .We just had a crappy coach and poor goaltending until Hart came up, but then it was too late. I guarantee we beat out the Isles.

 

And a crippled coach.

 

And losing JVR to start the season didn't help.

 

Wudder unda tha bridge now....

[brelic]

9 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

We saw glimpes of how good they can be now they have to just play smart stay out the box and come out the gates ready to win and not fall behind in the standings.

 

This is one of the biggest factors that will tell us if this is a different team different coach, or same team different coach. 

 

Haven't been above .500 after 10 games in 8 years. Only above .500 after 20 games once in last 8 years.

 

That needs to change. Relying on late season surges is not a recipe for success.

 

Of course, the Blues might disagree.

 

[vis]

Really have no idea how the Metropolitan shakes out.  It may not have the best teams in the league, or even in the conference, but I think it will be the most competitive within the division from top to bottom.  I still think Washington is at the top of the division, but I see very little separating the rest of the teams.  Every team in the division will be a challenge to play.  Honestly, I can see the teams below the Caps finishing in any order.  Anyway, here are my thoughts:

 

1 -- Capitals - Still the team to beat.  Best roster in the division.  Can't see them losing this spot.

2 -- Penguins - Until the Penguins don't make it to the POs, I have to keep them as a top 3 team in the Metro.  That said, I do think almost any of the teams below can unseat them and can see them landing as far as 6th below.

3 -- Flyers - The Flyers' success will depend on Vigneault's ability to get the players to play his way and on Hart's ability to take on the load of a starter.  Yeah, Provorov needs to be better as do some other players.  But, I definitely think the roster is talented enough to be a PO team.  It's on Vigneault to get them to play up to their potential (and on the players to have the desire to do so).  I feel pretty confident that they will make the POs, but it will be a dogfight.

4 -- Hurricanes - Like most teams in the division, I'm not completely sold on this team and can see them returning to earth a little bit.  Thought they caught lightning in a bottle last year and definitely had the "underdog" thing going for them.  Still, defense is a strength and they have good talent up front as well.  But, I don't trust Mrazek and I don't know who they have as a backup.  Their style of play and strong defense may mask the weakness of their goaltending.

5 -- Devils - Questions in goal, but damn they had an excellent offseason.  This team can be very dangerous, especially if they can get capable goaltending.  Mackenzie Blackwood might be their Carter Hart.  Again, maybe their style of play and talented offense can make-up for the goaltending if it's not up to par.

6 -- Islanders - Not sold on the Islanders.  Trotz is a great defensive coach, but I wonder how much Lehner's departure will matter.  Also, they had an underdog mentality about them last year that may not be as prevalent this year.

7 -- Rangers - Lack of depth down the middle and on defense really hurts this team.  Panarin and Trouba are great additions, but I just don't think either lifts the rest of the team enough.  

8 -- Blue Jackets - Departures really hurt their chances.  Still, they might have an "us against them" mentality a la the Islanders last season and could surprise the same way the Isles did.  I do think Torts is nearly as good as Trotz and he can get a lot out of his teams.  They do have some talent, but probably not enough to be a PO team.  Will be interesting to see how this team responds.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by vis

[B21]

Flyers

Capitals

Canes

Devils

Islanders

Rangers

Blue Jackets

Penguins

 

(The Pens finish last...not the ninja.)

 

 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

12 minutes ago, B21 said:

Flyers

Capitals

Canes

Devils

Islanders

Rangers

Blue Jackets

Penguins

 

(The Pens finish last...not the ninja.)

 

 

 

I see what you did there...Mr. Reverse Psychology..  

[ruxpin]

26 minutes ago, B21 said:

Flyers

Capitals

Canes

Devils

Islanders

Rangers

Blue Jackets

Penguins

 

(The Pens finish last...not the ninja.)

 

 

A true hockey fan right there. Raise expectations for the enemy fans and manage your own teams expectations. 

 

Smart. Very smart. 

 

Not shocked.