Game 28: Leafs at Flyers; 12/3/19 @ 7 PM

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

This is a tough call:

 

https://winnersandwhiners.com/games/nhl/12-3-2019/toronto-maple-leafs-vs-philadelphia-flyers-prediction-6987/

 

The Leafs are 4-1 under Keefe and Andersson has a 2.47 GAA.  We have played well but our last 10 have been a mixed bag.  The O and B can't rest on laurels.  This will be a good test. 

[OccamsRazor]

The new Leafs should be a good test.

 

I hope they can keep the win streak up.

[intheslot]

ROJECTED STARTING LINEUPS (subject to change)

FLYERS

28 Claude Giroux - 48 Morgan Frost - 11 Travis Konecny
23 Oskar Lindblom - 14 Sean Couturier - 93 Jakub Voracek
21 Scott Laughton - 13 Kevin Hayes - 49 Joel Farabee
25 James van Riemsdyk - 12 Michael Raffl -18 Tyler Pitlick

9 Ivan Provorov - 15 Matt Niskanen
6 Travis Sanheim - 61 Justin Braun
8 Robert Hägg - 5 Phil Myers

79 Carter Hart
[37 Brian Elliott]

Power Play 1: Giroux, JVR, Frost, Konecny, Provorov
Power Play 2: Couturier, Lindblom, Voracek, Sanheim, Niskanen

Scratches: 53 Shayne Gostisbehere (healthy), 44 Chris Stewart (healthy), 55 Sam Morin (torn ACL)
LTIR: 19 Nolan Patrick (migraines)

MAPLE LEAFS
18 Andreas Johnsson -  34 Auston Matthews  -  88 William Nylander
65 Ilya Mikheyev - 91 John Tavares -  11 Zach Hyman
61 Nic Petan -  15 Alexander Kerfoot -  24 Kasperi Kapanen
Pierre Engvall  - 31 Frederik Gauthier - 41 Nicholas Shore

44 Morgan Rielly -  83 Cody Ceci
8 Jake Muzzin -  3 Justin Holl
23 Travis Dermott -  94 Tyson Barrie

31 Frederik Andersen
[30 Michael Hutchinson]

Power Play 1: Nylander, Matthews, Tavares, Barrie, RiellyPower Play 2: Johnsson, Petan, Kapanen, Muzzin, Spezza
Scratches: 19 Jason Spezza (healthy).Injured reserve: 16 Mitch Marner (ankle), 42 Trevor Moore (shoulder).

[CoachX]

I hate the Leafs

[Poulin20]

Just now, CoachX said:

I hate the Leafs

 

Need a Lexus?

[CoachX]

My wife does 

[WordsOfWisdom]

6 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I hate the Leafs

 

I'm sure they hate you too.    

 

[Poulin20]

4 minutes ago, CoachX said:

My wife does 

 

Well I know this guy from the Philly.com board....

[WordsOfWisdom]

18 hours ago, Howie58 said:

The Leafs are 4-1 under Keefe and Andersson has a 2.47 GAA. 

 

A much needed rebound because the team was under-performing with Babcock. Now they're playing more like what they are... which is a playoff bubble team that may/may not make the playoffs. If they do make the playoffs, it will no doubt be thanks to the incredibly weak Atlantic division, and I don't envision anyone from the Atlantic division (other than the Bruins) making any noise next spring.   

 

The Flyers and Leafs are equally matched I think. 

[Poulin20]

8 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I'm sure they hate you too.    

 

 

I miss the good old days of the waffles.

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

6 minutes ago, Poulin20 said:

 

I miss the good old days of the waffles.

 

 

I can remember when a Leafs vs Flyers game usually meant a bench clearing brawl, crazy amounts of hitting, etc...  I remember Domi spraying the fan who fell into the penalty box, etc...  Good times.   

 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by WordsOfWisdom

[CoachX]

13 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I'm sure they hate you too.    

 

My job is done here ! 

 

[Poulin20]

7 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I can remember when a Leafs vs Flyers game usually meant a bench clearing brawl, crazy amounts of hitting, etc...  I remember Domi spraying the fan who fell into the penalty box, etc...  Good times.   

 

Yeah sadly those bench clearing days are gone.  I lived for those going to Flyers games as a kid in the 1980s.

 

As for that fan..yeah I remember that series too (2001-2002 I think)!  What a buffoon he tried suing Domi over that incident too but didn't get anywhere with it (shocker).  I always remember that series because the Flyers (in Flyeresqe fashion) went out and got Beezer when he was way past his "use by" date and the Leafs took turns taking shots from bad angles that invariably snuck between his skate and the post.   

[flyer4ever]

57 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I'm sure they hate you too.    

 

words of wisdom from words of wisdom. TDHLF.

[King Knut]

19 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Greetings:

 

This is a tough call:

 

https://winnersandwhiners.com/games/nhl/12-3-2019/toronto-maple-leafs-vs-philadelphia-flyers-prediction-6987/

 

The Leafs are 4-1 under Keefe and Andersson has a 2.47 GAA.  We have played well but our last 10 have been a mixed bag.  The O and B can't rest on laurels.  This will be a good test. 

 

 

Very good test.  Keefe is the guy I wanted to coach the Flyers.  

 

I'm not disappointed with AV as a choice and haven't been since they hired him.  It's the safest option and I can't disagree with it thus far.

 

Keefe was the kind of guy they should have gotten instead of Hakstol... but he wasn't quite in the radar 6 years ago.

 

 

[King Knut]

50 minutes ago, Poulin20 said:

 

Yeah sadly those bench clearing days are gone.  I lived for those going to Flyers games as a kid in the 1980s.

 

As for that fan..yeah I remember that series too (2001-2002 I think)!  What a buffoon he tried suing Domi over that incident too but didn't get anywhere with it (shocker).  I always remember that series because the Flyers (in Flyeresqe fashion) went out and got Beezer when he was way past his "use by" date and the Leafs took turns taking shots from bad angles that invariably snuck between his skate and the post.   

 

I think you're thinking of '99.  Beezer was long gone by '01.

 

If I'm remembering correctly, the series you're thinking of featured Snider going absolutely off his rocker in front of the cameras after the loss.  he was livid at the way the series was handled.

 

Bench clearing brawls in the 80's are one thing, but I'm surprised to hear anyone say they miss those late 90's early '00's series with the leafs.

 

They were ugly as hell, unfun to watch, extraordinarily frustrating and they injured half the team, usually leading directly to losing the series or being horrible impaired for the next one.

 

For instance, I'm pretty sure the Flyers might have been able to beat the Lightning in '04 if they hadn't had such a physically brutal series against the leafs going into the ECF's.  

 

I think similarly of the '97 playoff series against the Rangers.  An utterly brutal and ugly series that ultimately sincerely damaged the Flyers chances going forward.  

 

It would be one thing if it was just old time Flyers hockey, but because of "the trap" (insert sarcastic air quotes) the games weren't just brutal, they were uglier than sin and ridiculously unenjoyable to watch.  

 

 

[CoachX]

Id much rather watch that then what is on the ice today

 

Shame when youtube videos are more fun than the live event

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

For instance, I'm pretty sure the Flyers might have been able to beat the Lightning in '04 if they hadn't had such a physically brutal series against the leafs going into the ECF's.  

 

Yeah if only Roenick could have checked a Leaf defenseman and broke his arm instead of Rico.

 

What might have been.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Id much rather watch that then what is on the ice today

 

Shame when youtube videos are more fun than the live event

 

I'm not a young fan by any means and I so whole heartedly have exactly the opposite point of view on actually watching and enjoying games.  

[RonJeremy]

51 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I'm not a young fan by any means and I so whole heartedly have exactly the opposite point of view on actually watching and enjoying games.  

Today the  players are more skilled and great skaters , but the games in the old days were far more exciting and the players hated each other. It was an electric atmosphere in the Spectrum.With all the improved skill i am not seeing the kind of finesse that i saw watching teams like the Canadiens of the 70s and Oilers of the 80s or the passion and relentless forechecking of teams like the Flyers or Bruins from the old days. You would think with the lack of hitting and and higher skill level we would have end to end action. Maybe going to an Olypic size ice would lead to more open and exciting hockey, but that will never happen.

[King Knut]

17 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Today the  players are more skilled and great skaters , but the games in the old days were far more exciting and the players hated each other. It was an electric atmosphere in the Spectrum.With all the improved skill i am not seeing the kind of finesse that i saw watching teams like the Canadiens of the 70s and Oilers of the 80s or the passion and relentless forechecking of teams like the Flyers or Bruins from the old days. You would think with the lack of hitting and and higher skill level we would have end to end action. Maybe going to an Olypic size ice would lead to more open and exciting hockey, but that will never happen.

 

well I've been a proponent of the European Ice size for a while now.  The loss of seating revenue was I'm told the major issue.  I still think it's the way to go.  

 

I'm not sure why you're not seeing the kind of finesse.   I guess defensemen are better skaters now and coaching tactics make it harder to exploit, but I feel like I see finesse galore and I also see players scoring from angles and with precision that the 80's guys who scored 80 goals could only dream of.  

 

The goalies are making tougher saves because of their lighter equipment and some coaching advances and the defenses are harder to get around, but players have sticks that can let them do what would previously have been impossible.  

 

I think coaches and their systems are just way smarter and elaborate now and they have better game footage and can watch it more easily in order to scout your butt inside and out.  It's hard to fool teams night in and night out.  Even mediocre and bad teams are coached well enough to be onto you if you're a talented player.  

 

I think Olympic sized Ice is the only thing likely to change the way the game is now.  But I don't have any issue with the lack of physicality.  You can still hit guys if you know how.  Just not if you're Radko Gudas and you're wearing orange and black.

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

4 hours ago, King Knut said:

Bench clearing brawls in the 80's are one thing, but I'm surprised to hear anyone say they miss those late 90's early '00's series with the leafs.

 

They were ugly as hell, unfun to watch, extraordinarily frustrating and they injured half the team, usually leading directly to losing the series or being horrible impaired for the next one.

 

For instance, I'm pretty sure the Flyers might have been able to beat the Lightning in '04 if they hadn't had such a physically brutal series against the leafs going into the ECF's.  

 

I think similarly of the '97 playoff series against the Rangers.  An utterly brutal and ugly series that ultimately sincerely damaged the Flyers chances going forward.  

 

It would be one thing if it was just old time Flyers hockey, but because of "the trap" (insert sarcastic air quotes) the games weren't just brutal, they were uglier than sin and ridiculously unenjoyable to watch.  

 

I don't miss the trap, but I do miss the hitting.  Don Cherry was right when he said that the league was going to legislate hitting out of the game. I thought he was nuts and just being a neanderthal about the league clamping down on fighting, but he was right: hitting is all but gone from the league now.  It's a completely different game than it was just 20 years ago.

 

The league will tell you the players are faster and more exciting, but they're basically "soccer" players now. It's a no-touch game. Anyone can skate fast if there are no repercussions to doing so. Nobody checking you and nobody hitting you. I'm surprised the league hasn't passed a rule that the defencemen must spread apart and allow forwards a clean breakaway to the net lol.   

 

When I remember those playoff games from the early 2000's, I remember a tough, physical game where you still had the skill, but you also had the big hits and the intensity. I just don't see that any more. The players today are soft. 

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

Today the  players are more skilled and great skaters , but the games in the old days were far more exciting and the players hated each other. It was an electric atmosphere in the Spectrum.With all the improved skill i am not seeing the kind of finesse that i saw watching teams like the Canadiens of the 70s and Oilers of the 80s or the passion and relentless forechecking of teams like the Flyers or Bruins from the old days. You would think with the lack of hitting and and higher skill level we would have end to end action. Maybe going to an Olypic size ice would lead to more open and exciting hockey, but that will never happen.

I agree with everything you wrote, in fact I wantt to claim this post as my own.

 

As I understand, the rule changes were designed to open the ice for the skill players, thus more goals, and more casual fans. Plus thw removal of hitting was a safety concern, and the removal of fighting makes it more family friendly

 

Well, goal scoring isnt up, reports I read have suggested a decline in attendance and the sport barely makes it in the top four. Some would argue soccer is bigger.

 

I think the NHL has dome a splendid job of surgically removing the balls from the sport

[Podein25]

12 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I agree with everything you wrote, in fact I wantt to claim this post as my own.

 

As I understand, the rule changes were designed to open the ice for the skill players, thus more goals, and more casual fans. Plus thw removal of hitting was a safety concern, and the removal of fighting makes it more family friendly

 

Well, goal scoring isnt up, reports I read have suggested a decline in attendance and the sport barely makes it in the top four. Some would argue soccer is bigger.

 

I think the NHL has dome a splendid job of surgically removing the balls from the sport

 

Lol

 

I think it is a bit more complicated than that, which is to say you may not have the cause and effect right.

 

Especially the decline in hitting. They didn't set out to "remove hitting" from the game, although the moves to deal with concussions (ban "head shots") is partly a factor. The heightened speed of the game has paradoxically made hitting, especially finishing hits and going out of your way to hit, risky, it gives up too much space, and the puck ends up in your net.  In short, it's mostly a symptom.

 

The game has become more like soccer. Instead of skating over and hitting someone, you fill the lane and take away passing or skating options. 

 

I could go on.

[CoachX]

Ok, lets say I agree with you. Or better yet, see your point....I still see a lack of agressive forecheck and nastiness around the crease or along the boards.

 

I do see some casual bumping among friends while forechecking, though. That's a good thing, right?

Edited December 3, 2019 by CoachX