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Where Do Flyers Rank in Metropolitan for '20?


Howie58

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I dont get it. No regrets? No regrets for what? Having a dismal powerplay (22nd)? Playing inconsistent? Not making the playoffs? For having the 3rd worst defense (goals against)? For having an 18th ranked offense (goals scored)? For having a PK lower than 70% in the first 3 months of the season?

 

Personally, I'd like to see some regret. I'd like to see some accountability.  Id like to see some players who elevate their game. Flyer players have been coddled for far too long.

 

Last years motto was "raising the bar". I think the players took that to mean spending more time improving the economic future of center city night clubs, sometimes before games.

 

In addition to other moves they've made, perhaps they should **** can the PR department that comes up with these things

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5 hours ago, CoachX said:

I dont get it. No regrets? No regrets for what? Having a dismal powerplay (22nd)? Playing inconsistent? Not making the playoffs? For having the 3rd worst defense (goals against)? For having an 18th ranked offense (goals scored)? For having a PK lower than 70% in the first 3 months of the season?

 

Personally, I'd like to see some regret. I'd like to see some accountability.  Id like to see some players who elevate their game. Flyer players have been coddled for far too long.

 

Last years motto was "raising the bar". I think the players took that to mean spending more time improving the economic future of center city night clubs, sometimes before games.

 

In addition to other moves they've made, perhaps they should **** can the PR department that comes up with these things

 

No regrets...

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On 8/28/2019 at 9:13 PM, ruxpin said:

I'm not even going to bother. Nothing there resembling reality and an Islanders fan's opinion on hockey is kind of like Stevie Wonder's opinion on a Claude Monet painting. 

Thats why we made the playoff,s and your team once again did not,isl had the best goaltending in the NHL and have the best coaching staff so know your hockey before you speak ok,thanks bro.

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1 hour ago, musky said:

Thats why we made the playoff,s and your team once again did not,isl had the best goaltending in the NHL and have the best coaching staff so know your hockey before you speak ok,thanks bro.

In the last 28 years the flyers have missed the playoffs 9 times. The islanders missed 18.

 

There are coloring books and crayons in the corner.... bro

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3 hours ago, CoachX said:

I regret buying Center Ice last season. 

 

Yeah it is why i am holding off this year maybe till mid season or i see a vast improvement...i too wasted money last year because there were many games i didn't bother to watch or even finish.

 

I hope i have a reason to buy it again this year....i really hate having only football to follow.

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3 hours ago, musky said:

Thats why we made the playoff,s and your team once again did not,isl had the best goaltending in the NHL and have the best coaching staff so know your hockey before you speak ok,thanks bro.

 

You made it in after missing the last two years and had the best goaltending supposedly, yet let him walk and replaced him with a guy who got beat out back a Capitals backup.

 

Smart move.

 

Very smart....but you beat a bad Penguin team and then got swept by the Canes....very nice run...bravo.

 

You guys won't make it in this year. Flyers will. Wait and see.

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Let me preface this by saying i don't play fantasy hockey and never have...just point out this is a good sign i think...

 

Top 100 Keeper League Goaltenders – August 2019

https://dobberhockey.com/hockey-home/hockey-rankings/top-100-keeper-league-goaltenders-august-2019/

 

Look at the goalies in terms of Tiers. A goalie in the same tier as another goalie, has the same value. Don't overreach to get a different goalie in the same tier. I define the tiers, roughly, as follows:

Tier 0 – Elite 40-win goalies who are on strong teams and are going to be great fantasy assets for three or more years yet.

Tier 1 – Top goalies with a clear-cut hold on the top job, with lower injury risk, and a very strong shot at 35+ wins. Track record also helps here.

Tier 2 – This is a mixed bag of risk and reward. It could mean a top goalie who is on a terrible team and thus get his win totals held down. It could mean a good goalie on a great team, but he's in a shared goalie situation with another guy. It could mean a top goalie on a good team, but he has a high risk of injury. Or he is an aging goalie with a stud prospect coming up behind him (Schneider a great example here)

Tier 3 – This is for goalies in a shared situation, therefore limited upside for wins. Or this is a backup on a great team with the top goalie being injury prone. Or this is a top prospect finally making the team as a backup and the wait on him taking the top job is maybe a year (or sooner if top guy gets hurt)

Tier 4 – This could either indicate a clearcut backup who could take the top job because the top goalie is injury-prone, or this is a top prospect in the minors with minimal wait time. This could also be a veteran backup who has fallen out of favor in terms of fantasy value, but still has a chance of turning it around (Cam Talbot) Or somewhere in between. 

Tier 5-7 – At this point it is varying levels of prospect talent and wait time. Higher talent and lower wait time pushes them into Tier 5, etc.

Go by Tiers – not by rankings.

 

I just copied and pasted the top 20.

 

Aug 20 Goalie Team Rating July 20 Tier
1 Andrei Vasilevskiy TBL 100.4 1 0
2 Frederik Andersen TOR 95.0 2 0
3 Sergei Bobrovsky FLA 76.6 3 1
4 Connor Hellebuyck WPG 76.3 4 1
5 Braden Holtby WAS 76.2 5 1
6 Carter Hart PHI 73.1 6 1
7 Tuukka Rask BOS 72.4 7 1
8 Devan Dubnyk MIN 69.9 8 2
9 Carey Price MON 68.4 9 2
10 Jacob Markstrom VAN 67.0 10 2
11 Jordan Binnington STL 66.5 11 2
12 Ben Bishop DAL 65.9 12 2
13 Marc-Andre Fleury VGK 65.5 13 2
14 John Gibson ANA 64.5 14 2
15 Matt Murray PIT 63.2 15 2
16 Martin Jones SJS 62.2 16 2
17 Philipp Grubauer COL 59.8 17 2
18 Robin Lehner CHI 59.8 18 2
19 Elvis Merzlikins CBJ 57.7 19 3
20 David Rittich CGY 54.3 20 2

 

I have to say i like to see a Flyer goalie ranked that high. Nice. Sure it means nothing about the season and guys need to earn their rank.

 

It is a nice change for a Flyer fan is all just an honor to be on the list with Bob, Hellebuyck, Rask and Holtby.

 

All the fantasy guys and gals feel free to weigh in on this.

 

If only @ruxpin would just once try fantasy hockey i know he would like it. :poke:

 

 

#bringonsomerealhockey

Edited by OccamsRazor
Fly Eagles Fly
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4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Let me preface this by saying i don't play fantasy hockey and never have...just point out this is a good sign i think...

 

Top 100 Keeper League Goaltenders – August 2019

https://dobberhockey.com/hockey-home/hockey-rankings/top-100-keeper-league-goaltenders-august-2019/

 

Look at the goalies in terms of Tiers. A goalie in the same tier as another goalie, has the same value. Don't overreach to get a different goalie in the same tier. I define the tiers, roughly, as follows:

Tier 0 – Elite 40-win goalies who are on strong teams and are going to be great fantasy assets for three or more years yet.

Tier 1 – Top goalies with a clear-cut hold on the top job, with lower injury risk, and a very strong shot at 35+ wins. Track record also helps here.

Tier 2 – This is a mixed bag of risk and reward. It could mean a top goalie who is on a terrible team and thus get his win totals held down. It could mean a good goalie on a great team, but he's in a shared goalie situation with another guy. It could mean a top goalie on a good team, but he has a high risk of injury. Or he is an aging goalie with a stud prospect coming up behind him (Schneider a great example here)

Tier 3 – This is for goalies in a shared situation, therefore limited upside for wins. Or this is a backup on a great team with the top goalie being injury prone. Or this is a top prospect finally making the team as a backup and the wait on him taking the top job is maybe a year (or sooner if top guy gets hurt)

Tier 4 – This could either indicate a clearcut backup who could take the top job because the top goalie is injury-prone, or this is a top prospect in the minors with minimal wait time. This could also be a veteran backup who has fallen out of favor in terms of fantasy value, but still has a chance of turning it around (Cam Talbot) Or somewhere in between. 

Tier 5-7 – At this point it is varying levels of prospect talent and wait time. Higher talent and lower wait time pushes them into Tier 5, etc.

Go by Tiers – not by rankings.

 

I just copied and pasted the top 20.

 

Aug 20 Goalie Team Rating July 20 Tier
1 Andrei Vasilevskiy TBL 100.4 1 0
2 Frederik Andersen TOR 95.0 2 0
3 Sergei Bobrovsky FLA 76.6 3 1
4 Connor Hellebuyck WPG 76.3 4 1
5 Braden Holtby WAS 76.2 5 1
6 Carter Hart PHI 73.1 6 1
7 Tuukka Rask BOS 72.4 7 1
8 Devan Dubnyk MIN 69.9 8 2
9 Carey Price MON 68.4 9 2
10 Jacob Markstrom VAN 67.0 10 2
11 Jordan Binnington STL 66.5 11 2
12 Ben Bishop DAL 65.9 12 2
13 Marc-Andre Fleury VGK 65.5 13 2
14 John Gibson ANA 64.5 14 2
15 Matt Murray PIT 63.2 15 2
16 Martin Jones SJS 62.2 16 2
17 Philipp Grubauer COL 59.8 17 2
18 Robin Lehner CHI 59.8 18 2
19 Elvis Merzlikins CBJ 57.7 19 3
20 David Rittich CGY 54.3 20 2

 

I have to say i like to see a Flyer goalie ranked that high. Nice. Sure it means nothing about the season and guys need to earn their rank.

 

It is a nice change for a Flyer fan is all just an honor to be on the list with Bob, Hellebuyck, Rask and Holtby.

 

All the fantasy guys and gals feel free to weigh in on this.

 

If only @ruxpin would just once try fantasy hockey i know he would like it:poke:

 

 

#bringonsomerealhockey

 

LOL!

 

I have Hart and Biddington returning to my team in our keeper league.   And yes, tier is definitely the way to go.   I question Price, Fleury, Jones and Rittich all being tier 2, though.  In neither real hockey nor fantasy would I trade Price for Rittich, for example.   Though if I already had a tier 1 goalie, I might trade Price for Rittich AND something (in fantasy).

 

Now that I'm writing, maybe I agree about all other three being tier 2, because all three are nice to have but I wouldn't want to have any of them be my main goalie in fantasy.

 

In both of the leagues I'm in--just to give you reference--these are the categories that the goalies can "score" points for you in:

W - L - Svs --SV% -- GAA-- ShO

 

Both of the leagues are head-to-head, meaning each week you square off against an opponent, and you get a point if your goalies have more wins in that week than him/her.  A point for less losses, and then a point each for having the most saves, the highest save %, the lowest GAA, and the most Shutouts (often a tie but really just added bonus if your goalie happens to get one).

 

So, a guy like Martin Jones can get you a bunch of points in W-L but balance out in the other categories.  That's why he's a two.  Price, on the other hand, (when he's on) can get you the peripherals but on Montreal can kind of balance out on the W-L.

 

Given the fantasy track record of the other "1's" on that list, it really is high praise not just for Hart but potentially what they think about the Flyers this year.   Because if they thought "good goalie,  meh team" he'd probably be a 2.

 

@yave1964, @pilldoc   thought you might find this interesting

Edited by ruxpin
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2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

LOL!

 

I have Hart and Biddington returning to my team in our keeper league.   And yes, tier is definitely the way to go.   I question Price, Fleury, Jones and Rittich all being tier 2, though.  In neither real hockey nor fantasy would I trade Price for Rittich, for example.   Though if I already had a tier 1 goalie, I might trade Price for Rittich AND something (in fantasy).

 

Now that I'm writing, maybe I agree about all other three being tier 2, because all three are nice to have but I wouldn't want to have any of them be my main goalie in fantasy.

 

In both of the leagues I'm in--just to give you reference--these are the categories that the goalies can "score" points for you in:

W - L - Svs --SV% -- GAA-- ShO

 

Both of the leagues are head-to-head, meaning each week you square off against an opponent, and you get a point if your goalies have more wins in that week than him/her.  A point for less losses, and then a point each for having the most saves, the highest save %, the lowest GAA, and the most Shutouts (often a tie but really just added bonus if your goalie happens to get one).

 

So, a guy like Martin Jones can get you a bunch of points in W-L but balance out in the other categories.  That's why he's a two.  Price, on the other hand, (when he's on) can get you the peripherals but on Montreal can kind of balance out on the W-L.

 

Given the fantasy track record of the other "1's" on that list, it really is high praise not just for Hart but potentially what they think about the Flyers this year.   Because if they thought "good goalies, meh team" he'd probably be a 2.

 

Thanks for the feed back. I hope Hart and the Flyers have a good year to justify the accolades.

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On 8/27/2019 at 6:46 AM, ruxpin said:

Where can we see the raw data on this and compare to other players. I don't see this on the chart on the link. 

 

I mean it sounds impressive, but I don't know enough about some of these slush stats to know what is considered good. 

 

I remember you asking about some of the data so i came across this...it's not much...

 

Exits/Entries- First 20 Games

# Player Games Played Entries Carry-Ins Carry% Dump-Ins/Passes Dump-Ins Recovered Possession% Exits Controlled Exits Uncontrolled Exits Controlled Exit%
2 James de Haas 7 19 4 21.05% 15 8 63.16% 39 8 31 20.51%
5 Philippe Myers 20 80 30 37.50% 50 17 58.75% 131 42 89 32.06%
6 Philip Samuelsson 19 46 8 17.39% 38 17 54.35% 126 14 112 11.11%
7 Zack Palmquist 20 36 6 16.67% 30 8 38.89% 100 9 91 9%
8 David Drake 1 1 0 0% 1 1 100% 4 1 3 25%
9 Cole Bardreau 19 66 28 42.42% 38 12 60.61% 58 27 31 46.55%
10 Greg Carey 20 67 32 47.76% 35 15 70.15% 60 23 37 38.33%
12 Tyrell Goulbourne 12 31 13 41.94% 18 9 70.97% 37 14 23 37.84%
13 Colin McDonald 18 75 30 40% 45 14 58.67% 52 23 29 44.23%
15 Mikhail Vorobyev 12 32 16 50% 16 6 68.75% 39 13 26 33.33%
16 Nicolas Aube-Kubel 12 61 36 59.02% 25 11 77.05% 60 34 26 56.67%
17 German Rubtsov 14 42 26 61.90% 16 4 71.43% 38 22 16 57.90%
19 Radel Fazleev 11 35 21 60% 14 3 68.57% 36 24 12 66.67%
21 Mike Vecchione 20 56 44 78.57% 12 5 87.50% 52 20 32 38.46%
22 Chris Conner 19 68 37 54.41% 31 9 67.65% 45 22 23 48.89%
23 Taylor Leier 16 75 42 56% 33 14 74.67% 39 19 20 48.72%
24 Carsen Twarynski 17 75 34 45.33% 41 16 66.67% 57 30 27 52.63%
25 Connor Bunnaman 12 34 15 44.11% 19 4 55.88% 18 8 10 44.44%
26 Phil Varone 20 91 52 57.14% 39 13 71.43% 62 33 29 53.23%
37 Mark Friedman 20 65 22 33.85% 43 16 58.46% 148 51 97 34.46%
38 David Kase 17 60 25 41.67% 35 15 66.67% 51 29 22 56.86%
43 T.J. Brennan 20 55 18 32.73% 37 13 56.36% 126 21 105 16.67%
44 Reece Wilcox 13 52 17 32.69% 35 13 57.69% 78 17 61 21.79%
x total   1222 556 45.50% 666 243 65.38% 1456 504 952 34.62%
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9 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I remember you asking about some of the data so i came across this...it's not much...

 

Exits/Entries- First 20 Games

# Player Games Played Entries Carry-Ins Carry% Dump-Ins/Passes Dump-Ins Recovered Possession% Exits Controlled Exits Uncontrolled Exits Controlled Exit%
2 James de Haas 7 19 4 21.05% 15 8 63.16% 39 8 31 20.51%
5 Philippe Myers 20 80 30 37.50% 50 17 58.75% 131 42 89 32.06%
6 Philip Samuelsson 19 46 8 17.39% 38 17 54.35% 126 14 112 11.11%
7 Zack Palmquist 20 36 6 16.67% 30 8 38.89% 100 9 91 9%
8 David Drake 1 1 0 0% 1 1 100% 4 1 3 25%
9 Cole Bardreau 19 66 28 42.42% 38 12 60.61% 58 27 31 46.55%
10 Greg Carey 20 67 32 47.76% 35 15 70.15% 60 23 37 38.33%
12 Tyrell Goulbourne 12 31 13 41.94% 18 9 70.97% 37 14 23 37.84%
13 Colin McDonald 18 75 30 40% 45 14 58.67% 52 23 29 44.23%
15 Mikhail Vorobyev 12 32 16 50% 16 6 68.75% 39 13 26 33.33%
16 Nicolas Aube-Kubel 12 61 36 59.02% 25 11 77.05% 60 34 26 56.67%
17 German Rubtsov 14 42 26 61.90% 16 4 71.43% 38 22 16 57.90%
19 Radel Fazleev 11 35 21 60% 14 3 68.57% 36 24 12 66.67%
21 Mike Vecchione 20 56 44 78.57% 12 5 87.50% 52 20 32 38.46%
22 Chris Conner 19 68 37 54.41% 31 9 67.65% 45 22 23 48.89%
23 Taylor Leier 16 75 42 56% 33 14 74.67% 39 19 20 48.72%
24 Carsen Twarynski 17 75 34 45.33% 41 16 66.67% 57 30 27 52.63%
25 Connor Bunnaman 12 34 15 44.11% 19 4 55.88% 18 8 10 44.44%
26 Phil Varone 20 91 52 57.14% 39 13 71.43% 62 33 29 53.23%
37 Mark Friedman 20 65 22 33.85% 43 16 58.46% 148 51 97 34.46%
38 David Kase 17 60 25 41.67% 35 15 66.67% 51 29 22 56.86%
43 T.J. Brennan 20 55 18 32.73% 37 13 56.36% 126 21 105 16.67%
44 Reece Wilcox 13 52 17 32.69% 35 13 57.69% 78 17 61 21.79%
x total   1222 556 45.50% 666 243 65.38% 1456 504 952 34.62%

 

Some of the numbers in that table make it remarkably clear how much harder the NHL is compared to lesser leagues. Well over 2/3rd of that list have better possession metrics than the very best NHLers. 

 

EDIT: Nevermind, I read the table wrong. :)

Edited by elmatus
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@ruxpin

 

My opinion of goalies fantast wise is COMPLETELY different than it is in reality. For instance, fantasy to me a Martn Jones or Braden Holtby deserve to be bumped up because of the teams they play for. Both are god solid goalies but a bit overrated because of the teams they play for, both play for teams that win a lot of games so therefor they do too. In reality I have them rated middle of the pack. Fantasy wise with all the wins I am comfortable with either at nor near the top of my goalie rotation but truth is both are seriously overrated. Kind of like Crawford in his prime cup winning years, or an Osgood. Average goalies whose stats are elevated by the team they play for.

 

 The opposite is Carey Price and Lundqvist who play for middling teams, reality they are amazing tenders but I dont go out of my way for either because their teams tend to underperform which drags their stat lines down. So reality, top ten for both most years but fantasy I consider both a good solid number two- nothing more. 

 

  And I guess another category is a Quick who is overrated because he gets by on his rep after a couple of cup runs but really doesn't do much. Crawford and Murray are in this grouping as well as a few others. All are unbelievable overrated both reality and fantasy wise and I dont want any of them in anything more than a number three fantasy goalie andfeel none of them will ever help a team in reality make the playoffs ever again. If the team they play on makes the postseason it is with them dragging their goalie behind them.

 

 And the other grouping is the one year wonders, Lehner and Binington fall here, I am always weary of these guys who come out of nowhere because too often that is where goalies like this return to almost as quickly as they appeared. If you take the fivesome  of Lehner/Binnington/Rittich/Koskinen/Kuemper I would bet that by the end of next season one, maybe two is still in ful possession of a job and yet at different times last year they were must adds fantasy wise. This coming year they will be replaced by guys like Peterson in LA, Raanta, Nedlocovic in Carolina when Mrazek implodes, and whoever wins the Columbus job. I dont trust a proven track record and I especially dont trust a PROVEN track record of mediocrity that is followed by an unexpected upturn. Just dont trust them, never have, never will. What goes up goes down usually sooner than later.

 

  Just my two cents.

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  • 2 weeks later...
5 hours ago, FD19372 said:

I don't either, especially if the Konecny contract "dispute" lingers, as well as the Patrick injury.

 

Yeah but what if AV gets the Old Ghost back...what's that worth??

 

AV: The beauty about being me right now is I wasn't here last year. I remember Shayne from my time in New York, him being a real tough defenseman to play against - good on the breakouts, jumping up on the play at the right time, being real effective on the play. That's my recollection. I don't know what happened last year, don't care. I thought today, he was intense, he had a real good pace to his practice. I am confident he's going to follow it up [Saturday].

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10 hours ago, Gee Bee said:

I would have liked to squeak the Flyers into the 3rd position, but I just don't feel it.

Yeah. 

I mean, I have them winning the division.  But I also think the distance between 1st and 4th will be small.  So, I probably see a couple of small things going right whereas you don't. And the difference is 1st to 4th.

 

And I think that's a very valid call. 

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9 hours ago, FD19372 said:

I don't either, especially if the Konecny contract "dispute" lingers, as well as the Patrick injury.

 

It certainly doesn’t help, but it might not be that bad. 

 

Hayes almost doubles the production we got from Patrick last year, and if Farabee starts in the top 6, surely he could maintain a 30-point pace at minimum. Laughts and Ruby as 3C/4C.

 

Obviously we want the whole team to be together, but I actually think it would be manageable.

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12 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

I think the Islanders are overrated,  on paper we have a better team. If our guys play to their ability,  we will beat our the Isles.

 

That's the thing with Barry Trotz teams.... they ALWAYS play more than the sum of their parts.
We've seen that when he was in Nashville, we saw that last year when everyone thought the Isles would struggle without John Tavares.

Say the Islanders 'play over their heads' and the ol 'on paper X team is better'....and you wouldn't be wrong...but the bottom line is, Trotz gets lots of mileage out of whatever he is handed, and as long as the team buys in, I see no reason why still can't continue to be a threat to finish top 3 in the division.

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2 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

That's the thing with Barry Trotz teams.... they ALWAYS play more than the sum of their parts.
We've seen that when he was in Nashville, we saw that last year when everyone thought the Isles would struggle without John Tavares.

Say the Islanders 'play over their heads' and the ol 'on paper X team is better'....and you wouldn't be wrong...but the bottom line is, Trotz gets lots of mileage out of whatever he is handed, and as long as the team buys in, I see no reason why still can't continue to be a threat to finish top 3 in the division.

Yes , but considering how much we have underachieved due to horrible coaching, goaltending and special teams over the past 5_6 years....Now we have the coaching and goaltending, all we need is solid special teams and we are going to be vastly improved. 

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