Philadelphia Flyers 2019-20 camp/pre season

[brelic]

20 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Ruby is impressing at 4C from what I can tell, but Twarinski is also turning heads and could snatch that spot from NAK.  

 

I get the feeling Farabee is really impressing as well right now,

 

I could see:

G/Coots/TK

JVR/Hayes/Voracek

Lindblom/Laughton/Farabee

Raffl/Rubtsov/Twarinski

Vyrobyov

 

Patrick  to LHV for conditioning stint (he may not like it, but he is Waiver Exempt still and it's not a good idea to throw him into the season right off without any camp time).

Pitlick Will likely go to LHV for a "conditioning Stint" but that will need to be more limited as he's not Wavier Exempt.

 

When Patty gets good, Laughton Likely drop to 4C and Ruby back to LHV.

As you say, if they move Hagg, they can Carry Ruby and Pitlick, but Ruby's young enough that getting him minutes is valuable and still waiver Exempt himself.  

 

I think Misha gets the bench spot for now because NAK isn't waiver Elligible.  If NAK wins the 3RW or 4RW spot, he'll have it all year.  Maybe he's ready for that and they think so too, or maybe they go with the guys they want to see try it out and don't have to commit to first.

 

I wouldn't move Hagg now however unless Fletcher gets a really good offer, which would almost have to be high picks at this point considering how deep and competitive the roster is right now.  

 

I could be wrong and may just be projecting my own thoughts on it.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, the roster is a mess right now because of the injuries - and we can add Frost to the list. Does that effectively take him out of the running for 3C? He should probably spend some time in LHV anyway where he can be on the top line, PP1, out on the ice late in games, etc.

 

My guess is Patrick won't go to Europe since they're leaving a few days after the 'mid-week' update - who knows if he joins the team on the western swing. So in that scenario, it makes more sense to carry 14 forwards and 7 defensemen. I figured they'd carry 8 D (as Fletch has mentioned/hinted) so they can basically decide which of Hagg and Morin to keep, and it gives them time to work out a deal since neither are waiver exempt. 

 

But now... seems like they might want some extra insurance up front on these long trips. So what to do with Hagg/Morin?

 

What a weird camp so far. They came right out and said what was wrong with Frost and gave a timetable, same with Pitlick, Gabriel. Patrick might have ebola for all we know, although that would be a TBI (total body injury).

 

I would think Hagg can fetch a 2nd, which is more value than Morin could fetch. Based on AV's words so far and Morin's usage and slotting, it seems like he might not be in the plans. 

 

Basically because of Europe, roster decisions will be made by the end of the week. Should be interesting!

 

 

[AJgoal]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

@AJgoal

 

I didn't think he looked like an NHL player yet.

I did see a lot of skill with the puck and some really great awareness of the play. As his body develops,  what I saw from him will make him a really dynamic player.  I worried about him in the corners and thought he needed to be stronger on the puck; also, I didn't see breathtaking speed or quickness and I was expecting that. 

 

I think he'll benefit from playing in the A for sure, I think once his body matures, he'll be a hell of a nice player, he's got a lot of skill and smarts.

 

I think that he'd be fine to learn in the NHL if a team was willing to run a 12 minute, skilled 4th line. He'd also be a fine choice for a 3W. But since he hasn't looked like a "no doubt" NHLer, I'd guess he's sent down. 

 

@brelic If I'm not mistaken, they can take a couple extra guys with them to Europe, since it's a much more difficult trip. They just can't be rostered. 

[brelic]

46 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

I think that he'd be fine to learn in the NHL if a team was willing to run a 12 minute, skilled 4th line. He'd also be a fine choice for a 3W. But since he hasn't looked like a "no doubt" NHLer, I'd guess he's sent down. 

 

Honestly, the groin injury kinda tells me he'd be better rehabbing that at the AHL level. It would just add another level of uncertainty with the NHL roster at this time.

 

47 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

@brelic If I'm not mistaken, they can take a couple extra guys with them to Europe, since it's a much more difficult trip. They just can't be rostered. 

 

Ah, ok. Good to know. Makes sense. 

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

Yeah, the roster is a mess right now because of the injuries - and we can add Frost to the list. Does that effectively take him out of the running for 3C? He should probably spend some time in LHV anyway where he can be on the top line, PP1, out on the ice late in games, etc.

 

My guess is Patrick won't go to Europe since they're leaving a few days after the 'mid-week' update - who knows if he joins the team on the western swing. So in that scenario, it makes more sense to carry 14 forwards and 7 defensemen. I figured they'd carry 8 D (as Fletch has mentioned/hinted) so they can basically decide which of Hagg and Morin to keep, and it gives them time to work out a deal since neither are waiver exempt. 

 

But now... seems like they might want some extra insurance up front on these long trips. So what to do with Hagg/Morin?

 

What a weird camp so far. They came right out and said what was wrong with Frost and gave a timetable, same with Pitlick, Gabriel. Patrick might have ebola for all we know, although that would be a TBI (total body injury).

 

I would think Hagg can fetch a 2nd, which is more value than Morin could fetch. Based on AV's words so far and Morin's usage and slotting, it seems like he might not be in the plans. 

 

Basically because of Europe, roster decisions will be made by the end of the week. Should be interesting!

 

 

 

AV needs to rethink his position on Morin.  He's a special case.  Hopefully Fletcher sees that.  If they deal him for squat, I believe we'll regret it later.

 

Still, I think there are ways around the roster issues.   There is maneuvering to do.  They can send Patrick and Misha or Twarynski to LHV on paper and they can likely still come on the trip in case of emergency.  

 

I agree Frost would benefit from some time in LHV.  His game is tricky.  He has to be given the room to develop into what he is.  His skillset is such that I don't think it will benefit him one iota to spend time on the 4th line in the pros.   Farabee, however is making a strong case for the 3RW slot.

 

It's a curious case with Patrick.  You can't help but wonder.  Concussion seems most likely, but they hadn't even started practicing yet, had they?  I'm gonna go with Lyme disease and hope all turns out for the best... but who the hell knows?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[brelic]

8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

AV needs to rethink his position on Morin.  He's a special case.  Hopefully Fletcher sees that.  If they deal him for squat, I believe we'll regret it later.

 

Yes it will be interesting to see what they do. I don't have a preference in the sense that whatever they decide to do, I'll trust that they know better than I. 

 

8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Still, I think there are ways around the roster issues.   There is maneuvering to do.  They can send Patrick and Misha or Twarynski to LHV on paper and they can likely still come on the trip in case of emergency.  

 

Wouldn't be a bad idea to send Patrick to LHV on a bus, not just paper. He'd get some games in while the team is away. But, in the end, it really depends on what the nature of his injury is. They are sure being careful if he seems to be skating well and cheery, yet not even cleared to share the same ice surface with the team. That doesn't sound like concussion to me, neither does the "we haven't decided on surgery" quote from Fletch.

 

Maybe the mid-week update is to tell us that he's had upper-body surgery lol.

 

8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I agree Frost would benefit from some time in LHV.  His game is tricky.  He has to be given the room to develop into what he is.  His skillset is such that I don't think it will benefit him one iota to spend time on the 4th line in the pros.   Farabee, however is making a strong case for the 3RW slot.

 

Agreed. In LHV he'd be playing the role they expect from him in Philly, but with more minutes and opportunity. May as well work out the kinks there.

 

I also agree about Farabee. I'd be fine if they send him back too, which allows him and Frost to build some chemistry. But with Patrick and Pitlick questionable, there's more opportunity.

 

 

8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

It's a curious case with Patrick.  You can't help but wonder.  Concussion seems most likely, but they hadn't even started practicing yet, had they?  I'm gonna go with Lyme disease and hope all turns out for the best... but who the hell knows?

 

 

Yeah, apparently they'd known about it "for a while" according to Fletch, and he said this before training camp opened. 

[intheslot]

https://www.nhl.com/flyers/news/meltzer-the-final-week/c-309404826

Good Read.

 

[Howie58]

Agreed these injuries are impacting the "culling" process. But they will also make for more line shuffling early on.  I suspect Pitlick will be given a shot on 3rd or 4th line after recovery.  It is messy.  

[AJgoal]

 

There better be a follow up soon noting that Stewart was released from his PTO.

 

Rubtsov and Aube-Kubel are surprising.

[brelic]

23 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

There better be a follow up soon noting that Stewart was released from his PTO.

 

Rubtsov and Aube-Kubel are surprising.

 

Yeah, Rubstov is surprising. NAK is a bit surprising, but he's competing for a wing spot against Twarynski, who they obviously liked more. 

 

So, we have 

 

G/C/TK

JVR/KH/V

Raffl/Laughton/Lindblom

 

Those are the guaranteed spots, IMO. 

 

Patrick is guaranteed too whenever he's healthy.

 

So, for now, three open spots (two long-term) left for these guys.. 

 

Frost (C/W)

Farabee (W)

Twarynski (W)

Bunnaman (C/W)

Pitlick (W)

Stewart (W)

 

Did I miss anyone?

 

Does that mean 4 of these guys (for spots #10,11,12,13) make the opening night roster? You gotta figure Pitlick is the closest to having a guaranteed spot among them?

 

Defense is still a mess. I wonder if they'd consider sending Myers down until they settle things since he's the only waiver exempt guy.

Edited September 24, 2019 by brelic

[brelic]

Just a bit of news from the Leafs camp - they've released Neuvirth from his PTO. 

 

I feel for the guy because he could be excellent when healthy, but that quote from Babcock leaves me wondering if there's more than just physical injuries. A lot of his ailments seemed curious and often mysterious, and Bab's quote kinda feels like he was very deliberate in his choice of words.

 

The Toronto Maple Leafs were looking for someone to backup and lighten the workload of starting goalie Frederik Andersen, and added Michal Neuvirth to a professional tryout contract in July as a possible candidate, but the 31-year-old’s bid to win a job ended on Tuesday when the Leafs released the veteran netminder.

Neuvirth played 257 games in his 11-year NHL career with Washington, Buffalo, the NY Islanders and Philadelphia, but battled a myriad of injuries during his years with the Flyers, which limited him to just seven starts last season.

After missing time early in training camp, the veteran goalie saw action for the first time in Buffalo, making 20 saves on 22 shots in 40 minutes in a 5-3 loss to the Sabres on Saturday, but missed practice and a scheduled start on Monday because he was “not feeling up to it” according to head coach Mike Babcock.

[AJgoal]

14 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Yeah, Rubstov is surprising. NAK is a bit surprising, but he's competing for a wing spot against Twarynski, who they obviously liked more.

 

I can see them liking Twarinski more, though I don't agree with it. They're judging on a small sample size over the collective bodies of work of both. And from all accounts, NAK has looked excellent, so it seems they're overvaluing the two goals (a la Jon Sim?). On top of that, he's also competing with Stewart, who has been objectively terribad, and doesn't belong with the rest 

 

14 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

 

 

So, we have 

 

G/C/TK

JVR/KH/V

Raffl/Laughton/Lindblom

 

Those are the guaranteed spots, IMO. 

 

Patrick is guaranteed too whenever he's healthy.

 

So, for now, three open spots (two long-term) left for these guys.. 

 

Frost (C/W)

Farabee (W)

Twarynski (W)

Bunnaman (C/W)

Pitlick (W)

Stewart (W)

 

Did I miss anyone?

 

Does that mean 4 of these guys (for spots #10,11,12,13) make the opening night roster? You gotta figure Pitlick is the closest to having a guaranteed spot among them?

 

Defense is still a mess. I wonder if they'd consider sending Myers down until they settle things since he's the only waiver exempt guy.

 

I doubt Myers is waived. His struggles last night aside, he's looked better than Hagg/Morin, and Fletcher had already penciled him in on the 3rd pair in the offseason. I'd guess they carry 8, or try to sneak one of the others through on the last day.

[mojo1917]

@brelic

@AJgoal

 

That Stewart is still kicking around is surprising. I thought he looked alright last night vs Boston, I don't know if playing up in the line-up helped or if Fletcher wants to keep him around for gooning... He looks noticeably less skilled than everyone else not named Andreoff. And really why the heck is that guy (Andreoff) even around ?

 

I am surprised by Rubstov, he's been really good every time I've watched them this preseason. He's got an NHL ready frame and seems to know his role....Really surprised by Frost not being sent down. He looks so slight to me.  I'm glad Twarinski is getting a longer look though. 

Having the depth is good. 

[brelic]

4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@brelic

@AJgoal

 

That Stewart is still kicking around is surprising. I thought he looked alright last night vs Boston, I don't know if playing up in the line-up helped or if Fletcher wants to keep him around for gooning... He looks noticeably less skilled than everyone else not named Andreoff. And really why the heck is that guy (Andreoff) even around ?

 

I am surprised by Rubstov, he's been really good every time I've watched them this preseason. He's got an NHL ready frame and seems to know his role....Really surprised by Frost not being sent down. He looks so slight to me.  I'm glad Twarinski is getting a longer look though. 

Having the depth is good. 

 

Something tells me Stewart will be the 12/13 forward.

 

Frost is the biggest surprise to me. He's out 5-7 days, which means he definitely won't play tomorrow (and was supposed to) and probably not in Switzerland either. So what does that mean? Could be that Patrick is out longer than expected.

 

@AJgoal I'd say that Twarynski has had more impact in the games he's played than NAK. The goals definitely help, but in general, he's just been much more noticeable during camp. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by brelic

[AJgoal]

10 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Something tells me Stewart will be the 12/13 forward.

 

That's what I'm afraid of. Considering he has been noticeably worse than anyone else when I've watched, it's disheartening to see him still there.

 

10 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Frost is the biggest surprise to me. He's out 5-7 days, which means he definitely won't play tomorrow (and was supposed to) and probably not in Switzerland either. So what does that mean? Could be that Patrick is out longer than expected.

 

18 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Really surprised by Frost not being sent down. He looks so slight to me. 

 

They can't send Frost down while he's injured.

 

10 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

@AJgoal I'd say that Twarynski has had more impact in the games he's played than NAK. The goals definitely help, but in general, he's just been much more noticeable during camp. 

 

I don't know. I've liked Twarinski, but I think overall NAK has been better when I've been able to watch. Always seems to be on the puck and manages to do something positive with it.

[radoran]

4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

That Stewart is still kicking around is surprising.

 

I don't find it surprising, given that the alternative for Stewart isn't being sent to the Valley, but just outright cut from his PTO.

 

1 minute ago, brelic said:

Something tells me Stewart will be the 12/13 forward.

 

I don't expect him to make the roster - saints preserve us if he does - but he has the value of not costing anything and being a warm body at the moment.

 

1 minute ago, brelic said:

Frost is the biggest surprise to me. He's out 5-7 days

 

can you waive a guy who's injured? Not sure, but I don't think so.

 

Just now, AJgoal said:

They can't send Frost down while he's injured.

 

Ah, there we go then!

[brelic]

@AJgoal @radoran Thanks re: Frost. 

 

Man, if we didn't have Hayes, our center depth would look pretty anemic.

 

Interesting take by Sam... he's probably right.

 

 

 

I mean, in the end, I don't really care if Stewart ends up being the 13th/14th guy who dresses for a few games when there are injuries or when AV wants a "heavy" lineup. He does have 652 GP and is a 1st round pick. Yeah, yeah, I know, he's 31 and hasn't really done squat the past half-decade. But I don't really care too much about the #13/14 forwards. 

 

Now... if he dresses every night as part of the regular 12, that's a different story.

 

 

 

[radoran]

6 minutes ago, brelic said:

Now... if he dresses every night as part of the regular 12, that's a different story.

 

This is my worry - that Stewart is the new Vandevelde...

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

There better be a follow up soon noting that Stewart was released from his PTO.

 

They don't have to release him from his PTO they can keep him on it for the year till they need him.

 

He can travel with the team practice with them and he won't count towards the roster limit.

[AJgoal]

Don't get me wrong I'm not really wanting to argue NAK vs. Twarinsky today, I'm more concerned over the thought process that has Stewart over NAK. However, I'll expand a bit on NAK vs. Twarinski. NAK is a hybrid between what I "want" in a 4th liner and the NHL idea of a 4th liner. Good at moving the puck, good at getting the puck. Good motor, has some physicality. He just seems to lack some of the finish at the NHL level, but he also hasn't seen a ton of NHL time. And if you look back, Twarinski had a good camp last year, was one of the last cuts, and then had a middling AHL season. I worry that Twarinski is a guy who is able to up his game over a short period of time in the preseason and then doesn't do much after that. If NAK passes through waivers and that happens and they switch them out, no harm no foul, but if NAK is claimed and plays well, and Twarinski goes back to being JAG, it's not the end of the world, but it's not  exactly good, either.

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

They don't have to release him from his PTO they can keep him on it for the year till they need him.

 

He can travel with the team practice with them and he won't count towards the roster limit.

 

My statement still stands.

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Don't get me wrong I'm not really wanting to argue NAK vs. Twarinsky today, I'm more concerned over the thought process that has Stewart over NAK. However, I'll expand a bit on NAK vs. Twarinski. NAK is a hybrid between what I "want" in a 4th liner and the NHL idea of a 4th liner. Good at moving the puck, good at getting the puck. Good motor, has some physicality. He just seems to lack some of the finish at the NHL level, but he also hasn't seen a ton of NHL time. And if you look back, Twarinski had a good camp last year, was one of the last cuts, and then had a middling AHL season. I worry that Twarinski is a guy who is able to up his game over a short period of time in the preseason and then doesn't do much after that. If NAK passes through waivers and that happens and they switch them out, no harm no foul, but if NAK is claimed and plays well, and Twarinski goes back to being JAG, it's not the end of the world, but it's not  exactly good, either.

 

My statement still stands.

 

I'm not wanting to keep Stewart around at NAK's expense either.

 

But this is maybe to get the waivers out the way he can still stay around and play with the Flyer now he won't require waivers for 30 days or once he has played 10 games it's more of a paper transaction so he ca play with the Phantoms too.

 

Seems Chuckles and AV are up to something.

[intheslot]

A day after their fifth preseason game, President of Hockey Operations & General Manager, Chuck Fletcher, announced the following roster moves. The Philadelphia Flyers have reduced their training camp roster by a total of seven players.
 

The following players have been loaned to the club's AHL affiliate, the Lehigh Valley Phantoms today:

24 - Mikhail Vorobyev    (C)
50 - German Rubtsov   (C)
59 - Mark Friedman   (D)

In addition, the club has placed the following players on Waivers today for the purpose of loaning to Lehigh Valley on Wednesday, Sept. 25:

10 - Andy Andreoff (RW)
20 - Chris Bigras (D)
29 - Kurtis Gabriel (RW) 
62 - Nicolas Aube-Kubel (RW)

The Flyers training camp roster is now at 27 players, and consists of the following players: 

FORWARDS (13)
11 - Travis Konecny RW
12 - Michael Raffl RW
13 - Kevin Hayes  C
14 - Sean Couturier C
21 - Scott Laughton C
23 - Oskar Lindblom RW
25 - James van Riemsdyk LW    
28 - Claude Giroux LW
44 - Chris Stewart RW    
49 - Joel Farabee RW
81 - Carsen Twarynski       LW
82 - Connor Bunnaman      C
93 - Jakub Voracek RW

DEFENSEMEN (8)
5 - Philippe Myers 
6 - Travis Sanheim 
8 - Robert Hagg
9 - Ivan Provorov
15 - Matt Niskanen
53 - Shayne Gostisbehere
55 - Samuel Morin
61 - Justin Braun

GOALTENDERS (2)
37 - Brian Elliott
79 - Carter Hart

INJURED (4)
3 - Andy Welinski D (lower-body)
18 - Tyler Pitlick C (wrist surgery - cleared to practice with no contact)
19 - Nolan Patrick C (upper body) 
48 - Morgan Frost C (groin strain)

The final roster is due to the National Hockey League's office at 5 p.m. ET on Tuesday, October 1.

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by intheslot
added letters

[brelic]

FWIW, Meltzer's take on the roster cuts.

 

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Meltzer/Flyers-Make-7-Roster-Cuts-Whats-the-Impact/45/101586

 

Here's the tl;ldr

 

- Laughton and Bunnaman the only remaining centers in camp (outside of Coots and Hayes and injured Frost) - they will likely be 3C and 4C to open.

 

- AV said battles are on for #6,7,8 D spots. Bill argues Morin seems to be 8th, so the active lineup spot comes down to Hagg v. Myers.

 

- Rubstov started well but faded as camp wore on.

 

- No surprise Vorobyev was cut; too inconsistent.

 

- Farabee and Twarynski likely candidates for two open wing spots on opening night.

 

- Stewart's status remains "shaky depending on rookie forwards making the team and on Pitlick's timetable to play in a game."

 

- Flyers have to get down to 23 by opening night but they plan on taking two extra bodies (likely a third goalie and 14th forward) along to Europe.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by brelic

[Podein25]

26 minutes ago, brelic said:

Stewart's status remains "shaky"

 

I should bloody well fukcin' hope so!

[OccamsRazor]

Watch Montreal claim NAK...

 

...they have Cousins, Weise, Weal and Folin already...

Edited September 24, 2019 by OccamsRazor

[radoran]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Watch Montreal claim NAK...

 

...they have Cousins, Weise, Weal and Folin already...

 

Hard to believe they only have one round of playoffs in four years.

 

Oh, wait...