Konecny...what's a fair deal ?

[vis]

Just now, AJgoal said:

 

Yeah, the 35% rule is for frontloaded contracts. Backloaded contracts can't have an increase greater than the lowest value of the first few years. I don't remember the exact rule, but that's basically it.

Thanks.

[vis]

3 minutes ago, intheslot said:

Jordon Hall....reporter..

VOORHEES, N.J. — Travis Konecny was nowhere to be seen Friday at Flyers Skate Zone as 2019 training camp got underway.

And the vibes from his general manager and head coach regarding his absence weren't exactly rosy.

"I'm very disappointed that T.K. is not here," Alain Vigneault said after his first practice leading the Flyers. "It's the start of a new era, a new group, I felt that it was very important for everybody to be here. 

"With my time in the NHL, my experience, anybody that falls behind — whether it's injury or in T.K.'s situation not coming to camp — usually it takes them a little bit of time to get back at it, especially at this time with a new coaching staff and new way of doing things. 

"It's unfortunate, but I'm going to work with the players that are here and going to work extremely hard with those players."

The entire offseason has passed and Konecny, an important forward to the Flyers' 2019-20 season, remains a restricted free agent. While it's unclear when he'll be in camp, the intricacies to why the Flyers and his representation can't agree to terms on a new contract became a bit clearer Friday.

GM Chuck Fletcher said the Flyers are willing to be flexible but would "prefer a longer-term deal right now." That certainly makes sense for the Flyers because Konecny is only 22 years old and hasn't fully blossomed yet. Locking up Konecny for more years before he potentially hits a different tier should attract the Flyers.

While a bridge deal might make sense for Konecny's camp, long-term security isn't bad, either. There are risks and rewards to both avenues, for both sides. It'll be about compromising.

"I honestly don't know what to say," Fletcher said. "I've been doing this 25 years, I think we go about it the right way, but we just can't seem to get to the same language on this one.

"Still have a ways to go. I don't really know how to characterize it, both sides are trying. It's been a little quiet recently, so we'll look to find a solution that will break the impasse."

Are the sides differing on years or money?

"Both," Fletcher said. "They have some specific demands with respect to term. We're trying to work with them in that regard. We're a little more flexible, I think we would look at a two- or three-year deal or a longer-term deal. We prefer a longer-term deal right now, so certainly that makes it a little bit more difficult when you narrow the scope of length of term you're negotiating on. We'll continue to work at it."

For now, the Flyers have to practice, prepare and move forward without Konecny. Negotiations can change quickly, but nothing sounds promising at the moment and the Flyers have a preseason game on Monday. There's a new head coach and two new assistant coaches. There's no doubt time is precious in camp.

"It certainly doesn't help him," Fletcher said. "For us, he's a good player and can help our team. For now, you guys hear these clichés all the time, but it's no different than when you get an injury during the season, you don't have a player. We believe we have good depth, we like our depth, there's opportunity now for other players to step up and show what they can do. We'd rather Travis was here, but he's not, so we just have to move on without him and hopefully at some point he gets in."

Not a good way to start the season.  granted, he's not the only kid in this situation. Tons of RFAs out there.  In some ways, I don't blame him for wanting to see how the market shakes out.  But he's not Marner, Tkachuk or Laine.  He can't afford to miss camp.  He needs to learn a new system and, frankly, needs to learn how to play any system.  

 

Honestly, I kind of expect him to sign soon.  Lot of pressure brought to bear above. 

[Howie58]

I agree with some of BSH stuff; there is good young blood in the system. If his ask is unreasonable, sayonara.  His agent is being disrespectful of the need to be around for change of coach...system, and the like.  I suspect the brass is not going to have a long leash.   At this juncture, bring up another youngin.  

 

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2019/9/13/20863526/nhl-philadelphia-flyers-contract-travis-konecny-trade-analysis

 

The O and B will face some big-time cost escalation in coming years if recent picks pan out.  Overpaying Konecny now could really backfire.  

 

Best,

Howie

[OccamsRazor]

 

So what would you trade him for??? But like an injury.....next man up.

 

Not saying i am wanting to just move him but if you were to what comes back???

 

Giroux - Couturier - Farabee

JVR - Hayes - Lindblom

Ratcliffe - Frost - Voracek

Rubtsov - Laughton - Raffl

 

Man i know this wouldn't be the opening lineup....but it could as something @AJgoal some what eluded to i can't remember his exact lineup.

 

But man on paper even without TK and Patrick that is a solid lineup.

[brelic]

Ghost and TK for Marner or Laine... even though we’d just be trading one problem child for another. 

[brelic]

42 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So what would you trade him for??? But like an injury.....next man up.

 

Not saying i am wanting to just move him but if you were to what comes back???

 

Giroux - Couturier - Farabee

JVR - Hayes - Lindblom

Ratcliffe - Frost - Voracek

Rubtsov - Laughton - Raffl

 

Man i know this wouldn't be the opening lineup....but it could as something @AJgoal some what eluded to i can't remember his exact lineup.

 

But man on paper even without TK and Patrick that is a solid lineup.

 

I think that’s the key - on paper it’s a good lineup. But four rookie forwards has a lot of downsides on the ice that translate into OTL and L while they learn the ropes. 

 

I doubt management would be ok with that. 

 

It could totally work out, but the risk is much higher than with known quantities. 

[Lunatic]

If you are looking long term,  and cap management, who is more important to the Flyers, Sanheim or Konecny? I would argue that Sanheim is more important to the Flyers long-term future than Konecny. Given this , why should Konecny receive more than Sanheim?

[Gee Bee]

5 hours ago, vis said:

Not a good way to start the season.  granted, he's not the only kid in this situation. Tons of RFAs out there.  In some ways, I don't blame him for wanting to see how the market shakes out.  But he's not Marner, Tkachuk or Laine.  He can't afford to miss camp.  He needs to learn a new system and, frankly, needs to learn how to play any system.  

 

Honestly, I kind of expect him to sign soon.  Lot of pressure brought to bear above. 

I hope you are correct that  He is certainly not the type of player that can go into the season cold. He needs to sign now 

[vis]

12 hours ago, Gee Bee said:

I hope you are correct that  He is certainly not the type of player that can go into the season cold. He needs to sign now 

I have no insight at all, other than that a rational player - not solely focused on $$ - would cut the crap.  Marner did.  Konecny ain’t Marner.  

[Podein25]

@vis

 

You had me at "I have no insight." 

[CoachX]

I find this TK issue amusing. For weeks we've been focused on Ivan , and I, for one, thought TK was being held up by that. When IP signed, I assumed all it would take is writing in the amount based on whats left over

If TK thinks this is the best way to go, he's a dumbass. There are too many good young players pushing. He should get his **** together and sign asap. If not, move on. If a trade is there, make it!

[brelic]

Not sure what TK is looking for. Apparently Boeser rejected a 6yr/$42M deal ($7M per AAV). 

 

He and TK have similar stats, with the edge going to Boeser. Is that the kind of contract he's looking for?

 

In the end, he just doesn't have the same leverage over the Flyers as Provorov did.

 

 

[CoachX]

He has no leverage at all. With the young kids making the push behind him, he's replaceable. Whats hes doing is stupid.

[mojo1917]

24 minutes ago, brelic said:

Not sure what TK is looking for. Apparently Boeser rejected a 6yr/$42M deal ($7M per AAV). 

 

He and TK have similar stats, with the edge going to Boeser. Is that the kind of contract he's looking for?

 

In the end, he just doesn't have the same leverage over the Flyers as Provorov did.

 

 

Seems like he's getting some not so great advice.  Kid has never seemed greedy to me or "in it for the benjamins". 

I understand wanting to get paid,  he could be a lynch pin on a team that could be good for the rest of his career.  

He's hurting his chances to be "that player" here. 

[Mad Dog]

2 minutes ago, CoachX said:

He has no leverage at all. With the young kids making the push behind him, he's replaceable. Whats hes doing is stupid.

 

I echo that sentiment.  He needs to be on the ice at this point in his career.  He is not doing himself any favors.  

[brelic]

3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Seems like he's getting some not so great advice.  Kid has never seemed greedy to me or "in it for the benjamins". 

I understand wanting to get paid,  he could be a lynch pin on a team that could be good for the rest of his career.  

He's hurting his chances to be "that player" here. 

 

Agree that he doesn't seem like the 'greedy' type, but he does seem like the kind of guy that doesn't back down very easily. Love that about his on-ice game. Kind of a double edged sword though!

 

EDIT: Is double-edged sword redundant? Can't we just say "it's like a sword"? Have you ever seen a single-edged sword? Wouldn't that just be a knife?

Edited September 16, 2019 by brelic

[elmatus]

Just now, brelic said:

 

Agree that he doesn't seem like the 'greedy' type, but he does seem like the kind of guy that doesn't back down very easily. Love that about his on-ice game. Kind of a double edged sword though!

 

Also, depending on his agent, TK may not be the main issue here. 

[brelic]

6 minutes ago, CoachX said:

He has no leverage at all. With the young kids making the push behind him, he's replaceable. Whats hes doing is stupid.

 

I understand in the case of Marner and guys like him that produce at elite levels.

 

TK is not that. 

[mojo1917]

4 minutes ago, brelic said:

Have you ever seen a single-edged sword? Wouldn't that just be a knife?

yes, actually, my years playing drums in a pipe band have given me insight into the world of bronze age weapons.

sadly this information has stuck in my brain, the ability to "sweep arpeggios", not so much....so a sabre, a katana, a scimtar  are all technically single edged weapons. 

Our band's uniforms consisted of a skein-dubh and a dirk, in order to find such pieces one had to visit medieval sword shoppes and celtic tree worshiping libraries. I was doing this before e-commerce really became a "thing".  Met some freaky celtic girls though, so it wasn't all for naught. 

 

Good point about TK's  lack of back down, I agree it isn't serving him well at this time.

[AJgoal]

18 minutes ago, brelic said:

EDIT: Is double-edged sword redundant? Can't we just say "it's like a sword"? Have you ever seen a single-edged sword? Wouldn't that just be a knife?

 

[brelic]

@AJgoal @mojo1917

 

Thanks guys! 10:30am here and I've already learned something new

 

My day is successful.

[Podein25]

Huh

[brelic]

23 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

Huh

 

I have my Chrome home page set to a random wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random) so I have that feeling every morning lol. 

 

Honestly, I end up down some pretty interesting rabbit holes.

 

 

[CoachX]

3 hours ago, brelic said:

 

Agree that he doesn't seem like the 'greedy' type, but he does seem like the kind of guy that doesn't back down very easily. Love that about his on-ice game. Kind of a double edged sword though!

 

EDIT: Is double-edged sword redundant? Can't we just say "it's like a sword"? Have you ever seen a single-edged sword? Wouldn't that just be a knife?

Called a Saber

[CoachX]

3 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

Also, depending on his agent, TK may not be the main issue here. 

Agent speaks for the player.  Ive always hated this argument.  Its a cop out

 

If the agent isnt doing what the client wants, FIRE HIS ASS