You Should Be Mad

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, B21 said:

 

I don't think something as simple as listening to music (or playing a particular song by a particular musician) necessarily means you "support" them.  I think we have gone way way WAY to far as a society in the regard.  

 

this is an interesting concept. who is "we" ? the outrage professionals on twitter and facebook ?

I barely participate on twitter and deleted my facebook account long ago, so anecdotally I don't see too much of the "outrage" ,I see outrage over the outrage. 

 

A good many of my friends and colleagues talk about how "everyone gets offended so easily" Is it that ? or is it people of privilege have to now consider what they say or write prior to letting their thoughts loose upon the world and it makes them uncomfortable?

I personally don't think "wokeness" is a bad thing. Treat everyone with dignity until they show you they are not worthy.

Making a clumsy racial/sexual joke, or longingly remembering the days when people were treated less than; are poor positions to remain intransigent about

Edited April 19, 2019 by mojo1917

[Special guest speaker]

Leave Kate Smith and do away with the video duet with Lauren Hart.... Jmho but that's annoying... How about some really talented kid singers or police officers or firemen who can "sing" , military or veterans ..... You keep beating the same dead horse , you're gonna keep getting the same result... No offense to Lauren Hart she's a talented singer don't get me wrong... But a change every now and then would be nice.... I'm just saying.... Again I'm so don't get all bent out of shape on me ....

[Special guest speaker]

Didn't realize the racial stuff was involved just tired of that dumbassss duet they do....... Bring in the kids and everyday fans to sing like I mentioned above.... That would be pretty cool in my eyes... Local school choirs etc.... Submit a video clip and have the fans vote on who they would like to sing... Just a thought...

Edited April 20, 2019 by Special guest speaker

[Special guest speaker]

9 hours ago, OH1FlyersFan said:

Exactly.  When not put into context of that time, it may seem, to those in this day and age, absolutely horrifying.  And we know what happens when people who are absolutely horrified by something react.  So, if we are going to judge by our standard today, we should at least be consistent and remove all trace of Bing Crosby, his songs and movies.  Anyone ever watch the Christmas movie "Holiday Inn"?  Remember the song "Abraham" and the routine done in blackface?  Fred Astaire was part of that too.  Ban him.  Johnny Cash covered "Pick a Bale of Cotton."  Ban him.  The song "Ol' Man River"?  Racist.  Ban it and anyone who has ever sung it.  Pretty much every American folk song we sang as kids is racist.  "Oh!  Susanna", "Camptown Races", Jimmy Crack Corn", "I've Been working on the Railroad."  Ban them all.  And while we're going down this path - what about the MeToo movement?  "The Lady is a Tramp"?  Sexist.  Ban Frank and anyone who ever sang it.  These are just a small few of the more obvious and we've barely even scratched the surface but we're on a roll!!  The only question is, where do we stop?

Ahh to h e double hockey sticks with it let's just ban it all , no music just the LETS GO FLYERS  chant and the REF YOU SUCK chant and a yippee when we score .... If you target one symbol of pride/hate however you interpret things then tear down all of the statues not just those that offend a handful or group of people , don't have Puerto Rican day parade, don't have black history month, because the SECOND someone wants to celebrate being white heritage automatically they are labeled a racist , there is a program on called " that white people schit " without the c of course but that's just fine but you call a show that n word schit and poke fun and things they like that's not"ok"   sounds like a double standard to me..... But that's America these days  you're damned if you're white cause you Must be racist  , white privilege my azzz....

[mojo1917]

@Special guest speaker

Some questions for you then.

Do you think folks who are different from yourself receiving equal treatment takes rights and opportunity away from you ?

Do you experience fear  when you're stopped in traffic ? 

 

This post is exhibit A for describing white privilege.  The group in power has zero empathy for those who are not.

It is not conceivable because there is zero shared  experience. 

The attitude displayed in that post is a large part of our collective problem.

 

 

[flyerrod]

17 hours ago, fan4ever said:

 

You pig!!!!

Oink!

[OccamsRazor]

Gone!!!!

 

 

 

[Podein25]

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Gone!!!!

 

 

 

 

Decisive action by the Flyers! Too bad it was in the parking lot.

[Adamflyers]

To put these offensive songs into perspective...."That's why Darkies Were Born" was a satirical song that was written to make fun of racism.  It was also sung by Paul Robeson, an African American actor and civil rights activist.  "Pickaninny Heaven" was sung by Kate Smith as part of the move "Hello Everybody"  She didn't write the song, simply sang it as part of her character in the movie.

 

In my mind, this is not a question of moving on from an old tradition, but it is a question of ruining the reputation of a person who can't defend herself since she is 6 feet under.  If you are going to trash a person who supposedly meant to much to the team, the least they could do is show us that they did a thorough investigation.

 

For more perspective, take a historical figure like Lincoln and drop him into 2019 where none of us know who he is.  Imagine he tweets that all black people should be sent back to Africa, which was his attitude during his time.  You think he would be loved or run out on a rail?  Point being, it is pretty unfair to judge past attitudes by today's "woke" standards.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I think it's important that all information is known before rushing to judgement.

[hf101]

Incredible. Yet in today's world, many rap songs are sung as ok. 

[MaineFlyFan]

God, I hated that tradition......All part of the "old mentality" that this team needs to shake BAD!

 

 Now if they would just remove a few "statues" from the front office!.....

 

Also, Racism sucks really bad and the fact we're still battling it in VERY real ways in 2019 sucks even worse. However, it was pretty WIDE SPREAD and socially accepted in the 30's.....which provides context of course for the offensive material from Smith's catalogue (albeit a VERY small and insignificant portion of her catalogue).

 

ANYWAY, This is more my type of "30's satire music".....

 

 

[flyerrod]

16 hours ago, Adamflyers said:

To put these offensive songs into perspective...."That's why Darkies Were Born" was a satirical song that was written to make fun of racism.  It was also sung by Paul Robeson, an African American actor and civil rights activist.  "Pickaninny Heaven" was sung by Kate Smith as part of the move "Hello Everybody"  She didn't write the song, simply sang it as part of her character in the movie.

 

In my mind, this is not a question of moving on from an old tradition, but it is a question of ruining the reputation of a person who can't defend herself since she is 6 feet under.  If you are going to trash a person who supposedly meant to much to the team, the least they could do is show us that they did a thorough investigation.

 

For more perspective, take a historical figure like Lincoln and drop him into 2019 where none of us know who he is.  Imagine he tweets that all black people should be sent back to Africa, which was his attitude during his time.  You think he would be loved or run out on a rail?  Point being, it is pretty unfair to judge past attitudes by today's "woke" standards.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I think it's important that all information is known before rushing to judgement.

Very well put. Too bad that all too often people kowtow to the loudest complainer in the room just to keep the peace instead of standing by what is right. People who want to change history because they do not like it are doomed to repeat the same mistakes as their predecessors. It is a trap set by today's political correctness that infects all of society today.

[mojo1917]

24 minutes ago, flyerrod said:

People who want to change history because they do not like it are doomed to repeat the same mistakes as their predecessors. It is a trap set by today's political correctness that infects all of society today.

 

So is removing a statue changing history ? 

I mean- we still had the civil war regardless of how many statues still stand honoring  the losers.

Many weren't erected until well after the war, in defiance of Robert E Lee's request to leave it be. 

I'm probably not telling you anything about the daughters of the confederacy.https://www.salon.com/2018/10/06/7-things-the-united-daughters-of-the-confederacy-might-not-want-you-to-know-about-them_partner/ that you don't know already. 

 

Removing the statue of a person who did ****** things when everyone was doing ****** things isn't "changing history", nor is it correcting it. It is recognizing that ****** things were done and no longer honoring the person who did them. Before you come at me with George Washington, remember my 3 other posts in this thread where I say applying today's standards to the past isn't fair, and that George Washington founded the goddamned country and Kate Smith sang some songs. Plus, her statue was gross, it looked like Christmas tree with a head.

 

I am not a black person, however I think I wouldn't like going to school everyday at a place named for a person who fought and died so that I could remain a slave.

 

White privilege is a bad name for the racial and financial inequality we have in 'merica. Most white people I know don't feel like they're getting many benefits from being white. So reading or hearing about "privilege" inflames an already touchy subject. 

 

My family is mixed race, I have had to endure diversity training at work. However,  when you see how poorly white people treat the brown people you love terribly, it tends to bring those teachings into acute focus .

 

 

[MaineFlyFan]

36 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I am not a black person, however I think I wouldn't like going to school everyday at a place named for a person who fought and died so that I could remain a slave. 

 

Why is this so hard for some people to understand.....

 

ANYWAY, is it Sept yet?!......;)

[mojo1917]

@MaineFlyFan

 

I'm with you, ready to watch more Flyers hockey....I also don't like knowing as much as I do about the Flyers drafts prospects and talent pool...it mean's our team kinda sucks. 

 

I do think we're in for a pretty interesting NHL draft and free agency period this year though. 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by mojo1917

[Poulin20]

I found this to be an interesting take from a person of color. 

 

 

 

[Poconono]

The Flyers and Yankees will also ban the 101st Airborne from future events due to wearing blackface prior to D-Day.

 

[flyerrod]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

So is removing a statue changing history ? 

I mean- we still had the civil war regardless of how many statues still stand honoring  the losers.

Many weren't erected until well after the war, in defiance of Robert E Lee's request to leave it be. 

I'm probably not telling you anything about the daughters of the confederacy.https://www.salon.com/2018/10/06/7-things-the-united-daughters-of-the-confederacy-might-not-want-you-to-know-about-them_partner/ that you don't know already. 

 

Removing the statue of a person who did ****** things when everyone was doing ****** things isn't "changing history", nor is it correcting it. It is recognizing that ****** things were done and no longer honoring the person who did them. Before you come at me with George Washington, remember my 3 other posts in this thread where I say applying today's standards to the past isn't fair, and that George Washington founded the goddamned country and Kate Smith sang some songs. Plus, her statue was gross, it looked like Christmas tree with a head.

 

I am not a black person, however I think I wouldn't like going to school everyday at a place named for a person who fought and died so that I could remain a slave.

 

White privilege is a bad name for the racial and financial inequality we have in 'merica. Most white people I know don't feel like they're getting many benefits from being white. So reading or hearing about "privilege" inflames an already touchy subject. 

 

My family is mixed race, I have had to endure diversity training at work. However,  when you see how poorly white people treat the brown people you love terribly, it tends to bring those teachings into acute focus .

 

 

The statue removal thing ( or Christmas tree with a head) as you so aptly put, because of songs that were sang in a musical/play written/performed over 80 years ago seems to be much  ado about nothing. She supported armed service members her entire career. I am going to give more credence to that than something dug up from her past. Why not go after the record company for putting out the songs? Or for that matter go after some of the record companies today for some of the racist songs they market today.

P.S.

 Diversity training is as painful for us poor white folk too just so you know.......The problem is that everybody has to suffer through it because of the attitudes of a few and not the many. It really is too bad you are not allow to single people out for being imbeciles.........Unless it happens to be about something that happened almost 100 years ago......

added from an article from one of Kate's family members...

Suzy Andron, who helped take care of Smith in North Carolina prior to her death in 1986, said she never had conversations with her aunt about those particular songs, nor the ad. But she strongly objected to the characterization of Smith as racist and said she was "saddened that a woman who has been dead for almost 35 years would be attacked in this way."

"Aunt Kathryn really did not see color," Suzy Andron said. "She didn't see a person's color. She was very in tune with a person's character. I've always thought that was a model, to not see a person's color but to see their character. And this is why I'm incredibly sad."

Bob and Suzy Andron both described Smith as a patriot who sought to use her talent to benefit her country. According to "Kate Smith: A Bio-Bibliography," the late singer is credited with helping sell $600 million in war bonds during World War II and was awarded the Presidential Medal of Honor by Ronald Reagan in 1982, when her health was in decline.

Edited April 22, 2019 by flyerrod

[mojo1917]

19 minutes ago, flyerrod said:

Diversity training is as painful for us poor white folk too just so you know

I'm white - you missed this point entirely. I didn't expound upon it. non secret code version: I didn't like having to do it, until it mattered to me. -I probably could have been more clear there.

 

I feel pretty sure you're not going to see this issue entirely my way but that you're willing to engage in it presents an opening to present an perspective you may not have thought about. So thanks for that.

I have enough of "whatever" is required to be able to see a lot of the grey areas in modern life, and can acknowledge you're probably a decent bloke, despite this area of disagreement between us. 

24 minutes ago, flyerrod said:

Aunt Kathryn really did not see color," Suzy Andron said.

 

This statement alone is part and parcel of the problem, by "not seeing color" one is not seeing the other person as a whole person.

By not allowing the other person's race inform who they are and how they relate to the world is denying that person their full self.  

"Not seeing color" is a nice sentiment, in practice it is dismissive, and most likely, untrue.

 

Back to the Flyers and how this relates, It was cool, I guess, in the 70s when they were undefeated when playing that song, but since that magik spell has been broken, I don't need to hear Kate Smith sing it any longer.

I love that song and wish it were our national anthem-  I would be fine with Lauren Hart singing it or any modern era artist. 

The statue removal  is the kind of thing that would have been done quietly prior to 24 hour news cycle and instant outrage production vehicles of social media. More is being made of this than I certainly care to see or think about. The underlying issue as to why it is being removed is good conversation to have though. 

[mojo1917]

43 minutes ago, Poconono said:

The Flyers and Yankees will also ban the 101st Airborne from future events due to wearing blackface prior to D-Day.

 

this is stupid. thanks !

[Buffalo Rick]

On 4/19/2019 at 11:24 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Nevermind i have just found an article on it. Wow.

 

That's Why Darkies Were Born

 

 

"Someone had to pick the cotton,

Someone had to plant the corn,

Someone had to slave and be able to sing,

That's why darkies were born"

 

I am speechless...and am glad they did the right thing and besides...it hasn't done squat to bring luck for what 43 years!

 

Good riddance!!!!!!!

She is not here to defend herself.  How do you know what she believed?  She grew up in a different era.  Leave her the hell alone I say

[flyerrod]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

This statement alone is part and parcel of the problem, by "not seeing color" one is not seeing the other person as a whole person.

By not allowing the other person's race inform who they are and how they relate to the world is denying that person their full self.  

"Not seeing color" is a nice sentiment, in practice it is dismissive, and most likely, untrue.

 

The color of someone's skin says exactly zero about who the person is. If you are judging a person by their color before you have even met them, you are doing them a great disservice. That is the point that was trying to be conveyed. I have family members today that I do not speak to because of their "beliefs" (racism) and frankly it is embarrassing and I choose not to be seen or associate with them because you can't convince them they are wrong. By the way I do agree that the retirement of that song was overdo as I said in my first entry but mostly because the Flyers have overplayed it more than (insert NickelBack song here). I thank you for keeping this discussion going and inserting a different point of view.  Most of the time I tend to agree with you anyhow.

 

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

She is not here to defend herself.  How do you know what she believed?  She grew up in a different era.  Leave her the hell alone I say

 

Doesn't matter if she didn't feel this way she shouldn't have sung it.

 

Period I don't care when she lived.

 

What would she say to defend it someone held a gun to her head and made her sing it?

 

You can leave her alone all you want doesn't mean I have too.

[pilldoc]

Bill has a great blog on this very subject today.  It is well worth the read.

 

Though I may not completely agree with what the Flyers did, I certainly can understand their predicament.

 

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Meltzer/On-Kate-Smith-History-and-Context/45/99094

[Buffalo Rick]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Doesn't matter if she didn't feel this way she shouldn't have sung it.

 

Period I don't care when she lived.

 

What would she say to defend it someone held a gun to her head and made her sing it?

 

You can leave her alone all you want doesn't mean I have too.

Well you do not find it strange all this comes up now?