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4Check

Wild seeking Top 6 Center

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That's funny you mention it.  Kunin has been a lot better on his draws most recently.  Still, he's probably not a Top 6 center solution.  To that I'd say Quinton Byfield...

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51 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

That's funny you mention it.  Kunin has been a lot better on his draws most recently.  Still, he's probably not a Top 6 center solution.  To that I'd say Quinton Byfield...

Who? Is he a player or a playright?

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15 hours ago, Icechipper said:

Who? Is he a player or a playright?

 

He's an athletic, 6'4" center who is probably going to go in the Top 5 in the draft this summer.  

 

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20 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

That's funny you mention it.  Kunin has been a lot better on his draws most recently.  Still, he's probably not a Top 6 center solution.  To that I'd say Quinton Byfield...

 

I wonder if Der Kapitan works with any of these guys on their faceoffs trying to help them get better or if that's beneath him...

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Don Cherry says Finlanders are ******* on the faceoff and should be required to wear the poppy on their sweater when playing in Canada.........OK OK just making a little joke there. I am American whose grandparents emigrated to the Red River Valley from Ontario. If Trump sees this I may be deported to Canada......

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1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I wonder if Der Kapitan works with any of these guys on their faceoffs trying to help them get better or if that's beneath him...

 

Not sure.  He doesn't seem like a helper kind of a guy to me.   

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3 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I wonder if Der Kapitan works with any of these guys on their faceoffs trying to help them get better or if that's beneath him...

Since it's his last season...*Barring a nightmare extension*...You'd think he'd like to help. 

No worries about somebody taking your job.

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I think I remember (but don't quote me on this) that Koivu once said in an interview something like that he's happy to help out when asked. I wish I'd remember this - now it might be that the quote is all wrong, and not even Koivu in case. But anyways, I'm pretty sure from what we see on ice, bench and what we read, that Koivu's attitude is that he'll help, but the guy who needs help, needs to ask. Which I think is bs. The vets should be very active in engaging the younger players. To the point that help is force fed to those younger players who think that they can do it all by themselves.

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8 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

I think I remember (but don't quote me on this) that Koivu once said in an interview something like that he's happy to help out when asked. I wish I'd remember this - now it might be that the quote is all wrong, and not even Koivu in case. But anyways, I'm pretty sure from what we see on ice, bench and what we read, that Koivu's attitude is that he'll help, but the guy who needs help, needs to ask. Which I think is bs. The vets should be very active in engaging the younger players. To the point that help is force fed to those younger players who think that they can do it all by themselves.

 

This sounds about right. There was an article on Matt Cullen about how he was always going over to the younger players on the Wild and giving them little tips and things to watch for and what to do in certain situations. I think by comparison they mentioned Koivu who will help the younger players, but they have to go to him and ask for help, he wouldn't go to a younger player and say "Hey, when your guy does this, instead of doing that, try doing this instead..."

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11 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

 

This sounds about right. There was an article on Matt Cullen about how he was always going over to the younger players on the Wild and giving them little tips and things to watch for and what to do in certain situations. I think by comparison they mentioned Koivu who will help the younger players, but they have to go to him and ask for help, he wouldn't go to a younger player and say "Hey, when your guy does this, instead of doing that, try doing this instead..."

 

I seem to remember reading an article from some years ago about how Koivu took Granlund under his wing when Granny first got to North America. Maybe it was a fellow countryman thing...not sure.
Granlund had trouble at first with the transition from the larger rink size and speed at which things happen on the ice here, and Koivu not only helped ease him in with the North American game, but also with just life in general as an NHL'er.

I wonder if that is part of the reason Granlund is seemingly so lost after the trade to Nashville.
I think that trade may have been a shock to the young man, and he IS a professional that has to adapt to wherever he goes, especially being as talented as he is.... but wow...just seems like all of a sudden, Granlund has forgotten how to play hockey since being moved over to the Preds.

I don't doubt Koivu is helpful as a mentor type to younger players...now whether he actively seeks them out or just waits to be asked, only those in the locker room know for sure.

I too have heard the stories about how Cullen went out of his way, and that is fantastic...one of the reasons I never minded him on the team even well past his prime years...but each vet goes about their business differently, and some young guys may not even WANT a vet poking too much into their business, and then it falls on that same young player to seek help or advice if he really needs it.

Different strokes and all that...

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Granny's modus operandi was to try to slow the game down. When successful his style works nicely for a slow team. The problem is that modern teams are fast, and win by speed, and slowing down the game is near impossible with the rule changes and the speed of modern teams. And in the playoffs it's impossible. Granny was a perfect fit for an obsolent team like the Wild, and his 70 point season might well be the best result he's ever going to achieve.

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2 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

Granny's modus operandi was to try to slow the game down. When successful his style works nicely for a slow team. The problem is that modern teams are fast, and win by speed, and slowing down the game is near impossible with the rule changes and the speed of modern teams. And in the playoffs it's impossible. Granny was a perfect fit for an obsolent team like the Wild, and his 70 point season might well be the best result he's ever going to achieve.

We seem to have watched different games... slow the game down?! 🤨

 

He carried the puck and was the first to enter the zone. If he didn't play with Koivu, he was almost always the first forward in his line to help out the D on counterattacks. Not some gd Vanek or Heatley who were only fast to enter the offensive blue line.

 

Granlund's 69 points in 2016-17 was a rare feat. Staal had 76 points a year later and Koivu had 71 points in 2009-2010, Gaborik 83 way back in 2007-2008, Rolston 79 in 2005-2006. And while I skim through the stats, I see Granny's 69 point season is the 5th best in the Wild's history. Even his 67 point season is very high up the ranks.

 

To this date the Wild has paid Parise over $60 mil. yet he's never accumulated 69 points in the Wild jersey. Even Granlund's second best season, 67 points, is more than Parise has ever achieved. Is Parise a modern player in a modern team?

 

Trading Granlund hurt this team, a lot. I don't get your point of trying to paint a picture, a false narrative, of Granlund like he was the reason this team's offense sucked.

 

Well, it sure has and still does for reasons unrelated to Granlund.

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I agree.
Granlund saw steady improvement every year he was on the team.
 

I also don't know about "slowing the game down", unless that means he tried to be playmaker a bit too much at times, but seems to me, he loved playing the north-south game and still tried to help out on defense when and if he could.

His trade counterpart, Fiala, other than loving the offense, doesn't seem to be nearly as good as Granny in other aspects.
Yes, he is younger, but good lord, those turnovers and decisions under pressure....

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38 minutes ago, Hockey-78 said:

We seem to have watched different games... slow the game down?! 🤨

 

He carried the puck and was the first to enter the zone. If he didn't play with Koivu, he was almost always the first forward in his line to help out the D on counterattacks. Not some gd Vanek or Heatley who were only fast to enter the offensive blue line.

 

Granlund's 69 points in 2016-17 was a rare feat. Staal had 76 points a year later and Koivu had 71 points in 2009-2010, Gaborik 83 way back in 2007-2008, Rolston 79 in 2005-2006. And while I skim through the stats, I see Granny's 69 point season is the 5th best in the Wild's history. Even his 67 point season is very high up the ranks.

 

To this date the Wild has paid Parise over $60 mil. yet he's never accumulated 69 points in the Wild jersey. Even Granlund's second best season, 67 points, is more than Parise has ever achieved. Is Parise a modern player in a modern team?

 

Trading Granlund hurt this team, a lot. I don't get your point of trying to paint a picture, a false narrative, of Granlund like he was the reason this team's offense sucked.

 

Well, it sure has and still does for reasons unrelated to Granlund.

Spot on.  There are too many like skill players on the Preds, so the reliance upon Granlund's capabilities seems to be much less.  To that point, he is not an automatic for premier TOI.  Without this, I think he is losing his confidence.

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Or as a playmaker...he's dependent upon others to bury his passes to put up the points he did.  If those players aren't scoring on his passes then his impact is greatly reduced.  Its the life of a playmaker.  

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I think I probably haven't really managed to write clearly what I meant. It's the problem of writing about difficult things in a foreign language. By slowing the game down I mean what Granny used to do after crossing the blue line. He would slow down, deliberately, and let the opposition's checkers get nearer. Sometimes even two opponents went after him at the same time. That created an imbalance that could be utilised by his team mates. Being a great passer he could feed his team mates, even under pressure. By slowing down  after the blue line he created time and space for the slower guys like Parise or Koivu to come to the scoring areas. In military terms he fixed the enemy, in order to let other units to get in position. As we saw in multiple playoffs series it's not a way to success in the NHL. In a olympic size rink, it can be a different story.

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57 minutes ago, lynxrattle said:

I think I probably haven't really managed to write clearly what I meant. It's the problem of writing about difficult things in a foreign language. By slowing the game down I mean what Granny used to do after crossing the blue line. He would slow down, deliberately, and let the opposition's checkers get nearer. Sometimes even two opponents went after him at the same time. That created an imbalance that could be utilised by his team mates. Being a great passer he could feed his team mates, even under pressure. By slowing down  after the blue line he created time and space for the slower guys like Parise or Koivu to come to the scoring areas. In military terms he fixed the enemy, in order to let other units to get in position. As we saw in multiple playoffs series it's not a way to success in the NHL. In a olympic size rink, it can be a different story.

I get what you are saying (and I did prior - he slows to make plays and creates with slower line-mates, or speeds up for Zucker).  I give you much credit if English is not your first language - I would never have known (aside from the Finland location).  Awesome that you can carry-on in our English conversations!

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9 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

I think I probably haven't really managed to write clearly what I meant. It's the problem of writing about difficult things in a foreign language. By slowing the game down I mean what Granny used to do after crossing the blue line. He would slow down, deliberately, and let the opposition's checkers get nearer. Sometimes even two opponents went after him at the same time. That created an imbalance that could be utilised by his team mates. Being a great passer he could feed his team mates, even under pressure. By slowing down  after the blue line he created time and space for the slower guys like Parise or Koivu to come to the scoring areas. In military terms he fixed the enemy, in order to let other units to get in position. As we saw in multiple playoffs series it's not a way to success in the NHL. In a olympic size rink, it can be a different story.

 

No doubt, its why he often did some of his best work on the power play where he often had more time and space.  Same thing in international play on Olympic sized rinks as you stated.  However, Granlund just may not be a great fit in Nashville.  The good thing for Nashville, if they don't like him...they can trade him or let him walk.  Its really up to Granlund to prove he's worth spending some $$$ on.  

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To be honest and I’ll probably get crap for this but.. if he stinks it up in Nashville and is going to sign for cheap somewhere..l like him enough as a player to bring him back for a year or two once Koivu is out.. as long as he’s getting 3rd liner money and not expected to be our #1 or #2 center. He could thrive as a 3rd line Center or wing with the right line mates that can bury their chances and he can fill in occasionally on line 2 if there are injuries. The big negatives I always had with him here were the lofty expectations and big cap hit.

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20 minutes ago, Gnarkill said:

To be honest and I’ll probably get crap for this but.. if he stinks it up in Nashville and is going to sign for cheap somewhere..l like him enough as a player to bring him back for a year or two once Koivu is out.. as long as he’s getting 3rd liner money and not expected to be our #1 or #2 center. He could thrive as a 3rd line Center or wing with the right line mates that can bury their chances and he can fill in occasionally on line 2 if there are injuries. The big negatives I always had with him here were the lofty expectations and big cap hit.

3rd line money and a short contract, why not? Our team is not getting fast enough to really compete in a few years, and his style would help our vets. Still, I'd like to see our prospects in the third line. Sturm for example. They say they want to give him TOI in Iowa. Well, why not give him TOI in Minnesota?

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45 minutes ago, Gnarkill said:

To be honest and I’ll probably get crap for this but.. if he stinks it up in Nashville and is going to sign for cheap somewhere..l like him enough as a player to bring him back for a year or two once Koivu is out.. as long as he’s getting 3rd liner money and not expected to be our #1 or #2 center. He could thrive as a 3rd line Center or wing with the right line mates that can bury their chances and he can fill in occasionally on line 2 if there are injuries. The big negatives I always had with him here were the lofty expectations and big cap hit.

 

No way Granlund takes 3rd line money.  Even if he has a bad season.  I am kind of indifferent about the idea of bringing him back, but he's more likely to fit on this club than some of the others we've brought in over the years.  

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    • 2
      Post
      Well, if you want to add to your already abundant collection of mid 30's age centers.  Personally, I think the Wild need to get younger.  If it was my druthers, they wouldn't add a center older than 26, younger if possible.
    • 2
      Post
      I think kunin would get a better look as a 2C if he could figure out how to win more than 47% of his faceoffs. Until someone, anyone, can win faceoffs reliably we are stuck with koivu.
    • 2
      Post
      Don Cherry says Finlanders are ******* on the faceoff and should be required to wear the poppy on their sweater when playing in Canada.........OK OK just making a little joke there. I am American whose grandparents emigrated to the Red River Valley from Ontario. If Trump sees this I may be deported to Canada......
    • 1
      Post
      If true this means: 1) Victor Rask is not a $4 million center. 2) Erickson Ek has topped out as a No. 3 center. 3) Parise doesn't want to play center. But could. 4) Koivu may never be 100 % again 5) Iowa can't develop centers but Nico Sturm going there anyway.
    • 1
      Post
      To the first 3 points...duh.  Second, its not Iowa's fault for not developing centers.  Iowa hasn't been able to keep many quality Wild prospects there for very long before they're called up to play in a bottom 6 role with the big club.  Sturm should be with the big club, but we'll probably try to soldier on with Rask in that role.     Good luck to Guerin to try to find a Top 6 center.  I don't think it will be easy and I'm afraid how steep the price will be at this point in the season
    • 1
      Post
      We seem to have watched different games... slow the game down?! 🤨   He carried the puck and was the first to enter the zone. If he didn't play with Koivu, he was almost always the first forward in his line to help out the D on counterattacks. Not some gd Vanek or Heatley who were only fast to enter the offensive blue line.   Granlund's 69 points in 2016-17 was a rare feat. Staal had 76 points a year later and Koivu had 71 points in 2009-2010, Gaborik 83 way back in 2007-2008,

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