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Game 5: Flyers at Oilers; 10/16/19 @ 9:30 ET


Howie58

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7 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I think everyone needs to step back from the ledge right now

 

I'm from Philly (ok, I'm not really, but let's go with it).

 

I, AND I ALONE, WILL DECIDE WHEN I LEAP TO MY DEATH!

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I've said it before that my main concern if I look 5 years into the future is that we have zero players in the system right that you can look at their *actual* performance to date and say, "yup, that guy could replace G's production in X years."

 

Konecny's fast start has me thinking he might. But we'd need to see a 60+ point season from *someone* before we start thinking it's possible.

 

Couturier and Ghost are the only guys that have done that lately. Simmonds reached 60 five years ago. And before that, there was Hartnell. 

 

Ironically, the years we lost to the Hawks, we had only two guys above 60 points. Richards (62) and Carter (61).

 

So maybe I just defeated my entire line of thinking.

 

Thanks for playing everyone! lol

 

 

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1 hour ago, brelic said:

For me personally, the frustration is in seeing NJ benefit from two #1s, but moreso Toronto deliberately bottoming out and turning it around rather quickly with top level elite talent to emerge as a Cup contender.

 

Hextall chose the path familiar to Flyers fans - the on-the-fly retool. *Something* had to be done following the drunken Homer years to return this franchise to sustainability. But Hextall's solution, we're seeing, has not yielded true elite talent nor has it kept the team competitive.

 

FWIW, that's exactly what they are trying to do now: "Add a 2C and some vet presence on D and *voila* competitive!"

 

The main difference is they have some nice talent from the Hextall drafts, whereas they had nothing in the cupboard after Holmgren. I won't go all Marc Antony on you again 😎

 

There aren't a whole lot of Cup winners since the lockout that didn't "bottom out" before they got good...

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40 minutes ago, brelic said:

Ironically, the years we lost to the Hawks, we had only two guys above 60 points. Richards (62) and Carter (61).

 

So maybe I just defeated my entire line of thinking.

 

STL just won the Cup with just two guys over 60 points (O'Reilly 77, Tarasenko 68) last year. The Bruins they beat had four (Marchand 100, Pastrnak 81, Bergeron 79, Krecji 73)

 

The Kings won two Cups with one (Kopitar 76 in '12 and 70 in '14).  The '11 Bruins had two (Krejci, Lucic 62 each).

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5 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

FWIW, that's exactly what they are trying to do now: "Add a 2C and some vet presence on D and *voila* competitive!"

 

The main difference is they have some nice talent from the Hextall drafts, whereas they had nothing in the cupboard after Holmgren. I won't go all Marc Antony on you again 😎

 

There aren't a whole lot of Cup winners since the lockout that didn't "bottom out" before they got good...

 

Absolutely - that's exactly what Fletch is doing, presumably after the Hextall "rebuild". I'm just saying that Hextall had an opportunity to "bottom out" but chose not to (or wasn't allowed to). At this point, the fanbase and Comcast would not accept a true bottoming out. That ship has sailed.

 

And again, don't get me wrong on the Hextall regime. He did what he thought was right. With the benefit of hindsight, it's fine for us to question whether it was the right approach.

 

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Just now, radoran said:

 

STL just won the Cup with just two guys over 60 points (O'Reilly 77, Tarasenko 68) last year. The Bruins they beat had four (Marchand 100, Pastrnak 81, Bergeron 79, Krecji 73)

 

The Kings won two Cups with one (Kopitar 76 in '12 and 70 in '14).  The '11 Bruins had two (Krejci, Lucic 62 each).

 

Right, so maybe the "elite" talent thing is overblown. 

 

I'd gladly put Couturier up against ROR any day, and between G and V, we have the Tarasenko factor.

 

They also had Binnington. We have Hart who could be that.

 

Maybe my frustration is more over enjoyment factor lol. I haven't enjoyed watching the Flyers in YEARS.

 

 

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Just now, brelic said:

 

Maybe my frustration is more over enjoyment factor lol. I haven't enjoyed watching the Flyers in YEARS

Ditto!

 

Its hard for passionate, loyal fans to accept a losing team when they are completely boring to watch

 

At least in the good ol days we could count on a an ass whooping being handed down if they we losing

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4 minutes ago, Poulin20 said:

 

In fairness, he is still with the team.  I see him around the arena quite a bit, he just doesn't work on the ice anymore during games.

 

Marshy is an awesome dude. When I worked as a musician for the Sens, my buddy and I would hang out at Marshy's (his bar in the Sens' whatever-the-heck-the-arena-is-called-now - I think it changed THREE times while I worked there). We'd down tequila shots with other fans and bar staff before, during, and after games. He was always around, he'd sit with us, tell us stories, and I just always felt like he genuinely enjoyed just hanging with us and the people around. He knew my by name and would always say hi, ask how I was doing when I'd run into him. Therien's sister was often with us and she was great, so were other ex-players, broadcast teams, training staff, etc. Just a good bunch of peeps, and Marshy was always at the center of it. 

 

One of the best gigs of my life.

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24 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Absolutely - that's exactly what Fletch is doing, presumably after the Hextall "rebuild". I'm just saying that Hextall had an opportunity to "bottom out" but chose not to (or wasn't allowed to). At this point, the fanbase and Comcast would not accept a true bottoming out. That ship has sailed.

 

And again, don't get me wrong on the Hextall regime. He did what he thought was right. With the benefit of hindsight, it's fine for us to question whether it was the right approach.

 

I think a lot of us (probably you included) wondered if it was the right approach at the time. And I'm not sure it was 100% "Hextall's" approach as much as it was the organization's approach (and still is).

 

I don't accept the cover stories for why they fired Hextall (he was a meanie!) - and think it had all to do with not seeing the ROI they anticipated on their arena renovations. If there were butts in seats buying overpriced drinks and merch no one would have cared how "mean" Hextall was.

 

I question whether Comcast really "wants to win" or "wants to be competitive." As we've seen, those two things can be radically different things. Again, if they're seeing positive revenue numbers, I really don't think they care as much if they "win a Cup." To be clear, there are people in the org that do. Whether Scott is 100% one of them is another question...

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2 hours ago, brelic said:

Good back and forth, guys. 

 

I think what all of this really speaks to is a frustrated fan base living through an unprecedented period of badness/mediocrity for this franchise. Fresh from expansion, the team made the playoffs in their first year, and 4 of the first 6 years. 

 

Then there were the 89-93 dark years with no playoffs.

 

So it's a strong case that this is the franchise's worst stretch of futility / insignificance despite having one of the top NHL point producers this decade.

 

For me personally, the frustration is in seeing NJ benefit from two #1s, but moreso Toronto deliberately bottoming out and turning it around rather quickly with top level elite talent to emerge as a Cup contender.

 

Hextall chose the path familiar to Flyers fans - the on-the-fly retool. *Something* had to be done following the drunken Homer years to return this franchise to sustainability. But Hextall's solution, we're seeing, has not yielded true elite talent nor has it kept the team competitive. They've burned through three coaches and a GM.

 

Whatever you might think of Patrick and his ceiling, there is no denying that he is one of the weakest top 2 picks of the decade. Ain't much we can do about that but hope he reaches MUCH MUCH higher than he has shown thus far.

 

We're 2-2-1. 

 

Let's see how they do the next 5.

 

 

 

 

This feels like the awful 89-93 dark years with no playoffs except that there is no Lindros on the horizon who is going to turn everything around.

 

As far as Hexy goes he told us that he wanted the new defensive talent and goalie to compliment the current offensive talent and he was waiting for the right time to "inject" the young guys into the equation.  The problem was that there never was a good time as the offense core was beginning a slow decline, plus Hak was just not the right guy for the job which ultimately cost Hexy his job.  I get what he was trying to do but unfortunately the timing was never going to work out.  His heart was in the right place with building from the ground up and managing the cap but it was never going to work here especially with the current Universal Studios regime in charge which has turned this entire organization into a clown show.

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24 minutes ago, brelic said:

I haven't enjoyed watching the Flyers in YEARS.

 

There's likely a "100%" emoji I'm missing, so just take that as read, eh?

 

I absolutely stopped watching last season. Paid attention a little. Came back to see Hart for a while. Came into this one looking for something different to be on the ice and, really, have yet to see much change.

 

It's early. Five games. But after the past seven years I'm not in the "The VeeGees will figure it out and lead us to the promised land!" camp.

 

They could do it and I'll be happy as all get out if they do.

 

But it's really disappointing when I'm watching other teams play and enjoying the game and the sport and then find myself wondering "why is my team not doing that?!?!?"

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43 minutes ago, brelic said:

between G and V, we have the Tarasenko factor.

 

Yano, I'll just jump in here with another something I've been saying for years.

 

Tarasenko is a goal scorer. G & V are point producers.

 

Flyers need some goal scoring talent. Could very well be that KNX, Frost, Farabee start to bring that to the table (and Couturier has that aspect to his game).

 

Giroux found a bit of that when he went back to wing, but still has all of one 30+ goal season, had 22 last year and his last season of 25+ prior to the 30+ season was 2014-15. Voracek has never scored 25+ and his last season of more than 20 was 22 in 14-15...

 

Tarasenko has been 30+ each year since 14-15.

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3 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I would have thought the years of back in forth on this topic  we've had would count for something.

 

I thought we had something special!  And you go and treat me this way?  I think I deserve better.   Doesn't all this time count for something?   We could'a had it all.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Whaddya mean? 👺

 

image.png

 

Exactly....as much as I have grown to semi-appreciate the orange the Phillie Phanatic he is part of what turns me off because I go to see the team, not to "be entertained".  I only entertainment I want while there is to watch the Flyers whoop everyone else's butts.  The Flyers mistakenly believe (in my case) that the product on the ice is just one part of  the experience for me, however in reality it is the only thing...all the other stuff is a nice to have but I certainly don't need it and would trade it all for the fun I used to have.  When the team was good, the dirty old spectrum with the incandescent light bulb scoreboard and the organ music was like a slice of heaven for me.    

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49 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Ditto!

 

Its hard for passionate, loyal fans to accept a losing team when they are completely boring to watch

 

At least in the good ol days we could count on a an ass whooping being handed down if they we losing

 

20 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

There's likely a "100%" emoji I'm missing, so just take that as read, eh?

 

I absolutely stopped watching last season. Paid attention a little. Came back to see Hart for a while. Came into this one looking for something different to be on the ice and, really, have yet to see much change.

 

It's early. Five games. But after the past seven years I'm not in the "The VeeGees will figure it out and lead us to the promised land!" camp.

 

They could do it and I'll be happy as all get out if they do.

 

But it's really disappointing when I'm watching other teams play and enjoying the game and the sport and then find myself wondering "why is my team not doing that?!?!?"

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one...I was beginning to worried I was just getting old and my tastes were changing.  These days I really enjoy watching / score keeping my 9 year old son play Squirt hockey and getting paid to be a scorekeeper for beer league games late at night. 

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21 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I thought we had something special!  And you go and treat me this way?  I think I deserve better.   Doesn't all this time count for something?   We could'a had it all.

 

 

where's that middle finger emoji ?

 

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2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

There's likely a "100%" emoji I'm missing, so just take that as read, eh?

 

I absolutely stopped watching last season. Paid attention a little. Came back to see Hart for a while. Came into this one looking for something different to be on the ice and, really, have yet to see much change.

 

It's early. Five games. But after the past seven years I'm not in the "The VeeGees will figure it out and lead us to the promised land!" camp.

 

They could do it and I'll be happy as all get out if they do.

 

But it's really disappointing when I'm watching other teams play and enjoying the game and the sport and then find myself wondering "why is my team not doing that?!?!?"


That’s pretty much how I feel these past few years. 
 

There might be a bit of grass is greener going on where, at least for me, I only see other teams when they play the Flyers, so I see a small sample of them vs a huge dose of Flyers. Obviously I have more context and sample size for the O&B. 
 

I know the Leafs fans are already antsy and there have been threads upon threads plus media musing on whether Babcock has worn out his welcome. There are many ex players who think he’s just a flat out dick. Peters’ post game comments on the Oilers/Flyers game were not rosy. NJ is in panic mode. The Isles were struggling before their three game win streak, the Panthers’ start is probably underwhelming to the fan base. The Stars are a mess. 
 

But it is early in the season, and a convincing Flyers 3 game winning streak would quickly change things. 

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Some interesting observations from an Oilers perspective...

https://www.beerleagueheroes.com/2019-20-edmonton-oilers-gm7-game-grades-wtf-was-that/

 

Somebody has to explain to me how the Edmonton Oilers can drop a six-spot on the Philadelphia Flyers at home but lose in almost every other significant statistical category.

 

Oh yeah… Bad goaltending and Connor McDavid. Are you kidding me?

 

52 shots to 22 is how the game ended. I get score effects had something to do with it, but that is ridiculous. The Oilers are THIS close to putting their foot through the rusted out floor of their car with how hard they’re pushing the gas pedal. The bottom’s bound to fall out here folks…

 

McDavid put up sub 40% possession numbers for the second game in a row. That’s a bit weird. A 26% night on the Corsis doesn’t usually end with five points added to your statline. I like what Brian Burke had to say, “The Flyers weren’t outplayed, they were out-Connor’d.”

 

 

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That seems to be a trend. A superstar plays the Flyers and beats the dogsnot out of them.

 

I still remember Lemiuex scoring 5 one afternoon, including a natural hattrick and a pick pocket of Hextall behind the net 

 

Brutal!

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