Philadelphia Flyers 2019-20 camp/pre season

[intheslot]

Joel Farabee did everything but score.

He showed everything else during training camp and the preseason to prove he could make the Flyers better in 2019-20.

And that wasn't good enough to crack the team's roster ... for now.

The Flyers had to submit their roster Tuesday by 5 p.m. ET. They did so without Farabee and Philippe Myers on it. The team's regular season opener is Friday in Prague, Czech Republic.

Just six days ago, after Farabee stood out in a preseason game at Madison Square Garden, head coach Alain Vigneault said this about the prospect:

If he's not in the lineup that first game, it would be a surprise.

Maybe Vigneault surprised himself.

A few important things to remember:

• A week ago, general manager Chuck Fletcher stressed how the Flyers' submitted roster would be far from sacrosanct.

"We could even carry 20 or 21, we'll just have to see how the cap situation and how the math works out," he said. "I anticipate an awful lot of roster changes the first six weeks of the year. 

"There's not going to be any final roster, final cuts. There's going to an ebb and flow of players between Philadelphia and Lehigh Valley for the early part of the season, depending on who we're playing, the health of our team, whether we need right shots or left shots, or wingers or centeremen."

The Flyers' roster is at 20 players — 11 forwards, seven defensemen and two goalies. Three players on injured reserve. Would the team start the season playing down a forward with an extra defenseman? Highly unlikely.

• These initial transactions could be cap-related moves. According to CapFriendly.com, the Flyers have $283,811 in cap space. Tyler Pitlick is nearing a return and could be ready to go for the opener despite missing all of the preseason and most of training camp. He's with the Flyers in Europe, already counts against the cap and would make sense for the bottom six as the 12th forward.

Farabee could be back if the Flyers decide to move one of their injured players to long-term injured reserve and recall the 19-year-old winger. Will that happen? It's hard to say as Nolan Patrick (migraine disorder) and Andy Welinski (lower body) are considered week to week.

If Farabee stays down, he won't be down for long. He looks like an NHL player right now and there's no doubt he makes this team better.

• The Flyers are still "bullish" on Myers' upside. The 22-year-old defenseman had a so-so camp and preseason. A key in this scenario is that Myers is still waivers exempt. If the Flyers tried to send Samuel Morin to AHL affiliate Lehigh Valley, he would have to first clear waivers.

Robert Hagg is the steady, reliable option right now, Morin is the extra and Myers needs to play. He will do so in big minutes with the Phantoms.

Forwards

Connor Bunnaman
Sean Couturier
Claude Giroux
Kevin Hayes
Travis Konecny
Scott Laughton
Oskar Lindblom
Michael Raffl
Carsen Twarynski
James van Riemsdyk
Jakub Voracek

Defense

Justin Braun
Shayne Gostisbehere
Robert Hagg
Samuel Morin
Matt Niskanen
Ivan Provorov
Travis Sanheim

Goalies

Brian Elliott
Carter Hart

Injured non-roster

Nolan Patrick
Tyler Pitlick
Andy Welinski

Jordan Hall.reporter.

[OccamsRazor]

I would just put Patrick on IR and keep Myers in the lineup. Unless Patrick is close.

 

If not he would miss at least 10 games. So without doing that he must be close.

 

I would have still went with Farabee instead of Twarynski.

 

Sure Farabee didn't score any goals in the preseason but i don't remember Lindblom scoring any either but i would still include him in the lineup.

 

Even if i had to roll with 11 forwards Farabee would be in the lineup.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by OccamsRazor

[elmatus]

12 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Right.  All this is with the condition, "if they remain the same as last year" in terms of results.  Then, IMO, there's an issue that isn't limited to coaching.  At that point, everything--I mean everything--has been changed except the core.

 

I mostly agree, but I think this team needs more than just being a little better than last year.

 

Honestly, everyone and their dog had pegged last year's Flyers as a team to watch as a dark horse prior to the start of the season. There were plenty of reasons to believe they were on the upswing and going to have a year where they at least made the playoffs and quite possibly made some noise once there. That did not happen. Instead we got pretty much more of the same as we've endured now for quite some time.

 

When it comes to the core of this team, I think the Flyers fandom is at a point where we should expect more than just some improvement from this year. They need to make the playoffs as a bare minimum, but that's just not enough for me. I'm not saying it's cup or bust or anything like that, but I do expect them to have a legit chance to win at least one round in the playoffs.

 

If they do happen to lose in the 1st round, it better be because of situations outside of their control (e.g. injuries, their vs playing out of their minds good, something like that). If they falter in the first because they played as uninspired as they have been over the last while, that will be a very clear indication to me that the team's problem runs a lot deeper than just coaching or goaltending.

 

Bottom line, this is a team that either underperformed when they could have been better last year, or what we saw on the ice is just what they've got, and we're the ones who have overvalued the roster. If the second condition proves to be the right one, just tweaking the roster like what we saw this off season (with the exception of the coaches), shouldn't be an option.

 

Many of us have been very patient with this whole soft rebuild crap. At some point, every plan must be judged on whether it has succeeded or failed, and this particular experiment has been going on for long enough.

Edited October 2, 2019 by elmatus

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I mostly agree, but I think this team needs more than just being a little better than last year.

 

Yes.  

[SCFlyguy]

13 hours ago, brelic said:

 

That $1M retention on Gudas suuuuure don't look so good right now. 

 

And they've screwed themselves defensively because they don't want to give up Morin or Hagg for nothing by waiving them.... so it makes sense that Myers gets the cut. In all honestly, I think he played himself out of a spot at least to start.

 

What a mess that simply didn't need to be a mess.

 

 

Fletcher is a stone cold idiot.  Anyone nostalgic for the days of our cap situation causing us to dress ECHL defensemen because of an injury will love this guy.

[Digityman]

20 hours ago, radoran said:

The team has three guys with NHL head coaching experience behind the bench. We're going to find out how much of the struggles were "coaching" and how much was "talent/effort." I lean towards "coaching" but was also not happy with the effort of those "definitely a playoff" "garbage" teams...

 

This is a very good point.  

That is all-

[OccamsRazor]

Here is the second episode.

 

 

The more and more I see AV he sounds exactly what this group/core/team needs.

 

A swift kick in the arse and is going to hold them to his standard...

 

...I just love his answer.."They don't have a choice..." response..I feel he is going to whip these guys into what he wants or get them the **** out of here for ones who will...

[Podein25]

Trust. The. Process

[radoran]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

The more and more I see AV he sounds exactly what this group/core/team needs.

 

A swift kick in the arse and is going to hold them to his standard...

 

He honestly never struck me that way before, but it's been something of a breath of fresh air. It's more my unfamiliarity with AV than "he was never like this before."

 

He's got 11 rounds of playoffs in the past seven years and two Cup Finalists as a head coach on his resume.

 

They don't have a choice.

[Podein25]

"Real good in the room" 

[OccamsRazor]

I sure hope Sandstrom gets off to a good start in the AHL this year I think they will need him by December due to Elliott's uninspiring play in the preseason.

 

He had a 873% in his first 3 appearances allowing 7 goals.

 

That isn't going to cut it. Ask AV.

 

 

"You can't win with goaltending like that," Vigneault.

 

So not sure how long a leash he will have.

 

[radoran]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I think they will need him by December due to Elliott's uninspiring play in the preseason over the course of his career.

 

FIFY.

 

[AJgoal]

 

[OccamsRazor]

16 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

 

Hhhhmmmm ok Hayes on the top line?

 

Coots on the 2nd?

 

JVR on the 3rd?

 

Hagg with Ghost?

 

WTF?

 

Ok I guess who am I to question AV?

 

They don't have a choice.

 

[AJgoal]

Obviously, things can change between now and tomorrow, but that looks like a mess to me.

[ruxpin]

14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Hagg with Ghost?

 

Forget the horror show of the pairing for a moment.

His list of pairings can't be in order, can they?  How do you have Hagg and Ghost on the ice together, much less have them as a higher pairing than Sanheim/Niskanen?

[brelic]

1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

Obviously, things can change between now and tomorrow, but that looks like a mess to me.

 

Well, the other pairings didn't work in the preseason, so why not?  I know, "preseason" is "preseason", but 1-3-3 with slow starts in almost all of them doesn't inspire confidence.

 

 

[brelic]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Hhhhmmmm ok Hayes on the top line?

 

Coots on the 2nd?

 

JVR on the 3rd?

 

Hagg with Ghost?

 

WTF?

 

Ok I guess who am I to question AV?

 

They don't have a choice.

 

 

Honestly, the thing that bothers me the most about the lineup is that I don't see a Giroux replacement in the near future. We just don't have one in the organization. Frost *might* turn out to be that guy - way too early to tell. 

 

I don't think Patrick will ever be that. If he can come back healthy and get his condition under control, he can probably become a very solid 1/2C but I don't see him putting up Giroux numbers. His ceiling is probably a Couturier type, which is great, and something we need long term - a defensively responsible 70+ point 2-way center.

 

Other than those two, I just don't see high level game breaking talent in our organization. It's definitely a problem for another day, but a problem nonetheless. 

 

[OccamsRazor]

20 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Honestly, the thing that bothers me the most about the lineup is that I don't see a Giroux replacement in the near future. We just don't have one in the organization. Frost *might* turn out to be that guy - way too early to tell. 

 

I don't think Patrick will ever be that. If he can come back healthy and get his condition under control, he can probably become a very solid 1/2C but I don't see him putting up Giroux numbers. His ceiling is probably a Couturier type, which is great, and something we need long term - a defensively responsible 70+ point 2-way center.

 

Other than those two, I just don't see high level game breaking talent in our organization. It's definitely a problem for another day, but a problem nonetheless. 

 

 

I think Farabee has a chance.

 

Maybe in the future than can move a defenseman and even a goalie for one.

 

It's one of the reasons you want depth in the organization...so worse case you can move a guy to address a hole.

 

At this point right now I am only worried about the immediate future.

 

2019-20. And the getting to the playoffs.

 

I'm not going to concern myself to much with anything more.

 

No sense in. But I understand your concern.

 

And I hope they have an answer.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Forget the horror show of the pairing for a moment.

His list of pairings can't be in order, can they?  How do you have Hagg and Ghost on the ice together, much less have them as a higher pairing than Sanheim/Niskanen?

 

Not sure maybe hopefully just last minute experiments...I would venture to guess in continues into the game...and maybe further until AV firmly has an idea of what he is working with.

[brelic]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I think Farabee has a chance.

 

Maybe in the future than can move a defenseman and even a goalie for one.

 

It's one of the reasons you want depth in the organization...so worse case you can move a guy to address a hole.

 

At this point right now I am only worried about the immediate future.

 

2019-20. And the getting to the playoffs.

 

I'm not going to concern myself to much with anything more.

 

No sense in. But I understand your concern.

 

And I hope they have an answer.

 

Totally - like I said, it's a problem for another day. 

 

But when I see teams like NJ get Hischier and Hughes, NYR getting Kakko, it makes me wonder if Hextall's approach was not the best. He drafted great while trying to remain competitive (which unequivocally did not work out) so we were not in a position to grab some top 3 draft picks. Patrick is the exception, though I'm not sure I see game-breaking talent from him. Again, maybe he follows Coots' path and takes 5-6 years to full mature and round out his game. 

 

 

[mojo1917]

11 minutes ago, brelic said:

But when I see teams like NJ get Hischier and Hughes, NYR getting Kakko, it makes me wonder if Hextall's approach was not the best.

Think about the LA team he worked for, where was the 'game breaking talent"?

I guess you could argue, Kopitar, don't tell me Dustin Brown, Jeff Carter , Mike Richards.  Tyler Tifoli come on man ? 

Their strength was the defense where they had a top 3 D in the league player Doughty and a bunch of really good guys in slots 2 through 6 and top of his game Jonathan Quick.

The Patriots are the best team in the NFL, tell me one guy on that team not named Tom Brady ?

If the whole roster is quality and smart does a team need "game breaking talent" ?

After Martin Broedeur and Scott Stevens the best player on then NJ championship teams was whom ?

Bill Guerin, Patrick Elias, Scott ****** Gomez ?  

I think GBT is a luxury not a necessity.

[brelic]

7 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Think about the LA team he worked for, where was the 'game breaking talent"?

I guess you could argue, Kopitar, don't tell me Dustin Brown, Jeff Carter , Mike Richards.  Tyler Tifoli come on man ? 

Their strength was the defense where they had a top 3 D in the league player Doughty and a bunch of really good guys in slots 2 through 6 and top of his game Jonathan Quick.

The Patriots are the best team in the NFL, tell me one guy on that team not named Tom Brady ?

If the whole roster is quality and smart does a team need "game breaking talent" ?

After Martin Broedeur and Scott Stevens the best player on then NJ championship teams was whom ?

Bill Guerin, Patrick Elias, Scott ****** Gomez ?  

I think GBT is a luxury not a necessity.

 

Good points - though I would argue that LA is the exception over the past decade, and NJ is part of the trap era. So while it's definitely possible to win without GBT, it seems to be the exception.

 

Hart could be the game breaking talent in the way that Rask was/is. Giroux is that now. Couturier is in the same mold as a Bergeron. But other than Hart, we don't have a youngster in the system that fits the bill - at least not yet. 

 

Of course, we just need someone or two someones to get hot at the right time. Is Ville Leino a GBT? Not in this universe... but during that one playoff run we had, he sure played like it. He was beyond impressive. 

 

I guess what I'm really saying is not that we don't have current and upcoming elite talent. We do. But remove Giroux from the equation, and oof. Those are big skates to fill. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CoachX]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Forget the horror show of the pairing for a moment.

His list of pairings can't be in order, can they?  How do you have Hagg and Ghost on the ice together, much less have them as a higher pairing than Sanheim/Niskanen?

So I'm a coach unhappy with the on ice performance.  Maybe i see guys getting to comfortable playing where they want, and not doing what I ask.

 

Ok, lets see how they like when I jack things all up.

 

Maybe a nessage is being sent

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, CoachX said:

So I'm a coach unhappy with the on ice performance.  Maybe i see guys getting to comfortable playing where they want, and not doing what I ask.

 

Ok, lets see how they like when I jack things all up.

 

Maybe a nessage is being sent

Not just possible, but quite likely. 

 

Have you seen a lot of preseason?  I haven't. Just wondering if anyone who's seen would be able to say whether they think Sanheim or Niska need a message (though I know some of these sins happen at practice and we wouldn't know). 

 

It's also possible, i suppose, that someone like Hagg is being shopped. 

 

I don't know. I just don't know that I handicap the team on open night with that second pairing just to send a message.