You Should Be Mad

[Podein25]

9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I hate everyone.....equally...

 

..except @Podein25

 

...I hate him them most.

 

Because he is always blaming the greatest player to lace them up....

 

jon sim jon sim jon sim jon sim jon sim

 

 

 

 

Honored

[OccamsRazor]

14 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Honored

 

[aziz]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I would love it if our ancestry didn't matter. I'm totally ready for "meh, doesn't matter"...but it does. 

Today, being brown in this country presents a unique set of extra hurdles to navigate. 

 

true, and well said.  these things do have an impact on life today, and that counts.  my point was that when presented with the choice to increase the importance of these differences or decrease them, we should choose decrease at every opportunity.  the current movement towards increasing attention on these things, on self-segregation and evaluation of an opinion's worth based on the holder's skin color (or direct connection to whatever victim status is being discussed) takes us away from the goal of "meh".  

 

i don't mean to minimize anyone's struggles.  i'm just trying to say that those struggles continue for exactly as long as this society puts people into these kinds of categories.  the day white versus black (or vice versa) racism ends is the day everyone stops caring if a person is black or white, not before.  we are programmed to act against differences so long as we feel the differences mean something.  we need to stop letting them mean something.

 

[aziz]

4 hours ago, brelic said:

This is in opposition to the life-denying way society handles it now - by judging, castigating, and dismissing on an aggregate scale that filters down to the individual.

 

this is it, exactly.   there really is a movement afoot today that is seeking to put people back into boxes, to re-establish and reaffirm the hard lines that can be drawn around groups of people, and it is evil.  it advertises itself as progressive and seeking equity (notably NOT equality), but it is reversing decades of progress made by the drift of perspectives towards "we are all just people".  because that drift is real and it has taken us a long way from where we were in the '60s and '70s.  to take away its energy, to re-emphasize things that shouldn't matter, resets a clock.  humans are built to adapt, we have evolved to where we are because we can forget these tribal separations.  we can come together across ethnic and religious and racial boundaries, have done so for thousands of years.  we just have to redefine what we consider "our people".  that only happens when we are allowed to stop seeing groups as "not our people". 

 

things like this are a fatal fly in that ointment:

 

https://www.thecollegefix.com/university-hosts-no-whites-allowed-faculty-and-staff-listening-sessions-to-promote-inclusivity/

 

it just has to stop.  there is no underlying difference between any of us.  we should be seeking the places and moments and opportunities to share, not to create or rebuild divisions.  we aren't there yet, obviously, and that means we have current impacts that have to be recognized and dealt with, but the overall solution is not to highlight our differences or separations.  the solution is, to my mind, to encourage people to be "meh" about all of this.  the solution is not to reflect on how your ancestry informs your current life, it is to realize how little your ancestry should mean, period. 

 

i read "main street" by sinclair lewis several years ago, and it struck home to me in several ways.  first, it is the most boring book that has ever been written.  second, there is a dude in the book that lives on the outskirts of town who is scandinavian.  it is a really big deal in the book, no one will deal with him because he is one of "those".  like, he was a complete pariah, anyone that interacted with him was met with a collective "ewwwww" from the townsfolk, as scandinavians were (apparently) seen as trash.  it struck me because it never occurred to me that there might be a reason to dislike danish or dutch or norwegian people.  they seemed about as milk toast as an ethnic group could be.  except the book (written in 1920) made a HUGE deal out of it.  sure, they were vikings way back, and vikings were assholes, but still, why hold that against a guy hundreds of years after the fact?  but it happened.  the book taught me that it happened for a long time.  until, one day, we forgot to care about whether someone was from norway or not.  and now it just doesn't mean anything.

 

and that is how a society heals from these kinds of divisions.  it forgets about them.  it doesn't honor the divisions, it doesn't make a point of highlighting and elevating one group from another.  it forgets that there is a difference.  

 

we are each individuals, and in a truly "equal" society, we let the individuals represent themselves.  they are what they show themselves to be.  the second we incorporate a gestalt concept of group identity and apply it to individuals is where we are ****ed.  when we override the importance of the individual and insist on generalizations based on intersectional definitions, we have long term problems.  as you say, the second we "aggregate" people into groups, and ascribe a common motive and thought process and life experience to every individual in said group, we are moving ourselves backwards.

[aziz]

also, it's great to be back, you guys rock.

[926]

Normally this news walks on by, a mess among the millions every time online in future shock.

 

So the entertainer who sang God Bless America for millions of Americans is now declared un-American? ********. You would have thought Comcast discovered Kate Smith was raising money for the Axis.

 

For Flyers fans it’s par for our org, the Flyers trade away another all-time gem, goes well with the 3 centers we drafted and traded who went to hoist the Cup elsewhere, and the forward dubbed Mr Game 7, with his name on it a Couple of times, who just won another game 7, coached by another center, make that 4 centers traded away who went to win the Cup, the tireless Brind’Amour, who is coaching an organization below the MasonDixon still in the playoffs past the most recent Cup champ.  Another coach we dropped took his team to its first Cup in Music City, then there’s a goalie(!) we traded who then played for Vezina in a college football town, he’s still playing next week, and don’t get me started on Hall of Famer #88, it goes On and on, and on and on, except in ol’ Philadelphia Freedom where the ice melts in April.

 

So don’t worry Kate Smith, you’ll move to bigger and brighter games now that the Flyers have chopped your ankles off.

 

If I were a maverick organization in this wacky wide world of sports, I’d start opening day playing Kate Smith videos and encourage every paying fan, from every color, creed, every gender and generation to stand and sing in unison God Bless America with Kate leading the way.  I’m sure as news sifts through people’s busy lives, they’ll understand that standing with Kate is still in good standing.  

 

**** it,  Comcast team, here's a guaranteed WIN WIN for social clicks and season tics: re-sign Simmonds and re-install Kate's statute on the same day and we may drink from the Cup in '20. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

13 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Honored

 

[mojo1917]

I would just like to say I've very much enjoyed reading the thoughts in this thread. Thanks everyone, this thread could be exhibit A for what is good about the internet.

[brelic]

27 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I would just like to say I've very much enjoyed reading the thoughts in this thread. Thanks everyone, this thread could be exhibit A for what is good about the internet.

 

Ditto. 

 

This says a lot about the people here - lots of respectful, thoughtful posts.

 

 

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

I would just like to say I've very much enjoyed reading the thoughts in this thread. Thanks everyone, this thread could be exhibit A for what is good about the internet.

 

It's sure as sh!t gonna go downhill form here!

[elmatus]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

Ditto. 

 

This says a lot about the people here - lots of respectful, thoughtful posts.

 

 

 

Ah, you suck @brelic -- in the most respectful and thoughtful manner.

Edited April 25, 2019 by elmatus

[brelic]

6 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Ah, you suck @brelic -- in the most respectful and thoughtful manner.

 

 

[elmatus]

To add a proper 0.02$ to this though (and I'm sure this is going to fly right in my face!):
 

Part of the challenge is that systemic inequalities do still exist to a far greater extent than many of us believe. It is still very true that a person's birth overwhelmingly determines their likelihood for success. This is notably true of poverty, but it's also true of things like race, sexuality, and gender. These are all factors we have little to no control over at birth, and yet they are extremely sound predictors of future development and success in life.

 

That isn't to say we haven't made progress; we just haven't made as much as we would all like to believe.

 

Is there a movement to put us all back in boxes? I don't know it ever went away frankly. Whether it's a movement or just a question of the human condition, we are predisposed to doing exactly that regardless of how much we try to temper that tendency via cultural and social influence. I do think there's a concerted effort to enhance things like tribalism for sure, and I think we are moving in a direction where some seem to believe they should never be challenged or feel uncomfortable in life. That will go away though. It seems a cyclical thing to me.

 

I should note that I am Canadian. I won't pretend to fully understand the situation in the US, and I won't comment on it. I also work with disenfranchised youth for a living -- people who frankly were never given a fair shake at life, and who are trying their hardest to make sense of a world that seems hell bent on giving them every challenge imaginable. And yes, these are very closely related to poverty, race, sexuality, and gender even today in 2019. 

 

One of the demographics I've called upon to work with most over the last bit are youth from indigenous communities. The mammoth differences that persist between indigenous and non-indigenous communities where I live are very difficult to overstate. And yet, if you ask people who have very little experience working in these communities, they will very often spew garbage about indigenous people that have no basis in actual reality. They're fictions that have evolved because we have painted these communities as "the other" and treated them so poorly for so very long. We're trying to chip away at these systemic differences now, but many want no part of it at all.

 

Also where I live, we have a very challenging situation based on culture between our two main linguistic groups -- French and English. This divide has existed forever, but it never seems to go away. Even today, being born minority French where I am will lead to a specific set of consequences owing to that status. Is it silly for us to harp on these differences in 2019? Sure, it is. But these are systemic challenges that linger despite wanting to feel great about how far we've come.

 

So it's definitely a tricky situation. On the one hand, we absolutely have come a long way, and it's important to notice that we have come a long way. On the other, we can't let that pride in having come a long way cloud over the fact we still have a good ways to go yet. I think at least part of what happened over the last bit is that folks who are born and must face systemic challenges are being told "well, everything is fine now, so why are you complaining?", and then they realize quickly that everything is most certainly not fine, so things blow up.

 

It's challenging, but I do think it's understandable really from all sides.

Edited April 25, 2019 by elmatus

[King Knut]

14 hours ago, aziz said:

 

this is it, exactly.   there really is a movement afoot today that is seeking to put people back into boxes, to re-establish and reaffirm the hard lines that can be drawn around groups of people, and it is evil.  it advertises itself as progressive and seeking equity (notably NOT equality), but it is reversing decades of progress made by the drift of perspectives towards "we are all just people".  because that drift is real and it has taken us a long way from where we were in the '60s and '70s.  to take away its energy, to re-emphasize things that shouldn't matter, resets a clock.  humans are built to adapt, we have evolved to where we are because we can forget these tribal separations.  we can come together across ethnic and religious and racial boundaries, have done so for thousands of years.  we just have to redefine what we consider "our people".  that only happens when we are allowed to stop seeing groups as "not our people". 

 

things like this are a fatal fly in that ointment:

 

https://www.thecollegefix.com/university-hosts-no-whites-allowed-faculty-and-staff-listening-sessions-to-promote-inclusivity/

 

it just has to stop.  there is no underlying difference between any of us.  we should be seeking the places and moments and opportunities to share, not to create or rebuild divisions.  we aren't there yet, obviously, and that means we have current impacts that have to be recognized and dealt with, but the overall solution is not to highlight our differences or separations.  the solution is, to my mind, to encourage people to be "meh" about all of this.  the solution is not to reflect on how your ancestry informs your current life, it is to realize how little your ancestry should mean, period. 

 

i read "main street" by sinclair lewis several years ago, and it struck home to me in several ways.  first, it is the most boring book that has ever been written.  second, there is a dude in the book that lives on the outskirts of town who is scandinavian.  it is a really big deal in the book, no one will deal with him because he is one of "those".  like, he was a complete pariah, anyone that interacted with him was met with a collective "ewwwww" from the townsfolk, as scandinavians were (apparently) seen as trash.  it struck me because it never occurred to me that there might be a reason to dislike danish or dutch or norwegian people.  they seemed about as milk toast as an ethnic group could be.  except the book (written in 1920) made a HUGE deal out of it.  sure, they were vikings way back, and vikings were assholes, but still, why hold that against a guy hundreds of years after the fact?  but it happened.  the book taught me that it happened for a long time.  until, one day, we forgot to care about whether someone was from norway or not.  and now it just doesn't mean anything.

 

and that is how a society heals from these kinds of divisions.  it forgets about them.  it doesn't honor the divisions, it doesn't make a point of highlighting and elevating one group from another.  it forgets that there is a difference.  

 

we are each individuals, and in a truly "equal" society, we let the individuals represent themselves.  they are what they show themselves to be.  the second we incorporate a gestalt concept of group identity and apply it to individuals is where we are ****ed.  when we override the importance of the individual and insist on generalizations based on intersectional definitions, we have long term problems.  as you say, the second we "aggregate" people into groups, and ascribe a common motive and thought process and life experience to every individual in said group, we are moving ourselves backwards.

 

Isn't it stuff like this that made us all leave the old Phillynews board?  

 

I'm firmly in the middle on this BTW.  It's like that old Simpson's joke, Short answer, yes with an and, long answer no with a but. 

Biologically there are no underlying differences between any of us, but culturally, there are.  We do not grow up the same nor do we live the same when grown up.

 

There is such a thing as privilege contrary to what some folks want to think, but it's not exactly as privileged as other folks want to think.

 

At the dawn of the 80's society was on the road to forgetting about divisions.  Different Strokes to the world!  Then things changed.  Or rather they stopped changing and then they regressed.  We all knew enough to know we should be inclusive, we just forgot to actually do it.  We fumbled on the one yard line.  Well, maybe the 30.  I'm not going to get into the reasons why I believe that is here or now.

 

But it's not just racial.  It seems like we are ready to attack and defend on any issue regardless of what is actually known about it.  Someone's at fault and it's got to be hurting us somehow, so they have to go down!  There are racial divisions and there are real race based problems in our culture.   But there are also a lot of instances of inequality that are perceived as racial, but which might more accurately be categorized as something else.  

 

To bring it all back full circle, everything has turned into either an attack or a defense.  There's no neutral zone play anymore.  No transition game.   It's just get shot on and shoot on them.  

 

We will all fall into that the more we feel threatened.  Doesn't matter by what.  In the end, that kind of game turns into nothing but a lot of icing the puck and it's stressful as hell to play and boring as hell to watch.  Also... it's scrimmage at practice against our own team.  Not the gold medal game against the soviets.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[brelic]

This was an interesting read... 

How Science and Genetics are Reshaping the Race Debate of the 21st Century - Science in the News

 

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

 

Quote

 

However, even if scientists agree that race is, at most, a social construct, any cursory search of the internet reveals that the broader public is not convinced of this. After all, if an Asian person looks so different from a European, how could they not be from distinct groups? Even if most scientists reject the concept of “race” as a biological concept, race exists, undeniably, as a social and political concept.

 

The popular classifications of race are based chiefly on skin color, with other relevant features including height, eyes, and hair. Though these physical differences may appear, on a superficial level, to be very dramatic, they are determined by only a minute portion of the genome: we as a species have been estimated to share 99.9% of our DNA with each other. The few differences that do exist reflect differences in environments and external factors, not core biology.

 

Importantly, the evolution of skin color occurred independently, and did not influence other traits such as mental abilities and behavior. In fact, science has yet to find evidence that there are genetic differences in intelligence  between populations. Ultimately, while there certainly are some biological differences between different populations, these differences are few and superficial. The traits that we do share are far more profound.

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by brelic

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, elmatus said:

It's challenging, but I do think it's understandable really from all sides.

 

It's the desire and patience to try to understand that's lacking right now because that hope for understanding has been pinned to one tribe and the other wants nothing to do with it.  

 

And it's been pinned so heavily to that one tribe that even those within that tribe feel as though only they have a right to sympathy and that everyone must attempt and desire to understand their position.

 

It's a funny thing.  

[OccamsRazor]

I'm taking a knee on this subject....

[Podein25]

29 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I'm taking a knee on this subject....

 

 I see what you did there

[FD19372]

33 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I'm taking a knee on this subject....

Just Do It.

[Poulin20]

A couple more interesting stories in the Inquirer about Kate Smith as I continue to search for more information about who she really was...

 

Apparently she made an address in 1945 attacking racism calling it a disease that eats away at the fibers of peace and called for every church and family to commit to tolerance and understanding.    

 

https://www.philly.com/arts/kate-smith-racist-radio-address-flyers-statue-20190425.html

 

As it was 1945 one has to doubt she was under any pressure to do this in light of the songs in question which further suggests that she may not be the person that she was made out to be and that the Flyers completely botched this (which is par for the course with this team these days).

 

Sam Carchidi then wrote this piece in honor of Kate Smith's 112th birthday which would have been today.

 

https://www.philly.com/flyers/kate-smith-god-bless-america-controversy-songs-flyers-yankees-reaction-20190430.html

 

The fact that these stories/opinions are published in the Inquirer and and not out of some sort of right leaning outlet such a Breitbart or Fox says a lot IMHO.

[FD19372]

This whole Kate Smith "controversy" makes me raise one question. If Ed Snider were alive today, does the statue stay? I say yes.

[Poulin20]

24 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

This whole Kate Smith "controversy" makes me raise one question. If Ed Snider were alive today, does the statue stay? I say yes.

 

I think that if Ed were alive that he would have said that the songs were very concerning and not aligning with the team values and that there would be a through investigation into the matter.  Then there would have been an actual thorough investigation into the matter and in the end I think the statue would have stayed in view of all that is now known.  There may or may not have been a plaque added referencing the songs and the team's disagreement with the lyrics with them but that would be the extent of it.  I think that would have been far and appropriate bringing them to light without completely dragging Ms. Smith through the mud and upsetting paying customers.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Poulin20

[radoran]

2 hours ago, Poulin20 said:

 

I think that if Ed were alive that he would have said that the songs were very concerning and not aligning with the team values and that there would be a through investigation into the matter.  Then there would have been an actual thorough investigation into the matter and in the end I think the statue would have stayed in view of all that is now known.  There may or may not have been a plaque added referencing the songs and the team's disagreement with the lyrics with them but that would be the extent of it.  I think that would have been far and appropriate bringing them to light without completely dragging Ms. Smith through the mud and upsetting paying customers.

 

They made a knee-jerk decision and came out looking like jerks. Surprise!

 

People aren't dragging Paul Robeson through the mud for singing one of the same songs.

 

IMO, the "smoking gun" needed to be much more than lyrics from a couple songs recorded 80 years ago.

[aziz]

23 hours ago, radoran said:

IMO, the "smoking gun" needed to be much more than lyrics from a couple songs recorded 80 years ago.

 

and, from what people in this thread have uncovered, were basically parody, making fun of the kinds of people that actually held the mentioned views.

 

context doesn't matter anymore, though.

[radoran]

23 minutes ago, aziz said:

 

and, from what people in this thread have uncovered, were basically parody, making fun of the kinds of people that actually held the mentioned views.

 

context doesn't matter anymore, though.

 

It does matter. To me, at least.

 

And it's just one more reason why Comcast sucks.

 

As if we need another reason...