Locker room problems

[CreaseAndAssist]

5 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

 

And that's part of a problem.  All good goalies are snatched at this point in the season, of course.  There are slim pickings. What concerns me is not even his personal stats; they are crap obviously.  What worries me even more is that he will lose his starts to Alex Stalock.  I can see a 50/50 split at best and Stalock actually taking over as a starting goalie at worst. In our league if you don't have 3 goalie starts total, you forfeit all goalie scoring categories.   And in that case, I might just pick up someone like Jonathan Quick, whose stats are crappy, but at least he is starting enough.  

 

 

Hard to say if he loses his starter status.  I would say its probably unlikely because this team hasn't really just let Stalock run with things for a week or two.  It gave him a few extra starts and then one stumble and he's back to being a backup.  Dubnyk certainly has a much longer leash than Stalock does on this team.  And I don't see the organization wanting to call up Kahkonen yet either.  

[Hockey-78]

10 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

I don't really question Russo's integrity per se.  But did you ever hear him talk about how he tried to talk to Fenton about being a conduit to the fans.  I thought that was crossing some journalistic lines by even offering that.  IMO, you have to stay separate.  And Fenton made it easy for him to separate and find other people for information; much to Fenton's annoyance.  Perhaps its just trying to cultivate a relationship than asking to be some kind of propaganda mouthpiece is how I mostly read it now.    

To me Russo's been that mouthpiece for the organization. Never really questioning anything relevant, more or less echoing the things convenient to the office. But I have never really paid a keen eye for him.

[lynxrattle]

It would feel easier for Guerin just to play along and pretend everything in the locker room is perfect. As C&A said, Guerin will reveal his true cards by his actions. I suspect he's already bought the Country Club membership card, but of course hope for him to just be silent in order to ease any potential trades.

[JR Ewing]

@CreaseAndAssist @Hockey-78 @lynxrattle

 

re: locker room issues: what Guerin knows to be the case and what he says in public about them are almost surely two completely different things. If there are problems (and I've never seen a team where the Wild are in the standings that didn't have them) he can't exactly come out and say "Oh yeah, it's even worse than I heard, and here are the names of the worst guys!"

 

Bad GMs just blurt out their intentions, and smart ones require having their words parsed. It's my suspicion that Guerin fits into the smart group,  so we're left looking at the spaces between the statements, imo.

 

[CreaseAndAssist]

19 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

@CreaseAndAssist @Hockey-78 @lynxrattle

 

re: locker room issues: what Guerin knows to be the case and what he says in public about them are almost surely two completely different things. If there are problems (and I've never seen a team where the Wild are in the standings that didn't have them) he can't exactly come out and say "Oh yeah, it's even worse than I heard, and here are the names of the worst guys!"

 

Bad GMs just blurt out their intentions, and smart ones require having their words parsed. It's my suspicion that Guerin fits into the smart group,  so we're left looking at the spaces between the statements, imo.

 

 

The locker room issues are something that has been around a lot longer than the last two seasons.  This has been a problem for the last 6-7 years.  Its only becoming a bigger thing / discussed topic now as the team struggles.  

 

Yet from a natural human level isn't it entirely plausible Guerin likely gravitates towards the players he may remember having played against in his career or feels as though he knows more?  The problem is in likely spending more time talking to those players he knows, they are probably the older players...are the ones that control the culture of this club.  If he's just spending time in the echo chamber, it might be tougher for him to realize the toxicity of it all.  If we are to take his comments as the genuine truth.  

Edited November 14, 2019 by CreaseAndAssist

[CreaseAndAssist]

16 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

To me Russo's been that mouthpiece for the organization. Never really questioning anything relevant, more or less echoing the things convenient to the office. But I have never really paid a keen eye for him.

 

I think this is fair to a point.  He's never been devastatingly critical of anyone other than Paul Fenton, whom he had an adversarial relationship with.  But Paul made his own bed with that one.  

[Hockey-78]

2 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

@CreaseAndAssist @Hockey-78 @lynxrattle

 

re: locker room issues: what Guerin knows to be the case and what he says in public about them are almost surely two completely different things. If there are problems (and I've never seen a team where the Wild are in the standings that didn't have them) he can't exactly come out and say "Oh yeah, it's even worse than I heard, and here are the names of the worst guys!"

 

Bad GMs just blurt out their intentions, and smart ones require having their words parsed. It's my suspicion that Guerin fits into the smart group,  so we're left looking at the spaces between the statements, imo.

 

I don't know JR... while I already said the same thing, I have this deja vu feeling I've heard some newly appointed GMs/HCs blurt out their observations. You know, those upright kind of guys.

 

Can't off the top of my head name any but I'm sure there have been some. After all, a GM would make himself look like a moron if he's complimenting a team that's trash... like the Wild is now.

 

So far Guerin's said the Wild might be looking for a center. At the current rate in which the Wild piles up losses... Guerin has to provide something more, tangible otherwise he comes across as a feeble yes-man. IMO.

[Hockey-78]

2 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

I think this is fair to a point.  He's never been devastatingly critical of anyone other than Paul Fenton, whom he had an adversarial relationship with.  But Paul made his own bed with that one.  

At this point I think I'm inclined to read with more enthusiasm articles about the Wild not written by Russo.

[EJ0226]

23 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

At this point I think I'm inclined to read with more enthusiasm articles about the Wild not written by Russo.

I have had Russo say something I said stupid a time or two on twitter to only watch the team fall apart even more. He's a in disguise Wild hired writer. Funny how he will crap on 4th line guys yet can't stop praising the country club. He probably wears knee pads when he is around the country club if you catch my drift.

[Hockey-78]

1 hour ago, EJ0226 said:

I have had Russo say something I said stupid a time or two on twitter to only watch the team fall apart even more. He's a in disguise Wild hired writer. Funny how he will crap on 4th line guys yet can't stop praising the country club. He probably wears knee pads when he is around the country club if you catch my drift.

Actually I don't, I've been straight all my life.

 

Yes-man profondo Indeed.

[JR Ewing]

On 11/14/2019 at 7:38 AM, Hockey-78 said:

I don't know JR... while I already said the same thing, I have this deja vu feeling I've heard some newly appointed GMs/HCs blurt out their observations. You know, those upright kind of guys.

 

Can't off the top of my head name any but I'm sure there have been some. After all, a GM would make himself look like a moron if he's complimenting a team that's trash... like the Wild is now.

 

Craig MacTavish did that. He was on the job officially for about 5 minutes, when he openly said that he didn't see Devan Dubnyk as a starting goaltender, announced that he wanted to move on from Ales Hemsky, said he was open to offers and then later expressed shock at the low quality of the offers that came in.

 

Bad GMs tell you what they're thinking. The good ones don't, and might even be so smart as to make you believe the opposite of what they think. So yeah, Bill Guerin (who is known to be intelligent) would probably be happy to publicly tell you that players on his team, whom he knows to be locker room problems, are great guys that help tie rookies' skate laces and teach their wives how to macrame.

 

On 11/14/2019 at 7:38 AM, Hockey-78 said:

So far Guerin's said the Wild might be looking for a center. At the current rate in which the Wild piles up losses... Guerin has to provide something more, tangible otherwise he comes across as a feeble yes-man. IMO.

 

I would guess that Guerin, in his 5 years working directly under Jim Rutherford, learned the value in speaking in a judicious manner. I don't know how he will work out for the Wild. At any rate, I hope it will be good, as he was always a player I respected, and his record in management has been good so far. He's barely had a chance to take off his jacket and put it on the back of the chair in his office, so I think it might be a touch early to call him a yes-man.

 

[CreaseAndAssist]

2 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Craig MacTavish did that. He was on the job officially for about 5 minutes, when he openly said that he didn't see Devan Dubnyk as a starting goaltender, announced that he wanted to move on from Ales Hemsky, said he was open to offers and then later expressed shock at the low quality of the offers that came in.

 

Bad GMs tell you what they're thinking. The good ones don't, and might even be so smart as to make you believe the opposite of what they think. So yeah, Bill Guerin (who is known to be intelligent) would probably be happy to publicly tell you that players on his team, whom he knows to be locker room problems, are great guys that help tie rookies' skate laces and teach their wives how to macrame.

 

 

I would guess that Guerin, in his 5 years working directly under Jim Rutherford, learned the value in speaking in a judicious manner. I don't know how he will work out for the Wild. At any rate, I hope it will be good, as he was always a player I respected, and his record in management has been good so far. He's barely had a chance to take off his jacket and put it on the back of the chair in his office, so I think it might be a touch early to call him a yes-man.

 

 

I think most of us are saving judgement until we see him do something.  It doesn't mean we're wanting him to do something just for the sake of doing so.  But when he does, we'll feel like we'll realize what we have.  So far, he's saying the kinds of things I guess you'd expect.  

 

In MacTavish's case, the good ol' boys club were running the show in Edmonton.  There still is a resistance among players to play in that city regardless of who else is there.  But winning will probably solve those issues and so far Dave Tippet is doing a great job.  

[JR Ewing]

1 minute ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

I think most of us are saving judgement until we see him do something.  It doesn't mean we're wanting him to do something just for the sake of doing so.  But when he does, we'll feel like we'll realize what we have.  So far, he's saying the kinds of things I guess you'd expect.  

 

In MacTavish's case, the good ol' boys club were running the show in Edmonton.  There still is a resistance among players to play in that city regardless of who else is there.  But winning will probably solve those issues and so far Dave Tippet is doing a great job.  

 

Winning is the great curing tonic. Players will put up with winter, with travel, and a lot of other things, but they sure as hell hate to lose all the time.

 

[CreaseAndAssist]

Sometimes...others are very comfortable.  Especially when they have large, long-term contracts.  

[lynxrattle]

"tie shoelaces and teach wives how to macrame", that's well put

[Icechipper]

Those who know Dave Tippett know that his team's lockerroom is all eyes at attention when he enters the room. There is a time to play (tape balls, boom boxes and pranks) and a time to get ready to play, and you had better recognize the difference if you want to play tonight. The GM might determine if you are in the lineup, but Tippett gets to decide if you see the ice.

[IllaZilla]

On 11/20/2019 at 6:43 PM, Icechipper said:

Those who know Dave Tippett know that his team's lockerroom is all eyes at attention when he enters the room. There is a time to play (tape balls, boom boxes and pranks) and a time to get ready to play, and you had better recognize the difference if you want to play tonight. The GM might determine if you are in the lineup, but Tippett gets to decide if you see the ice.

 

But how many Oilers have a Bat Phone directly to the owner? The biggest problem with the Wild is that the owner is a fanboy and is buds with Parise and Suter. 

Unless Guerin told him "The only way I'm taking this job is if you stay in your lane and let me do my job of building the team as I see fit..."

[4Check]

On 11/22/2019 at 7:28 AM, IllaZilla said:

 

But how many Oilers have a Bat Phone directly to the owner? The biggest problem with the Wild is that the owner is a fanboy and is buds with Parise and Suter. 

Unless Guerin told him "The only way I'm taking this job is if you stay in your lane and let me do my job of building the team as I see fit..."

We can only hope!

[EJ0226]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 7:23 PM, JR Ewing said:

 

Winning is the great curing tonic. Players will put up with winter, with travel, and a lot of other things, but they sure as hell hate to lose all the time.

 

Except Suter. He loves losing as it means less games to dress up in towards the end of the season. Winning for sure can cure most teams but the Wild aren't most teams. There is for some issues going on behind the scenes. Anytime we see a young and upcoming guy start to catch fire they either get sent down to the AHL, get their TOI cut down or anchored to a struggling vet line where they lose fire and then lose TOI and maybe get sent to the AHL. We have seen this since 11 and 20 got here.

It all points back to Leipold. Dude has zero hockey knowledge but continues to insert himself in decisions that GMs and coaches should be making. Then he fanboys out with Parise and Suter, has dinners with them and basically lets them do what they want. We know they have influence. The Adam Oates ordeal shows this. They got nothing for a punishment. If it was any other player there would have been fines and if they are 3rd or 4th liner guys they probably would have been cut.

[CreaseAndAssist]

6 hours ago, EJ0226 said:

Except Suter. He loves losing as it means less games to dress up in towards the end of the season. Winning for sure can cure most teams but the Wild aren't most teams. There is for some issues going on behind the scenes. Anytime we see a young and upcoming guy start to catch fire they either get sent down to the AHL, get their TOI cut down or anchored to a struggling vet line where they lose fire and then lose TOI and maybe get sent to the AHL. We have seen this since 11 and 20 got here.

It all points back to Leipold. Dude has zero hockey knowledge but continues to insert himself in decisions that GMs and coaches should be making. Then he fanboys out with Parise and Suter, has dinners with them and basically lets them do what they want. We know they have influence. The Adam Oates ordeal shows this. They got nothing for a punishment. If it was any other player there would have been fines and if they are 3rd or 4th liner guys they probably would have been cut.

 

Well right now, the team is playing team-hockey perhaps as well as I've seen it SINCE the Jacques Lemaire-era.  The last 12-games, they seem unselfish and are pulling in the same direction.  Does that mean they're all good friends and hanging out together, maybe not...but we're seeing a lot more resilience and positive emotion from this team than we've seen in a really long time.  

[Icechipper]

At least we don't have a bench bully. Hard to imagine Loose Bruce kicking his boys or questioning their manhood. Lemaire either for that matter.

[4Check]

10 hours ago, EJ0226 said:

Except Suter. He loves losing as it means less games to dress up in towards the end of the season. Winning for sure can cure most teams but the Wild aren't most teams. There is for some issues going on behind the scenes. Anytime we see a young and upcoming guy start to catch fire they either get sent down to the AHL, get their TOI cut down or anchored to a struggling vet line where they lose fire and then lose TOI and maybe get sent to the AHL. We have seen this since 11 and 20 got here.

It all points back to Leipold. Dude has zero hockey knowledge but continues to insert himself in decisions that GMs and coaches should be making. Then he fanboys out with Parise and Suter, has dinners with them and basically lets them do what they want. We know they have influence. The Adam Oates ordeal shows this. They got nothing for a punishment. If it was any other player there would have been fines and if they are 3rd or 4th liner guys they probably would have been cut.

Please provide your source on "Suter loves to lose",    

[lynxrattle]

Here's a link to an article I thought collects nicely some major points on why the team has been doing better after the dismal start to the season:

 

http://m.startribune.com/how-did-the-wild-pull-itself-back-from-the-brink-and-into-playoff-contention/565800322/

[Hockey-78]

15 hours ago, 4Check said:

Please provide your source on "Suter loves to lose",    

I don't know if he "loves" it but he obviously doesn't mind it either since you see him saving himself in every game. Leaving everything on the ice - when was the last time we saw Suter in that state?

 

If a player "loves" to win, say like the SC, he sure would've asked to be traded a long time ago.

[EmptyShelf]

On 12/4/2019 at 6:54 PM, 4Check said:

Please provide your source on "Suter loves to lose",    

He sure doesn't 'lay it all out there for a win' - he coasts; nor does he demand a competent roster with more 'Alpha' players that may infringe upon his monopoly upon Team Direction, or that he is taken off in OT (wherein he fails miserably).  He only cares about his pay, his league-leading TOI, his junk PP second assists, and his control over his shifts,, the team, and CL (with 11 and 9).  Sorry, that is how I see it....whether anyone can quantify that he 'loves to lose' or not, this guy has been a multi-year cancer.  On what team could a guy and his pal hire their own coach and bring him to a club scheduled practice unannounced?!?  This is CLEARLY insubordinate behavior, and a complete affront to the hired coaching staff - and was less about winning and more about showcasing himself and Parise to remain key cogs on the PP (and it DIDN'T WORK in terms of improving the PP, but they remained on it for years with lukewarm success).