Is it End of the Line for Morin?

[King Knut]

On 8/20/2019 at 6:25 PM, ruxpin said:

This. That's all he needs to do. If he does this effectively, it's gold. 

 

And I agree. I think he's up to the task. 

 

The part of his game that really surprised me was zone exits.  he utilized his size presence to shut down a play and either carry or outlet very smart exits.  Not dramatic thrilling play making passes, but smart strong plays that lead to quality possessions. Given the talent he'd now be out-letting to, I'm excited by this.  

[King Knut]

On 8/19/2019 at 1:45 PM, ruxpin said:

For whatever it's worth, I don't disagree with your assessment of Morin's play last year. And I don't disagree with your saying he looked better than Hagg (and I actually like Hagg better than most despite the fact his numbers aren't all that great). 

 

We'll see how it shakes out.  I don't see them doing anything before mid-year, so I think what you describe will likely be the case out of the gate.  I don't think anyone takes a run at Morin before they're satisfied he's healthy and ready.   Don't know, I'm just not sure he fits long term, but I don't know what they're doing with others, so I don't think you're wrong.  Just that if I had to bet... 

 

I'm glad I don't. 

 

Keep in mind, they're almost definitely going to be losing either Ghost, Sanheim or Myers in the expansion draft... but even if that weren't the case, I absolutely see Morin fitting long term.  Him essentially losing two years is what made bringing in the likes of Braun make sense at all.  But Niskanen and Braun aren't going to be here in two years. There isn't a lot of room right now, but there almost certainly will be quite soon as they're potentially going from 8 Secured D-men to 5 overnight in two years.  

 

At that point, it could very a very good thing to have Morin around and ready to roll.  It's just a matter of what to do with him until then.

 

I'm not sure I would have bothered with Braun, but if I were foisted into this situation as GM, I guess I'd likely do a lot of platooning game to game, to get a better idea of where I was at with my D-men and ultimately try to hang on to Hagg and Morin.  It's bet hedging to have gotten Niskanen and Braun and right now it's blocking younger guys and making it slightly more difficult to keep those younger guys around until you absolutely need them in two years.

 

 

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Keep in mind, they're almost definitely going to be losing either Ghost, Sanheim or Myers in the expansion draft... but even if that weren't the case, I absolutely see Morin fitting long term.  Him essentially losing two years is what made bringing in the likes of Braun make sense at all.  But Niskanen and Braun aren't going to be here in two years. There isn't a lot of room right now, but there almost certainly will be quite soon as they're potentially going from 8 Secured D-men to 5 overnight in two years.  

 

At that point, it could very a very good thing to have Morin around and ready to roll.  It's just a matter of what to do with him until then.

 

I'm not sure I would have bothered with Braun, but if I were foisted into this situation as GM, I guess I'd likely do a lot of platooning game to game, to get a better idea of where I was at with my D-men and ultimately try to hang on to Hagg and Morin.  It's bet hedging to have gotten Niskanen and Braun and right now it's blocking younger guys and making it slightly more difficult to keep those younger guys around until you absolutely need them in two years.

 

 

This. 

 

Yeah, I'm really not advocating getting rid of Morin. Just that he will likely have limited role because of the vets and because by the time the vets leave he will have people behind him ready and younger. 

 

It's an unfortunate situation for him to be in and the expansion draft only complicates matters (not specifically for him, but just adds another variable). 

 

Kind of on that subject, do you know anything about York?  He wasn't someone I paid a lot of attention to pre-draft.  But how many years out do you figure? As a first round pick, you have to figure the Flyers make every effort to get him to the NHL. The variable is the time frame.  You figure after three years (including this upcoming season)?   Or longer? 

 

 

[jammer2]

Not saying dump Morin right now...BUT if he looks like he might not be in the future plans after an extended long training camp look....how about Morin for Josh Ho-Sang straight up? Both players have warts.. but the talent is there with Josh..if he gets his head on straight...which happens when your back is to the wall in what could be his last chance to secure a regular roster spot. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by jammer2

[King Knut]

21 hours ago, ruxpin said:

This. 

 

Yeah, I'm really not advocating getting rid of Morin. Just that he will likely have limited role because of the vets and because by the time the vets leave he will have people behind him ready and younger. 

 

It's an unfortunate situation for him to be in and the expansion draft only complicates matters (not specifically for him, but just adds another variable). 

 

Kind of on that subject, do you know anything about York?  He wasn't someone I paid a lot of attention to pre-draft.  But how many years out do you figure? As a first round pick, you have to figure the Flyers make every effort to get him to the NHL. The variable is the time frame.  You figure after three years (including this upcoming season)?   Or longer? 

 

York sounds like a prototypical Flyers pick of recent years... like the kind of guy that either dropped off people's radar or was never really on it for some reason and drifted down to whatever number the Flyers were picking at.  Some people were upset that Fletcher passed on Caulfield and assume it was over size, but looking at the system, I feel like it had a lot more to do with wanting to replenish the D talent coming up to the Phantoms in the next couple of years.  

 

 

He's supposed to start at the University right about now, right?  So he can essentially join the Phantoms whenever, but  I'd assume he stays in college at least this year, then thinks about signing the way Farabee did.  

 

Are more young guys going to college over juniors so they can play in the AHL at 19?  Or is it just that more Americans are getting drafted and Americans tend to play in college more than go to Juniors?  Anyway that's a complete side note.

 

Either way, unless Fletcher makes some moves, York seems to have a good two years to grow and develop his game before I think the team will have a slot for him in Philly.  That said, he could end up in LhV next season and that wouldn't be bad at all for him or the team.

 

That said, if he comes along and looks like he could play NHL hockey at 20, there does seem to be the potential for roster space and the general lack of cap space playing a rookie can help with starting in the 2021-2022 season.   The current situation with 8 Pro level D men and a couple of decent call up options in LhV certainly make it seem like he won't need to be rushing anything this year or next, but as we've said elsewhere, they will likely go from 8 pro D men to 5 over the course of the next two seasons.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LegionOfDoom]

I understand the need for Fletcher to get two veteran Dmen to start out this year. Too much youth on D and the way the team D was being played and allowing so many shots/goals against, starting the year with Morin and Myers/Haag/Sanheim was just too young as a team to run with from an upper management point of view to roll the dice this year. I am fully unhappily on board, but unhappy in how we got here. but if we are going to turn this around, we have to start with Known Good Pieces, not necessarily high Good, but "Good on Paper", Good players in the sense of running a defensive team system with pieces that are experienced enough to be able to go out there and do the job. Braun and Niskanen have resume to do just that and show the young guns how it's done night in, night out.

I just hope Morin gets time in on the rotation. 

[flyercanuck]

On 8/22/2019 at 1:29 PM, jammer2 said:

Not saying dump Morin right now...BUT if he looks like he might not be in the future plans after an extended long training camp look....how about Morin for Josh Ho-Sang straight up? Both players have warts.. but the talent is there with Josh..if he gets his head on straight...which happens when your back is to the wall in what could be his last chance to secure a regular roster spot. 

 

23 years old, always had NHL talent...always everyone elses fault

 

No thanks. He'd be a horrible influence on the yutes.

[flyercanuck]

On 8/23/2019 at 11:26 AM, King Knut said:

 

York sounds like a prototypical Flyers pick of recent years... like the kind of guy that either dropped off people's radar or was never really on it for some reason and drifted down to whatever number the Flyers were picking at.  Some people were upset that Fletcher passed on Caulfield and assume it was over size, but looking at the system, I feel like it had a lot more to do with wanting to replenish the D talent coming up to the Phantoms in the next couple of years.  

 

 

 York was a slight reach...he was generally listed to go shortly after the Flyers pick. If Fletcher drafted anyone  with a 1st to fill out a roster spot on the farm team he's an idiot. I'm hoping the Flyers scouts considered him BPA. It was hard to see that over Caufied/Krebs.

 

On 8/23/2019 at 11:26 AM, King Knut said:

 

 

He's supposed to start at the University right about now, right?  So he can essentially join the Phantoms whenever, but  I'd assume he stays in college at least this year, then thinks about signing the way Farabee did.  

 

Are more young guys going to college over juniors so they can play in the AHL at 19?  Or is it just that more Americans are getting drafted and Americans tend to play in college more than go to Juniors?  Anyway that's a complete side note.

 

 What scares me is are more trying to be free agents. Cause that's the route many are going. I don't think York does that. But we may well lose Allison and Lacyzinski. 

 

On 8/23/2019 at 11:26 AM, King Knut said:

 

Either way, unless Fletcher makes some moves, York seems to have a good two years to grow and develop his game before I think the team will have a slot for him in Philly.  That said, he could end up in LhV next season and that wouldn't be bad at all for him or the team.

 

 Hopefully.

 

On 8/23/2019 at 11:26 AM, King Knut said:

 

That said, if he comes along and looks like he could play NHL hockey at 20, there does seem to be the potential for roster space and the general lack of cap space playing a rookie can help with starting in the 2021-2022 season.   The current situation with 8 Pro level D men and a couple of decent call up options in LhV certainly make it seem like he won't need to be rushing anything this year or next, but as we've said elsewhere, they will likely go from 8 pro D men to 5 over the course of the next two seasons.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Ya, there will be room when he's ready.

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

York was a slight reach...he was generally listed to go shortly after the Flyers pick. If Fletcher drafted anyone  with a 1st to fill out a roster spot on the farm team he's an idiot. I'm hoping the Flyers scouts considered him BPA. It was hard to see that over Caufied/Krebs.

 

 

 What scares me is are more trying to be free agents. Cause that's the route many are going. I don't think York does that. But we may well lose Allison and Lacyzinski. 

 

 

 Hopefully.

 

 

 

 Ya, there will be room when he's ready.

 

I think it was that they thought he was the best Defenseman available.  

 

Maybe they had evaluated Caulfield and Krebs at or above York but not higher  enough to  outweigh their need for a D man?

 

i was surprised they passed on Caulfield and i know many were ticked, the assumption being it was about his size, but Krebs is certainly average in size, so it suggests to me they really wanted a D man, anticipating all their top D prospects from recent years finally making the NHL, not to refill the AHL coffers, but to have a prospect to pull from in two years after the Vegas Draft and a few UFA contracts expire. 

 

The other thing about Caulfield or Krebs is the Allisons and Laczinskys of it all.

 

they still have a lot of fwd prospects to ty out.  There’s already no room. Looking at the roster and contracts signed, the best hope any of those guys (+ Strohm, Radcliffe and O’Brien others I’m too tired to remember) have—they already have fallen behind Frost and Farabee On the depth chart apparently—is trade or that Seattle will take a Fwd (they won’t) or a compliance buyout. 

 

The roster is is pretty much set for the next three years with a teensy but of room for on the third line. And possibly some “show me” injury fill in time.  

 

It it would suck for those college guys to produce elsewhere but I’m sure they’ll get a fair look in camp.  Personally I’d love to see Frost get a full year in the AHL at center and have Allison get a crack at the 3RW, but he’s coming off a bad injury and and heading back to college for his senior year.  So maybe there’s a good chance for next year. 

 

 

 

 

[brelic]

33 minutes ago, King Knut said:

so it suggests to me they really wanted a D man

 

Yes, both Fletch and Flahr mentioned getting a D man as their first pick several times leading up to the draft, so it really wasn't much of a surprise. 

 

Let's say it takes York 3 years to make it to the NHL - when he's 21. 

 

Ghost will be 29, Provorov 25, Sanheim 26, Myers 25. That's a nice mature group for him to slot in with.

 

I think Zamula (who will be 22) might round out that group.

[AJgoal]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 What scares me is are more trying to be free agents. Cause that's the route many are going. I don't think York does that. But we may well lose Allison and Lacyzinski. 

 

I don't know about Lacyzinski, but Allison said this summer that the only reason he hasn't signed is that his knee is still wonky. He doesn't want to start out his pro career injured and playing catch up - he'd rather get himself right and be close to 100 percent when he signs. While the injury is itself a cause for concern, he still seems intent on signing with the Flyers.

[LegionOfDoom]

Unfortunately Allison's recovery wasn't as smooth as the others who had that procedure done to them. One thing though if he had signed, he could of had the Flyers Training staff and doctors work on his recovery and/or secondary surgery to make sure he is well taken care of. Since he's not signed, he has to go about it without the Flyers getting officially involved.

[AJgoal]

5 minutes ago, LegionOfDoom said:

Unfortunately Allison's recovery wasn't as smooth as the others who had that procedure done to them. One thing though if he had signed, he could of had the Flyers Training staff and doctors work on his recovery and/or secondary surgery to make sure he is well taken care of. Since he's not signed, he has to go about it without the Flyers getting officially involved.

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Podein25]

31 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

MCCROSSIN!

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, LegionOfDoom said:

Unfortunately Allison's recovery wasn't as smooth as the others who had that procedure done to them. One thing though if he had signed, he could of had the Flyers Training staff and doctors work on his recovery and/or secondary surgery to make sure he is well taken care of. Since he's not signed, he has to go about it without the Flyers getting officially involved.

 

I can't find the video but I will try when i get home but he said he wanted to come back to play for a title and thought they will have a very good team so that too was why he wanted to come back.

 

I have to say i am ok with that the kid wants to win at that level good for him i want someone who wants to win. 

 

So i wish him luck.

 

I said it on the Phantoms thread and i will say it again here i think he wins the Hobey Baker this coming season. He was on pace for 55 points last year before he got hurt. 30 points in 22 games.

 

I think he can do it....if/when I find the interview with him I'll post it.

[ruxpin]

7 hours ago, LegionOfDoom said:

Unfortunately Allison's recovery wasn't as smooth as the others who had that procedure done to them. One thing though if he had signed, he could of had the Flyers Training staff and doctors work on his recovery and/or secondary surgery to make sure he is well taken care of. Since he's not signed, he has to go about it without the Flyers getting officially involved.

Yeah, and the Flyers medical staff has a great track record. 

[flyercanuck]

15 hours ago, LegionOfDoom said:

Unfortunately Allison's recovery wasn't as smooth as the others who had that procedure done to them. One thing though if he had signed, he could of had the Flyers Training staff and doctors work on his recovery and/or secondary surgery to make sure he is well taken care of. Since he's not signed, he has to go about it without the Flyers getting officially involved.

 

 

 

[JR Ewing]

On 8/29/2019 at 2:21 AM, flyercanuck said:

 

23 years old, always had NHL talent...always everyone elses fault

 

No thanks. He'd be a horrible influence on the yutes.

 

It would be a hard pass for me as well. He has ability, but has never established himself as a scorer despite being given repeated chances. The track record on offensive players all of a sudden blooming at his age isn't good.

 

[jammer2]

On 8/29/2019 at 5:21 AM, flyercanuck said:

 

23 years old, always had NHL talent...always everyone elses fault

 

No thanks. He'd be a horrible influence on the yutes.

Was just tossing stuff at the wall..

Both players have warts. Attitude can be adjusted, especially when your career is on the line. Having injury problems is not in Morins control and may dictate his career path going forward. Rather have a guy with offensive upside than nothing for a 2015 1st rounder...or a 5th round etc. I'd throw Josh on the Phantoms and see how he does...

[OccamsRazor]

48 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

Having injury problems is not in Morins control

 

That can be said about every player in every league.

 

A torn ACL no amount of training or being in shape can prevent that.

 

Hard to hold that against him (Not saying you ate just pointing it out).

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, jammer2 said:

Was just tossing stuff at the wall..

Both players have warts. Attitude can be adjusted, especially when your career is on the line. Having injury problems is not in Morins control and may dictate his career path going forward. Rather have a guy with offensive upside than nothing for a 2015 1st rounder...or a 5th round etc. I'd throw Josh on the Phantoms and see how he does...

 

 Oh if Hosang had his head on straight the Isles wouldn't even consider trading him for Morin. The guy has an incredible gift of talent. He just doesn't want to listen to anyone cause he knows better. Which is exactly why I don't want him anywhere near a team that has so many young players and up and coming prospects.

 

 And neither would you if he hadn't worn the Spits jersey before wearing out his welcome there.