Matt Dumba - Trade Him?

[lynxrattle]

57 minutes ago, Hockey-78 said:

Everyone argumenting well but I have a sneaky suspicion one of us will be disappointed in the end...

That's our fate as fans in this life. Perhaps one day the Wild will win the Cup, and maybe then we will all have a field day!

[4Check]

My circular thinking starts with, yes I would trade Dumba for a young number one center. But, IMO no one is going to trade a young number one center straight up for Dumba.   So, it ends up a case, for me of illogical wishful thinking.

 

 

[Hockey-78]

35 minutes ago, 4Check said:

My circular thinking starts with, yes I would trade Dumba for a young number one center. But, IMO no one is going to trade a young number one center straight up for Dumba.   So, it ends up a case, for me of illogical wishful thinking.

 

 

Did someone specifically suggest straight up? Look at Hall's recent trade, Gretzky back in his day, Lindros... everything is possible although cap issues do put some limitations.

 

But Dumba's contract isn't out of this world. And this really isn't the scenario of Wild's interest where you have three well paid D-men; everyone in their own way not meeting the expectations, Dumba obviously sucks, and the Wild still most evidently lacks a center with wheels.

 

I really think Wild needs more that center than Dumba. Would that be the "tweak" the ownership has babbled for a couple of seasons now?

[4Check]

No question, if a #1 center is critical (and I believe it is) the Wild could load up a too good to pass up package. My only point, was that Dumba, IMO straight up would not fetch a young #1 C.   Maybe a potential #1 like Glass. But basically, I'm not too sure that teams around the league see Dumba as a top pairing D.  

 

 

 

 

[Hockey-78]

2 hours ago, 4Check said:

No question, if a #1 center is critical (and I believe it is) the Wild could load up a too good to pass up package. My only point, was that Dumba, IMO straight up would not fetch a young #1 C.   Maybe a potential #1 like Glass. But basically, I'm not too sure that teams around the league see Dumba as a top pairing D.  

 

 

 

 

That's the second time you said "young". Who is young?

 

To get a young #1 center, I think it can only happen by drafting one. But ifvia trade, it certainly can't be any washed-up either. Maybe someone in the middle. Type of Kerfoot, Galchenyuk maybe?

[Alexandron]

Ilya Kovalchuk is being released by LA. He played well enough with Parise in NJ and had together a very nice chemistry then. NJ team was a pretty good Stanley Cup contender then too.  Maybe he could be a nice fit just for a year in the Wild uniform together with Parise? Hope, the youngsters will learn something good out of that duo also, because veterans experience still is very valuable for them. And probably ,  adaptation to the NHL for the Kaprizov will be easier because he played with Kovalchuk at many world championships , including Olympics.
Regarding Dumba, he always has periods of up and downs. Maybe he is still suffering from his previous injury and gives such an unstable play at this moment.

[4Check]

1 hour ago, Hockey-78 said:

That's the second time you said "young". Who is young?

 

To get a young #1 center, I think it can only happen by drafting one. But ifvia trade, it certainly can't be any washed-up either. Maybe someone in the middle. Type of Kerfoot, Galchenyuk maybe?

Galchenyuk is failing with his third team.   While o k at times at forward, deemed horrible at center in both Montreal and Arizona.  Kerfoot IMO, is a third line forward.   

Just for the fun of it....I'll give you some IMO, young 2C's who MAY be or who were previously available (based on news reports in the past year)  

Nylander, Trochek, Dvorak, D.Strome, Schmaltz, Kadri, Drouin.    Of those 7 quickly from off the top of my head, I would assume Kadri is the one that would least likely currently be available.

[ClusterChuck]

On 12/16/2019 at 2:34 PM, CreaseAndAssist said:

Dumba deserved his demotion to the 3rd pairing.  He's been crap at both ends of the ice.  You could almost accept reckless play in his own zone if he was scoring.  But he hasn't notched a point since November.  Soucy is just one point behind him and has more goals...to say nothing of the fact he's playing far better at either end of the ice these days.  

 

Is Dumba hurt, or did he really lose something in last year's injury?  

 

I was about to use the quote from a while back where you stated we didn't have anybody close to Dumba's scoring ability until I saw this.

Soucy has proven with his consistency that he's ready to be here. (Unlike Kahkonen, Who's played well but not quite ready for the full time back up role.)

It seems like only lately has Dumba be even taking the full slapper, Last year it was all about setting him up and Boom.

There may be some lingering issues with the injury but I'd say it's more 70-30 mental to physical.

 

When Spurgeon is available, What then? Send Soucy back to the farm and hope Dumba improves?

Will the Wild stick with the hopes of Dumba being last year's player and possibly trade Spurgeon? 

No thanks, I'd rather have Spurgeon and Soucy here and that also gives more pairing options for the D.

 

Dumba's last partial season reminds me of Justin Morneau of the Twins.

JM was having a killer season (just like Dumba) until he took the knee to the head.

He wasn't the same after that.

2 different injuries but the results are very similar.

 

 

[IllaZilla]

2 hours ago, ClusterChuck said:

I was about to use the quote from a while back where you stated we didn't have anybody close to Dumba's scoring ability until I saw this.

Soucy has proven with his consistency that he's ready to be here. (Unlike Kahkonen, Who's played well but not quite ready for the full time back up role.)

It seems like only lately has Dumba be even taking the full slapper, Last year it was all about setting him up and Boom.

There may be some lingering issues with the injury but I'd say it's more 70-30 mental to physical.

 

When Spurgeon is available, What then? Send Soucy back to the farm and hope Dumba improves?

Will the Wild stick with the hopes of Dumba being last year's player and possibly trade Spurgeon? 

No thanks, I'd rather have Spurgeon and Soucy here and that also gives more pairing options for the D.

 

Dumba's last partial season reminds me of Justin Morneau of the Twins.

JM was having a killer season (just like Dumba) until he took the knee to the head.

He wasn't the same after that.

2 different injuries but the results are very similar.

 

 

 

Teams have figured out Dumba's slapper, so they close on him a lot faster so he doesn't have time to unleash it. Or they blanket him and force Suter to flip his limp wrist shot at the net or pass to someone else. Dumba's going to have to figure out how to be more mobile or come up with a different shot that forces teams to back off of him and then maybe he'll be able to go back to the slapper...

 

Menell is probably-Iowa bound when Sprugeon comes back. Soucy has done enough to warrant a roster spot. But if necessary, the Wild could send him to Iowa without waivers as well. I'd rather see Soucy play regularly in Iowa rather than tend the popcorn machine in St. Paul...

 

They can't trade Spurgeon. He has a full NMC. So he's not going anywhere. And even if he waived his NMC, not many teams can absorb his $7.8M cap hit...

 

They could waive Seeler. But then who sits in the box? Dumba? Rotate guys around to give them more days off so they stay healthier?

 

Dumba's problem is in his head. He's facing the pressure of a fat new contract and also that teams have figured him out. 

[Hockey-78]

19 hours ago, 4Check said:

Galchenyuk is failing with his third team.   While o k at times at forward, deemed horrible at center in both Montreal and Arizona.  Kerfoot IMO, is a third line forward.   

Just for the fun of it....I'll give you some IMO, young 2C's who MAY be or who were previously available (based on news reports in the past year)  

Nylander, Trochek, Dvorak, D.Strome, Schmaltz, Kadri, Drouin.    Of those 7 quickly from off the top of my head, I would assume Kadri is the one that would least likely currently be available.

I threw those two names of the top of my head just to illustrate a middle-of-the-road acquisition. Couple of names you presented are intriguing. Kadri might be available but I don't think he'll ever be a #1 center in any team. With Dumba you won't get a superstar center unless you really, really include some top picks.

 

I'd assume most of the teams have drafted, not acquired via trade, their current #1 center. And so did the Wild... 16 years ago. And he turned out to be a poor man's #1 center.

[Hockey-78]

40 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

 

Teams have figured out Dumba's slapper, so they close on him a lot faster so he doesn't have time to unleash it. Or they blanket him and force Suter to flip his limp wrist shot at the net or pass to someone else. Dumba's going to have to figure out how to be more mobile or come up with a different shot that forces teams to back off of him and then maybe he'll be able to go back to the slapper...

 

Menell is probably-Iowa bound when Sprugeon comes back. Soucy has done enough to warrant a roster spot. But if necessary, the Wild could send him to Iowa without waivers as well. I'd rather see Soucy play regularly in Iowa rather than tend the popcorn machine in St. Paul...

 

They can't trade Spurgeon. He has a full NMC. So he's not going anywhere. And even if he waived his NMC, not many teams can absorb his $7.8M cap hit...

 

They could waive Seeler. But then who sits in the box? Dumba? Rotate guys around to give them more days off so they stay healthier?

 

Dumba's problem is in his head. He's facing the pressure of a fat new contract and also that teams have figured him out. 

No matter how you guys slice it, at the moment Dumba is the odd man out. If we forget the offensive tools for a moment, Dumba's D has been atrocious compared to the others. Against Vegas he, again, was a major factor in two of their goals. They should move him to the 4th line.

 

Wouldn't it be just laughable if Soucy ends up in Iowa... overall he's been the best Wild D-man this season. Although Brodin has been very good too but Soucy has taken more steps forward. Hunt seems to have cooled down a bit.

[lynxrattle]

If IllaZilla is right about other teams paying extra attention to Dumba (and I think he might be right), then the slump is not all Dumba's fault. If he's covered, someone else should have more room for a nice scoring opportunity, but that is not happening. 

[Alexandron]

2 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

If IllaZilla is right about other teams paying extra attention to Dumba (and I think he might be right), then the slump is not all Dumba's fault. If he's covered, someone else should have more room for a nice scoring opportunity, but that is not happening. 

Agree regarding an interesting important IllaZilla conclusion, that maybe the opposite teams having a more close attention to Dumba shots now, and I think not only his shots, but also the Hunt's shots too. Because I have seen Hunt's production also started to diminishing. It seems most of the opposite teams are ready for Dumba and Hunt's slap shots. I am still waiting for gradual increasing more production out of our youngsters. Fiala, Donato, Soucy stepped up, but we need more and more from others too as from offense as well from a defense. 

[ClusterChuck]

23 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

They could waive Seeler. But then who sits in the box? Dumba? Rotate guys around to give them more days off so they stay healthier?

 

Dumba's problem is in his head. He's facing the pressure of a fat new contract and also that teams have figured him out. 

I forgot about Menell. 

I've always had a second version of when a player gets that big contract. I see it as the "Made it" contact.

You're working hard to get to that moment and once there, Whether consciously or not, You become comfortable.

The goal to have you and family pretty much set financially has been met. 

 

I'm sure some will feel pressure to "live up to it" but how do you equate the value to your play?

I just hope thay play to their level that got the attention of the GM/owner to give them that new contract.

 

Then in cases like #11 + #20...Do they want to risk hurting themselves by going all out and not being able to fully enjoy their fortunes?

 

(If Spurgeon is fully healthy on return) I'd have Dumba watch from the press box for 2-3 games. Maybe that wakes him up.

Right now, All I see is him now is being back to prior seasons in his play and that 1 half season doesn't fill me with confidence of him.

I bought in to keeping him last year because of that. Not now...again.

 

I wouldn't want to lose him in the Seattle draft but on the other hand we better not leave Soucy or some upcoming d-man unprotected.

Imo, we lost too much because of Dumba with Vegas.

[IllaZilla]

9 minutes ago, ClusterChuck said:

I forgot about Menell. 

I've always had a second version of when a player gets that big contract. I see it as the "Made it" contact.

You're working hard to get to that moment and once there, Whether consciously or not, You become comfortable.

The goal to have you and family pretty much set financially has been met. 

 

I'm sure some will feel pressure to "live up to it" but how do you equate the value to your play?

I just hope thay play to their level that got the attention of the GM/owner to give them that new contract.

 

Then in cases like #11 + #20...Do they want to risk hurting themselves by going all out and not being able to fully enjoy their fortunes?

 

(If Spurgeon is fully healthy on return) I'd have Dumba watch from the press box for 2-3 games. Maybe that wakes him up.

Right now, All I see is him now is being back to prior seasons in his play and that 1 half season doesn't fill me with confidence of him.

I bought in to keeping him last year because of that. Not now...again.

 

I wouldn't want to lose him in the Seattle draft but on the other hand we better not leave Soucy or some upcoming d-man unprotected.

Imo, we lost too much because of Dumba with Vegas.

 

I've seen it enough in just about any sport where guys get that, as you put it "Made It" contract and the next season they fall flat on their faces. Usually the following year is a bounceback year, so we'll see.

 

Maybe a couple of games in the press box will get Dumba to focus more. Tampa Bay just benched Nikita Kucherov for dang near half a game, so anything is possible. Depends on what type of person Dumba is. Is he the type that needs the hairdryer treatment and a kick in the pants, or is he the kind that needs a heart-to-heart talk and a big hug. Different people respond to different motivational techniques. It's up to Boudreau to figure out what makes Dumba tick.

 

As far as Seattle goes, his price tag may be too much for them, especially if he continues on his current pace (7-16-30, his lowest totals since coming into the league). The Wild could expose him and protect a guy like Brodin (again) and Seattle may pass over Dumba because of his lack of production coupled with a major salary. But the Seattle draft isn't until 2021, and Dumba may turn it around by then. If Dumba returns to his 55 point season, do you still expose him?

[Hockey-78]

1 hour ago, ClusterChuck said:

(If Spurgeon is fully healthy on return) I'd have Dumba watch from the press box for 2-3 games. Maybe that wakes him up.

When was the last time BB benched someone making more than a million a year?

[IllaZilla]

2 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

When was the last time BB benched someone making more than a million a year?

This year. Victor Rask was in the press box for quite a few games at the start of the season and he comes in at $4M AAV...

[ClusterChuck]

3 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

When was the last time BB benched someone making more than a million a year?

True, But I don't care what the price tag is if they need a slap.

 

[Tomdog]

I think part of Dumba's problem is he is playing with Either.

For some reason he and Suter do not work well with each other.

I can't quantify it, it just seems to be something I noticed.

A day or two in the pressbox would probably help a lot of players.

[ClusterChuck]

5 hours ago, Tomdog said:

I think part of Dumba's problem is he is playing with Either.

For some reason he and Suter do not work well with each other.

I can't quantify it, it just seems to be something I noticed.

A day or two in the pressbox would probably help a lot of players.

Agreed...I wonder if it was Suter's request/demand that he be paired with Spurgeon tonight.

[Hockey-78]

17 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

This year. Victor Rask was in the press box for quite a few games at the start of the season and he comes in at $4M AAV...

Oh right. Not a well formulated question.

 

Benched anyone making over milion AND playing in the top two lines/D pairings?

[Tomdog]

19 hours ago, ClusterChuck said:

Agreed...I wonder if it was Suter's request/demand that he be paired with Spurgeon tonight.

Well I think suter/ spurgeon is the best pairing. Dumba needs someone who can cover for him if needed. 
I wonder if suter doesn’t tell dumba “ you’re on your own if you f up”

[IllaZilla]

10 hours ago, Tomdog said:

Well I think suter/ spurgeon is the best pairing. Dumba needs someone who can cover for him if needed. 
I wonder if suter doesn’t tell dumba “ you’re on your own if you f up”

I don’t think it has anything to do with what Suter wants. You absolutely don’t break up Brodin-Soucy. And you’re not going to play Spurgeon on the third pair. So therefore Dumba moves to the third pair. QED.

Maybe it’ll take some pressure off Dumba playing less minutes and he can find his game again. 

Edited December 21, 2019 by IllaZilla

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 12/17/2019 at 5:46 PM, 4Check said:

Galchenyuk is failing with his third team.   While o k at times at forward, deemed horrible at center in both Montreal and Arizona.  Kerfoot IMO, is a third line forward.   

Just for the fun of it....I'll give you some IMO, young 2C's who MAY be or who were previously available (based on news reports in the past year)  

Nylander, Trochek, Dvorak, D.Strome, Schmaltz, Kadri, Drouin.    Of those 7 quickly from off the top of my head, I would assume Kadri is the one that would least likely currently be available.

 

I agree with @4Check, Galchenyuk and Kerfoot would be a terrible return for Dumba.  Trocheck fits in well in Florida, they'd be really foolish to let him go.  I think the best move is to wait...see if Dumba can re-establish his game.  Especially on the power play where I think his impact is probably where you want to take advantage of his big shot and mobility.  So far, Dumba sounds like he's owning the fact he's not playing well which is a good sign.  He's not blaming the coach...yet.  

[CreaseAndAssist]

2 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

I don’t think it has anything to do with what Suter wants. You absolutely don’t break up Brodin-Soucy. And you’re not going to play Spurgeon on the third pair. So therefore Dumba moves to the third pair. QED.

Maybe it’ll take some pressure off Dumba playing less minutes and he can find his game again. 

 

According to Judd Zulgad...Suter has noticeably been less demanding in the Wild locker room.  He's playing more as a team-player than a guy just looking out for himself.  At least that was the rumor he heard...but consider the source.