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lynxrattle

Goaltender conundrum

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According to this article, the stats show that the Wild has the league's worst goal tending after the Devils and the Kings:

 

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That delta stat is supposed to be measure only the goalie performance. Team performance should not be a factor. (Stats are stats, but eyesight gives the same impression).

Edited by ruxpin

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Not sure what the conundrum is. Dubnyk is not a good goaltender. Statistics bear it out. Time may have caught up to him. 
And if we want a shot at a true 1C, then leave him in there. Quit clamoring for Kahkonen or some other goalie. Because if the Wild manage to turn this around, it’s going to be another Wild Card Playoff spot, another first round exit, and another 15-20 draft pick which will just reinforce Leipold’s delusion that this team is a Cup contender and “we don’t need to rebuild “...

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I don't think there is one, because we know as long as Dubnyk's salary is what it is...he's going to be given all the time / starts he wants.  Until we see Stalock get starts against the higher quality teams in place of Dubnyk...there is no official conundrum.  

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Stalock sucks too. This town is always about the back up. Stalock is to Doobie as Joe Webb was to Ponder.

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I am still thinking that 5 to 10 games for a tryout both(Kaapo and Mat - both merit a try)in the Wild from the Iowa Wild will not change dramatically results for this team, but who knows - maybe the mentality of the team towards winning will be changed completely like that happened for the Blues. And still we do see the evident differences of that team when Binnington or Allen are in the net. I always was surprise about the stubbornness of our coach for a Kaapo tryout in the big club last year. Some teams had up to 8 goalies in a tryout in one season, but we had zero at least 3rd season in a row. IMO, any goalies should compete for the rights to occupy the main throne in the big club.
I am also surprise about a Darcy Kuemper results in 2 seasons in Arizona, who did not show any best results for years in a previous 2 teams- for the Wild and for Kings and now is blooming as well as their team, which does not have a lot of talent. And we are going to play against that team more often  in our Division starting from the 2021-2022 season.

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47 minutes ago, Alexandron said:

I am still thinking that 5 to 10 games for a tryout both(Kaapo and Mat - both merit a try)in the Wild from the Iowa Wild will not change dramatically results for this team, but who knows - maybe the mentality of the team towards winning will be changed completely like that happened for the Blues. And still we do see the evident differences of that team when Binnington or Allen are in the net. I always was surprise about the stubbornness of our coach for a Kaapo tryout in the big club last year. Some teams had up to 8 goalies in a tryout in one season, but we had zero at least 3rd season in a row. IMO, any goalies should compete for the rights to occupy the main throne in the big club.
I am also surprise about a Darcy Kuemper results in 2 seasons in Arizona, who did not show any best results for years in a previous 2 teams- for the Wild and for Kings and now is blooming as well as their team, which does not have a lot of talent. And we are going to play against that team more often  in our Division starting from the 2021-2022 season.

 

The team was intent on making the Playoffs last year. They were borderline in/out of the Playoff picture. So they are not going to put an AHL goalie between the pipes "just to see if he can handle it." They are going to go with the veteran net minder, a known quantity.

 

Rushing guys like Kahkonen and Robson is exactly what the Wild are known for. Before a guy proves anything in the AHL, they'd yo-yo guys back and "just to give them a taste". Leave them in Iowa to see how they perform over a whole season. Everyone was wetting their pants over Kahkonen's five shutouts early on last season and guess what? He lost his job to NHL journeyman Andrew "The Hamburglar" Hammond. Kahkonen wasn't ready.

 

Kuemper just matured later than everyone thought. It happens all the time. I'm betting the Flames wished they had hung onto Martin St. Louis too...

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4 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

The team was intent on making the Playoffs last year. They were borderline in/out of the Playoff picture. So they are not going to put an AHL goalie between the pipes "just to see if he can handle it." They are going to go with the veteran net minder, a known quantity.

 

Rushing guys like Kahkonen and Robson is exactly what the Wild are known for. Before a guy proves anything in the AHL, they'd yo-yo guys back and "just to give them a taste". Leave them in Iowa to see how they perform over a whole season. Everyone was wetting their pants over Kahkonen's five shutouts early on last season and guess what? He lost his job to NHL journeyman Andrew "The Hamburglar" Hammond. Kahkonen wasn't ready.

 

Kuemper just matured later than everyone thought. It happens all the time. I'm betting the Flames wished they had hung onto Martin St. Louis too...

 

Precisely @IllaZilla.  The Hamburglar supplanted Kahkonen after he went a little bit of a losing skid.  Hammond was pretty classy after his 1 and done season with the Wild.  The good thing was that Kahkonen got a decent amount of starts for his first year of playing in North America, but he didn't have to be workhorse.  

 

Now Kahkonen is the workhorse.  Let's see how this season turns out.  Its a good start to be sure, but let him show he can carry the load before we start giving him some kind of prolonged tryout with the Minnesota Wild.  

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On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 11:04 AM, IllaZilla said:

 

The team was intent on making the Playoffs last year. They were borderline in/out of the Playoff picture. So they are not going to put an AHL goalie between the pipes "just to see if he can handle it." They are going to go with the veteran net minder, a known quantity.

 

Rushing guys like Kahkonen and Robson is exactly what the Wild are known for. Before a guy proves anything in the AHL, they'd yo-yo guys back and "just to give them a taste". Leave them in Iowa to see how they perform over a whole season. Everyone was wetting their pants over Kahkonen's five shutouts early on last season and guess what? He lost his job to NHL journeyman Andrew "The Hamburglar" Hammond. Kahkonen wasn't ready.

 

Kuemper just matured later than everyone thought. It happens all the time. I'm betting the Flames wished they had hung onto Martin St. Louis too...

I wouldn't compare anybody to Kuemper--not sure maturity had anything to do with his success. Until having a career year last year, Kuemper's first 3 years in the league were among his best statistically, the Wild actually did a good job of working him in slowly.

There is absolutely no good reason not to try a player with the big club before sending him down if necessary. In Kahkonen's case, maybe he's just another inconsistent or streaky goalie. IMO, you can't necessarily say he wasn't ready.

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5 hours ago, sweetshot said:

I wouldn't compare anybody to Kuemper--not sure maturity had anything to do with his success. Until having a career year last year, Kuemper's first 3 years in the league were among his best statistically, the Wild actually did a good job of working him in slowly.

There is absolutely no good reason not to try a player with the big club before sending him down if necessary. In Kahkonen's case, maybe he's just another inconsistent or streaky goalie. IMO, you can't necessarily say he wasn't ready.

 

(yawn)

 

So just start him...just because?  

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Since franchise inception the Wild has been a low scoring team backed by solid goaltending. From Manny Fernandez to Duane Roloson, Josh Harding to Nik Backstrom and now Duane Dubnyk,  Wild netminders have given the squad a chance to win. As such, we have always been an organization built to win games 1-0, 2-1 and 3-2. Yet the league is listing toward race horse hockey, with teams that can easily put up 4 to 5 goals a game. If Dubnyk is struggling or injured, overworked, yes, give Robson a look, but if the team wants to win, you go with a healthy Dubnyk as your money stopper.

Edited by Icechipper
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That's a good point about the league changing and that change having an effect on the goalies. More goals in the league, less chances for the goalie to steal games. Less chances of a gamebreaker goalie appearing and saving us from the misery.

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And I mention Robson because he's been through some NCAA collegiate battles (Gophers play at home on Olympic rink). Successful goalies out of the U.S. college pipeline include Dryden, Casey, Balfour and Elliot, to name a few.....

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7 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

This thread seems to be getting out of hands...

As long as it doesn't go to politics or immigration...

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Conundrum.  They can't play the send down for "conditioning" card with Stalock. I do wonder if Dubnyk might be struggling with a nagging injury (groin?). If we lose two more out West, especially if we allow 4-plus per game, I predict we will see a change. Spitballin' here but are there any NHL-veteran tenders we might target?

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1 hour ago, Icechipper said:

Conundrum.  They can't play the send down for "conditioning" card with Stalock. I do wonder if Dubnyk might be struggling with a nagging injury (groin?). If we lose two more out West, especially if we allow 4-plus per game, I predict we will see a change. Spitballin' here but are there any NHL-veteran tenders we might target?

I’m kind of wondering that same thing about Parise myself (nagging injury). Anyways, I don’t think they go after another veteran. They won’t carry 3 goalies. We might see a heavier rotation though. No more 65+ starts for Dubnyk. And who knows. Dubnyk might be lights out against Arizona...

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Dubnyk was much better against San Jose in relief. 
The juicy rebounds in front were gone. 

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5 hours ago, Tomdog said:

Dubnyk was much better against San Jose in relief. 
The juicy rebounds in front were gone. 

Maybe that's the key. Dubs wasn't expecting to play.

Boudreau shouldn't let on who starts each game until they take the ice for the anthem. 😁

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On 11/9/2019 at 2:27 AM, Tomdog said:

Dubnyk was much better against San Jose in relief. 
The juicy rebounds in front were gone. 

The Sharks took the foot off the gas.

 

Dubnyk Sv% .887, 52nd in the league.

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5 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

...and Stalock 38th. Though I'm not sure if conundrum is the right word to describe this... quagmire any better?


Dumpster fire...

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IMO, it's a time to try at least Mat Robson as a goalie for few games in the big club. I like him too. In general, the team is making not a bad road trip - 2 wins out 3 games; by placing 13 goals in 3 games. Staal, Fiala and Zucker gradually improving their stats also.

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    • 2
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      Not sure what the conundrum is. Dubnyk is not a good goaltender. Statistics bear it out. Time may have caught up to him.  And if we want a shot at a true 1C, then leave him in there. Quit clamoring for Kahkonen or some other goalie. Because if the Wild manage to turn this around, it’s going to be another Wild Card Playoff spot, another first round exit, and another 15-20 draft pick which will just reinforce Leipold’s delusion that this team is a Cup contender and “we don’t need to rebuild “...
    • 2
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      The team was intent on making the Playoffs last year. They were borderline in/out of the Playoff picture. So they are not going to put an AHL goalie between the pipes "just to see if he can handle it." They are going to go with the veteran net minder, a known quantity.   Rushing guys like Kahkonen and Robson is exactly what the Wild are known for. Before a guy proves anything in the AHL, they'd yo-yo guys back and "just to give them a taste". Leave them in Iowa to see how they perform
    • 1
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      Stalock sucks too. This town is always about the back up. Stalock is to Doobie as Joe Webb was to Ponder.
    • 1
      Post
      Since franchise inception the Wild has been a low scoring team backed by solid goaltending. From Manny Fernandez to Duane Roloson, Josh Harding to Nik Backstrom and now Duane Dubnyk,  Wild netminders have given the squad a chance to win. As such, we have always been an organization built to win games 1-0, 2-1 and 3-2. Yet the league is listing toward race horse hockey, with teams that can easily put up 4 to 5 goals a game. If Dubnyk is struggling or injured, overworked, yes, give Robson a look,
    • 1
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      Dubnyk was much better against San Jose in relief.  The juicy rebounds in front were gone. 

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