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Puck_Pun

You Should Be Mad

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It's not because it's overstayed its welcome but because they took this long to take offence at the rest of her music library. Details

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What is the big deal here?  Its good to hear something other than the Star Spangled Banner once in a while.  I wish they would sing America the Beautiful more often. 

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The big deal is apparently they're shocked that a musician who was famous in the 40s sang racist songs which, well, was the style at the time.

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6 minutes ago, Puck_Pun said:

The big deal is apparently they're shocked that a musician who was famous in the 40s sang racist songs which, well, was the style at the time.

 

 

What do you mean racist lyrics first i have heard of this?

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1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

What do you mean racist lyrics first i have heard of this?

 

From the article I linked to

 

Quote

Smith was a famous singer before and during WWII who recorded the offensive jingle, 'Pickaninny Heaven' which she directed at 'colored children' who should fantasize about an amazing place with 'great big watermelons,' among other treats. She shot a video for that song that takes place in an orphanage for black children, and much of the imagery is startlingly racist. She also recorded, 'That’s Why Darkies Were Born,' which included the lyrics, 'Someone had to pick the cotton. … That’s why darkies were born'

 

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9 minutes ago, Puck_Pun said:

The big deal is apparently they're shocked that a musician who was famous in the 40s sang racist songs which, well, was the style at the time.

 

Nevermind i have just found an article on it. Wow.

 

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"Someone had to pick the cotton,
Someone had to plant the corn,
Someone had to slave and be able to sing,
That's why darkies were born"

 

I am speechless...and am glad they did the right thing and besides...it hasn't done squat to bring luck for what 43 years!

 

Good riddance!!!!!!!

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Didn't realize that was the reason.  I was thinking that the organization finally realized it's a bit of a tired routine.  Time for something new.  Frankly, trotting out ol' Kate was a bitter reminder to me of how good this team once was.  I'd wager more than 75% of the fans in the arena didn't care anyway.  Let Lauren Hart sing God Bless America if they want to mix it up. 

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Also, they should leave the Kate Smith statute covered up that way.  Looks like Palpatine now.

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The break from the past is probably a good thing.  Whether we are too harsh looking at Smith's output through "modern eyes" might be a discussion worth having.  Meanwhile, I agree that "America the Beautiful," or maybe Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man," would be wonderful alternatives to the "Star Spangled Banner."  

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

too harsh looking at Smith's output through "modern eyes"

Exactly.  When not put into context of that time, it may seem, to those in this day and age, absolutely horrifying.  And we know what happens when people who are absolutely horrified by something react.  So, if we are going to judge by our standard today, we should at least be consistent and remove all trace of Bing Crosby, his songs and movies.  Anyone ever watch the Christmas movie "Holiday Inn"?  Remember the song "Abraham" and the routine done in blackface?  Fred Astaire was part of that too.  Ban him.  Johnny Cash covered "Pick a Bale of Cotton."  Ban him.  The song "Ol' Man River"?  Racist.  Ban it and anyone who has ever sung it.  Pretty much every American folk song we sang as kids is racist.  "Oh!  Susanna", "Camptown Races", Jimmy Crack Corn", "I've Been working on the Railroad."  Ban them all.  And while we're going down this path - what about the MeToo movement?  "The Lady is a Tramp"?  Sexist.  Ban Frank and anyone who ever sang it.  These are just a small few of the more obvious and we've barely even scratched the surface but we're on a roll!!  The only question is, where do we stop?

Edited by OH1FlyersFan
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After using her for 50 years they "discover" that she had some problematic songs recorded 80 years ago.

 

Way to be on top of things, guys.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, OH1FlyersFan said:

Exactly.  When not put into context of that time, it may seem, to those in this day and age, absolutely horrifying.  And we know what happens when people who are absolutely horrified by something react.  So, if we are going to judge by our standard today, we should at least be consistent and remove all trace of Bing Crosby, his songs and movies.  Anyone ever watch the Christmas movie "Holiday Inn"?  Remember the song "Abraham" and the routine done in blackface?  Fred Astaire was part of that too.  Ban him.  Johnny Cash covered "Pick a Bale of Cotton."  Ban him.  The song "Ol' Man River"?  Racist.  Ban it and anyone who has ever sung it.  Pretty much every American folk song we sang as kids is racist.  "Oh!  Susanna", "Camptown Races", Jimmy Crack Corn", "I've Been working on the Railroad."  Ban them all.  And while we're going down this path - what about the MeToo movement?  "The Lady is a Tramp"?  Sexist.  Ban Frank and anyone who ever sang it.  These are just a small few of the more obvious and we've barely even scratched the surface but we're on a roll!!  The only question is, where do we stop?

 

Ok.

 

So it sounds like you'll be busy.

 

I didn't know the Flyers had a statue of Johnny Cash in front of the stadium...or Bing either learn something new every day.

 

:beer:

Edited by OccamsRazor

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1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Ok.

 

Do it sounds like you'll be busy.

 

I didn't know the Flyers had a statue of Johnny Cash in front of the stadium...or Bing either learn something new every day.

 

:beer:

I don't think they have statues of either. Just pointing out similarities for consistency's sake.

 

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1 minute ago, OH1FlyersFan said:

I don't think they have statues of either. Just pointing out similarities for consistency's sake.

 

 

Sure.

 

But just because something was ok doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to it today.

 

The Confederate flag is viewed the same use to be cool but you can't even wear it to school anymore.

 

So how do you feel about that since we're getting off the subject.

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Was the music she did back in the day being played by currently by the Flyers Org? I am gonna take a no on that. I am not going to miss the piece because it was overplayed/overused for the last 30 years and that should have been the real reason for retiring it, not because Ed Snider's grand parents used to own slaves or something........I would challenge anyone in todays media to the fact that they have made poor decisions in their pasts that they are not proud of. They learned from their mistakes and I am sure they are not the only ones. Was my Halloween costume where I dressed as a priest and strapped a cabbage patch doll face down in my crotch done in poor taste? Yes, but it seemed funny at the time.........

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3 minutes ago, flyerrod said:

.I would challenge anyone in todays media to the fact that they have made poor decisions in their pasts

And I bet that, given the time period during which Kate sang these songs, she and very few other people would have believed her decision to sing those songs was a poor one.  They just didn't think that way - the way we do now.  It's all relative.  Like my Great Aunt who hated the Japanese for her entire life - and she lived to be 94 - well into the 1980's, because "they" killed her brother at Pearl Harbor in a sneak attack, no less.  It was always interesting how the type of attack bothered her as much as the result of the attack.

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I like the song, it isn't racist. I would like for it to be used more often instead of the god awful star spangled banner...

 

There are some many unsavory examples of how poorly we as Americans have treated each other over the years it would be tiresome to list them all. 

To apply today's social norms to the past and declare everyone living at that time as a "way" isn't fair. 

Just the same to continue to turn a blind eye to those injustices is not wise either.

 

The Flyers are doing the right thing.

Not really much to see here IMO.

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41 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sure.

 

But just because something was ok doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to it today.

 

The Confederate flag is viewed the same use to be cool but you can't even wear it to school anymore.

 

So how do you feel about that since we're getting off the subject.

I agree with that.  It doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye.  And that was my point.  If we turn our eye on Kate, then we have to carefully and honestly examine everything, everyone else up and down the line and across all mediums, who may have ever done, said, sang, painted, written, you name it something similar.  If we have a standard, we have to apply it equally to everyone and everything.  

 

Heck, even Abe Lincoln should be called into question - he gave speech in 1862 to a delegation of black ministers at the White House where he stated that he recognized slavery as a source of the Civil War and that slavery, by its very presence on this continent, had instilled violence.  Lincoln proposed that the way to get around that violence was that the slaves needed to leave the country and that, in doing so, they would find a peaceful existence abroad, enabling whites to find a peaceful existence in the US.  What are we supposed to do with that? It was before the Emancipation Proclamation, so his thinking may have evolved, but still, it's appropriate to question his motives.

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51 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sure.

 

But just because something was ok doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to it today.

 

The Confederate flag is viewed the same use to be cool but you can't even wear it to school anymore.

 

So how do you feel about that since we're getting off the subject.

 

Big difference. The Confederate flag is arguably the most recognizable symbol of a rogue "nation" fighting a war of secession for (among other things) the right to maintain slavery.  Kate Smith sang a song. I'm not even sure she wrote them. Is there any evidence that she herself was racist? Public comments? Known beliefs? If that is the case - different story.

 

I don't blame the Flyers for doing what they did. They had to - especially after the Yankees pulled the plug. I'm just saddened we live in a world now where they felt that had to pull the plug.  Confederate flag? Whole other ballgame.

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17 minutes ago, B21 said:

I don't blame the Flyers for doing what they did. They had to - especially after the Yankees pulled the plug. I'm just saddened we live in a world now where they felt that had to pull the plug

 

The reasoning might be less about "having to do it" and more "she was part of a history that we don't really support in the modern narrative and more enlightened views." So it made sense to drop it. 

 

It's the same argument that has been brewing about R Kelly, who is a contemporary, and it's easy to shut him out. But what about Michael Jackson? He's dead, long gone, but his music remains. Should people support him and his estate by listening to his music? Should they ban him on terrestrial radio (is that still a thing?)? Or do we believe that people are capable of separating the music from the person? Is that enough?

 

 

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1 hour ago, flyerrod said:

Was the music she did back in the day being played by currently by the Flyers Org? I am gonna take a no on that. I am not going to miss the piece because it was overplayed/overused for the last 30 years and that should have been the real reason for retiring it, not because Ed Snider's grand parents used to own slaves or something........I would challenge anyone in todays media to the fact that they have made poor decisions in their pasts that they are not proud of. They learned from their mistakes and I am sure they are not the only ones. Was my Halloween costume where I dressed as a priest and strapped a cabbage patch doll face down in my crotch done in poor taste? Yes, but it seemed funny at the time.........

 

You pig!!!!

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41 minutes ago, OH1FlyersFan said:

.  If we have a standard, we have to apply it equally to everyone and everything.  

 

Yes I agree.

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58 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

The reasoning might be less about "having to do it" and more "she was part of a history that we don't really support in the modern narrative and more enlightened views." So it made sense to drop it. 

 

It's the same argument that has been brewing about R Kelly, who is a contemporary, and it's easy to shut him out. But what about Michael Jackson? He's dead, long gone, but his music remains. Should people support him and his estate by listening to his music? Should they ban him on terrestrial radio (is that still a thing?)? Or do we believe that people are capable of separating the music from the person? Is that enough?

 

 

 

I don't think something as simple as listening to music (or playing a particular song by a particular musician) necessarily means you "support" them.  I think we have gone way way WAY to far as a society in the regard.  

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I think she be allowed to still sing it so players can now take a knee at the blueline while it plays....

 

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2 hours ago, brelic said:

He's dead, long gone, but his music remains. Should people support him and his estate by listening to his music? Should they ban him on terrestrial radio (is that still a thing?)? Or do we believe that people are capable of separating the music from the person?

I have had a hard time wanting to listen to MJ after watching the HBO documentary about him.

Truly it hasn't been that hard. The music is the music but now when I hear it I don't remember my youth, I remember the faces of broken families. 

 

 

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    • 9
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      To put these offensive songs into perspective...."That's why Darkies Were Born" was a satirical song that was written to make fun of racism.  It was also sung by Paul Robeson, an African American actor and civil rights activist.  "Pickaninny Heaven" was sung by Kate Smith as part of the move "Hello Everybody"  She didn't write the song, simply sang it as part of her character in the movie.   In my mind, this is not a question of moving on from an old tradition, but it is a question of
    • 8
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      I'm glad you brought this up OR as this is something I've been looking into the last few days.  What do we know about her character and how did she come to sing these songs?  It's a long post but I will share some of my findings and my feelings below if you care to read.     I haven't commented yet on this matter as I have been busy doing research the last few days as this whole episode bothers me as a Flyers fan.  We've all seen and discussed that at least one song was parody and was
    • 6
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      So is removing a statue changing history ?  I mean- we still had the civil war regardless of how many statues still stand honoring  the losers. Many weren't erected until well after the war, in defiance of Robert E Lee's request to leave it be.  I'm probably not telling you anything about the daughters of the confederacy. Hidden Content Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.  that you don't know a
    • 4
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      Very well put. Too bad that all too often people kowtow to the loudest complainer in the room just to keep the peace instead of standing by what is right. People who want to change history because they do not like it are doomed to repeat the same mistakes as their predecessors. It is a trap set by today's political correctness that infects all of society today.
    • 4
      Post
      We're living in a time of unbridled outrage that people attempt to quell with outrageous and extreme reactions.   Our nation was 50% conceived of and founded by men who owned other human beings as slaves.   Slavery (though often not entirely racial) was sanctioned and endorsed in the Bible and never really un-endorsed in the new testament.   Overt racism was utterly acceptable and utterly legal in my parents generation.    It sounds impossible to comprehend in
    • 4
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      also, it's great to be back, you guys rock.

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