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WordsOfWisdom

The Long Road Back

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A couple nice victories by Toronto against the Coyotes and the Avalanche, although the Avs really dominated the second half of that game. While many of the defensive miscues are still happening, the effort seems to be there and the group looks more energized after the coaching change. 

 

Some huge games coming up against Detroit and Buffalo (twice) that are must win games for Toronto if they want to get back in the playoff picture in the East, although I still think a big trade is coming (probably involving Nylander or Tavares) to fetch another defender.

 

Unfortunately, when you play .500 hockey and then go on a 6-game losing streak, you have no margin for error when it comes to getting back to where you were -- which was a precarious position at best. The upcoming games against Buffalo, not so much Detroit, need to be regulation wins for Toronto.

 

I guess it's a question of whether or not Leafs management feel this group is one coaching change (done) and maybe one big trade (coming soon?) away from being a legit Cup contender or whether this is the "step back" season that I predicted it would be, where the team needs to re-evaluate what they have, get back to the draft, and continue to develop new stars because maybe the "core group" just isn't quite the right core group yet. If you can't trade for the missing pieces, you need to develop them yourself.

Edited by WordsOfWisdom
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Apparently Babcock when Marner is a rookie asked him to make a list of role models and a list of lazy people on the team?

 

And then read it to the team? lol Both Babcock and marner confirmed it happened now.

marner being a rookie didn't want to get on the coaches bad side and then was mortified

 

 

Why would a coach try to foster a toxic environment?

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5 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

Apparently Babcock when Marner is a rookie asked him to make a list of role models and a list of lazy people on the team?

 

And then read it to the team? lol Both Babcock and marner confirmed it happened now.

marner being a rookie didn't want to get on the coaches bad side and then was mortified

 

 

Why would a coach try to foster a toxic environment?

That sounds like kindergarten stuff. Is Babc0ck a moron? SMH

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4 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

That sounds like kindergarten stuff. Is Babc0ck a moron? SMH

 

Apparently, this is part of Babcock's MO; his way of playing head games with the players and asserting control. Word is starting to come out from former players of his, and this time people can't say "Well, that's only Mike Commodore, and everybody knows he's a nut."

 

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34 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Apparently, this is part of Babcock's MO; his way of playing head games with the players and asserting control. Word is starting to come out from former players of his, and this time people can't say "Well, that's only Mike Commodore, and everybody knows he's a nut."

 

I don't know which is worse; Babc0ck's substandard mind games or the recent accusations against Peters for making racist slurs and using his power to control Aliu.

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1 hour ago, Hockey-78 said:

I don't know which is worse; Babc0ck's substandard mind games

 

Not only did Babcock force Marner to make this list of players, but he then went and told Marner's teammates about it, essentially "So, this is what the kid thinks of YOUR work ethic". Dirt bag move. Darren Dreger reached Babcock for comment, and he played it off by saying that it was a failed attempt to teach Marner about the value of hard work.

 

I could possibly buy that excuse if Babcock had kept the list a private matter between himself and Marner, but that's not what happened. Or, as Jeff O'Neill put it:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Hockey-78 said:

or the recent accusations against Peters for making racist slurs and using his power to control Aliu.

 

I sure hope that Peters didn't do that, but I can't think of any good reasons for Aliu to make up something like this.

 

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30 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Not only did Babcock force Marner to make this list of players, but he then went and told Marner's teammates about it, essentially "So, this is what the kid thinks of YOUR work ethic". Dirt bag move. Darren Dreger reached Babcock for comment, and he played it off by saying that it was a failed attempt to teach Marner about the value of hard work.

 

I could possibly buy that excuse if Babcock had kept the list a private matter between himself and Marner, but that's not what happened. Or, as Jeff O'Neill put it:

 

 

 

 

I sure hope that Peters didn't do that, but I can't think of any good reasons for Aliu to make up something like this.

 

I'm pretty sure that's not the lone "failed attempt" to teach the players something. Case Weinstein. More stuff will come up, players coming forward and reporters will dig up some more.

 

And Aliu; why indeed make such up? In the old times using the N word was probably an ordinary thing for coaches and players but times change... I'm fairly certain there were coaches like Babc0ck too who used to torment players with all kinds of means.

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2 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

And Aliu; why indeed make such up? In the old times using the N word was probably an ordinary thing for coaches and players but times change... I'm fairly certain there were coaches like Babc0ck too who used to torment players with all kinds of means.

 

From TSN:

 

"Speaking publicly for the first time since he made the allegation on Twitter, the Nigerian-born Aliu said Peters made the remarks in the AHL’s Rockford Ice Hogs dressing room before a morning skate during the 2009-10 season while the 20-year-old Aliu controlled the team’s music.

 

“He walked in before a morning pre-game skate and said ‘Hey Akim, I’m sick of you playing that n----- s---,’ ” Aliu told TSN, with Peters, who was then the Ice Hogs head coach, referring to Aliu’s selection of hip-hop music. “He said ‘I’m sick of hearing this n-----s f------ other n-----s in the ass stuff.’ 

 

“He then walked out like nothing ever happened. You could hear a pin drop in the room, everything went dead silent. I just sat down in my stall, didn’t say a word.”

 

Two of Aliu’s Rockford teammates who were in the room at the time of the alleged incident, Simon Pepin and Peter MacArthur, independently corroborated Aliu’s account to TSN on Tuesday.

 

"I think everyone should be held accountable for their actions or words spoken," Pepin said.

 

Aliu said Rockford team captain later confronted Peters about the incident in the coach’s office. Dowell could not immediately be reached for comment. When Peters then called Aliu into his office to talk about it, Aliu said Peters did not apologize. Instead, Peters again expressed his displeasure in Aliu’s choice of music for the dressing room, with Aliu saying Peters said: “You know, I’m just sick of this n----- s---. It’s every day. From now on, we need to play different music.”

 

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Confirmed by two other players in the room, so that's just awful to hear.

 

When I played baseball, I had a manager say something re: race to me, in front of all my teammates, that would get him thrown off the team in about a 1/4 second today, but didn't raise an eyebrow back then. Back then, everybody just laughed.

 

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@JR Ewing

 

I put a thread with the Aliu Peters situation in it. I am going to move your comment there if you do not mind. 

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Babcock had his share of detractors in Detroit but it comes down to this: 

 

They won.

 

 IDGAF what mind games a coach plays with the players, I dont care if he yells at his wife or kicks puppies when nobody is looking, win me a damn cup. The fact that he failed to do so in Toronto is the reason for the piling on now. If he had won a cup with the Leafs his picture would be on the money and every coach in the league would be asking their star rookies to rank the laziest players on the team and reading it aloud. 

 

 Just win baby, as Al davis used to say. Everything else is window dressing.

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It's one thing to get canned in Nashville, and it's a whole other to be fired in Toronto. Woe betide when that happens, because the bodies will be exhumed and shown for all to see.

 

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9 hours ago, yave1964 said:

Babcock had his share of detractors in Detroit but it comes down to this: 

 

They won.

 

 IDGAF what mind games a coach plays with the players, I dont care if he yells at his wife or kicks puppies when nobody is looking, win me a damn cup. The fact that he failed to do so in Toronto is the reason for the piling on now. If he had won a cup with the Leafs his picture would be on the money and every coach in the league would be asking their star rookies to rank the laziest players on the team and reading it aloud. 

 

 Just win baby, as Al davis used to say. Everything else is window dressing.

lol. Babcock inherited a Scotty Bowman trained Red wings squad with Veterans like Lidstrom, Yzerman/Fedorov trained Selke winners like  Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

 

his coaching duties in such circumstances is like asking a millionaire investor to make a 10% profit 1 year out of 10.

 

Dave Lewis(Who?) was coach between Bowman and Babcock and his record is 96-41-21, but he only ever had one other coaching gig in Boston with an abominable record.

 

 

Babcock with very good teams has been bounced from the playoffs in the first or second round or not made the playoffs every year for the last 10 years. Him winning the cup 10 years ago was a great accomplishment but it has no bearing on his success (Or more accurately, his lack of success)today.

 

otherwise we may as well concede that the leafs and Habs are the 2 greatest teams of all times because they have the most cups. But again, past success has nothing to do with today. Babcock coaching is like a high flying speedy player who you have been watching lose his wheels for the past 10 years and now he can;t keep up with the others anymore.

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8 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

It's one thing to get canned in Nashville, and it's a whole other to be fired in Toronto. Woe betide when that happens, because the bodies will be exhumed and shown for all to see.

 

The funny thing is, Vancouver usually isn;t as bad as Toronto, but Bring up mark Messier and you would get the same reaction Harold Ballard gets from old school leaf fans.

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On 11/25/2019 at 8:52 PM, J0e Th0rnton said:

Apparently Babcock when Marner is a rookie asked him to make a list of role models and a list of lazy people on the team?

 

And then read it to the team? lol Both Babcock and marner confirmed it happened now.

marner being a rookie didn't want to get on the coaches bad side and then was mortified

 

 

Why would a coach try to foster a toxic environment?

 

Wow. That's the first of heard of that. I'd say that's probably one of the worst coaching decisions in history.  

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18 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Apparently, this is part of Babcock's MO; his way of playing head games with the players and asserting control. Word is starting to come out from former players of his, and this time people can't say "Well, that's only Mike Commodore, and everybody knows he's a nut."

 

 

If it were up to me, Babcock would never get another coaching job in the NHL. He should be black listed from the league. 

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12 hours ago, yave1964 said:

Babcock had his share of detractors in Detroit but it comes down to this: 

 

They won.

 

 IDGAF what mind games a coach plays with the players, I dont care if he yells at his wife or kicks puppies when nobody is looking, win me a damn cup. The fact that he failed to do so in Toronto is the reason for the piling on now. If he had won a cup with the Leafs his picture would be on the money and every coach in the league would be asking their star rookies to rank the laziest players on the team and reading it aloud. 

 

 Just win baby, as Al davis used to say. Everything else is window dressing.

 

I guess it just goes to show my hunch that the players quit on him. Based on what I'm hearing, he probably created the most toxic locker room in the NHL. No wonder this team has been underachieving. I'm sure there will be additional fallout from Babcock's "mind games" that probably force other trades to happen as well.

 

 

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Normally this Leafs team would be dead and buried by now with their performance in October and November. Giving up 3 points to the Sabres recently while capturing only 2, another example of losing ground to a division rival...... but look at this:

 

standings.thumb.png.1fcda8fc8f0b7b5ae06905c1aae27e5d.png

 

Despite the Leafs being stuck in neutral, and on an 82 point pace, the Atlantic division is SO BAD that the Habs have lost 8 straight, the Red Wings are at 9 straight losses, and even the Lightning have lost 3 in a row now. Nobody wants this division other than the Bruins it seems, who are on cruise control to a division title.  Seeing the Leafs in third place again is baffling. If this were any other division, the Leafs would be gonzo. 

 

 

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      Apparently Babcock when Marner is a rookie asked him to make a list of role models and a list of lazy people on the team?   And then read it to the team? lol Both Babcock and marner confirmed it happened now. marner being a rookie didn't want to get on the coaches bad side and then was mortified     Why would a coach try to foster a toxic environment?
    • 2
      Post
      Apparently, this is part of Babcock's MO; his way of playing head games with the players and asserting control. Word is starting to come out from former players of his, and this time people can't say "Well, that's only Mike Commodore, and everybody knows he's a nut."  
    • 2
      Post
      Not only did Babcock force Marner to make this list of players, but he then went and told Marner's teammates about it, essentially "So, this is what the kid thinks of YOUR work ethic". Dirt bag move. Darren Dreger reached Babcock for comment, and he played it off by saying that it was a failed attempt to teach Marner about the value of hard work.   I could possibly buy that excuse if Babcock had kept the list a private matter between himself and Marner, but that's not what happened. Or
    • 2
      Post
      I'm pretty sure that's not the lone "failed attempt" to teach the players something. Case Weinstein. More stuff will come up, players coming forward and reporters will dig up some more.   And Aliu; why indeed make such up? In the old times using the N word was probably an ordinary thing for coaches and players but times change... I'm fairly certain there were coaches like Babc0ck too who used to torment players with all kinds of means.
    • 2
      Post
      From TSN:   "Speaking publicly for the first time since he made the allegation on Twitter, the Nigerian-born Aliu said Peters made the remarks in the AHL’s Rockford Ice Hogs dressing room before a morning skate during the 2009-10 season while the 20-year-old Aliu controlled the team’s music.   “He walked in before a morning pre-game skate and said ‘Hey Akim, I’m sick of you playing that n----- s---,’ ” Aliu told TSN, with Peters, who was then the Ice Hogs head coach, referrin
    • 1
      Post
      lol. Babcock inherited a Scotty Bowman trained Red wings squad with Veterans like Lidstrom, Yzerman/Fedorov trained Selke winners like  Datsyuk and Zetterberg.   his coaching duties in such circumstances is like asking a millionaire investor to make a 10% profit 1 year out of 10.   Dave Lewis(Who?) was coach between Bowman and Babcock and his record is 96-41-21, but he only ever had one other coaching gig in Boston with an abominable record.     Babcock with ve

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