Game 2: Devils at Flyers; 10/9/19 @ 7:30 PM

[flyercanuck]

19 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

 

I do think there's something to be said for not rushing kids into the league. And current poster child Nolan Patrick was also a Hextall decision...

 

 I know....you get people...THE SAME PEOPLE...arguing BOTH ways.

 

 Why can't we bring players up faster than Hextall wanted to????

 

 Why didn't they leave Patrick down longer???

 

 I'd rather leave them down too long than bring them up too early.

[RonJeremy]

4 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Bro, I think you're going to have to get used to this.  

Seems to me, the AV brand of "compete" means to win the puck, I don't think he gives a 2 hoots about the rough stuff.

If the team wins IDGAF about the goon business either, win the puck, win using pressure everywhere, win with skating. 

This is where the league has been going, there can still be toughness in that game, look at all the goons St Louis dresses.... I think that's where the Flyers are headed, I won't mind it if they win. 

I don't think this team is easy to play against and that suits me just fine. 

Im not saying we need to dress any goons, but we could use a couple of Wayne Simmonds type of guys to keep the other team honest. JVR, Voracek and Hayes are all big, but they are not gonna deter a guy like Wood or Marchand.  There is still intimidation and cheap shots in the NHL. Hopefully Morin and eventually Allison can be our tough guys but with skill.

[mojo1917]

57 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 Why didn't they leave Patrick down longer???

Well this take has the clarity of hindsight.

 

plus they traded Schenn once they got that sweet #2 lottery ball... I guess we could be looking at some more Boyd Gordon or middling scrub sold to us as a "good Flyers type hockey player, that flew under the radar" ?

Scouting is hard, determining which of the ubertalented 18 year old boys will turn into solid pros as men is as much art as science. 

Patrick was kind of a man child playing for Brandon, though I do agree that baking a kid for too long in the A or where ever never seemed to hurt them.

 

Off the topic just a little, I hope the young fella gets healthy because the talent is there.

[pilldoc]

I just watched the game. (I DVR'd since I was not home last night).  All I can say is what a game.  First impressions:

 

1) holy save batman!  That save back when the Devils had a 5-3 was one of the best I have ever seen.

2) they seemed to attack the net more and by taking shots closer to the goalie

3) they were much more defensive responsible.

4) even when they where up 4-0 ...they kept attacking.  last year they would have gone into a defensive shell.

5) they played a much more up tempo game than I have seen in years.

 

Yeah ... agree with all above.....this is by far one of the best games they have played in years ......

 

Now the million dollar question ...can they keep it up!

 

[ruxpin]

26 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

I just watched the game. (I DVR'd since I was not home last night).  All I can say is what a game.  First impressions:

 

1) holy save batman!  That save back when the Devils had a 5-3 was one of the best I have ever seen.

2) they seemed to attack the net more and by taking shots closer to the goalie

3) they were much more defensive responsible.

4) even when they where up 4-0 ...they kept attacking.  last year they would have gone into a defensive shell.

5) they played a much more up tempo game than I have seen in years.

 

Yeah ... agree with all above.....this is by far one of the best games they have played in years ......

 

Now the million dollar question ...can they keep it up!

 

 

Agree with the entire post.   My take was much the same.

 

I bolded the line because ordinarily that would be real hyperbole or recency-bias, right?    But watching it live I really said outloud "holy ####!"  I made my wife come in to "see one of the best saves I have ever seen."

 

Some of this is colored, of course, by how crap our goaltending has been since I can remember.  I remember Boucher swimming around in the playoffs against I forget who and making a pretty miraculous save, but that one was "stick as much out as possible and hope it hits something."   This Hart save was clearly anticipation, quickness, reflexes, and knocked one hell of a shot out of the air like he was playing ping pong.  Simply incredible.  I don't think your post or mine is in any way overstating that save.  

 

This much is sure:   One of the best saves ever NOT made against the Flyers.

[pilldoc]

39 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

But watching it live I really said outloud "holy ####!"  I made my wife come in to "see one of the best saves I have ever seen."

 

Dispatcher: 911, Whats your emergency?

Taylor Hall: Hello, I'd like to report a robbery !!!

[elmatus]

It was definitely a more up tempo style of game than what we've been watching these last few years. I think coaching is probably the biggest reason for that. I do hope they can keep playing at this pace and find ways to win against better teams than the Devils. I think they can. They certainly have the talent for it. It's just going to take me a bit more than one game to make that kind of assessment.

 

Among the players that really stood out to me was Provo. I mean, if Provo can play the way he did in this game throughout the full season, I think we're all going to be very happy with the outcome. He played like a true franchise dman imo on both sides of the ice. Is that because of Niskanen? I don't know. Certainly, I think Niskanen gives him more freedom to pinch -- which he did amazingly well. I also like to think he's just maturing as a player, which really would seem like the most likely of all possibilities. Can he keep it up? Who knows. But it was pretty great to watch in this game anyway.

 

Obviously Hart was also a show stopper. I fully expect we'll see some ups and downs with him given the pressure of his role and his inexperience, but games like this are great for showing his high end potential. I'll take as many of these as I can get.

 

Among the forward corps, I really was pretty impressed with a good number of players. Even the bottom six with it's Raffls -- who has always been solid at everything but scoring really -- and Twarynskis -- the highlight of the preseason. A lot of folks just seemed to be right in the mix all the time. Again, I really think a good measure of this is the coaching. 

 

To poke at what @brelic said about Hextall, I don't think we could possibly understate the negative effect Hakstol had on the team in his tenure. Games like this one make it very apparent how largely incompetent Hak was as a bench boss.

Edited October 11, 2019 by elmatus

[radoran]

11 hours ago, elmatus said:

I don't think we could possibly understate the negative effect Hakstol had on the team in his tenure.

 

100% on board with this. Hackstol's "system" (such as it was) was simply terrible.

 

I think the presence of three NHL coaches with head coaching experience is evident.

 

Also, too, Hextall certainly deserves the criticism for sticking with Hackstol.

[Digityman]

Am I the only one that's not willing to say franchise goalie yet?   Definitely hope I'm wrong but I'm so jaded and he is so young that I just can't do it yet.  

 

Wednesday's game was a complete effort by the whole team and while he made 1 or 2 great saves, the rest were what non-goalie starved fans would expect their goalie to save.  I fear (again, hopefully wrong) that we as fans are loading so much hope on Hart that if he doesn't hit elite status, we will consider him a bust even though he might be a completely serviceable NHL goalie in the end.  

[mojo1917]

14 minutes ago, Digityman said:

Am I the only one that's not willing to say franchise goalie yet?   Definitely hope I'm wrong but I'm so jaded and he is so young that I just can't do it yet.  

 

Wednesday's game was a complete effort by the whole team and while he made 1 or 2 great saves, the rest were what non-goalie starved fans would expect their goalie to save.  I fear (again, hopefully wrong) that we as fans are loading so much hope on Hart that if he doesn't hit elite status, we will consider him a bust even though he might be a completely serviceable NHL goalie in the end.  

yes ?

 

 

I believe @flyercanuck used to say "in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king" 

We've been watching sub-par goalie play for a long time, so would we know what good goalie play is ?

Folks....present company included were pretty happy with Steve Mason until he talked his way out of town, he was alright for much of his time here.  For certain I'm glad he's gone and i think now out of the league, but while he was here he was not terrible.  And that's the best we've done in 20 years.

 

Hart's a young guy sure, hockey is increasingly becoming a young man's game though, so I don't see why the Flyer's young men should be excluded when we think about their potential for success.  When young guys are ready they're ready, he hasn't really shown he's "not ready".  He's been top tier at every level, what other than injury would prevent him from reaching the top tier at the NHL ?

 

The past pedigree is there, the current eyeball test says the kid has talent. He's mature beyond his 21 years...why not have some hope ?

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by mojo1917

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, Digityman said:

Am I the only one that's not willing to say franchise goalie yet?   Definitely hope I'm wrong but I'm so jaded and he is so young that I just can't do it yet.  

 

No. Which is one of the reasons I re-posted the note about his achievement being the first since Steve Mason.

 

Franchise goalies are made by sustained excellence over time.

 

I'm on the bandwagon because I believe he can do it. But, like the rest of the team, he has to go out and actually do it.

[mojo1917]

15 minutes ago, radoran said:

100% on board with this. Hackstol's "system" (such as it was) was simply terrible.

 

He coached guys who were already predisposed to play on the perimeter to stay there. 

I'm glad he's gone. 

[elmatus]

39 minutes ago, Digityman said:

Am I the only one that's not willing to say franchise goalie yet?

 

Nah, I'm with you. I am in the cautiously optimistic camp with regards to Hart. That said, he is easily better than our recent cast of characters. I really don't think that's disputable even in this relatively small sample size. Part of that of course is that his predecessors were very bad, so the bar is pretty low. Still, he shows flashes of brilliance that I haven't seen in the O&B in a very very long time. Is that franchise level? I don't know. But it's not nothing for sure.

 

Also, I do think a lot can be said about a system rather than just a goalie. Sure, there are truly elite goalies who manage to have great careers regardless of the teams in front of them, but most goalies we consider elite in hindsight really had the benefit of very good defensive corps and solid coaching systems. Hopefully we can get all of that to click at least somewhat this year, and then build on whatever we get for next.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, Digityman said:

the rest were what non-goalie starved fans would expect their goalie to save.

 

That's all I'm asking for.

The big save at the right time is bonus.   In this case, the 5-on-3 save against Hall launched the team, but that's bonus and wont happen every night.   I'm just asking for a goalie that saves what the team/fans expect their goalie to save.

 

Because we haven't had that in quite awhile, and the crap goal once or twice per game is a back-breaker.

 

I've been a Flyers fan since the early 70s.  

I get your cautious optimism.  Last time I was this excited about a Flyers' goalie, he bought himself a Porsche.

[mojo1917]

Matt Murray is all i'm saying.

I think Hart is just as good if not better than Murray when he's on top of his game. 

Murray was a rookie when he backstopped a winner

Binnington, well traveled but a rookie none the less spurred a turn around in St Louis. 

Hart did it here with Andrew MacDonald playing 18 minutes a night in front of him.

Hart is as good as both those guys. The team is better now. 

 

yes he must do it over time, but he's doing "the thing" right now and it's glorious.

 

Edit: I mean Hart is as good as Murray when Murray is on top of his game

Edited October 11, 2019 by mojo1917

[jammer2]

A few things Hart does lead me to believe he is the real deal. His side to side movement is elite. His anticipation is elite. His reflexes are elite. Like every successful goalie he needs quick zone exits consistently and minimal second and third chances. He seems to have the type of skill set to take care of the stuff he can control...and that is all I ask.

 

The rest lies of the feet of Fletch and V to surround with players and a system that make life easier on him. I LOVE the way he watches the puck. He is rarely out of position after the first quick pass because his instincts naturally cheat to the guy he knows is getting the puck...add in elite reflexes to that package and you have the beginning of something special.

Edited October 11, 2019 by jammer2

[brelic]

2 hours ago, Digityman said:

I fear (again, hopefully wrong) that we as fans are loading so much hope on Hart that if he doesn't hit elite status, we will consider him a bust even though he might be a completely serviceable NHL goalie in the end.

 

Oh, it's probably inevitable that he will have struggles in his career. Just about all players do. Remember when everyone wanted to trade Giroux when he had his 50-some point season? 

 

And, Philly being Philly, it's probably inevitable that fans will turn on Hart when he does struggle. 

 

But in the long-view, I truly believe he will be a top level goaltender for his career.

[intheslot]

Hockey is a team game ..It takes everyone on the ice to play his part.

 Hart has to come up with two or three big saves in a game .

  It helps to be lucky,and Good..

Team efforts are needed every night .

Its the cheesey goals that dflate a team ..

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by intheslot
added letters

[brelic]

5 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

A few things Hart does lead me to believe he is the real deal. His side to side movement is elite. His anticipation is elite. His reflexes are elite. Like every successful goalie he needs quick zone exits consistently and minimal second and third chances. He seems to have the type of skill set to take care of the stuff he can control...and that is all I ask.

 

The rest lies of the feet of Fletch and V to surround with players and a system that make life easier on him. I LOVE the way he watches the puck. He is rarely out of position after the first quick pass because his instincts naturally cheat to the guy he knows is getting the puck...add in elite reflexes to that package and you have the beginning of something special.

 

Can you imagine what he must have been feeling after that save, and having the entire building erupt to cheer him on? Can you imagine how the team felt watching him make that save, and then killing off the 3 on 5 to end the period? The building was ELECTRIC and that's the kind of atmosphere that has been sorely lacking since pre-Hextall. Probably since early in Homer's tenure. (The only game in recent memory that felt like that was Hart's debut against Nashville).

 

Honestly, I said it earlier in the thread, but damn, that whole game - the 2nd period in particular - felt like a playoff game. 

 

The PP had puck movement I haven't seen from the Flyers in a LONG time. Both PP units, actually.

 

The goalie was en fuego. 

 

The team dominated every aspect of the game. 

 

That's some great early success for them to build on, and to make them believers in AV, the coaching staff, and most importantly, in each other.

 

 

[jammer2]

32 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Can you imagine what he must have been feeling after that save, and having the entire building erupt to cheer him on? Can you imagine how the team felt watching him make that save, and then killing off the 3 on 5 to end the period? The building was ELECTRIC and that's the kind of atmosphere that has been sorely lacking since pre-Hextall. Probably since early in Homer's tenure. (The only game in recent memory that felt like that was Hart's debut against Nashville).

 

Honestly, I said it earlier in the thread, but damn, that whole game - the 2nd period in particular - felt like a playoff game. 

 

The PP had puck movement I haven't seen from the Flyers in a LONG time. Both PP units, actually.

 

The goalie was en fuego. 

 

The team dominated every aspect of the game. 

 

That's some great early success for them to build on, and to make them believers in AV, the coaching staff, and most importantly, in each other.

 

 

Totally agree bre. Vs job is to provide leadership and instill confidence in the players in his way of doing things...esp early in his tenure. Done and done. Love the way he says " the vets WILL step up" and we WILL get better at that etc. Haks time felt so rudderless...now we have a take charge dude who commands respect and demands results...with a resume that shows it works ie SCF appearances. It's like night and day.

  V is not quite as standoffish as fonzie.. but these types inevitably get froze out when the discipline and threats get old...BUT the trick is to win before that happens. We should have a nice 2-4 yr run before that happens...thus, the window opens at least from a coaching standpoint. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by jammer2

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, Digityman said:

Am I the only one that's not willing to say franchise goalie yet?   Definitely hope I'm wrong but I'm so jaded and he is so young that I just can't do it yet.  

 

Wednesday's game was a complete effort by the whole team and while he made 1 or 2 great saves, the rest were what non-goalie starved fans would expect their goalie to save.  I fear (again, hopefully wrong) that we as fans are loading so much hope on Hart that if he doesn't hit elite status, we will consider him a bust even though he might be a completely serviceable NHL goalie in the end.  

 

 I don't think he's a "franchise goalie" yet. He looks like he could be. He already has the pedigree. And at barely 21 years of age...young by NHL goalie standards, he sure doesn't look out of place. 

 

 I agree it takes a team, not just a goalie. I agree he only made 1 or 2 "great saves'''...which is 1 or 2 more than we usually get.  And I agree the rest were saves that most teams fans would expect. Just not what Flyer fans expect after 3 decades of wtf?

 

 Hart was a 2nd round pick...he wasn't taken 1st overall. I think, barring a complete meltdown, which he's NEVER done in his career, he'll end up being at worst an above average NHL goalie. I'll take that, any more is gravy.

 

 And if some of Hextalls other defensive acquisitions namedly Provorov/Sanheim/Myers/Zamula/Wylie/St'Ivany/Ginning etc can help him out then he should be even better off. Throw in Cam York/Gostisbehere/Morin/Niskanen/Braun and the likes of Couturier/Hayes/Raffl/Twarynski and soon to be Farabee and he should be getting lots of help.

[ruxpin]

36 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 I don't think he's a "franchise goalie" yet

 

Yeah, he's played what, 30 games max?   If that?   Can't anoint him "franchise goalie," but it's great to watch right now.

 

Like you said, above average would suffice.

[MaineFlyFan]

You all should of heard Kevin Weeks on NHL tonight (or on the fly) literally GUSHING about Hart. He called that save, AND I QUOTE, "One of the BEST saves I have EVER SEEN in my life"......says the guy who sat on the bench watching Broduer play night after night....and he said it more than once and "stood by it"....

 

He had a really nice 5 minute piece on why that save was the result of uncanny vision, reading the play, NOT over committing to any of the THREE guys he had to "respect" on that break, and sound positioning.... and MUCH less about luck.

 

When I hear an actual NHL Goaltender, and current hockey analyst, speak like that about a goalie...well, I take a LOT more stock in HIS opinion than any of you "keyboard jockeys"....

 

Yup....I'm a believer. Kid is gonna go on to be a GREAT goalie in this league (barring an injury or gifted sports car)....

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by MaineFlyFan

[pilldoc]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Last time I was this excited about a Flyers' goalie, he bought himself a Porsche

 

Is it in Hart's contract forbidding him to by super fast cars ....asking for a friend

[pilldoc]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

Can you imagine what he must have been feeling after that save, and having the entire building erupt to cheer him on? Can you imagine how the team felt watching him make that save, and then killing off the 3 on 5 to end the period? The building was ELECTRIC and that's the kind of atmosphere that has been sorely lacking since pre-Hextall. Probably since early in Homer's tenure. (The only game in recent memory that felt like that was Hart's debut against Nashville).

 

Honestly, I said it earlier in the thread, but damn, that whole game - the 2nd period in particular - felt like a playoff game. 

 

The PP had puck movement I haven't seen from the Flyers in a LONG time. Both PP units, actually.

 

The goalie was en fuego. 

 

The team dominated every aspect of the game. 

 

Brel,

 

Absolutely agree with everything you said ....... I watched it via my DVR but yeah there was something there I haven't felt like in quite some time.  God I even say it, but it felt like there was some actual jump in their skates ...despite not playing for a couple of days ...... I wanna see this team play better teams to see how they do, but more importantly I want them to bury the weaker teams ....not play down to them.